Czari Zenovka Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I received what I considered a somewhat strange group notice today. It was from a well-known and reputable SL school and said to not use TPVs because (paraphrased) a lot of people are getting hacked. It went on to give some suggestions of what to disable, etc. for greater security but again stated that TPVs are not as "secure."If this had come from a random person in, for example, a hunt group, I would have dismissed it as one person's opinion. Considering the group through which this came, I give it a bit more credence but, having not heard of or read on the forums about any widespread hacking, thought I would bring it here to see if anyone else received the notice and/or any thoughts on this.I personally love the TPV I use and, thus far, have never had any hacking issues. For that matter, I began using the Nicholaz viewer back in 2008 until it stopped new releases after SL v2 came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Hermit Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 My only thoughts on this is that, reputable SL school or not, they're spreading unnecessary alarm if they are actually saying words to the effect that TPVs could lead to people's accounts being hacked. Fair enough, they are being responsible by suggesting group members up their security, and to remind them about commonsense things such as antivirus software, strong passwords and such like. If, however, there is an issue with TPVs being less secure, and the SL school, or any individual or organisation has reasons to be suspicious, I hope they are also taking that information directly to LL so they can look into it. I do have qualms about using any old TPV, preferring to stick with Phoenix, but some people will always insist on linking this TPV back to Emerald. At the end of the day, can we even trust everyone at LL not to hack into our account? Commonsense, and lots of it, is needed. You should have a word with whoever put out that group information, ensure they do take their findings/suspicions to LL for verification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 Thanks, Echo. I will contact the person who sent the notice. I found it a bit alarmist as well but thought I'd run it by the forumites, just in case. And I also use Phoenix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamara Artis Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Isn't it supposed to be that any viewer we can download from TPV's list is secure as LL's viewer? I saw the same notice, and I use tpv's. But I also watch not to click any links that I don't trust or specially never asked for, I never click my viewer to remember password, it is one of the main reasons I stay online so long, my password is too long and I'm lazy to type it too often:p Its always good to remind people they need to be careful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 Tamara Artis wrote: Isn't it supposed to be that any viewer we can download from TPV's list is secure as LL's viewer? I saw the same notice, and I use tpv's. But I also watch not to click any links that I don't trust or specially never asked for, I never click my viewer to remember password, it is one of the main reasons I stay online so long, my password is too long and I'm lazy to type it too often:p Its always good to remind people they need to be careful... That's what I figured as well, Tamara re: sticking with the TPVs on LL's approved list. I do the same security precautions you recommend. Just found it strange to receive a group notice that said, "Don't use TPVs." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tari Landar Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Sometimes, even the most well intentioned people can send on messages that very well may not be 100% truth. It happens. Always wise to inform others about safety and such. But sometimes those messages cause more trouble than they're worth. The whole game of telephone comes to mind. Person A has trouble with a viewer(or just their system, and they assume it's the viewer) and tells B C and D. By the time Mr. F finds out it's become some mixed up fable about a viewer letting hackers and trojans and all kinds of other nasty business into someone's system. Then someone's brother's cousin's dog's neighbor's left toe lost everything because of it, too. Most likely...not true, but the original message probably had merit, before it get terribly distorted. I've seen all kinds of notecards and other messages that, in a round about way, do the same thing that one was intended to do. Most times they cause unwanted drama, though-because they're not 100% truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Ceawlin Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Tamara Artis wrote: Isn't it supposed to be that any viewer we can download from TPV's list is secure as LL's viewer? No. Inclusion on the the list of TPVs means only that the developers of the viewer have represented (self-certified) that they comply with the Policy on Third-Party Viewers and the Second Life Terms of Service. 6. c. The Viewer Directory is a self-certification program. Linden Lab does not represent or warrant any independent testing or verification of compliance of any application listed in the Viewer Directory. We disclaim all liability associated with applications in the Viewer Directory. 8. b. We may analyze any Third-Party Viewer and its code, content, and data for any reason, including to ensure that the application complies with our policies and is safe for users. Although we do not guarantee that we will conduct such an analysis, we may do so in our sole discretion. http://secondlife.com/corporate/tpv.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 "Then someone's brother's cousin's dog's neighbor's left toe lost everything because of it...." I love this line...and was loling in RL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 There are still some very technically competent people out there who still hate some of the TPV developers who I wouldn't be surprised are constantly sticking their noses into the TPV codes which must remain publicly viewable to stay on the approved list. In other words, if something came up the lid would get blown off of it. I am always cautious about my computer security. But I give no credence to undocumented claims. Today a quote by a politician's wife started to go Viral on the web. I saw a dozen people I know pass it on. I dug into it and found out it was a spoof from a satirical site. The woman never said what was ascribed to her. Over 12 hours later I am still seeing it passed around as true. This quote was so egrarious that some of the oppositions web sites have been posting warnings to their people to let them know it's not true. False rumours suck donkey you know what. and for the record, I dislike the lady myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar Legion Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Czari Zenovka wrote: I received what I considered a somewhat strange group notice today. It was from a well-known and reputable SL school and said to not use TPVs because (paraphrased) a lot of people are getting hacked. It went on to give some suggestions of what to disable, etc. for greater security but again stated that TPVs are not as "secure." If this had come from a random person in, for example, a hunt group, I would have dismissed it as one person's opinion. Considering the group through which this came, I give it a bit more credence but, having not heard of or read on the forums about any widespread hacking, thought I would bring it here to see if anyone else received the notice and/or any thoughts on this. I personally love the TPV I use and, thus far, have never had any hacking issues. For that matter, I began using the Nicholaz viewer back in 2008 until it stopped new releases after SL v2 came out. Honestly it just reminds me far too much of the "Official Client or No Access" crowd's tactics and views. No client is safe from being "hacked" in one manner or another since the advent of MOAP. The base log in information is still processed by Linden Lab servers .... and yes, there are client programs out there with code hidden in them that redirects this information through a secondary server. Linden Lab had no issue with this in the past so long as that server's data was temporary storage only (the data vanished the second it was sent off to the Lab servers). There are also some out there whose code redirects to a secondary server system for storage/access (dedicated griefer client builds). These types, however, are generally used by those who fully intended to share account access across their groups. It's how a lot of these teams function on other services as well - each account would have more than one person who has access. To treat all Third Party Clients as if they are the same as these specialty builds however .... is insane and shows a level of ignorance that would take quite a bit to counter. I myself use a Third Party Client .... and have had no issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 Thanks Perrie and Solar Agree with all points. I, too, have never had an issue with the two TPV servers I've used - the current one and the one I used for years prior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothGirl Demonia Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 To be honest any Third Party Viewer not released by Linden Lab can contain hacks,virsus, keyloggers, trojans etc. I think we all remember what happend with Emerald, and some of the history on it, which btw one of the people who to my knowledge knew the emerald devs quite well is still in SL running spyware/alt trackers called CDS. The only way you are gonig to know for sure if a viewer has anything malicious before even logging into it is by seeing the source code and seeing the person actually compile it using that code, unless you are a software kiddy and can decompile and check it yourself then recompile that is the only way. The other way I can think of is using a program like Net Limiter, or Commview, and monitoring all traffic coming from your computer and seeing if any packets get sent to any IP's you do not recognize and if you do and can link it back to your viewer then you know there is something fishy, but then again the most common users will not be doing this. Meh. Some people mistake the word hacking from Phishing, Spyware, and Malaware, and there are many causes besides Database compromises which happend with Sony, and a lot of game companies and installing something malicious on your pc, yes it can happen to anyone any time but there are ways to lower the risk. Also by keeping your paypal linked to SL or credit card someone could use your account and run yoru bills up so keep an eye out. 1. Easy Passwords Password vs Pa$sW0rD¿-Z9(-) 2. Clicking fake sign-in links to market place for example, if you discover you have done such immediately change your password. 3. Easy Secret Questions for your games, don't do it. ( For example LL asks for a secret question when you make your account so when you call them you have to answer it.) 4. Java, has been compromised due to its ability to do certain system tasks like those nvidia driver install applets its possible to infect a computer very easily with malicious exploits just by visiting any website I suspect they run a basic script I-Frame, or AD to do this which redirects your browser to another site or connection/enables java to do it your infected in a matter of seconds. 5. Doxing, do not post anything in your profile you don't want on the internet, do not upload graphics, RL pics, put personal indentifying information on facebook, myspace, youtube, etc, as just because you might be secure in SL doesn't mean if you put your mobile phone number on FaceBook that some hacker isn't going to be able to track where you are RL we know 911 calls do it maybe not 100% location but still. Don't even post your RL name for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melita Magic Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 If the group has checked the ability for everyone or other people than the owner to send a notice, then anyone could send it. Sounds on the level of those "don't drive with headlights on" panic emails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tari Landar Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 You seem convinced that the official viewers can't possibly have any of the same issues any other viewer can. I assure you, you're 100% mistaken. Nothing is 100% absolute. Even the official viewers have had their problems, including hackers. You really should let go of the whole CDS and sort of junk. It's lived it's life. It was a good life, but now it's over. Let it rest in peace. Usually I'm the wordy one getting told to cram it cuz I talk too much But I think you've got me beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I assure you, you're 100% mistaken. Nothing is 100% absolute. In that case, maybe she's only 99% mistaken. There's an exception to every rule. Except the rule about exceptions. And the rule about excepting the rule about exceptions. And that last rule, too. And... uh oh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tari Landar Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Qie Niangao wrote: I assure you, you're 100% mistaken. Nothing is 100% absolute. In that case, maybe she's only 99% mistaken. There's an exception to every rule. Except the rule about exceptions. And the rule about excepting the rule about exceptions. And that last rule, too. And... uh oh. Egg zack lee but really it's 99.9984732 and 3/4% mistaken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Qie Niangao wrote: I assure you, you're 100% mistaken. Nothing is 100% absolute. In that case, maybe she's only 99% mistaken. There's an exception to every rule. Except the rule about exceptions. And the rule about excepting the rule about exceptions. And that last rule, too. And... uh oh. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 Qie Niangao wrote: I assure you, you're 100% mistaken. Nothing is 100% absolute. In that case, maybe she's only 99% mistaken. There's an exception to every rule. Except the rule about exceptions. And the rule about excepting the rule about exceptions. And that last rule, too. And... uh oh. Runs for more caffeine before re-reading that again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 Perrie Juran wrote: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Quid satellitum scilicet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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