Is it against TOS to pass out landmarks?

[Cortland Swindlehurst]

"But you can IM strangers if you want to promote something to them. IMing isn't spamming. Sending advertising IMs out of the blue is spamming. Earlier in the thread I gave an example of a stranger IMing me out of the blue just yesterday (or was it the day before). Her IM asked if she could ask me a short question and I said "yes". Then she sent a pre-prepared ad IM that concluded by asking if I was interested. She did it without spamming me. I don't know what your LM is for but suppose it's a new club. You could IM strangers, simply asking something like, "We've just opened a new club. May I send you an LM for it in case you ever want to visit?" That way, people can do the same as they can do with leaflets in the RL street - accept it, say "no thank you", or just ignore it."

Okay that makes sense, but still shouldn't be done at infohub with those special infohub rules in mind.

Funny thing is, look all the words I've typed in this thread.. clearly I can talk.. if I had just framed it as convo, asked for permission, then it's not spam (but still recruiting I suppose).

The irony is at the time I thought that was more rude -- it takes longer for someone to have convo than to read a landmark, whereas the landmark took the least time for the recipient and politely invited further convo if they chose.  If time is the commodity here, then the promoter wastes more of the person's time with words versus a landmark.  Also, a landmark is in no way malicious unlike an unknown object passed.

So in conclusion.. a LM can get you AR'd.  But taking up a lot of a person's time by talking can't.  :matte-motes-big-grin:

On the other hand this kind of rule prevents bots and just spamming 30 people.  Because bots can't have a convo. So I get that.  But I was ready for convo this was a small group of people I was standing next to.

P.S. the business is going great, that's the good news, I have to stop posting on this forum and pay attention to it ha

It's time for this thread to go away, only way for that to happen is me stop posting.  Thanks everyone for the good promotion tips in the thread.  I'm not going to talk to any random people going forward, just personally that feels like even worse spam to me even if it's TOS-okay.

 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

Look at it this way...

1.. You are at the beach and some guys comes up and starts talking to you and after a few minutes asks if you want a flyer to his new shop.

2.. You are at the beach and some guy walks up to you and opens your beach bag and throws a flyer to his new store in.

Which scenario gets the guy in question a punch in the face?

 

[Peggy Paperdoll]

You can decline that "flyer" before it ever reaches your beach bag......just as you can mute the person talking to you before the conversation even gets started.  I'd rather do the decline than mute personally.  Either way it's a silly reason to AR and it's even sillier for everyone to get up in arms over it.  Technically it's spam...but it's technically against the law to swear in public too.  Save the outrage for a real problem spammer or that really vulgar SOB disturbing the peace with cuss words for all the children to hear.

[Dresden Ceriano]

---

Cortland Swindlehurst wrote:

"But you 

can

 IM strangers if you want to promote something to them. IMing isn't spamming. Sending advertising IMs out of the blue is spamming. Earlier in the thread I gave an example of a stranger IMing me out of the blue just yesterday (or was it the day before). Her IM asked if she could ask me a short question and I said "yes". Then she sent a pre-prepared ad IM that concluded by asking if I was interested. She did it without spamming me. I don't know what your LM is for but suppose it's a new club. You could IM strangers, simply asking something like, "

We've just opened a new club. May I send you an LM for it in case you ever want to visit?

" That way, people can do the same as they can do with leaflets in the RL street - accept it, say "no thank you", or just ignore it."

Okay that makes sense, but still shouldn't be done at infohub with those special infohub rules in mind.

Funny thing is, look all the words I've typed in this thread.. clearly I can talk.. if I had just framed it as convo, asked for permission, then it's not spam (but still recruiting I suppose).

The irony is at the time I thought that was more rude -- it takes longer for someone to have convo than to read a landmark, whereas the landmark took the least time for the recipient and politely invited further convo if they chose.  If time is the commodity here, then the promoter wastes more of the person's time with words versus a landmark.  Also, a landmark is in no way malicious unlike an unknown object passed.

So in conclusion.. a LM can get you AR'd.  But taking up a lot of a person's time by talking can't.  :matte-motes-big-grin:

On the other hand this kind of rule prevents bots and just spamming 30 people.  Because bots can't have a convo. So I get that.  But I was ready for convo this was a small group of people I was standing next to.

P.S. the business is going great, that's the good news, I have to stop posting on this forum and pay attention to it ha

It's time for this thread to go away, only way for that to happen is me stop posting.  Thanks everyone for the good promotion tips in the thread.  I'm not going to talk to any random people going forward, just personally that feels like even worse spam to me even if it's TOS-okay.

---

If only I could AR someone for stupidity.

...Dres

[Lindal Kidd]

Cort, the Barbarossa infohub has become rather a center for griefers in the Blake Sea area.  It's seen some really nasty attacks.  So it's quite possible that people there are a little edgy and ready to pull the trigger on anything seen as an annoying act.

Besides the out and out griefers, I've met a number of abrasive, annoying people there myself.  So again, it's an atmosphere designed to make people ready to believe the worst of others.

Don't give up on Mainland because of a bad experience at one hive of scum and villainy.  I live on the Blake Sea and I find it to be, by and large, as delightful a place as any private estate...plus there is the occasional, er, "interesting" encounter with a stranger to add a bit of spice to life.

Oh, and getting reported?  I inadvertently committed a much worse offense.  I had been given a folder of hair by another Mentor, and I was in the habit of passing it out to newbies.  I happened to run across a newbie at a store one day, and passed her the folder.  Another resident, overhearing the local chat, immediately accused me of distributing stolen goods.  In an effort to prove my innocence, I gave her a copy as well, saying "These are freebies, see for yourself".  She sent back, "These are all copybotted.  Reported, muted."  I was stunned, and felt just as you did...'reported, after years in SL'.  Later, I gave the folder to another Mentor...and much to my embarrassment, he pointed out lots of clues that said that, in fact, the hair WAS copybotted!  I contacted the girl from whom I'd gotten the stuff in the first place and she said, "Yeah, I just recently found that out myself.  Sorry!"

But did I get suspended or banned from SL?  Nope.  So take heart.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

You can decline that "flyer" before it ever reaches your beach bag......just as you can mute the person talking to you before the conversation even gets started.  I'd rather do the decline than mute personally.  Either way it's a silly reason to AR and it's even sillier for everyone to get up in arms over it.  Technically it's spam...but it's technically against the law to swear in public too.  Save the outrage for a real problem spammer or that really vulgar SOB disturbing the peace with cuss words for all the children to hear.

---

All i am saying is, what he did was against the rules of the infohub. If its against the rules its against the rules. the severity makes no difference. 7 counts of spam or 2 dozen, its still spam. My big issue is the fact he keeps saying he did no wrong. He spammed 7 people with unwanted LMs, which is against the sim rules. He needs to own his mistake.

Its just like some stores that have the LM/NC/Group joiner that hits you each and every time you go there, whether or not you are a member. Those stores i avoid. If i got hit with a random LM or NC at an info hub i would AR them as well.

Where do you draw the line? AR the ageplay, but not the spammer? Nail the griefer but not the spam bot?(not saying he was a spambot) The rules are clearly stated. If we all followed them we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we?

[161488303349]

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Lindal Kidd wrote:

... the Barbarossa infohub has become rather a ... hive of scum and villainy ...

 

---

i never seen any pirates ever when i been there. is sooo unfair

[Lindal Kidd]

Don't be disingenuous.  ALL Infohubs are hives of scum and villainy.  Unless they are deserted, as more and more of them are these days, with LL's new entrance processing.

[161488303349]

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Lindal Kidd wrote:

ALL Infohubs are hives of scum and villainy

---

fwiw i used to be a member of the secondlife mentor programme. since forever right up until the end

was quite a few mentors end up with this same view

i found after working with them in the public WAs for a time, then become apparent that they not really had the temperament for it. they would get upset, snippy, and start yelling even. absolutely murdering the AR button. a few would end quite bitter, hateful and resentful even. would come to the public WAs as if they were entering a warzone or something

when they got like that i would just say: best not to come here anymore. find another way to help

some of them never got over it tho. even now. way after the programme got shut down

[Peggy Paperdoll]

You know I never saw a mentor at a WA when I first started.  I would see, on occassion, a Linden walk through but that was very rare.  I did see a lot of WA regulars who hung out at the WA I came into when I joined (Ahern) and most were very helpful.  But they also picked fights with others..........I really didn't know who was a griefer and who was a good guy.  It wasn't overly bad though.  I had fun until I figured out there was a lot more to SL than a welcome area.

[161488303349]

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

You know I never saw a mentor at a WA when I first started.  I would see, on occassion, a Linden walk through but that was very rare.  I did see a lot of WA regulars who hung out at the WA I came into when I joined (Ahern) and most were very helpful.  But they also picked fights with others..........I really didn't know who was a griefer and who was a good guy.  It wasn't overly bad though.  I had fun until I figured out there was a lot more to SL than a welcome area.

---

is still a bit of that goes on. arguing with each other. but not all the time. hardly ever really as a % of the whole amount of time. most of time they just chat about normal things

at Ahern they do argue politics quite often. and yell at drunk people who on the voice. or leave their mics open and can hear kids crying or music and stuff like that. is quite a older crowd goes there and that kinda thing annoys them badly

quite a few of the oldbies who go to Ahern regular used to be mentors as well. now that they not official helpers, they still help newbies, even if they having a raging argument with someone else at the same time. kinda multitasking they are

is same at Korea1. is a dif group goes there with a dif kind of dynamic. they a bit more cheeky at Korea1. like say silly stuff to each other that some ppl would be mortified to say ever. Waterhead can be even more silly at times. but the regulars will always will stop and answer newbie questions as well and help them if they can

can say the same about most WAs. each has it own ways and can be a bit wut wut ??? sometimes. until you work out how it goes

  

 

 

[161488303349]

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

You know I never saw a mentor at a WA when I first started

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just on this part

not many mentors ever did for any length of time. not the public WAs anyway. most of them went to the newbie Welcome Islands, where the great unwashed were not allowed

what i find interesting is that the mentors who did the WAs back then, still do now without any need for a badge. and all them 1000s who didnt back in the day and instead took their badges to the WIs, wont go anywhere near a WA even now

[Lindal Kidd]

I spent most of my Mentor hours at Orientation or Help Island...but I spent time at the infohubs, too.

I pretty much stopped going there when it became clear that 90% of the people at infohubs aren't newbies, they're just loiterers...some of whom have been in SL for years, and probably never go anywhere EXCEPT their pet infohub to blab with other regulars.

I don't mind folks getting together to chat and have a good time, but their tendency to make smartass commnents confuses newbies instead of helping them.

I still make the rounds of the infohubs once in a while, for old times' sake, and in hopes of finding lost newbies.  But these days, most of them are dead zones.  Linden Lab changed the way they funnel newcomers into SL, and the old infohubs are not on the main highway any more.

[161488303349]

linden been providing newbie exits to places other than the WAs for quite a few years now

have to go way back to the Help Islands in the HIP style to find when was the last time you exited to linden WA/Infohub only. thru the big green Exit sign. even then was alternative exits. like thru the board that had the otherworlds destinations on it. the one with the flags on. which used to be on the Welcome Islands. so you didnt have to go to the Help Island after the Welcome Island if you didnt want to. could just jump out to SL proper thru them

has been 3 WI experiences made since then. each of them had/have alternative exits

now is Destination driven exits. even more choices now for people to go to at the start than ever before. i agree with you on this part. more choices is good

+

lots of new people end up at WAs bc of the Home button. is heaps of them who click that button

[Drake1 Nightfire]

why would anyone want to hang out at an infohub? that seems like the most boring place in the world to me.how boring must their life be to stand around watching newbs learn SL.

[Phil Deakins]

Where else would anyone hang out if they just want to socialise in general at any time of the day or night? I can't think of anywhere other than Welcome Areas and Infohubs; i.e. centres of people.

[161488303349]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

why would anyone want to hang out at an infohub? that seems like the most boring place in the world to me.how boring must their life be to stand around watching newbs learn SL.

---

can learn stuff off people. even new people. they quite often have new/different insights into the world. is quite surprising sometimes what you can learn from them. like for example what works for you doesnt always work for them

 

[ultrasoft]

I don't hang out at infohubs, but every time I "go home" I end up at one. And every time, a bot gives me a landmark for me to throw away.

[Rosemaery Lorefield]

Oh sorry, didn't think you'd actually have another smart remark for that so I never did come back and check.

You are being too critical of someone who obviously did not understand the situation, so yea, I did mean you.

Likewise, if you are going to be just outright mean to people who need help, don't expect to be taken seriously either

[Rosemaery Lorefield]

You don't have to accept the inventory offer, so it's not at all like a stranger shoving something in your beach bag.

[Rosemaery Lorefield]

Some people like to help newbs, some people like to watch newbs get boxes and stuff stuck all over their avis. 

Personally I don't hang out at them because I heard there are people there. Skerry.

[161488303349]

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ultrasoft wrote:

I don't hang out at infohubs, but every time I "go home" I end up at one. And every time, a bot gives me a landmark for me to throw away.

---

so you have met Rich and Sido then (:

+

is quite a few infohubs on the private estates where you can set home. Caledon Oxbridge is one. i think Dublin, Hyde Park, Moscow, Adjuda Brasil are some others. is heaps of them really. best way to find them is on the Map. turn on the checkbox for Infohubs. some of them you have to join their group to Set Home

when you do and press Home button then will always go there

 

 

[Lindal Kidd]

Oxbridge is not an Infohub, nor is Ajuda Brasil, so you won't find them by looking for the "i" symbol.

Nonetheless, they are excellent places for newcomers to visit, learn about SL, and set as a Home location!

[161488303349]

yes sorry

i kinda get the helpy places and infohubs mixed up sometimes

[ultrasoft]

Thanks for that - I did find an infohub and set Home to there - BUT

it turned out that there was only a TINY area, like a ten-meter square, where I could set home.

The rest of the infohub gave me an error.

It was a little confusing at first, because I'd try to set home in a less crowded part and I'd get the error "You can set home at an infohub" - and I was like, "I AM at an infohub!" At last I figured that the crowded space in the middle was the home-able area.

Still, there's no place like home.