GothGirl Demonia Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I dont use SL much anymore because of GRIEFERS, but I logged into SL for the first time in a couple of weeks to make a friend some custom tatts, and check on some people and well...I decide to stop by the welcome area's was pretty quiet at the time late night I guess.I noticed SandBox goguen was gone I will miss it );...But I noticed this most of all...http://tinypic.com/r/9b924p/6 And I am pissed off to still be seeing this in our SandBox Months later after the attack on a person I know of from this RP sim where a botter Ripped his work from there posted it all over the SandBox, along with some Vehicles I don't know all the creators but I know this one because I shop with him....This was reported to LL, but without the creator actually file of a DMCA it is hard for LL to do anything, or at least to my knowledge they will not remove the content.I was going to take a video of it but being in the middle of playing 3 games at the same time, and Guild Wars 2 it wouldn't have worked too good.On inspection of this content I noticed that.1. Obviously it came from one of my favorite hair stores.2. That the prims were likely SPOOFED because it had the exact same time creation date, and the people who some of these were created by lead back to reputable people from one of the community's I know of, and I would have to have proof they actually botted to believe it.I also noticed that the objects seemed to have been being passed down from accounts over 1000+ days old. ( This could have been a result of the single prim that came from the creator however.) For those who don't know.Prim Spoofing is a common thing if you give out a full permissions prim at any time Botters get hold of it and prim spoof your creations or anyone's creations with anyones name they want making it like they created the object when they didn't and it has been around for over a year now.See some griefers have came to me in the past with claims that they didn't bot something people who had personal vendetta's against me or hate it happens. At first I wanted to believe that their community didn't support such conduct, I gave them the benefit of the doubt that they didn't, but then they got their friends launching attacks against me, and continued griefing, even foul language in IM's, and a lot more drama. Even from the begining before they brought out the botting to cause even more drama I knew likely where they came from because of their attitude and little griefer remarks. * I DO IT BECAUSE I HAVE THE POWER AND CAN.* I am sorry but after repediate attacks, and acts of griefing towards me personal attacks or not I just can't believe you are not part of the griefer network especially when you drag in more and more friends to help you. Fact is while a griefer is generally not going to admit to griefing I pretty much pinned these people to the wall and showed the community managers where they did nothing and based on the attacks they started this shortly after they found out I was not banned from all their regions just to get the ban applied and cause more drama heh.See I know people who still play Second Life, and I am tired of having to hear from people I know about how they are getting griefed, and how others I know are getting COPY BOTTED so often with no control over it. Like I have said before I don't mind the Bot, or Bot's/API's being used correctly they are GREAT tools, but people ABUSE them way too much, and there has to be something put into SL for verification purposes other than IP, and Hardware Bans to limit the number of accounts that a griefer can make, even thelephone verification. To prevent the outrage of people who might live in Hong Kong for that matter without phone's they wouldn't have to verifiy the account or anything, however all newly created accounts would have to have verification, and add a manual verification as well This would prevent creation of Griefer accounts and sooner or later griefers would run out of ammo to shoot.Here are some more reports I have seen.http://secondlifegriefers.blogspot.com/http://bringitonlivemusicvenue.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caitlin Tobias Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 TL;DR, was this one of your usual grieferrants again? Yawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothGirl Demonia Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 Caitlin Tobias wrote: TL;DR, was this one of your usual grieferrants again? Yawn. Yep it is isn't all about reading btw its about getting this griefing exposed for anyone using all the search engines. See I link all my internet posts to all the search engines and anyone so much as types in Second Life, or Second Life griefing they will get a bomb of results. Idea is to try to get LL to give us some protection and fixes like verification when an account is created to prevent this abuse, and yep this just happend yesterday I saw this in the sandbox. There are many things about politics in SL, some people will agree with posting about the griefing, some will not, just as some people will agree or disagree with other things in SL like creating, like or hate something. Every SandBox MMO has politics like it or not even the other MMO I am currently playing Politics Extreme resulting in War and fighting which is part of the game, but in SL its GRIEFING, and thats how politics work when someone goes crazy for one day or doesn't like someone or something at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanneAnne Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 you know .. if youd just play SL for fun .. & not worry about the toy economy .. none of this would even be an issue .. the way SL is set up thers goin2 be ppl who play the metagame of getting over on the game .. to some thats more interesting & exciting than the game itself .. so just dont participate in any of that stuff & you wont be griefed theres plenty of fun to be had in SL w/out being involved in any of this stuff Jeanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 GothGirl Demonia wrote: This was reported to LL, but without the creator actually file of a DMCA it is hard for LL to do anything, or at least to my knowledge they will not remove the content. Did you report the matter to the creator of the hair, and did she or he file a DMCA takedown request? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothGirl Demonia Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 Innula Zenovka wrote: GothGirl Demonia wrote: This was reported to LL, but without the creator actually file of a DMCA it is hard for LL to do anything, or at least to my knowledge they will not remove the content. Did you report the matter to the creator of the hair, and did she or he file a DMCA takedown request? I have sent this creator IM/NoteCard in the past about ripped off products from their store, Dont remember if I got a response I think I did but it has been long ago to actually remember right off hand. It is also hard to report this because they were Rez inside of a SandBox, and without actually having the item in my inventory, it would be hard to file a DMCA by the time LL would actually go there to remove it the content would be auto returned. The problem we currently face is that with a CopyBot you can save the XML file, get banned 1000X and come back with a new account each time just import it and give it away thousands of copies going around its hard to remove it all. This is one reason I am pushing to try to get LL to give us some verification when an account is created to prevent this. I am sure these hair's are likely new copies going around in a Box in Second Life somewhere, most likely in Freebie area's, or RP sims, but I haven't ran across them again yet to actually report or send a message to the creator about the new copies. I have seen some of his products BlackListed however, but new Cloned, or CopyBot versions are always being passed around and left in SandBox's and such like you can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Innula Zenovka wrote: GothGirl Demonia wrote: This was reported to LL, but without the creator actually file of a DMCA it is hard for LL to do anything, or at least to my knowledge they will not remove the content. Did you report the matter to the creator of the hair, and did she or he file a DMCA takedown request? I saw these hairs several months ago. A friend was given by a folder of them by a 'random person.' After examiming them the friend deleted them and I reported them with all the pertinenet information to the owner of Truth with both an IM and a notecard. It is possible that they already were aware of this but they never replied to my messages. We all know that Linden Lab is legally bound to act on properly filed DCMA's or they lose their safe harbor protections. There is no way that anyone could persuade me that LL would risk losing this. It would effectively shut Second Life down and open Linden Lab to lawsuits for facilitating IP infrigement. This is something that our self confessed hacker (and I can link back to the thread) seems unable to get through her brain. What also amazes me is how she is forever finding this stuff. In another thread she claimed to have collected over 4,000 copybotted items. Does she have any idea how incomprehensible that number is? Regarding Roberto whose blog she links to, most of us here are very aware of what happenned to him. I do feel bad for him because he seems to be a pretty nice fellow who is just trying to get on with his Second Life now. But much of what has happenned I hate to say he brought upon himself. He insisted on continuing to confront these "griefers' despite the advice of the community that he 'move on.' It was a war that we warned him he could not win. eta to correct a factual error Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothGirl Demonia Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 Perrie Juran wrote: Innula Zenovka wrote: GothGirl Demonia wrote: This was reported to LL, but without the creator actually file of a DMCA it is hard for LL to do anything, or at least to my knowledge they will not remove the content. Did you report the matter to the creator of the hair, and did she or he file a DMCA takedown request? I saw these hairs several months ago. A friend was given by a folder of them by a 'random person.' After examiming them the friend deleted them and I reported them with all the pertinenet information to the owner of Truth with both an IM and a notecard. It is possible that they already were aware of this but they never replied to my messages. We all know that Linden Lab is legally bound to act on properly filed DCMA's or they lose their safe harbor protections. There is no way that anyone could persuade me that LL would risk losing this. It would effectively shut Second Life down and open Linden Lab to lawsuits for facilitating IP infrigement. This is something that our self confessed hacker (and I can link back to the thread) seems unable to get through her brain. What also amazes me is how she is forever finding this stuff. In another thread she claimed to have collected over 4,000 copybotted items. Does she have any idea how incomprehensible that number is? Regarding Roberto whose blog she links to, most of us here are very aware of what happenned to him. I do feel bad for him because he seems to be a pretty nice fellow who is just trying to get on with his Second Life now. But much of what has happenned I hate to say he brought upon himself. He insisted on continuing to confront these "griefers' despite the advice of the community that he 'move on.' It was a war that we warned him he could not win. eta to correct a factual error http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWoDlHVpYzI Heres a better one how to create HUNDREDS OF GRIEFER Accounts and get away with it? The only part it doesn't show is the MAC/Hardware spoofing but every Botting griefers knows that part on how to do it, this just shows you why Linden Lab needs to add the verification like Google has tied to their accounts when you create one or something similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 GothGirl Demonia wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWoDlHVpYzI Heres a better one how to create HUNDREDS OF GRIEFER Accounts and get away with it? The only part it doesn't show is the MAC/Hardware spoofing but every Botting griefers knows that part on how to do it, this just shows you why Linden Lab needs to add the verification like Google has tied to their accounts when you create one or something similar. Shall I send you the links I have on how to create fake Google accounts and / or where you can buy them? You have no credibility here. And you have never answered the question how come you see stolen merchandise on a level that no one else here has ever seen. Oh, and I can use bold too. I CAN EVEN USE BOLD AND CAP LOCK AT THE SAME TIME. AREN'T I TALENTED? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syo Emerald Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 From seeing your profile....you must have something to attract those type of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothGirl Demonia Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 So basically what you are telling us is that EVERYONE who has been griefed inside of a welcome area has asked the griefer to come by and spawn graphics card crashers, or something. You are also telling me that The people who create content deserve to be Ripped off? Or that people should not care lol? How Come I see it the way I do? Because at least 3 of these people who get ripped off constantly are on my friends list??? Also how about the fact that LL is not adding verification for another to help prevent the griefing? If I am right in the past they at least had email verification in place, now they do not. You have no credibility here.??? Maybe I don't care? Also could say the same for you or worse winks. Maybe you are a Grie**** or worse heh. Honestly I do not believe all the people who are getting griefed at welcome area's deserve it, I know its a hot spot, and I know SandBox is a hot spot itself for griefer attacks, but what do you want, do you want every user who was in the area chatting with their friends just to take off and leave the area because a griefer shows up? Do you honestly think a griefer will leave the area just because the person doesnt respond? Well as an experience in Knowing Bots, and Griefers, you have your griefer that will get bored, then you have people with serious A.D.D, and worse like me who just DONT give a F***** and will grief the living hell out of you non stop 24/7 until you come to terms that simple. Griefing can be a many number of things including posting on the internets, but what I use the term that I grief, it is simply standing up to Griefers who grief first, and not leaving the area because that is what they want. Some griefers get bored and move on some don't ever even been inside of a RAID in Second Life griefing someone else before, because if not I doubt you even know what its like or how people even use comms when they grief, and how they come back 20 seconds later to spit in your face? As for the comment about my profile. No one hardly ever griefs me at all, and when they decide to then they get their a** handed to them that simple. The problem I am having is the attack on the General Public, such as our welcome area's friends are getting griefed and no they are not attracting these griefers. Same thing with the SandBox. Generally I never have a problem with Griefers, and when I do dealing with them on my lands is simple, the only thing a griefer can do is. 1. Grief someone elses sim using my name. 2. Spread propaganda or lies. 3. File False Abuse Reports. 4. The worst they can do is cause drama and problems and get other people on their side to help them thats about it. And hey its all been done before not much they can do beyond that. Anyways I am off going to play Dark Fall awhile and grief some people on there who deserve it lol. (Asset Damage) Woot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuffinUnsane1488303563 Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Dude, I think you really need to just calm down. Using bold and capslock doesn't make your point more important. It makes you look like a blustering windbag. Or a spam e-mail. Greifers and copybots are a problem. But you know what? I highly doubt LL gives a flying hoot about most cases. Or most anything that goes on in Second Life these days. So taking it to the forums really does little. If you want to make more of a case, take it to the highest rank you can. Instead of just spamming the users of the forums. I've been griefed plenty of times in sandboxes. I just learned to put it aside and try to find a quiet place to work. And I did. Honestly, just take a nice deep breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 GothGirl Demonia wrote: So basically what you are telling us is that EVERYONE who has been griefed inside of a welcome area has asked the griefer to come by and spawn graphics card crashers, or something. You are also telling me that The people who create content deserve to be Ripped off? Or that people should not care lol? Nope, I absolutely did not say that. But if someone goes and plays in traffic the way you like to, eventually you're going to get hit by a car. Your own words: "You collected over 4,000 copybot items" "You hacked Steam and played their games." So don't cry to us and complain that you have been banned or griefed. I neither condone nor support griefing or copybotting. And I'll report it when I see it. But one of the things is I read the Forums pretty thoroughly. And some how you claim to have seen more individually than the rest of the active Forumites all put together have seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothGirl Demonia Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 Perrie Juran wrote: GothGirl Demonia wrote: So basically what you are telling us is that EVERYONE who has been griefed inside of a welcome area has asked the griefer to come by and spawn graphics card crashers, or something. You are also telling me that The people who create content deserve to be Ripped off? Or that people should not care lol? Nope, I absolutely did not say that. But if someone goes and plays in traffic the way you like to, eventually you're going to get hit by a car. Your own words: "You collected over 4,000 copybot items" "You hacked Steam and played their games." So don't cry to us and complain that you have been banned or griefed. I neither condone nor support griefing or copybotting. And I'll report it when I see it. But one of the things is I read the Forums pretty thoroughly. And some how you claim to have seen more individually than the rest of the active Forumites all put together have seen. Yes between the year of 2009, and 2010 I think it was or something I was given Thousands of stolen items, Hairs, Skins, Clothing you name it, lots of it was identified and reported to the creators of the content. All the rest which ended up being Multiple Copies of the same hair, but containing another asset ID because it was CopyBot again by someone else was reported to Linden Lab. We each have our own ways of doing things, this was my way at trying to get as much content as I could removed for DMCA and by LL. While a lot of it was removed, in late 2010, or 2011 I dont even remember now I was griefed by a person whose account was from 2007 and got banned by Linden Lab in which I was told to Delete all the content immediately from my inventory, and so it was deleted. Linden Lab, or the linden However said if I stumble on any of it again, snapshot it or whatever but make sure I do not keep it in my inventory afterwards. Keep in mind this is on the same account I play today. Yes I support hacking. There is nothing wrong with hacking, modifying files, games, cracking games, or anything of the such. In fact I support it more now than ever because of what STEAM has done forcing people to accept new TERMS of service or forefeit all games they have purchased on their account if they don't. If people actually do not or have not purchased a license to their game, and they illegally pirate it without buying it and get caught then so be it its not my problem. Keep in mind that hacking in my eyes is a skill, not a crime. It is what you do with the skill that tells if it is bad or not like stealing another persons account, phishing, Spyware Links, or such. Even Google for that matter is bad like this person on YouTube posting phishing links which track peoples SL alts on his videos, and these other people posting Fake Gard Generators for MMORPG games which are supposed to give you free Diamonds or cash, but give you a Trojan, or a virus, and YouTube gives no way to report such for removal. Now this is the bad type of hacks, or hacking things I will not support. Oh yes another thing is I pointed out how vulnurable STEAM games are to cracking on their own forum a couple of days ago I dropped some hints to the staff along with some other suggestions and guess what? The moderator edited the post to cover up this because its bad for their company lol so now I am going to spread the word to some big game companies and on the internets a bit more. Yes its good that you say you do not support such, and will report it I am all for you there, and speaking of such I logged into ahern today and Saw a swarm of lindens, sims crashing all around me, and people wearing botted stuff from 2 creators I know they ripped it themselves. I am pushing for LL to add some type of verification to protect residents more and help prevent the abuse of alternate accounts. Telephone Verification is good the one with the automated calling system, and other methods of verification too such as credit card, Require RL information when signing up is great too, but LL doesn't. I understand the good thing of remaining anonymous, and some people do not like to give out too much information or such. But having a peaceful Second Life without all these griefers is worth a little bit of trouble in my eyes. Generally I do not do forums much either because forums end in Debates, but I have been around for quite awhile to see all the griefing, and even seen things I will not talk about on these forums for that matter. As for getting griefed. I will flip on my other computer and people don't like what that happens especially them griefers because they know they are done for, as for gettinb banned from SL. This is still my frist account, i doubt that I will be getting banned any time soon, and even if that did happen right now the way it is with Second Life there is no such thing as a ban you get banned you make a new account with new hardware info, and new IP that simple rite. And I am pretty sure LL would rather keep a collar on me than to have me running loose as a little dropping meteors from the sky lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 You can rationalize all you want. Hacking is cheating because you are giving yourself an unfair advantage over other players and breaking rules doing it. Hacking is no better than copybotting, which is just another form of hacking the system to cheat. The reason you lack credibility is you are a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothGirl Demonia Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 Amethyst Jetaime wrote: You can rationalize all you want. Hacking is cheating because you are giving yourself an unfair advantage over other players and breaking rules doing it. Hacking is no better than copybotting, which is just another form of hacking the system to cheat. The reason you lack credibility is you are a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I guess its a matter of opinion then. To me there are good things that come from the skill of Hacking it depends on what you are thinking about though. Generally you got a few different types of hats. First, You have the so called Hackers aka people who come into your game like Call OF Duty and they have to cheat the game with a program like an Aimbot, Generally game companies call this gacking, or modifying the client, and yes I agree this type of thing is bad I absolutely hate online game cheaters. Second, Then you have The hacking which we all know about like breaking into computers destroying other peoples lives stealing accounts, phishing, this is another bad one. Third, Then you have the (Cracker), or the person who cracks software, or games, people call it hacking as well at times, aka the person who hacks a game or software to put it on that pirate site for example. To me this lies in between the lines of the CopyBot for example. Lets say I own a game from 1998 I lost my serial number to that game, the company no longer exists, and I need to crack it to play it again one of my favorite games, I would have to hack, or crack the game. Then there are other uses for cracking games like you purchase it on Steam for example, and no longer want to play it on steam so you decide to crack it to run off of steam. Generally these are the type of hacks that do people no harm, I don't mind the people who do it. Fourth, Then you got people like George Hotz with SONY, he did nothing but modify his own PS3, and look what SONY did to the kid SUED him for modifying his own PS3 to do what he wanted with it. But as we all know they didn't have much fun after they pissed off the Black Hats aka the 30 days of lulz. Generally HardWare hackers are not bad like for modifying Nintendo Games, PS3, Xbox, or even Computer Hardware, Cellphone Ipad's you name it, you are doing something you want your device to do, and if you can do it whats so wrong with it. This is the way I see things. Fifth, Then you got people like me, I am not so much of a Black Hat, while I know people who know other people who do serious types of business, I like to point out problems with Software, Beta Test games, find bugs in software such as reporting to game companies, pointing out the flaws where Linden Lab should verify to prevent griefers for one, and other things between the lines. On the other hand when people make me angry that is when they have to worry, and I am talking about serious business. Griefers for example some people think they can stomp on me in SL yet they have tried oh boy I would love to pull out the picture collection I have of griefers. Well guess what them griefers got stomped back on bad, I am generally the type of person who will stop at nothing to get a revenge when I go on a killing spree unless the dispute is resolved peacefully face to face, and agreed to otherwise consider it war, sometimes this can be in Second Life, sometimes it might be in another SandBox title, and believe me I have a few haters even outside SL, some new enemies, but soon they will be taught the way of the kitty they think we are weak now but just wait we will grow stronger... I am also the type of people who will actually Cheat Back at cheaters, bend rules, use rules to my advantge, and screw over enemies at any cost, and believe me I have my minions and my ways of doing such some people are too blind to see until its too late. ( I am not talking all about Second Life Here BTW.) On the good side I am a nice little kitty that likes to chill, cuddle, enjoy SL, or other games, chat with clan members, hang out around clubs, and sometimes design small things that I actually can create for friends. Now about the CopyBot.. If you made a cube in world, and I could actually Copy the cube from you, I am not Stealing from you, I am just taking a copy of it. Of course I would not agree because to me the way I see it its a fact of stealing. In my mind and the way I see it profiting, or spreading content of other creators at least knowingly Harms their business, and their Real Life income something that I would not want to see happen to the SL grid for the most part. Now there are those that I could careless about, but they are people who used spyware systems against the community, and will not learn from their mistakes. Will I harm them myself (NO) but I just wouldn't care as much. Not all cheating is bad. Maybe in your eyes Cheating, and Hacking are bad, it really depeonds on the situation and like 90% of the times you are right its gaining an unfair advantage in any game of service and like unfair. This is the type of cheating everyone hears about and I agree its not a good thing I could do without cheaters in games. But then to me in my eyes there are reasons to cheat. I do not mean to encourage people to break LL TOS, CS, or any games Terms OR Use, but sometimes in my eyes It can be a great thing to have the ability to Cheat, or Hack in some terms because you can go back in the game and seriously ruin a griefers LULZ Spree without the worry of getting banned on a Forum or service for example. There are times however when such can be highly abused, but it depends on the way you see things, and at the same time you always have to question your actions and have a just reason to do them before doing it otherwise you could do something that harms a lot of people for that matter, or something far too worse. For example you never want to bring RL Threats into things I mean a person could but it wouldn't end good for them legally thats where they can get you. Cats and Hats yo.When it comes down to it there are many opinions on the matter they is good uses, and there are evil uses for the skill of Hacking, or Cheating. ( Linden Lab knows they need to do something to plug the hole with all these griefers ability to create a massive number accounts without verification.) If they can do this which they can it would help improve and decreate the number of griefers greatly. Oh yes and I forget that the term Hacking on certain things is also now known as Jail Breaking. When it comes down to Data, and Software agreements, I am sure that 90% +of computer users have actually broke an agrement today when installing software and if they actually did a lawsuit off these they would be rich. In fact It is just a bunch of 0's and 1's so why does it matter anyways? Some see piracy as bad, I see it is between the line Do what you think is right, Don't get into trouble, Dont harm others, and no harm done. In other words if you are going to pirate or crack something make sure you have a reason like you lost your serial key, you actually paid for the software, or wanted to do a skin mod or something, or make sure that it goes so far back that you can no longer find it in any store and have a hard time obtaining it, then you can do it at your own risk. This has nothing to do with the CopyBot but what I am saying is there are legit uses for Torrents for that matter. Take Nexus MODS for example. A Company that support modifications to games like FallOut, and Skyrim, these game companies do not support third party hacks, mods, or cheats, but people are free to use them I would generally say that the word Hacking/Cheating is not always a bad thing as its a skill, using it to gain an unfair advantage is not right, but there are times and places when such is a great thing. Legally I would say this isn't right under actual LAW, but as you know on the internet, even on YouTube there is no stopping piracy, cheating, or hacking even the bad and unfair. Even right now as I type anything YouTube is scamming TeenAgers searching for Free Diamonds/Real Money trading for MMO's and putting links to phishing/trojan's on youtube keygens which are scams, but who is stopping it. The answer is no one not even GOOGLE is removing them, or giving me an option to report. Oh yes and last but not least. I have watched the MMO Industry on its decline, I have actually told these companies how to fix their mistakes and keep their games making more profit, but did they listen or fix the bugs on release... Nope, and now as the result they are all on the decline and loosing customers left and right LOL.Ignorance is so EVIL so to speak of with 2012 games needing better managers, to me its just a generation of uneducated kids trying to design and run a MMORPG = Massive Failure. 2005 and before it wasn't as bad as today in my opnion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syo Emerald Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 Hope you get banned and griefed....I have the sense that you seek the trouble and that you deserve it. You think you have more rights than anybody else, more knowledge of things you absolutly can't have any and last but not least you start to cry when someone is unfair too you (or looks like to be unfair in your own tiny world). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 GothGirl Demonia wrote: Yes I support hacking. [...] Keep in mind that hacking in my eyes is a skill, not a crime. Actually, hacking requires knowledge, not skill. Hacking is often a crime. Someone quoted you as claiming to have hacked Steam. That's a crime. Anyone who supports hacking, other than for legitimate purposes such as finding hacks for owners, is wrong in their head - present company included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar Legion Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 I'll be blunt and brief here: Enough is enough. Linden Lab is not going to listen to you, they're not ging to enact any of the "security precautions" you believe Second Life should have, they are only ging to do what is legally required of them to remain in business - be it here or in the many countries they have customers in. No, you don't have any credibility - not when you accuse anyone who disagrees with you of possibly being a griefer or enabling griefers. That tactic alone makes your thoughts and opinions on the matter utterly worthless. You don't like the way Linden Lab operates? Cancel your account. All you're doing here is making yourself look like a foolish and spoiled prat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryJane Sunshine Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 All of your hats are bad no matter how you slice it. 1. Agreed, They are using something to gain an unfair advantage in combat. Usually because of poor skills in the first place. 2. Agreed, but there are a few groups that hack for "awareness only" to show a flaw with-in a system. 3. Disagree, there are still methods of obtaining legitimate copies of older games. Although they don't effect others with it, they are non the less stealing. 4. Disagree, Modifying an exisiting product to do something it was not intended to do is wrong again. Once again you are stealing in a way because you're using a different product as a means to use a product that you did not purchase. 5. You have very skewed views on these issues and although in general I'd love to agree with what you're trying to promote... LL stepping up and doing what they should to protect their customers from people who laugh at the ability to use this game as a tool to create havoc and misery... I can't agree with the presentation/information you're writing beyond that simple fact. For the large majority of people who use the internet, there's really no good reason to cheat, hack, or steal. Some people can still look at themselves in the mirror every morning somehow, even after doing what they do with anonymity in a virtual setting, things they've convinced themselves it's okay to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiffy Vella Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I answered this in another forum recently, and have the same to say here. It's rare. Griefing is actually really rare, unless you are a newb and get taken to the wrong places, or if you decide, as an oldishbe to hang out at welcome centres, or if you go looking for it. I have never been given copybotted items, except twice in 5.5 years. Once on my land, a folder of skins, soon deleted. The other time, some stuff popped into a nasty copy of Stroker's sex-gen machine (no fault of Stroker), also deleted. Griefing just doesn't happen that much, and if it does, just tell the people who can do anything about it (like, the Lindens). We can't, although we may fruitlessly sympathise, and many, within rights will not be so patient. Almost nobody here would ever support griefing or content theft. But we can't actually do anything about it. It frustrates us when people want us to help, but we can't, because we are not Lindens. We are just people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothGirl Demonia Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 Tiffy Vella wrote: I answered this in another forum recently, and have the same to say here. It's rare. Griefing is actually really rare, unless you are a newb and get taken to the wrong places, or if you decide, as an oldishbe to hang out at welcome centres, or if you go looking for it. I have never been given copybotted items, except twice in 5.5 years. Once on my land, a folder of skins, soon deleted. The other time, some stuff popped into a nasty copy of Stroker's sex-gen machine (no fault of Stroker), also deleted. Griefing just doesn't happen that much, and if it does, just tell the people who can do anything about it (like, the Lindens). We can't, although we may fruitlessly sympathise, and many, within rights will not be so patient. Almost nobody here would ever support griefing or content theft. But we can't actually do anything about it. It frustrates us when people want us to help, but we can't, because we are not Lindens. We are just people. Well yeah if I stay on my own land in Second Life, I usually never have a problem with griefers because they know if they come there that I know how to handle myself and for the most part what will happen if they come there. Generally I go to Welcome Areas just to meet people, but instead I go to a welcome area and I hear people talking about how they CopyBot stuff on Voice chat, and suddenly after awhile like 5 Lindens show up and all the welcome area's start to get crashed or something, but sure enough they were all wearing stolen items, and I don't even want to be around that in a welcome area. Same thing with the SandBox I go there sometimes because I have work that needs to be done script editing/testing, or building something sometimes just go to find people, see if any friends are there or people ive known of since I don't log on much and bam sure enough a Cache of stolen content sitting there on the sim. The way I see it, I want " Second Life" as a MMORPG, or SandBox Tile/Simulator whatever you call it to be a safe place where people can all feel welcome, not a place of hate and griefing, or Theft. I want people to actually visit welcome area's without the fear that people are going to be wearing a graphics card crasher, or visiting a SandBox with the fear they are going to get griefed because its so common. I do however understand there are private SandBox regions, and that there are other Welcome Area hubs that griefers do not visit/grief as much, but then again as a consumer who pays and puts cash into " Second Life" I feel that somethings needs to be done by Linden Lab to limit how griefers can just keep making accounts over and over again as I have shown. ---- OFF TOPIC---- As for some peoples feelings about hacking because people still debate it, and someone started a topic change earlier );. My view on Hacking, or Cheating is simple. To me hacking is a skill, but since someone said hacking is Knowledge that is true too it requires knowledge to know how to do something like Hotz who hacked the PS3 not to harm others. There are many definitions of the word Hack, and to me not all hacks, or cracking is bad depending what you are doing with it, and if it will harm others. For example my favorite type of hack is modifying game software like Skyrm, Fall Out, or even some MMO titles like adding custom skins in Tera Online like the Bikini MOD for example, or such. It doesn't harm anyone, but in the EULA it is a banable offense, did I get banned absolutely not because it really didn't give me an unfair advantage or anything to cheat other players with, while I know how to cheat or hack almost any online game to gain an unfair advantage like Aimbotting, or memory hacks its not my type of thing as this is known as hacking, or cheating, and not something I would support. The other thing is the matter of hacking steam, There are a lot of hacks out there for games on Steam, there is wrong things to do like pirate games, and things that I wouldn't mind at all such as if you preorder a game predownload it and then Crack the game to play it without Steam open so you are not caught, and play it before its release, You paid for the game, you broke the TOS true, but you did not harm anyone. Things like cracking old games that no one even cares about or illegal copies I generally don't care sometimes it is hard to get hold of old games like Battle Toads for the NES, but even speaking of that Emulators like for the NES consoles are illegal but I have one I just have a collection of a lot of NES games I actually paid for back in the day because my NES quit working so I have a big collection of ROM files. Generally no one cares no harm done the way I see things. Lets not forget some very old PC games which companies no longer exist or no longer even sell copies yet hard to find on even ebay or amazon or such. These are the times when I don't see things so much as piracy. People will be like but its illegal still. Technically under LAW it is still illegal, but used wisely, and not doing stupid things chances are you will never get found never get banned if you are smart about it. Hell my Steam account just FYI is still in Good Standing because I have never hacked, or cheated an online gamek, just messed with games like GMod, modified a bunch fo single player games with mods and such, or cracked some games to run without steam games I already own but didn't see why I needed steam for it. Generally I would say. Its not my problem what people want to do in any game they own, if people want to do a bunch of piracy and pirate thousands of movies a month, games or software, or crack games illegal they do not own or have not bought then they get caught its their own problem not mine. The only thing that ever concerns me really is a Cheat, or a Hack, that can ruin or destroy an online game such as Aimbotting, Memory hacking to gain unfair advantages, or such things like CopyBot in Second Life. While I understand the CopyBot itself can do a lot of good things and has some pretty neat functions the problem I see is people Abuse it to harm other residents who are here to create and get paid, even those developers who made lots of products and donated a lot of it to a childrens hospital they came into the game ripped them off for the laughs and started a blog about them laughing for laughs nothing more. To me it was pretty sad that they would do such. The way I see illegal viewers is simple. Don't ask don't tell, Don't Harm other creators, or in other words Don't Steal, and chances are you won't find yourself in trouble. Although you are supposed to follow the LL TOS, and I would say this is all at your own risk. I do not support the griefing, Hacking, or Cheating/harm to other residents. The reason my views are a bit different in Second Life compared to seeing a person using an automated Bot in GuildWars 2, or using an Aimbot in Counter Strike for example is because SL was made open sourced, LL Could always remake their client, and blacklist all viewers from connecting, then add secure authintication if they wanted to, but doing such would destroy like all third party based viewers, and lots of customers would likely quit. The only thing I agree with right now, is adding some type of protection against griefers making repeat accounts to do nothing but grief. Requirement of RL information like very MMORPG on the market does today would be good, even secure verification such as Phone verification, or such would be good enough to stop quite a bit or at least slow them down. Here are some examples. This is the type of cheating/Hacking I do not support. This is the type of hack I support, because it doesn't harm people now does it? Get the most for your money.http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hack The defintion of Hack. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_(computer_security) The defintion of the hats * Generally the kind that seriously break the LAW.* I love BOT's in General, and API's They have so many Great Uses, but very few games actually support them like EVE Online, or DarkFall, or General Second Life Bots, not talking about the CopyBot, but bots with acutal uses can be great. I am sure people are like WT* you are crazy, you are Stupid, We do not agree with you, and everyone has their own opinion on these types of things.And while there are many License/Software/EULA/TOS Agreements Hack, or modify even if its just a Video Game Characters Skin is doing it at your own risk, but as I said don't harm others or cheat actual online games to gain an unfair advantage generally no one cares at that point. I mean how many gamers actually read the full TOS when they download and play a game. How many people do Open Beta Testing, and actually read the Non disclosure agreement. I am quite sure a lot of people often just hit I accept. http://www.pcpitstop.com/spycheck/eula.asp Yeah heres one. http://www.measuringusability.com/blog/eula.php In general the most that I have ever had happen to me in 12 years is being banned from a online game, but shortly after that company went down the drain anyways I danced on their grave, with that said Generally I am a rebel I debate these agreements unless I sign them in person when I purchase my game at the store and agree to it because if i don't then should they actually come at me legally I debate it legally and I mean hard. But for the most part 12 years or more common sense generally keeps you safe in any online game, you never really get into trouble in fact I can't remember the last time I was ever banned from any online game except like 9 years ago if I remember correctly. This doesn't include game suspensions from Gamers First because of a Igorant clan that decided to grief me in their SandBox title, but I paid them back hardcore after they got me suspended and I mean serious payback trolling lets just say their clan doesnt exist anymore neither does their site, didn't do anything illegal, but I exposed whom they were in the community, and called in some friends/trolls. The only other problems I have had is suspension from SL or in cases of griefing been perma banned, but playing cards correctly I came back because LL was able to see that it wasn't me who did the griefing especially last time them griefers laughed on their little blog about how they got me gone from SL. But Nope I returned didn't get your wish. One thing I will comment about however is the Hats. When Sony as a company got compromized by those Hats the kind who actually break the LAW whoever they are, In my mind I was thinking even after being a customer of sony and having my information stolen Justice has been served, I litterly was so happy. Because of what they did to this kid who unlocked the PS3 and Lawsuits just because they were a rich company. Today I don't Trust sony in the world of gaming they make so many mistakes and I will wait to see if PlanetSide 2 is epic or epic fail, I know that with NCsoft closing down COH that DCUO could be a big hit if they made some serious changes to the game but to me right now it feels like a failure. I am glad that even if I ever purchased a Ps3 that I would likely be able to unlock, or modify it, even my XBOX 360 modified to run faster with Liquid Cooling MMMM I would love that if I did console gaming and could do some of it at least thanks to a lot of people like Hotz in some ways. As for myself I am mostly good at Hack of hardware like modify or custom fitting stuff but can learn exploits, tricks, cheats, and do software to a certain point just not so much of a code writer aka a script kitty :3 but I know others who know others who can write code. But hey if you want to talk conspiracy. Then lets talk about the world of Virtual Trading, Items and gold in MMORPG's being sold for real cash, conspiracy says that the game companies are actually behind some of this themselves to make more profit. With this all said I am sure there will be a lot of TL:DR but don't care because its my ADHD, or kitty going insane hour and I am bored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Someone said that you claimed to have hacked Steam and played their games. If what that sounds like is true, you stole from Steam, and that's a crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothGirl Demonia Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 Phil Deakins wrote: Someone said that you claimed to have hacked Steam and played their games. If what that sounds like is true, you stole from Steam, and that's a crime. This one dude keeps posting about how I hacked Steam, and such. First, Steam was hacked as in accounts were compromised, and information don't remember exactly all the details but this happend in 2012. http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml No absolutely I had no part in hacking steam because this is something that goes way beyond what I believe in. However I did state that it is possible to (Hack Steam) to obtain copies of games illegally, but doesn't involve actually compromising servers, this was comparing Second Life to the security of Steam encryption which ultimately is a failure. Back years ago there was a patch as shown on YouTube that allowed you to patch certain steam .dll files and illegally download games that you did not own and play them. The problem with this however is that by using the hack you are downloading from steam servers. While it does no harm to the actual company or any person the problem is that if you are caught which it is likely that Steam has anti piracy checks in place and start downloading games you do not have in your library your IP is logged and you would be into trouble legally. This is a hack that has been advertised on YouTube, and Google search for years now. I will not provide links to this because its illegal but searching it I am sure its around still, I would not advise it though as a lot of these cracks cotain keyloggers, and trojans or worse. The other type of hack is PIRACY, but its not so much of hacking. There is a way to Download a Steam file such as Red Faction Armageddon, or any steam game setup package from the internet other than steam such as Torrents, and then there is a seperate program which is made in russia I will not give the name of it which allows you to decrypt and install any steam game that you can not install without steam. For example when you go to Game Stop and buy a disc, and then it asks you to install steam you can instead of installing steam bypass it with an emulation client decrypt the steam file and play the game with a crack without Steam. This is generally not hacking however, it is a hack, because you modify the steam file, but you are not actually hacking a server you are tricking your client into thinking you bought the games and STEAM as a client was flawed and allowed users to download the game however you can get caught easily and banned I am sure of that much. There are however limits where you can't play the games like Modern Warfare or any games online though. Yes piracy is something I don't support because it hurts the game companies. What I was trying to say however is that Steam Encryptionsucks because every time they release a hot game like Mass Effect 3 it is possible to pirate the game and play it without Steam, because some companies like Bethesda are require users to use Steam because they say it helps with piracy when they are dead wrong. Some type of hacks I do not care about because they do not hurt anyone however it does violate the Steam TOS. If a person actually goes to GameStop and pays $50 for a new game installs it such as Skyrim, and doesn't want to download steam to play it so they use a crack, or crack it after they paid for it I have no problem with it because they paid for that copy of the software they can do whatever they want with it as far as I am concerned. Another thing is playing games before they are actually released if a person chooses to crack a game and play it I am fine with it considering that they actually purchased the game and they have 4 days before it is released, as Steam does preload games. Some people actually do this, and personally as long as they are not stealing or piracy then legally they are not really breaking the LAW just the Terms OF Service, and the most that can really happen or will happen is a ban if they get caught or do it wrong. I doubt legal action would be taken because a person palyed a game 4 days earlier before its actual release if they can prove they paid for it. My view on this is Do it at your own risk. This information: can easily be found on Google Search, or YouTube, and thats the funny thing about it. Piracyis illegal however YouTube has tons of videos of how to crack software programs, and from there all it takes is braincells. Not only does it contain this, but lots of fake videos with piracy involved, or Stealing of virtual MMO currency have keyloggers, virsuses, and Trojans, and YouTube is owned by GOOGLE, so why they don't give us as community the option to report such videos and get it removed is beyond me and I sent GOOGLE a FAX complaining about such recently and a phone call. Also if you go on YouTube and look up shop lifting videos based on Real Life there are many ways to ShopLift including having friends work at a register to activate GiftCards for you, doing this yourself, and things like working stocking shelves giving out information for inside Jobs, even swapping BarCodes to fool Walmart workers on $500 Televisions, which can be quite simple if done properly I will not give details on how because its illegal but I know of many methods of theft in Real Life, even ways to trick stores and such. Speaking of theft on Steam for example, you are really not Stealing anything as there is nothing to steal, yes its illegal because the virtual assets are worth something, but even if you could download the game from steam the download is actually on a public accessable server just not the key to actually play the game which somehow is encrypted to each account I believe or stored in an account file containing all the users games. Technically this could be Hacked, but its not something I support in any way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7seOlegcOis What can I say people will make all kinds of claims without backing it up unless they misread something I said, or I typed something the wrong way. There are many types of hacking some of which include piracy, or stealing and breaking the LAW, others are just against a companies TOS, but may or may not cause harm to other people, and these are the kinds of hacks that are actually great as I have said to all the people who debate that hacks are all bad when hacks can simply mean that a person modified their Skyrim folder for example to change their Skin or something in any game that doesn't exactly support it. I mean before Steam Workshop even existed I was using third party tools to modify my Skyrim game, and as we all know skyrim isn't a multiplayer game, and YES I do own the game I did not pirate it. As for stealing from steam. Not sure where that came from unless I mistyped something or someone didn't understand what I am saying. My general point is comparing MMORPG and Game companies of Today to Second Life and how LL for example has very bad verification because they are not verifying the accounts created, and therefore griefers, and CopyBot users are able to create thousands of accounts to do nothing but bot and grief with. I myself do not get griefed much, but often after joining an RP group such as when I played BL for awhile back like over a year ago now, It was fun, but then it turned into horror when a CopyBotter came into our group with some of their friends started handing out stolen content and not doing nothing about it. Damn right I protested it, they kicked me from the group and still supported the people doing it, What did Linden Lab do, nothing. There was a couple of other incidents as well happend similar ways with a Botter in another popular sim where the actual owner of the sims is backing up these other people because they have been there for a long time and accusing me of griefing when the griefer is there right now as I write this CopyBotting most likely, and it has been proven that their Staff, have been both abusive, broken their own rules, and much more, but again Linden Lab does nothing because this persons account is from 2006, and they are well known, plus even their sims are listed in the areas that advertise RolePlay for new players and on SL AD's or whatever you call that. What really makes me angry is the ignorance of people in Second Life having to actually do with theft, but that what could be done about it is more protection being given by Linden Lab to help verify accounts being made for not being griefer accounts like by phone number or such when an account is created. I do not expect Second Life to be a perfect Simulator, or MMORPG, but I am saying that it could be a lot better, and yes the SL community as a whole could take care of itself, and I give thanks to the People who actually have been working hard trying to prevent such griefing, such as just residents reporting griefers in SandBox regions because they like to hang there, and Sim Owners who actually care. But then there are those who Don't Care, and support griefers and those are the people that absolutely make me sick because they work with these griefers, maybe they are just that stupid I don't know, but personally I will keep calling them out, and I hope they sooner or later are gone from the SL community because they do not need to be here. And these are only like two out of the three incidents I have been personally somewhat been involved in as a player that has actually brought problems to me as a player in SL. There have been many times when I have seen people discussing how they illegally cloned items in a Welcome Area, and they will Copy all they want and don't care, or even a couple of small shops I was at before where some shoppers came out and said We don't care if its Copy Botted or not we will wear it anyways. I have seen it a lot, and to me its just very disturbing it makes me want to reach out and punch these people in their face really hard. I dunno maybe I overreact but this is how I am and how much it makes me angry to see such. To be honest I used to once be a Dummy who knew absolutely nothing about Piracy, or Second Life theft in any way, but then some people opend my eyes, I found myself wearing stolen hair too and skin at one point, I had no idea, and all of it just changed for me now I do everything to try and make sure I stay legit and away from this stuff, and I don't even want to see stolen stuff near me because it just makes me rage especially when I have to see it come from someone I know, and I know a lot of them people who I see getting ripped off and its no fun because I know they may not be loosing anything because its a digital asset, but I know that the piracy of their products is causing them to loose money, and I mean come on 150 L$ per hair seriously. If you can't afford $4.16 USD for 1000 L$ then you shouldn't be in Second Life, and how do you even have access to an internet connection unless you are using FREE WI-FI, better yet how did you even get access to a computer. Also I do have a steam account, it has never been VAC banned and always remained in good standing for over 5 years. I also have not actually hacked games or stolen from Steam as someone claims all my games have been purchased on steam. ( Generally I wait until most games are on sale too . However I have modded some of my games like Skyrim, or Hack, as in changed skins of my characters on games like Xblades, and other single player games I have played on steam, or sometimes fixed games to run without having to use steam on my other computer because steam tends to use over 16mb of ram and on LapTop that can get ugly. Hopefully this solves some of what I have talked about, and for the record, I posted how bad Steam Encryption really was on their own forum, and pointed it out at one of my posts, the result was a moderator edited the post, I didn't get banned or warned, but they covered it up because game companies like BioWare, or Bethesada might remove steam requirements from future games, at least thats the way I see it. The only reason they actually required steam anyways was to protect their games from piracy and it just doesn't work you see, it actually makes game piracy 100X easier, sure they might make more profit in allowing Steam sales so maybe it doesn't matter I know steam beyond piracy is great, I absolutely love being able to just download and play games without going over to GameStop saves me time and money when the games go on sale. I do however wish more games supported steam like physical copies bought at Game Stop, but also allowed users who do not accept steam's TOS/EULA to play it without steam as well it would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 GothGirl Demonia wrote: Phil Deakins wrote: Someone said that you claimed to have hacked Steam and played their games. If what that sounds like is true, you stole from Steam, and that's a crime. This one dude keeps posting about how I hacked Steam, and such. Shall I post the link back to the thread and your statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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