Others Facelights ruining your SL experience?

[Dana Hickman]

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

saying someone doesn't get a free pass standing on someone elses land and embarrassing them in public chat is kind of taking it a bit too far don't you think?that is griefing someone..

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No, calling someone out because they are KNOWINGLY affecting everyone elses SL experience in a negative way is not griefing, nor harrassment.. it's highlighting a griefing that's already taking place. No different than a club host (or anyone.. really) telling people how to disable particles during an attack of flying Bill Cosbys. Yes, it's supposed to be embarrasing, maybe they'd get a clue then. Just because something isn't specifically against the rules doesn't make it ok to just go hog-wild with it, not when it affects so many others that have just as many rights (and more en masse) to NOT be affected by the misuse.

[Ceka Cianci]

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Dana Hickman wrote:

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

saying someone doesn't get a free pass standing on someone elses land and embarrassing them in public chat is kind of taking it a bit too far don't you think?that is griefing someone..

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No, calling someone out because they are KNOWINGLY affecting everyone elses SL experience in a negative way is not griefing, nor harrassment.. it's highlighting a griefing that's already taking place. No different than a club host (or anyone.. really) telling people how to disable particles during an attack of flying Bill Cosbys. Yes, it's supposed to be embarrasing, maybe they'd get a clue then. Just because something isn't specifically against the rules doesn't make it ok to just go hog-wild with it, not when it affects so many others that have just as many rights (and more en masse) to NOT be affected by the misuse.

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sorry but i guess we are gonna disagree on this..

if you are working at the club getting a lot of complaints about it and are in the position to be laying down the law ya if IM's have failed..

but just seeing someone out of the blue on someone else's land that you are visiting as well and not even sure everyone else is seeing the same thing you are..then aiming to just embarrass them in chat.

that is harassing someone..because you don't even know yet if they can see it or not..because you went straight for the gun rather than just deciding to ask them if they knew they had a blinding facelight on..

it could have been put in some hat they bought or jacket or even be wearing some hair that has one with it..

you just assume they knowingly have one on and everyone can see it and everyone knows they are wearing one that is blinding everyone else..and that they visit these forums to know they are such a pain in the ass to everyone else..because as long as i have been in sl ..i never hear anyone getting reemed over a facelight..but i hear how bad they are in here..

saying there is no excuse when there is plenty of room for it is bull..not everyone even a lot of the older ones are at the top of their game on what some may think is ethical law to live by for others..

if it's not  against the land owners rules or the TOS to use those..but giving other people a hard time is..you may want to recheck where the griefing is coming from..because not everyone is running around with the same settings..

as i said before..harassment is something that is against the TOS..where having something that is allowed on the grid is not against it..

one sure thing and a maybe won't get you two sure things..

educating them rather than harassing them would be a much better approach i would think..because as i said..they may not even know they are doing something that is pissing people off..

in something like this not everyone will know they are doing it..

so why set yourself up for an AR?as AR happy as people are..it's bound to happen..and it would suck if it stuck..

 

 

 

[Penny Patton]

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Dana Hickman wrote:

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Griffin Ceawlin wrote:

*checks the time and waits for the rest of the Anti-Facelight Brigade to show up, because we absolutely need another ten-page thread about them*

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No Griffin, I wear a respecful facelight and I'm part of the Anti-self-entitlement / Anti-general-disrespect-for-others brigade. People who treat others as if they were less than that get the same in return, and I'm

not

shy about it.

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Griffin doesn't understand that the problem people have are specifically with disruptive face lights, the super nova  nose lamps which wash out the surrounding environment in a blinding glare, break local lighting, and cause other issues (such as crashing viewers when too many such light sources are together) for everyone else.

 Well, he either doesn't understand this or just likes playing the victim.

 

 Given his responses in this and other threads I'm inclined to believe these two possibilities are not mutually exclusive.

[Penny Patton]

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

face lights are not against the TOS..harrassment is though..

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This I agree with. Most people wearing the blindingly bright nose lamps are either unaware that they're wearing light sources at all (many content creators link light sources to things like hair, watches, shoes, etcetera. Other content creators include poorly set up lights with their content, when a customer wears the folder they wind up wearing the lights as well), and many of them don't even have local lights enabled, so they can't see the effect they have on others.

 Most of the time I don't say anything at all, if the lights are really a problem I would politely mention that to the person wearing them. Most people will happily detach the light sources.

 

 If someone is being intentionally disruptive with light sources, then it's no different than using particle emitters to rain Mario sprites on a sim (other than not being nearly as adorable) and would fall under griefing so I'd eject or AR the offender.

[Griffin Ceawlin]

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Penny Patton wrote:

Griffin doesn't understand that the problem people have are specifically with

disruptive

face lights, the super nova  nose lamps which wash out the surrounding environment in a blinding glare, break local lighting, and cause other issues (such as crashing viewers when too many such light sources are together) for everyone else.

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That isn't always the case, though, is it? Even a completely innocuous thread can bring people out of the woodwork to bash people who use facelights.

 

• Never, ever, ever use facelights.
• ... people using facelights are inconsiderate...
• Facelights are newbie thing, like lots of bling is.
• ... it is a great way of saying look at me, look at me...
• ... when you wear a facelight, you screw up lighting for anyone near you.Its essentially a -mild- form of griefing.
• Others have already pointed out what exactly facelights do to others. It's pretty irrelevant whether the facelight is too bright or not.

Not many qualifiers in there, are there?

Please don't pretend to know what I understand or don't uinderstand.

[Freya Mokusei]

I'm proud of not caring about the presence of Facelights. I don't have to insist everyone around me conform to some completely arbitrary set of values based on a half-baked understanding of SLs volumetric engine, and can worry about things that matter.

It also means I can make friends with people like Griffin without having to look down on him or make inferences about his understanding or taste. And means I can call out ridiculous behaviour like publicly admonishing people for the bullspit that it is.

I can enjoy attached lights, I don't have to play with any debug settings and I rarely if ever touch my mute/redrender buttons. My sense of immersion is very rarely ruined, and all I have to do is be aware of the fact that I'm living in a shared world, where other peoples' decisions will occaisionally affect me.

[Skygirl Kline]

OMG I'm gettting sucked in here..didn't intend to but this forum stuff is addictive. I agree Facelights very much enhance and stop those awful monkey shadow faces that our present lighting system gives us...BUT for those who have enabled the new shadows and ambient occlusion feature and are loving it. You will see exactly what I mean and understand when you encounter attached lights. The tip was only a way of silently switching them off without  upset to others.

Before

After:

 

[Kazimira McConnell]

Come on guys this is done to death. We all know some people that dont see thair facelights sometimes refuse to remove them and if that is blinding it can be griefing yet others that have nice subtle lights can be yelled at for it.

There are good uses for attached lights like a torch or subtle facelight so you dont get that half fullbrigh outfit look or you just dont want to look like your almost invisable when it goes to midnight settings. Plus sometimes if i'm working in a club with no lighting what so ever I'll set up my fans with a light in each side in order to try to provide some kind of lighting.

It's all about subtlety with lighting and understanding how far a light will go. Personaly a high radius facelight or any attached light buggs me unless its lit like my fans which is just to provide lighting effects in places with none. Other than that as long as you only light yourself then fine go ahead and do so there can be incredable angel effects set up by low radius very bright attached lights.

Used wisely they can be incredable but used badly and they can be terrible. I have been wondering if classes on showing lighting effects and ways of getting certain effects with SL lighting is a good idea.

What actuly bothers me more is builders and clothing makers that fullbright thair work so you are forced to only wear that object under one type of lighting condition for it to look right. Or those that fullbright part of an outfit like the belt part of a skirt so no matter what you do with beutiful lighting for the skirt you will always have a nuke brown belt. The worsed i've seen I think is a fullbright prim baby I took a lovely pic of mother and baby at sunset and though the sun looked as if it shone on mother it seemed to have no effect on daylight perminant baby. It takes very fine work to paint on shadows and sunset onto a prim baby like that.

EDIT: I needed to rant more.

[Freya Mokusei]

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Kazimira McConnell wrote:

if that is blinding it can be griefing

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No, it's not. I don't know why people keep repeating this.

Whether it is 'blinding' or not doesn't matter, it's the intention that makes it griefing. No facelight user is going around with the intention of disrupting another users experience to the point that they lag and/or crash. The minor FPS drop from lightsources is typical of being in SL in the first place. Culturally annoying to some, but still behaviour as normal. Not a reportable offence.

Again, the word 'Griefing' has a very specific definition in SL. Accusing people of doing it just because they use lightsources is silly.

I like most of the rest of your post, though, and agree it's a case of compromise between the SL lighting engine and peoples' self-perception.

[Kazimira McConnell]

OK If it's knowingly blinding.

If someone knows that the light is something like...

That then you might have a case.

 EDIT: Just explaining that the pic is actualy me demonstraighting one of my fave vails that I cant use because of the light that wipes out even the outfit thanks to it being white and haveing pale skin with that monster. I can only use it for demonstraiting now and only on an empty sim. But it looks kind of funny.

[Perrie Juran]

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Freya Mokusei wrote:

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Kazimira McConnell wrote:

if that is blinding it can be griefing

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No, it's not. I don't know why people keep repeating this.

Whether it is 'blinding' or not doesn't matter, it's the

intention

that makes it griefing. No facelight user is going around with the intention of disrupting another users experience to the point that they lag and/or crash. The minor FPS drop from lightsources is typical of being in SL in the first place. Culturally annoying to some, but still behaviour as normal. Not a reportable offence.

Again, the word 'Griefing' has a very specific definition in SL. Accusing people of doing it just because they use lightsources is silly.

I like most of the rest of your post, though, and agree it's a case of compromise between the SL lighting engine and peoples' self-perception.

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In the other thread about Facelights the point I made was that it was not the use of Facelights per se, but the uneducated use of them.

[Storm Clarence]

I think my facelight is best: 

 

[Tracy Redangel]

One of the comments I've heard from people who use facelights (as in wearing them 24/7) is "I want to look good all the time on EVERYONE'S screen".

I don't think they're understanding that this isn't always the case. Everyone has different windlight & graphic settings, etc etc etc.

I use high/ultra settings for photos & such, but when I'm simply running around SL, shopping,  hanging out etc I run on Mid graphics, or even low if I'm experiencing a lot of lag.

If you use Firestorm/Phoenix a GREAT windlight setting for daylight is Nam's optimal skin& prim. You will get no ugly shadows, if that's something that really bothers you.

Aside from all that, there's no good excuse to publicly ridicule or belittle anyone for using facelights.Grow up, put your big boy/big girl pants on and derender, mute, block or turn off attached lights if it bothers you.

[Charolotte Caxton]

I agree that Nam's Optimal Skin and Prim windlight is a great default setting. I was introduced to it when I made the move to the Exodus viewer and it greatly enhanced my Second Life experience.

[Izzabelha]

 

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Dana Hickman wrote:

 but experienced AVs who should know better will get the "upset"

every..single.. time

. I'll shout suggest in open chat that everyone who doesn't enjoy basking in this persons wannabe glow should derender or mute them immediately, and I'll repeat it as much as necessary. Let's see how long the joy of being the "light of the party" lasts when nobody can see their a$$!

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Seriously..who are you to point out in local chat and embarass someone? I read your profile, and I get now..I get it LOL. This is not just YOUR sl. Seems like harassment, your Posts Scream something not so positive. Hope you learn to play better

[Penny Patton]

Yeah, going out of your way to wag your finger or embarass someone because they're wearing an overly bright face light isn't helpful.

If someone's lights really are a problem, it's always better to mention it to them privately. Most of the time, people with the truly obnoxious face lights don't even have local lights enabled, meaning they see nothing at all and may not even be aware that they're wearing lights. 

 

 I've found in many cases people appreciate having their attention drawn to windlight settings that achieve their desired effect. Or being informed that they're wearing lights that they were not aware of.

 Starting out hostile just puts people on the defensive.

[Tracy Redangel]

Oh yes, I forgot Exodus has the Nam's settings as well. Exodus is a great viewer. Ana Lutetia studio settings are also very nice (studio 5 works very nicely if you have to set your graphics to medium).

[Freya Mokusei]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

In the other thread about Facelights the point I made was that it was not the use of Facelights per se, but the uneducated use of them.

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Yes, exactly. People don't use Facelights because they want to look like this (Thanks Kazimira):-

 

They do it because they want to look like this (Thanks to Griffin, I hope he doesn't mind me pulling it across to this thread):-

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If people wearing them had the exact intention of lighting up a 10m sphere, then sure, I could see the complainers-in-this-thread having a point. But that's not the case, so I can't understand why people are so willing to blame it on 'stupidity' or other personal failings.

The root cause of the huge facelights is probably a lot closer to being that the defaults (in the viewer) for prims set to emit light is 10m Radius, Intensity 1. And the fact that people can set the prims to emitting light even if they can't see local lights themselves. One accidental click, and you get the unfortunate situation with Kazimira's headwear (even worse if the creator then copies light prims, using them for most/every prim in the build). Further, people creating facelights without the ability to see local lights, and not realising how the light would look to others.

The third situation is people such as Griffin, who do use the settings deliberately to create an effect that looks good, without casting 'light spheres' on to others. I can't think of any reason to discourage users from using lightsources for that purpose.

[Skye Arbizu]

Thanks for the tip. 

As to the rest of the discussion, the majority of people I see with face lights have bad face lights (those that wash out all surrounding areas with light and very much impact the experience of others).

These people usually are either ignorant or have a light built into a no-mod prim object such as a hat or hair. I find most are running graphics settings without full windlight enabled and are unaware of how they appear to others, and do not understand how to use settings to obtain a pleasing render for themsleves without the use of an attached light.

Many of these people when approached politely will listen and even thank you for sharing information, especially if you provide specifics for them on how to obtain a good look without using attached light.

Are there people that when approached with a polite and non-confrontational tone about this subject will refuse to listen, get defensive, and possible attack the message bearer? Sure.

But its almost guaranteed you will get a negative response if you attack them first with something like "thanks for running my experience you noob".

In any event, if they refuse to to remove the light you can use tip provided, derender, move along or boot / ban them if its a place you own.

[Bernmarie]

Yes great tip:matte-motes-sunglasses-3:Good job:matte-motes-wink: