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Lag getting worse by the day!


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Wow, let me get caught up. First, you imply that I'm lying: "..and naturally we'll just take your word that youre telling the truth of course." That alone would have been enough to earn you 'Creep' status, but you went on.

In the next post you'd apparently hunted my other posts in the Forums because you seemingly found the one I made in Porky's 'Where the hell' thread: "No wonder you get a good service youre in California right on top of Linden labs....Christ if you cant get a good service being on their doorstep no one can.....". Kinda stalky there but not surprising. Fits right in with the 'Creep' thing.

As for government mandated highspeed broadband in the UK, I read about it all the time. Here's a tiny example: http://www.basingstoke.gov.uk/browse/business/broadband/rural-broadband.htm. There is nothing like that on any large scale in the US. Frankly I'm okay with that—the less the government has to do with the Internet the better in my book—but it does mean a lot of Brits have much greater bandwidth than I have.

Even that wasn't enough. Having insinuated I was lying and then gving the forum a bit of a stalk to see what else you could learn you came up with this: "Something Lindens ought to look into at least. Not that youd be bothered your service is fine - screw everyone else eh ??". Not only was I lying to begin with, I'm callous and care not what happens to anyone else. Nice.

As for what you are: I promise I will remember to think of you as 'the English creep', rather than the Brit one.

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Maelstrom is Britiish. To be more precise, he is British/English. Not being British is not an option for him - i.e. he can't opt out of it - so he is British.

 

For the interest:

The fastest BB speed we have here in the UK at the moment is 120Mbps but that's only available to Virgin Media customers and most BB users aren't their customers. VM was a British company until a couple of days ago when an American company (Liberty Global) bought it.

I wouldn't say that BB is "government mandated" although it does appear that the government does provide grants for it.

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I've been is SL for 6 years, and for me, the crash rate has never been better.  When I do crash, it is usually clearly related to my internet connection. I log on from different locations quite a bit, so I pay close attention to the packet loss and ping times.  With a good connection, in my mainland home sim, I get >100 fps, and yes that drops to as little as 15 in a crowded sim, but it rarely crashes because of that.  

That is not to say that some sims are not extremely overloaded, there are individual sims that are always very laggy. For instance, you can only run so many scripted vendors in a shopping mall before the server runs out of steam.  Some places ignore that fact, load the sim to the breaking point, add a few temp rez devices to get around the prim limits, then moan about how slow the servers are. But there are a lot of well run sims, and its easy enough to avoid the artificial lag pits.  And sometimes, even a well run sim has an off day, but show me a computer anywhere that does not need to be rebooted every now and then.

Since the early 80's, I have gone through many different computers, I replace them every couple of years. They get laggier and laggier as microsoft upgrades the OS, and as I put more capable software on the machines. Laggier for general computing, that is, not SL in particular. My original DOS box would not be much good for streaming video, or Skyping my family.   I recently cleaned out my basement, and fired up my old XP machine to make sure the hard drive was properly scrubbed before scrapping.  What a pig!  It was so slow, I got really impatient doing simple web browsing.  I remember when it was new, and seemed so fast, especially running SL.  But computer technology has changed a lot, and so has the bar for what constitues a good computer.

 

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Great post Peggy.

Maelstrom has one semi-legitimate complaint. A glitch in the system caused him to use excessive bandwidth. And as I gather from his posts, it cost him real money.  But still, he was the one who chose to drive with his oil warning light unplugged.  None of us expect all the oil to suddenly run out of our engines.  But if I knowingly drive around in my car with my oil light disconnected and I burn up my engine, it's my responsibility, not the manufacturers.  The odds of a warning light going off in a car are pretty slim, but the day that they do, we are mighty glad we have them.

SL demands a lot of computational power all the way from Server to Client.  Could it be done more efficiently?  I have no doubts about it.  But it would require rebuilding it from the ground up which would be both extremely costly and time consuming and even a heavier burden on the users.  And even if it was rebuilt this way, would the amount of improvement gained be sufficient to justify it?

I have a lot of respect for people who come to the Forum and ask what they can do to improve their performance.  I have a lot of respect for people who can maturely discuss the issues.  People who make blanket statements like the OP did just make me shrug my shoulders.

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My crash rate is nearly non-existant now. Which is pretty cool for me, since there was a time it was much, much worse, lol. I had a pretty crappy machine at that time though. So the fault sat, mostly, with me and my crappy machine and just as crappy DSL service at the time. Now I have a different machine. Not a gaming machine or anything super fancy, but it serves my purpose. So much better than my old machine did. For a few years I couldn't see water correctly, let alone glow and anything else. That might sound like a wonderful thing to some people, but for me it wasn't. Then again for some time I didn't really know what I was missing either, lol. When I initially got a graphics card for my old machine and got my first glimpse at what linden water really looked like, it was like.. o.O Yeah, I was amazed.

I don't necessarily think lag has gotten so much worse for everyone or even most people, but I do believe the lag has shifted. By that I mean things that didn't once cause someone problems like crashes, slow rez times and stuff like that, are now causing problems. Where other things that many are having problems with, aren't causing the other folks issues. Does that make sense? It probably doesn't outside of my head. I'm not real sure how to explain that I guess. I know a couple of people with really good connections and really great machines who seem to have issues with mesh and lag. I actually thought I would have issues with it too, but for the most part I don't. Unless I get around multiple people with poorly made mesh-that can slow me down to a slow crawl through half frozen molasses. Those people having issues with mesh now, never had any of my old issues and never could understand why i'd complain about lag. Now they understand why that lag was such a pain in my butt. Their lag monsters are just different than mine were. I've helped other people tweak settings here and there to better manage  their lag problems, but I'm definitely no expert. I read other residents posts here and elsewhere too that are also really helpful.

There's a lot linden lab needs to do to fix the problems that exist. I'm certainly not the last person to say that. Sl has it's flaws no doubt and if they keep adding features or changes without fixing some of the existing problems, those flaws will only compound. Which might be what some are seeing now and why they are now having problems when before everything was smooth sailing. I'm not a fan girl by any definition but I have seen improvements over the years. So I have to give them credit there. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be fixing the problems or that I think the problems others have or will have are minor. I know what a pain it is to deal with lag at every turn. I dealt with it for a few years, so I have sympathy for people who try to optimize and still fight the lag.  But there really are a lot of people out there who COULD do more to optimize, but don't, or don't know how. Until ll actually fixes some of the existing problems, we do have to try to fix what we can ourselves-and at the same time, keep on them to get improvements.

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Maelstrom is Britiish. To be more precise, he is British/English. Not being British is not an option for him - i.e. he can't opt out of it - so he is British.

 

For the interest:

The fastest BB speed we have here in the UK at the moment is 120Mbps but that's only available to Virgin Media customers and most BB users aren't their customers. VM was a British company until a couple of days ago when an American company (Liberty Global) bought it.

I wouldn't say that BB is "government mandated" although it does appear that the government does provide grants for it.

 

Mandated was probably too strong a word, but certainly it is a topic of government concern at all levels in the UK: I've read articles in which MP's* talked about it. In a way it reminds me of the Rural Electrification program that (I think) FDR put in motion in my country 80 years ago. To the best of my knowledge there is no widely espoused government program to boost bandwidth in the US, although there have been plenty of attempts to remove what's called the 'Digital Divide', and all of those included Internet access. Just not really really good Internet access.

*The correct placement of the would have been after the M, since I was talking about Members in plural, not Parliaments. Was my usage correct or would it be written M'sP by, dare I say, a Brit?

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Keriwena wrote:

Great post, Peggy! Thanks so much for the info.

 

I think setting my speed to 1000 kbps has helped my lag.

 

Yes, Peggy's advice was something I'd found recently myself. I use Firestorm and the Phoenix page that advises people on settings suggests that you find out what your download bandwith actually is and then set your inworld bandwidth to about 3/4 of that. In my case 1500 works pretty good but again that might be because I do have a relatively close connection and pretty quick pings.

When I first asked someone about the bandwidth setting, years ago, I was told to max it out. Not being a 'max it out' kind of person I didn't take that advice but it was nice to learn that banking it down a bit might improve things. I might add that the person who gave me that advice lives within rock-throwing distance of one of (what I've read to be) one of SL's server sites so for her the advice was probably correct.

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"Yes, Peggy's advice was something I'd found recently myself. I use Firestorm and the Phoenix page that advises people on settings suggests that you find out what your download bandwith actually is and then set your inworld bandwidth to about 3/4 of that. In my case 1500 works pretty good but again that might be because I do have a relatively close connection and pretty quick pings.

..."

------------------------------------------------

Thanks for vote of confidence.  But reading the rest of the paragraph one might be lead to believe I have some affiliation with Phoenix or Firestorm.  I just want say I do not..........I don't use TPV's and refuse to use them again since the Emerlad fiasco of a couple years ago (especially Phoenix since many of the folks involved in that whole childish mess are now the devs at Phoenix.......they lost my trust and soured me on all TPV's).  All I know about making SL work better is some hands on experience at building computers and the necessary configuring involved to make the system as efficient as I can and some 7 years of reading SL related forums and blogs where some bonifide experts share their knowledge.  A little experimentation is something I've never shied away from so, naturally, a lot of my advice stems from that experimentation (including the stuff that doesn't work.......bandwidth settings, for example).

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I did not mean to imply that your advice had to do with Phoenix, just that it mirrored what I'd seen on their FAQ.

I won't get into the Emerald/Phoenix discussion with you other than to say it's obvious I don't share your opinion. What I DO share is your appreciation of the fact that there are a whole lot of people here who really do have good knowledge about the nuts and bolts of Second Life. You have to have a certain amount of knowledge to separate the wheat from the chaff, but in my opinion there's really much more wheat than chaff here. Lots of good information.

 

 

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I agree about the wheat/chaf stuff.  However there are enough preveyers of chaf to confuse the new people.  I mean someone is having some issue or problem and is seeking help then some sour puss jumps in with bull chips about SL and fills the new person's head with completely untrue "facts".........how is the person going to get their problem resolved when that happens. 

To be honest it "peeves" (I want to use another word but the filters will bleep it anyway) me off.  Sometimes I just can't hold my fingers still.  Oh well, it entertains some (I hope it doesn't put too many off........though I think it might).  Makes life interesting....I think you and I have had some discussions at opposite ends of the spectrum a few times.  :)

Take care.

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Ha ha. The other word started with the same letter, I reckon.

As to the wheat: that's kind of what I meant about having to have some knowledge, and of course if someone's brand new how would they? Hopefully enough people post who can actually provide valid suggestions to override the flamers.

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

I agree about the wheat/chaf stuff.  However there are enough preveyers of chaf to confuse the new people.  I mean someone is having some issue or problem and is seeking help then some sour puss jumps in with bull chips about SL and fills the new person's head with completely untrue "facts".........how is the person going to get their problem resolved when that happens. 

To be honest it "peeves" (I want to use another word but the filters will bleep it anyway) me off.  Sometimes I just can't hold my fingers still.  Oh well, it entertains some (I hope it doesn't put too many off........though I think it might).  Makes life interesting....I think you and I have had some discussions at opposite ends of the spectrum a few times. 
:)

Take care.

I think the original purveyor of the Bandwidth Chaff was actually Torley.  It was one of his Tips videos which to the best of my search ability is no longer posted.  In that video he had the Statistics Bar open and suggested watching it as you raised the bandwidth until you saw a negative impact.  While he admitted in that video that he was technically out of his field, his overall advice was just to crank it up unless it caused you problems.

That video has since been replaced by another but I'm feeling too lazy to dig it out now.

At least this is my memory though occasionally it has been known to be faulty.

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Torley, bless his heart, is a Second Life photographer (an excellent one, by the way).  He may have some technical training but he's basically like the rest of us residents in that his advice stems from experience using SL for years (he started out as a resident way back in the beginning and got hired by LL).  I grew to like him back in early 2006 on the old original SL forums.........he was one of the very few Lindens to participate in the forums (mostly on what was then called "Linden Answers" where residents posted a question and a Linden was supposed to answer the question......Torley and a very few Lindens regularly answered).  He's a good person and, I'm sure, he helps in any way he can when he can......but his technical knowledge is just like mine (a resident who learned by trial and error plus some common sense and a lot or reading from people who are technically knowledgable).

I remember seeing that video tutorial too.  I never faulted him but I never took what he said to heart.......it just didn't jive with my experience or what common sense told me about bandwidth.  A great big hose can deliver a lot of water in a minute.  But it has limits in what it's capable or delivering none the less.  Your computer system can process a lot of data in a second.  But, too has limits on what it's capable of processing.  If you attempt to make either the hose or your system do more than they are capable of doing you will run into issues that will effect your performance negatively (every time too).

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ProfessorSchaeler wrote:

EVERY DAMN DAY THE LAG GETS WORSE AND WORSE! WHAT'S GOING ON?

I'VE INVESTED GOOD MONEY HERE AND YOU CAN'T EVEN IMPROVE THINGS? WHAT THE HELL KIND OF PROGRAMERS YOU GOT WORKING FOR YOU? I KNOW IT'S NOT MY COMPUTER BECAUSE THINGS WERE RUNNING FINE ON THE SAME COMPUTER BEFORE!

GET IT TOGETHER WILL YOU?

Please go back to basics and check your graphics card drivers are up to date, that you have plenty of spare RAM, and that does mean giving your computer some basic maintenance.  Disk cleanup, defragment, and a jolly good blow out with air spray to keep all the components dust/fluff-free and cool.  You would be amazed at how these simple little things can vastly improve your Second Life. 

I was in Second Life today for the first time in a week or so and apart from crashing after a griefer attacked the busy sim I was on, I did not suffer lag. 

The Linden people do not wish to swim through lag, so do not create the lag or leave the lag on purpose.  There are occasionally rollouts (Tuesdays) that may cause issues.  Embrace the quirks, but remember 99% of the lagginess we experience is actually down to us, our script usage, and just like if we forget to check the oil and tyre pressure in our cars they let us down too, and it ain't the car manufacturers' fault.

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

*The correct placement of the
would have been after the M, since I was talking about Members in plural, not Parliaments. Was my usage correct or would it be written M'sP by, dare I say, a Brit?

The correct position for the 's' is at the end, so you put it in the right place. But talking about something is nothing to do with ownership of anything, so including an apostrophe was incorrect ;)

MPs is correct for your context - multiple members od parliament.

MP's would be correct when used to indicate that a single MP owns something; e.g. the MP's car is outside

MPs' would be correct for plural ownership.

:)

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English 101.  :)

Got a question professor:  Apostrophies are used in contractions too...correct?  So say I want to tell someone that a person sent me an instant message.  I can say "Phil sent me an instant message today" or I can says "Phil IM'd me today".  Would both be correct?  Or is the "IM'd me" an incorrect usage of the apostrophy?

Sorry, I'm being ornry this morning......breakfast is done yet.  :)

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

Torley, bless his heart.....................

I like Torley too.  I've had several great exchanges with him. 

I always loved his video tutorials. Many were very helpful to me, so we can forgive him that one. 

I do know he is very active in the feeds.  I wish he'd engage with us more here in the Forum.

I always valued his insight into a lot of things SL.

 

eta: clarity

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You are correct, Peggy. That's the way it is (notice the apostrophe in "that's" to indicate a contraction).

What I don't know is whether or not there's a rule concerning nouns. For instance, MP is a noun, as is Phil. Apostrophe s at the end of each would indicate ownership but I don't think that apostrophe s at the end of nouns is used in contractions.

However, I also don't think that IM'd is a correct way of writing IMed. Just a (probable) bad example though :)

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

English 101. 
:)

Got a question professor:  Apostrophies are used in contractions too...correct?  So say I want to tell someone that a person sent me an instant message.  I can say
"Phil sent me an instant message today"
or I can says "Phil IM'd me today".  Would both be correct?  Or is the "IM'd me" an incorrect usage of the apostrophy?

Sorry, I'm being ornry this morning......breakfast is done yet. 
:)

(Emphasis mine)

That is actually incorrect grammar.  The sentence should read: "Phil sent an instant message to me today."

My excuse for being ornry (can also be spelled ornery) is no caffeine. ;)

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Phil Deakins wrote:

You are correct, Peggy. That's the way it is (notice the apostrophe in "that's" to indicate a contraction).

What I don't know is whether or not there's a rule concerning nouns. For instance, MP is a noun, as is Phil. Apostrophe s at the end of each would indicate ownership but I don't think that apostrophe s at the end of nouns is used in contractions.

However, I also don't think that IM'd is a correct way of writing IMed. Just a (probable) bad example though
:)

Two  long to copy and paste the whole page but here is rule #11

 

Rule 11

The plurals for capital letters and numbers used as nouns are not formed with apostrophes.

Examples:

She consulted with three M.D.s.

BUT

She went to three M.D.s' offices.

The apostrophe is needed here to show plural possessive.

She learned her ABCs.

the 1990s not the 1990's

the '90s or the mid-'70s not the '90's or the mid-'70's

She learned her times tables for 6s and 7s.

Exception:

Use apostrophes with capital letters and numbers when the meaning would be unclear otherwise.

Examples:

Please dot your i's.

You don't mean is.

Ted couldn't distinguish between his 6's and 0's.

You need to use the apostrophe to indicate the plural of zero or it will look like the word Os. To be consistent within a sentence, you would also use the apostrophe to indicate the plural of 6's.

Grammar Book: Apostrophes

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Alas, I often wonder if I've gotten it right and find quite often I have not. The misplaced apostrophe is probably my third most common error. To/too and there/their are probably first and second respectively. Regrettably, low level versions of spellcheckers are perfectly happy with those in any form; that's why I rarely use spellcheckers. False sense of security.

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

But you're from Kentucky (I think) and I'm from Arkansas (misplaced, at the moment, in S. California).  That would explain the "Phil sent me an IM today" vs "Phil an IM to me today"..........y'all just talk funny.  
:)

Where on earth did you get the idea I was from Kentucky???????  I do agree that folks in the rural areas of Appalachia have their own "unique" speech.

Me from Kentucky??? Still getting over that one.  I live in Florida and have always been a "city girl." :)  My grammar correction is from being an English major in college and generally enjoying the whole subject of words/spelling/grammar, etc.  Well that and to get into the forum fun of where apostrophes should be placed when referring to MPs, etc. :matte-motes-tongue:

Wut choo mean I tak phuny? ;)

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