Rebooting Second Life; Make your choice Neo.

[Nuhai Ling]

A recent thread made me think back about a conversation with another content provider about the future of Second Life and some fun hypotheticals. One of those held particular interest; what if Second Life was sold to a company that cared about it as a community rather than a revenue source? The question led immediately to another one; would it even be possible using Second Life as we know it today or would it require a reboot to sort out fundamental problems? For instance, how could the new operators back out of competitive programs like Linden Homes, correct the massive Resident family tree, institute an enforceable TOS code, fix land-masses to function more effectively, bring back gambling & banking, etc. without a major overhaul of the entire grid? As we thought more about this we suddenly had flashbacks to The Architect of the Matrix telling Neo the grid is going down, it’s just a matter of how that he is left to choose. Thinking about that, what would your choice be as a resident if given the chance to “fix” Second Life? Would you embrace a new architect promoting a greater vision or fight to keep all you know and love? Before answering, here is the summery my friend and I envisioned of the new community-based overhaul:

 

Community Company X is going to wipe clean the Second Life grid and rebuild its fundamental structure. In its place will be a uniform and enforceable TOS code, redesigned efficient continents, a pre-determined total land mass, one viewer designed by the Firestorm team, a free-economy financial structure, in-world building codes & arbitration system, and unbiased tier structure among other things. Residents will retain their avatar names but those belonging to the “Resident” family tree will have to choose new first and second names. Residents will keep their linden balances, current inventory, and given land credit to acquire parcels on the new grid during a pre-sale period. To enforce the TOS code and accommodate a stream-lined transaction system, ALL residents will be required to provide proof of age and a financial account such as a credit card. The SL Market will also have changes made to encourage more in-world product distribution and sales. Last but not least, all previous in-world corporate programs such as Linden Homes and Linden Realms will be eliminated.

 

So what would you do Neo?

[Trinity Yazimoto]

Rofl..... im just Trinity, im not Neo.... i cant answer for him :smileywink: 

 

[Orca Flotta]

@ Nuhai: dream on, dreamer. :matte-motes-sunglasses-1:

As  nifty as your suggestions do sound I don't believe any company would do it. Even if they were working on a non-profit scale they still would've to feed 250 families and need sustainable income to have some funds for new hardware.

Anyway, what I would do is (in no particular order) ...

1) fix sim crossings

2) get rid of laggy voice crap

3) connect the continents with at least some narrow channels/corridors. Say 2 sims wide, 1 by road, 1 as waterway

4) reduce the numbers of sims on a server

5) test new server code in a special area, don't roll it out in a checkerboard manner

6) get rid of the marketplace, make it a search directory only. Collect 10% of every commercial monetary transaction anyway, call it VAT

7) get rid of Linden homes

8) stop developing of unrelated stuff like games and **bleep**

9) make all the grid adult or better, just get rid of the age verification stuff. Just don't accept new members without payment method

10) lower tier rates fundamentally

11) smallest parcel size would be 4096 m²

12) after a test period of 3 mth make it mandatory premium. That goes for alts as well

13) don't allow banlines and security orbs on mainland

14) try to connect as many private regions as possible to mainland

15) have a continuing theme for landscape/terraforming and weather conditions

16) have a general wind that is consistant throughout the whole world

17) put a working functional infrastructure of rezzable waterways, roads, railroads, airports, airship docks, spaceship docks, marinas and harbours in place

18) put a 1 sim wide protected ocean ring around every continent

19) get rid of all the n00b hangouts/orientation islands. Instead have every new resident rezz in an orientation area first where they have to absolve a number of basic tasks and maybe even some basic building stuff and a test about their knowledge (multiple choice), that they have to pass before they are allowed to transition to the main grid

20) bring back last names

21) put sandboxes and testing grounds in a special area

22) close the grid once a week for serious maintenance

 

 

[Nyll Bergbahn]

Some random thoughts.

You lost me immediately when suggesting the Firestorm team create the sole viewer. Not everyone by any means wants that bloated piece of coding. Give me Niran's far superior graphically oriented viewer anytime and allow any other authorised viewers for more challenged computer systems. Some people have problems running one viewer but can use others.

Lets not go back to an old style proof of age either or perhaps you have forgotten the chaos and problems it caused. The new system is fine and what virtually all websites and games use, that is user age confirmation.

Don't care what happens to Linden Realms as it's a total mess at the moment but why eliminate Linden Homes? I've had a home there for two and a half years and I'm perfectly happy thank you very much. Just because you don't like the concept for whatever reasons doesn't mean the thousands of people living there don't. Remember that all Linden Home owners are paying Premium members.

No company will focus solely on the community's welfare and happiness. All companies work to a financial baseline with regard to staffing, funding and profit so I doubt you'll find a company to run a new Utopian Second Life.

There would be absolute mayhem with the invention of a one land mass continent to supercede what is there at the moment due to various reasons, especially the huge protected sea frontage of the existing continents to what could be achieved with a single land mass as well as land bordered by protected Linden roads and railways. You would also still need a second Adult continent.

Yes, I dislike the Resident title and would welcome any initiative to end that.

Yes, Marketplace is slowly killing inworld sales leading to many store owners reducing or abandoning their inworld stores and the shopping experience. Again I would welcome any new initiative to revitalise inworld shopping.

[Theresa Tennyson]

It's early and I don't feel like typing a lot so I'll just say what everyone else is saying in a shorter form:

"I want everyone to do what I like and stop doing what I don't like."

[Alazarin Mondrian]

That's quite a shopping list. Gambling & banking aren't coming back to SL for the forseeable future. Gambling, because there's RL legislation that gets in the way and as for banking, two words: Ginko Financial. We do have memories, y'know.

[Tex Monday]

---

Alazarin Mondrian wrote:

That's quite a shopping list. Gambling & banking aren't coming back to SL for the forseeable future. Gambling, because there's RL legislation that gets in the way and as for banking, two words: Ginko Financial. We do have memories, y'know.

---

Wow..I always wondered why there were no banks in SL. I've been here (in various AVs) since 2008, so I never heard about this. Thanks for the information...very interesting.

 

 

 

 

[Orca Flotta]

@ Nyll: I'm not in favor of a giant super continent, you must've misunderstood me there. One continent gives not enough coastal/beach property. But I'm in favor of a continguent world where I can go everywhere without TP. Look at the thousands of private islands out there in the void, it's terrible. If some hermit wants their own private paradise and total privacy let 'em pay throught their nose. The rest can be connected to the continents, if not by land then by 'real' ocean.

I don't even know why people are calling SL a virtual world for it is by all means nothing but a collection of many many microworlds.

[Nyll Bergbahn]

Hi Orca! I wasn't referring to your post as you posted after me but actually I may have misunderstood Nuhai's reference to continents when he talked about redesigning the continents and a pre-determined total land mass. Maybe he does mean retaining the existing continents and just redesigning them.

[Paul Hexem]

I'd just be happy with stable and reasonably priced servers.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Alazarin Mondrian wrote:

That's quite a shopping list. Gambling & banking aren't coming back to SL for the forseeable future. Gambling, because there's RL legislation that gets in the way and as for banking, two words: Ginko Financial. We do have memories, y'know.

---

Banking is allowed in SL.  If it complies with the TOS.  But what Bank would want to invest any time in SL's micro- economy.  Considering what it would cost to run, a Bank would lose money.

Oh.  Wait!  There's another great idea for a way for a Bank to lose money.  They should all jump on it.

 

[jwenting]

"sation with another content provider about the future of Second Life and some fun hypotheticals. One of those held particular interest; what if Second Life was sold to a company that cared about it as a community rather than a revenue source?"

2 months later they'd be bankrupt and second life shut down. Not just because of the financial mismanagement, but because it's impossible to keep everyone happy. Whatever you do, someone's not going to like it, and most often that's the very person who, screaming, demanded you do it in the first place.

[jwenting]

---

Orca Flotta wrote:

. Look at the thousands of private islands out there in the void, it's terrible. If some hermit wants their own private paradise and total privacy let 'em pay throught their nose. The rest can be connected to the continents, if not by land then by 'real' ocean.

.

---

we already do, you know... Private islands cost a lot more than mainland. And yet they're popular because there's far better control over the content. No neighbours putting up massive eyesores blocking your view to 100m+ high for starters, no people complaining about you putting up access restrictions to keep out the griefers and squatters who're too cheap to rent or buy a house but demand to have a place of their own anyway.

 

[jwenting]

---

Gadget Portal wrote:

I'd just be happy with stable and reasonably priced servers.

---

so you're happy now. SL as a whole is extremely stable. It's a rare occurance for a server to crash (especially considering the sheer number of the things that are running).

And price is relative. It's not cheap to run those things, you know (or more likely you don't, you just think it should be free like gmail is free, except of course gmail isn't free, you pay for that by handing Google all yourprivate information and the content of every single email you send or receive).

 

[Paul Hexem]

---

jwenting wrote:

---

Gadget Portal wrote:

I'd just be happy with stable and reasonably priced servers.

---

so you're happy now. SL as a whole is extremely stable. It's a rare occurance for a server to crash (especially considering the sheer number of the things that are running).

And price is relative. It's not cheap to run those things, you know (or more likely you don't, you just think it should be free like gmail is free, except of course gmail isn't free, you pay for that by handing Google all yourprivate information and the content of every single email you send or receive).

 

---

Hi. I'm reading comprehension. You must be Stupid. Have we met? Don't insult my intelligence and I won't insult yours.

I said reasonably priced. Not free. There's a huge difference.

And just because the entire server isn't crashing, that doesn't make it stable. Put more than 30 avatars on a sim- by no definition of the word is it then stable, even though it hasn't crashed.

[Nuhai Ling]

Thank you for some really good replies so far! A lot of what is being tossed around was part of the discussion I had that prompted this thread. Let me add a few things to expand the thought process...

This hypothetical assumes that some company would purchase and invest in Second Life as a community, however unlikely that might be.

The reboot would include two major changes to the land masses. First, mainland would be redesigned to make it more efficient. For example, roadways would not straddle sim crossings and bridges would connect smaller island groups to create additional waterfront land. Increasing the smallest sized parcel from 16 sq/M to 512 sg/M would resolve other land issues. Second, the total amount of land - main and private regions - would be set at a particular amount, i.e. 15,000 regions. This would re-establish a land market in-world and allow Community Company X to better maintain servers, provide upgrades, etc.

Banking and gambling were included because litigation and legal considerations for both are not nearly as confining as Linden Lab states, and in most instances has been resolved in favor of allowing both. Of course the new TOS would include regulations for both so they are not abused.

Deciding to have Firestorm build the viewer was not as important as having only one viewer developed either by Community Company X or a subcontracted company in-tune with what users need and request. If it helps, replace Firestorm in that instance with Reliable Subcontractor  Z.

A tier reduction was not mentioned because everyone would like it to be less. On the other hand, discounts for whatever reason - including previously grandfathered rates and bulk rebates the land barons receive - would be eliminated.

I think that covers the major questions everyone had. I hope people keep contributing because its a fun hypothetical and it looks like a majority of us are on the same page. Another interesting fact is that no one wants to be Neo and save SL as it is... shame shame! :matte-motes-big-grin-wink:

 

 

 

[solstyse]

I think a lot of these answers are actually terrible. "get rid of....." or "Force people to....." Would do more to drive people out of sl than to bring them in.  To be perfectly honest, I think most of he changes should be very difficult for us to spot.

1. Consider moving the corporate headquarters out of Cailifornia. This is nothing against the residents of CA, but that state is very difficult and costly to run a business in. Long term, there would be savings by moving.

2. Delete accounts that have been inactive for a period of one year or more. Clearly, these people have left. To come back would be like starting over. This would clean up room on their databases.

3. Set standards that would make builders optimize what they upload. For example, if sl can only display 512pixel textures, disallow 1024. As in they won't eveen upload. This would save space and bandwidth.

4. Conduct a study to determine the optimal price for tier. As far as I've seen, the only advantage that the open source worlds have compared to sl is tier cost. As in, for $40, you can have more prims in a "full sim" than what you get in sl for $300. Now, it would be unwise for SL to go anywhere near that low, because they ARE a business. They DO need to make profit. And realistically, for the amount of content adn the number of people in sl, it IS worth more. Plus, sl is more secure. Set tier price at whatever this study proves is the best mix of volume vs margin to maximize profit.

5. Wait until a new feature is perfected, or nearly so before releasing it. People will embrace the changes more if they know they'll work.

6. Get more involved in the forums, chats, etc. Get more feedback from the users.

7. Move storage of common Linden textures (like gound, water, roads...)  from servers to the users PC's. Again, to free up server load.

8. Compete. As in, try to make the next viewer something that'll attract current users of tpv's back to the default viewer. Figure out why they want to use the tpv's in the first place, and give them the most common features that made them turn away. but still allow tpv's for those that remain loyal to their viewers.

9. An inventory "auto-sort" button. Something that can put all clothing in the clothing folder, etc. Expiring inventory, also, which doesn't auto delete, but prompts users about any item they haven't used in the past 6 months with an option to delete, remind them later, or "Preview then ask again." (What I mean by that is, you might wonder, "waht is that piece of clothing that it's asking me if I want to keep? Let me wear it and find out.")

10. Defrag the map. Still keep private islands and regions private. But a better mapping system is a must.

11. Improve search functions. And have in-viewer tutorials. Perhaps a question mark toggle that you can hover over an object or function.

12. An outright ban on griefer tools. With a very clearly defined line between what is a griefer tool, and what is something potentially useful that can be potentially misused.

13 Local backup for builders on their own PC's, to be accompanied with a ban on copybot capable anything.

So basically, most of what I would do is make the "behind the scenes" work better.

[Nyll Bergbahn]

---

solstyse wrote:

I think a lot of these answers are actually terrible. "get rid of....." or "Force people to....." Would do more to drive people out of sl than to bring them in.  To be perfectly honest, I think most of he changes should be very difficult for us to spot.

---

...and yet you say:

2. Delete accounts that have been inactive for a period of one year or more. Clearly, these people have left. To come back would be like starting over. This would clean up room on their databases.

Why? We know many people come back to SL after a year or even years of inactivity and are entitled to have their accounts still in place and fully functional.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

 I agree with some of what you posted but not all and commented on why I don't.  I also added some.

 

Orca Flotta wrote:

Anyway, what I would do is (in no particular order) ...

1) fix sim crossings

2) get rid of laggy voice crap

Not sure what you mean by this.  I have no problem with lag and voice.  Voice is an entirely different system from the rest of SL so it can't cause lag on a sim.  Any lag you have is on your end only and you can turn off voice to stop it.  If you mean just get rid of voice I strongly disagree.  I like having the option to voice when it is more efficient than having to type everything out and to be able to talk to friends in voice. I should not be forced to only type and you should not be forced to voice if that is your wish.

3) connect the continents with at least some narrow channels/corridors. Say 2 sims wide, 1 by road, 1 as waterway

4) reduce the numbers of sims on a server

5) test new server code in a special area, don't roll it out in a checkerboard manner

6) get rid of the marketplace, make it a search directory only. Collect 10% of every commercial monetary transaction anyway, call it VAT.

A tax can only be imposed by a RL government,  Everything else is a fee.  Why should a merchant have to pay 10 percent of their earnings when they would also be paying tier?  That hardly seems fair unless, unlike now on MP,  you could price your items to reflect the fee. You can bet customers would scream bloody murder if this were deducted from their accounts. Right now the commission is charged to cover the costs of running the MP for sales.  If it turned into just a search engine, why shouldn't profiles, event listings, land listings, places, etc placed in search not have to pay a fee too?

7) get rid of Linden homes

I wouldn't eliminate them altogether, but I would make them a starter home as they were originally intended to be and limit the time a member can have one to a few months while they orient themselves to SL.  However I feel that even then smaller and affordable parcels should be available on the mainland for those that can't afford more.  Having a home if one would like one does help with retention.

8) stop developing of unrelated stuff like games and **bleep**

9) make all the grid adult or better, just get rid of the age verification stuff. Just don't accept new members without payment method

A minor can have a credit card, a bank account and a pay pal account.  So this would not work for age verification.

10) lower tier rates fundamentally

11) smallest parcel size would be 4096 m²

Not everyone needs that much land nor could many afford it even with lower tiers. So you'd end up with a huge population of homeless people squatting or trying to use other peoples homes for their home.

12) after a test period of 3 mth make it mandatory premium. That goes for alts as well

I am not premium but I bet over the years I have paid way more to LL than most premium members do in the form of estate tiers and fees, MP commissions, and fees when I cash out L's, just to name a few.  You would lose a huge amount  of the population, including venue owners and content creators if premium membership were forced.

13) don't allow banlines and security orbs on mainland

Those that pay for the land should be allowed to control who can go on it just like you can in RL.  Just because you don't respect that and feel you have a right to go anywhere you please doesn't mean that access controls should not be allowed.  Many people , including myself, would not own land without the ability to control access to it.

14) try to connect as many private regions as possible to mainland

Why?  I don't want my islands connected to the mainland and pay a premium amount for keeping them separate.  If I did want them connected, I'd buy mainland. Again I think this is related to your feeling that you have a right to go anywhere.

15) have a continuing theme for landscape/terraforming and weather conditions

On mainland only, possibly.

16) have a general wind that is consistant throughout the whole world

RL wind is not like this, why should it be here?  I do agree that on mainland or connected private islands it would be nice to have at least transitions between wind zones, like in RL.

17) put a working functional infrastructure of rezzable waterways, roads, railroads, airports, airship docks, spaceship docks, marinas and harbours in place

18) put a 1 sim wide protected ocean ring around every continent

19) get rid of all the n00b hangouts/orientation islands. Instead have every new resident rezz in an orientation area first where they have to absolve a number of basic tasks and maybe even some basic building stuff and a test about their knowledge (multiple choice), that they have to pass before they are allowed to transition to the main grid

A nice idea but a good many would leave before they ever made it in to the main grid.

20) bring back last names

21) put sandboxes and testing grounds in a special area

And monitor them better and strictly enforce the rules against griefing etc.

22) close the grid once a week for serious maintenance

At one time they did this and it didn't work any better than the present system does now.  The problem with deploys now isn't that they are done on a rolling basis but that they push out new code before it has been tested and debugged properly.

 

My Addiotions:

23) Allow land owners to ban not just the avatar but the person behind it so they couldn't return in an alt.  No private information would be needed.  A simple avatar ban would ban all alts too and any new ones created.

24) The ability of a region owner to back up their sim and copiable things on it, and to restore it when they have the need..  Perhaps even store a few versions too, for example seasonal.versions.  I'd even like to see backups include no copy items if a way could be devised for the items owner to end up with just one copy.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I disagree about one viewer for all no matter who makes it.  I use different views for different tasks now.

I also disagree that there should only be a fixed amount of land, as it would artificially drive up the prices and cripple the bitty for the company to make money when they run out of land.

Your are mistaken about gambling which is not legal in many places nor is it legal for a company to make it available on the internet in many of those places, including but not limited to most states in the US, or for a US company to bypass these laws by moving offshore.

Banking is currently allowed if the bank follows RL US banking regulations and is backed up by a RL bank.  A good thing IMHO.  Otherwise as in the past people would lose their shirt.

I also disagree about the discounts and grandfathering,  It is common practice in RL for a company to give favorable pricing to long term customers and customers that buy in bulk.  However any discount programs should be made public and open to anyone meeting the criteria, not conducted in secret like it is now.

I don't see any need to shut the grid down and make everyone rebuild everything and lose their income if they are in business. When the new grid is ready ,they could just switch them. The fantasy grid could be developed separately and people be given the option of having their private estates transferred to it, but I can't think of a fair way to handle transferring mainland over without invariably someone ending up with land that is less desirable to them than what they now have, unless mainland were exactly the same.

Lastly I'm not sure why people are so adamant about forcing all selling to take place in world.  In RL, a business has a choice of being a brick store or a web store or both.   If there us demand for an in world shopping experience for some products, a smart merchant will provide it, if it pays for it self, but should not be forced to if it doesn't.  Seems to me consumers have a choice now of how and where they shop and most opt for the MP because of the convenience.  If a merchant chooses not to sell on MP knowing this and fails, then they have no one to blame but them self for their choice.  That is what a free market is about.

[161488303349]

i would make avatar-centric instead of sim-centric

meaning that the world is contiguous but only exists out to the avatars draw distance sphere

when you logon then you stay on the same physical computer. you dont actually move. the world moves

this way you will never need to be transferred to another virtual instance/sim. like no sim crossings

actual need 2 instances per avatar to do this tho. one for the avatar world view and one to composite the world and everything in it, including other avatars with spheres that interlock with yours

the other thing is that an avatar can choose which other avatars sphere to interlock with. can choose many if you got the computer, or just one or even just yourself. both avatars can either agree to interlock or not as they like. altho can just go public. see all just like in SL now

if is no avatar logged in then is no computers running except the login server

[solstyse]

---

Nyll Bergbahn wrote:

---

solstyse wrote:

I think a lot of these answers are actually terrible. "get rid of....." or "Force people to....." Would do more to drive people out of sl than to bring them in.  To be perfectly honest, I think most of he changes should be very difficult for us to spot.

---

...and yet you say:

2. Delete accounts that have been inactive for a period of one year or more. Clearly, these people have left. To come back would be like starting over. This would clean up room on their databases.

Why? We know many people come back to SL after a year or even years of inactivity and are entitled to have their accounts still in place and fully functional.

---

Actually, this surprises me. i thought a year without a single login was a good threshold. Guess I was rong about that. But I do think that there should be some point in time where inactive accounts are considered to just be clutter. i definitely think that keeping abandoned avatars indefinitely would be a waste of resources. But I could definitely have been wrong about how to determine if an avatar has been abandoned.

 

[Knowl Paine]

1. Advertise
2. Create a dual currency.
3. Offer a 1024sqm Linden Home.
4. Allow Groups to Group.
5. Create a continuous shoreline.
6. Pay all Residents a stipend
7. Create Task Specific Viewers
8. Show the last two Login dates for MP Merchants.
9. Create Covenants for some Mainland Regions.
10. Grant additional Lands, to the Railroad projects.

 

Advertising. :smileyindifferent:

 

A Dual Currency: One L$ can be exchanged, the other L$, cannot be exchanged. Both L$'s would be an accepted form of payment, for Inworld purchases, and, for use at MP, with some restrictions.

Both L$'s could be used to pay Tier to LL. 

Merchants could select the type of L$ payments they accept.

 

A 1024 sqm Linden Home would be an Optional standard Linden Home, with the addition of 512sqm. of green/yard space. (at additional cost)

 

Residents, who have decided to not purchase additional Membership options, would be given a weekly Stipend, of L$, good for Inworld use only.

All Residents would still be allowed to use both types of L$.

I think this might help in reducing fraud.

 

The Mainland covenants, might require more time than I currently have, to fully detail.

 

I have identified several large parcels, which may benefit the railroad groups. The land is empty, I don't see why they cannot use it.

 

Fixing the obvious problems, is obvious.

We've worked around them long enough, carry on.

 

Second Life needs to be more inviting, it's the simple things; a continuation of a goal, opportunities in hope. Something to build upon.

 

[Perrie Juran]

---

solstyse wrote:

---

Nyll Bergbahn wrote:

---

solstyse wrote:

I think a lot of these answers are actually terrible. "get rid of....." or "Force people to....." Would do more to drive people out of sl than to bring them in.  To be perfectly honest, I think most of he changes should be very difficult for us to spot.

---

...and yet you say:

2. Delete accounts that have been inactive for a period of one year or more. Clearly, these people have left. To come back would be like starting over. This would clean up room on their databases.

Why? We know many people come back to SL after a year or even years of inactivity and are entitled to have their accounts still in place and fully functional.

---

Actually, this surprises me. i thought a year without a single login was a good threshold. Guess I was rong about that. But I do think that there should be some point in time where inactive accounts are considered to just be clutter. i definitely think that keeping abandoned avatars indefinitely would be a waste of resources. But I could definitely have been wrong about how to determine if an avatar has been abandoned.

 

---

Even when someone cancels an account or an account is banned from SL it is archived in some manner.

I don't know the technical details but it has something to do with the way the data base works.

In the very early days of SL they did actually delete the accounts.  But because of the way an object, etc, is associated with the Avatar who made it, deleting the account caused problems for any one who had a copy of that object.