Tips for inworld stores: getting found instead of lost

[Vegro Solari]

Wondering what more experienced merchants had to say about up-to-date best practices for small inworld stores. 

Do you fuss over the prim names and keywords making sure they're all "show in search"?  Or is that nowadays pretty much a waste of everybody's time?

Do the Linden classified ads and Picks work as far as letting people find you better?

What's your advice? Sassy R. are you reading this?

Thank you in advance!

[jjws888]

Sell things people want to buy!

 

No but seriously, I asked a very sucessful friend this same question, all she did was rent a store in this besically deserted mall (which still has managment believe it or not) with 0 traffic.

Then, in each one of her products on the market, she's says something like "Check out the item at my store if you want to see it before you buy!! Look below for a link!" 

And then she puts the slurl at the bottom of the marketplace page.

 

It was a zero raffic area before... i should check just how popular it is now.

[Vegro Solari]

That's a really good point.

[Ciaran Laval]

Use your picks wisely, they work, I often look at a creators picks to find more information, maybe mention in your profile to look at your picks for more information.

Search, I'm out of the loop on what works best these days but sensible naming of products should be helpful.

Classifieds can work well, but it depends upon your market and whether it's a very competitve market or not.

[jjws888]

yeah put your store in your picks too, they really do help

[Peggy Paperdoll]

How do small stores in real life get their stores in front of potential custormers's eyes?  Most of the successful small stores start off with simple, cheap ads in the local newspaper (or one of those cheap or free websites like Go-Daddy).  They tell all their friends about their store and ask them to tell their friends.  They put out a quality product and give the best customer service they can possibly give.  They are patient and persistant......they don't give up because they don't have a sale for hours or even days.  They know the problems about getting known to the public in advance and they prepare for it (things like enough working capital to outlast the initial growing pains).  The don't expect success overnight and they live on Romen noodles to save every penny they can save until sales start getting better.  The use the income from the sales to improve their business, to buy better advertisement.  They encourage customers to say a nice word to their friends about the store and service.  They don't hesitate to refund prices for dissatisfied customers (even it's an unwarranted complaint).  They grow slowly knowing that evidentually things will get better.  It's not easy in real life and it's actually harder in SL due to people's expectations......you can't change their mind if they expect something you cannot or should not provide.  Just let it go and do only what you can do.

One thing they don't do (or should never do if they plan on succeeding).  Is lie to any potential customer.  In SL that happens a lot (I mean a really whole lot).  They lie not even knowing they are lying.  They use keywords to get listed as often as they possibly can.  Key words like animations or dance when their store is a dress shop.........yeah they have a pose stand in the store or they mention a dress for dancing for one of their products.  People coming to the store looking for a dress won't notice the pose stand unless they need to use it to try on a demo of one of your products.  A dress for dancing is not going to sell that dress when someone is looking for dresses.....for dancing, casual wear, formal wear, or just a flirty dress for clubbing.  They won't see it and it won't help you at all.  What it will do is put off another potential customer who is looking for animations or dances (or a club for dancing).....the TP to your store and don't see what they are looking for and wonder why the heck did you put those words as keywords.  They see it as lying (false advertising).  You probably lost that potential customer forever and probably no way to ever get that person back in your store (even when that person is looking for dresses......people who feel they were lied to have long memories for things like that).

That's my recipe for success in SL.  It's also why I've never wanted to open a store.........I just don't have the patience.  I can afford everything I want to do in SL without depending on a linden income.  But I do shop and I do patronize stores that are honest, their product is what I expected, and their service is good if I have problems or questions.  I tell friends about the store too.

[Pamela Galli]

Research has shown that word of mouth remains the single most important driver of sales (read The Tipping Point).

[WADE1 Jya]

Good word of mouth will let you survive in SL. That worked for me so far :catembarrassed:

Yet how to get really found instead of lost amongst the hoi polloi?  Hmmm.... :catfrustrated:

First move to California. Then become best buddies with a Linden -- or better yet -- marry a Linden. Alternatively, just get employed at LL. Then you can easily find ways to feed your alt & sabotage all competitors while on the job.

Just like house always wins in a casino, Lindens & their friends always win here. They get major hookups like multiple sims with no tier costs forever. In short, anyone can win a round or two sometimes but remember its a stacked deck.

[Sassy Romano]

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Vegro Solari wrote:

What's your advice? Sassy R. are you reading this?

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I am but i'm old school.  I take the view that Coke don't just bottle drink and put an advert in the phone book and wait... They spam adverts all over and I take the same view, you need eyes on product even if they don't buy there and then, it's brand building and re-affirmation.

All of my mall spots track LM's given and purchase both there and at main store where the avatar was inbound from an "advertising location" so I can see the value of advertising at that spot but then there are also the lame dogs where I feel they should work better but don't but because of the theme of the location, I still advertise there.

Classifieds?  Viewer 2 doesn't see them in profiles so that's a whole waste of time unless that has changed.

Others have covered many of the other ways, there is no single model that suits all but whatever method is "eyes on product" and I don't feel that hoping that getting found in search is a reliable or successful method for anyone and playing LL's search rigging games is just that, a game and one that i'm not skilled at hence "old school" for me

[Spica Inventor]

For maximizing sales, don't fall into the temptation of overpricing and being stubborn (and prideful) about it. Underpricing can hurt you too because peeps still have the psychology that price=quality in S.L. just like in the R.W., but that wont hurt sales anywhere near as much as overpricing. Your best bet seems to be whatever the prevailing price on similar products are, cut it in half and sell it at that price instead. Remember, you are competing with merchants that have been around since the early days and are well established with heavy marketing ability, but being able to sell their (sometimes mediocre) stuff at astronomical prices still, so to cut into their unjustifiably huge turf you need to undercut their prices, otherwise the vast majority of new Merchants will have to wait many years to 'become discovered'. And of course the more things you make and sell, the more visible you will be and your sales will increase exponentially because of that it seems. Also find and sell items that are in demand yet are not being supplied to fully fill the demand. Right now just about anything that's 'petite' or 'tiny' is a good bet. ;-)

[Sassy Romano]

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Spica Inventor wrote:

Your best bet seems to be whatever the prevailing price on similar products are, cut it in half and sell it at that price instead.

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I don't see how that works, if the merchant is as yet undiscovered, simply giving away at a low price in itself doesn't not aid discovery, it merely means that if/when something is sold, it doesn't yield good revenue.

If the product is at the right price point, the challenge is more about how to become discovered in the first place, not give away under value.

[Ashasekayi Ra]

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Sassy Romano wrote:

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Spica Inventor wrote:

Your best bet seems to be whatever the prevailing price on similar products are, cut it in half and sell it at that price instead.

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I don't see how that works, if the merchant is as yet undiscovered, simply giving away at a low price in itself doesn't not aid discovery, it merely means that if/when something is sold, it doesn't yield good revenue.

If the product is at the right price point, the challenge is more about how to become discovered in the first place, not give away under value.

---

 

I have to agree with Sassy on this one. Undercutting is a huge problem in the SL market that hurts everyone. The goal should be to sell your item for a price that fits the reasonable range for products in your chosen market. Then, look for ways to give added value that your competitors are missing.

You always have to remember that you can't start off a brand with Wal-mart prices and raise it to Macy prices later. 

 

[Pamela Galli]

Getting found is probably easier for those of us who make things that stay rezzed in the world all the time, like houses and furniture. My products advertise themselves better than anything else.

And yes, it is quite a challenge to compete with people who undercut prices or give things away free, but so far I seem to be able to remain competive, thanks to a very loyal customer base.

But the biggest challege of all is only now beginning to hit -- ppl who rip mesh models, retopo them for SL, and bring them in and say "Look what I made all by myself!"   I can't deny, it's a good business model -- I feel almost stupid making things from scratch that take such a long time to make when I could be importing ten times as much without bothering with modeling and texturing.

[WADE1 Jya]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

But the biggest challege of all is only now beginning to hit -- ppl who rip mesh models, retopo them for SL, and bring them in and say "Look what I made all by myself!"   I can't deny, it's a good business model -- I feel almost stupid making things from scratch that take such a long time to make when I could be importing ten times as much without bothering with modeling and texturing.

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Yes this is future of SL. It is Linden's secret roadmap! Just cold corporate logic to maximize their profits & diversify their user base. There is simply far more people who want to rip stuff then there is original creators. Plus those original creators are high-maintenance demanding partners. We are hard to please & demand professionalism from LL.

Rippers quietly do their thing & just happy if they get away with it. They produce more stuff faster -- which also benefits LL. Rippers pay LL upload fees the same & LL still gets a cut of all sales. Give it one or two years -- if SL still exists -- original content creation will be essentially dead. Right now -- for the originators -- grass sure looks greener elsewhere.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

I wish I had $L10 for every time I've heard that

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"...

Give it one or two years -- if SL still exists -- original content creation will be essentially dead. Right now -- for the originators -- grass sure looks greener elsewhere."

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Same words have been uttered for 6 years that I know of.  SL is still here, creators are still creating, and rippers are still ripping.  LL must be making money or they would have folded by now (6 years is a long time to operate at a loss).  Creators are doing something right too......many of them are still here even after those 6 years I can attest to (yeah, some left but others filled the "void").  The rippers are doing their stuff too.....though they have to get a little more creative to get away with it (both the population of SL and LL are making life just a little more difficult for the scoundrels).

That grass may look a little greener over there but sometimes that greener grass is astro-turf (to quote a certain ex-Speaker of the House we all know and love ).

 

[Ellia Fairey]

I really disagree with the advice to undercut the other sellers.  I think you could have a "grand opening" promotion sale and discount your stuff for your first week to hopefully get some attention.  But setting your prices at half the competition? Thats bad business. First of all, theres lots of people giving stuff away for free. And they probably give more away than I will ever hope to sell. How can I undercut 0? You should sell at the price that generates the best price-to-sale ratio. For example, if you sell something for 500 and sell one a week, but the same item sells 6 a week if priced at 100, then it makes sense to sell it at 100.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

While I might agree that setting your price for an item at half the competition's price is not a particularly good thing to do.  Actually that's nothing but an arbitrary price that probably does no one any good......it might surpress your competition but you don't get enough to sustain your business (besides the fact that people tend to be suspicious of sellers and/or products that sell for such a low price.  Both in RL and in SL).  But, "undercutting" your competition is a successful strategy.  Walmart (if not the largest retailer in the world, it's in the top 2 or 3) got that way by doing exactly that.......they undercut their competition for the same products.  They've all but put K-Mart out of business by their aggressive pricing.  They do not sell their mechandise at half price, they sell their products at a lower price by a fews dollars (or cents).  For instance, if something sells for 20 dollars at K-Mart, Wal Mart sells the same item at 18 dollars.  Sam Walton started out with a single store in Batesville, AR with a business plan to sell products at the lowest possible price that allowed his store to stay open and feed his family.  He grew the store slowly and begain expanding to what the company is today..........he researched his competition and consistantly undercut their prices, stealing his competition's customers.

You can say what you want about Wal Mart's business strategy but you cannot deny the success of the company.  He didn't sell his products at the same price as his competitors.  He took a lower profit (sometimes to the point of a loss after he had enough capital to absorb the loss).  And now Mart Mart is so large in the retail business that they actually force the wholesalers they buy from to lower their prices.  That strategy has a trickle up quality........and that benefits everyone.  There's not reason an SL business cannot do the same thing.....but it ain't going to happen overnight.  And it ain't going to be easy.  You have to do your homework......know your competition and know your customers.

[Medhue Simoni]

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

I wish I had $L10 for every time I've heard that

------------------------------------------------------

"...

Give it one or two years -- if SL still exists -- original content creation will be essentially dead. Right now -- for the originators -- grass sure looks greener elsewhere."

------------------------------------------------------

Same words have been uttered for 6 years that I know of.  SL is still here, creators are still creating, and rippers are still ripping.  LL must be making money or they would have folded by now (6 years is a long time to operate at a loss).  Creators are doing something right too......many of them are still here even after those 6 years I can attest to (yeah, some left but others filled the "void").  The rippers are doing their stuff too.....though they have to get a little more creative to get away with it (both the population of SL and LL are making life just a little more difficult for the scoundrels).

That grass may look a little greener over there but sometimes that greener grass is astro-turf (to quote a certain ex-Speaker of the House we all know and love

).

 

---

While this might have been said a thousand times, all those other times didn't have much to base this on.

My assessment is that SL will drag on for the next few years with merchants taking the bulk of the hits. 1 by 1 we will all die off in SL. I had hopes for the Rodvick group but now it seems they are no different at all than any past controllers of Our World. Fixing SL is not brain surgery, yet LL continues to completely ignore all the real facts. I'm sure this has a little to do with all those that complain about BS stuff.

Plus, just look at what LL is doing. We won't even get any peptalk from the CEO this year, and they are spending precious man hours on things completely unrelated to SL. On top of that, they continue to refuse to fix very old bugs, that should be easy to fix. Literally, a competent coder could fix most of this stuff in a week. Instead, they want us to fix the issues and submit the fixes to them, which many have done and LL has yet to implement them.

So, where are the bright lights that we should gravitate to? IMHO, there are many things going on outside of SL. If you have learned how to make a good mesh, these other options can be quite appealing. I'm not really talking about other worlds, tho that can be an option that we should all take up in some aspect. This is why I urged all those that could to learn about mesh. Mesh is a universal asset that will work on any platform. Seek out your options!

Of course, I'm talking from a larger merchants perspective. If you are a small merchant, by all means, learn, create, and have fun doing it. If you have ambitions for more, keep your ears open.

[Nefertiti Nefarious]

Do you fuss over the prim names and keywords making sure they're all "show in search"?-  Damn straight I do!

Most of the prims on my land have a good description of what they are or what they contain, and are set to show in search. For example, the prim that makes each shop building describes what I am selling in that building, as do the signs on the building and the prices over the vendors.  Each vendor describes its contents.

Because many of my products are for decor or landscaping, if I rez one for decorating the parcel, I also set it for sale (sell a copy or sell contents) and to show in search. I make sure the description is accurate.

Do the Linden classified ads and Picks work as far as letting people find you better? I have never paid for an ad.

However, be sure to use your picks! Have at least one pick with a link to your store. I have lost track of the times I have seen something interesting, clicked on the creator profile and seen either nothing or just links to their sex partners.

For Marketplace, make sure your product titles and descriptions are clear and very descriptive. Tell me what a stranger would describe it as: color, product type, style, whatever.  Use keywords carefully, don't just copy and paste the same ones for every product.

If I'm looking for a black kimono and your black Goth corset shows up because you included misleading keywords or copypasted something to cover your corsets and kimonos, I will report you for keyword spam because you wasted my time.

 

[Czari Zenovka]

Pricing products in SL is tricky at best.  I have been spending some time on the MP looking at items similar to what I sell, mainly because one of my merchant friends keeps telling me my prices are too low.  I am comfortable with where I have set them, but did want to spend some time comparison looking.

I was absolutely amazed to see prices for the same general type of item all over the board.  There are some really, really lovely items (talking in the furniture/furnishings arena) that are on the MP for like 10L!!!!  I'm talking items with a gazillion MLP poses, gorgeous texturing, etc.  On the extreme opposite end of the spectrum, I've seen a similar item that, imo, is waaaaayyy overpriced - let's say for example a sofa, very similar to the one for 10L that is priced at 1500L.  I'm not kidding!  How one decides where to land between those extremes is an exercise in futility and frustration.  My thoughts swung to, "How can I EVER compete with someone selling something similar to mine for 10L" to "People actually BUY that for 1500L???"

I've pretty much settled on the selling a few more of an item for a little less as a model that works for me.  (Talking about my own internal pricing rather than trying to match/undercut/whatever someone else's price.)

 

[Ellia Fairey]

Peggy, i appreciate your point about walmart, and there certainly are people who make money by selling a tone of low quality stuff for low prices. But the analogy also falls short because every merchant on SL is an original content creator. No one is selling my stuff except me. We are more like artists than walmarts. And which artists make the most money? the ones selling their watercolours for $1 at the local swapmeet? Or the ones commanding big prices in famous galleries?

[Spica Inventor]

This is a blanket response to all those who think that competitive pricing is the wrong way to go. The reality is 'the market' has already determined that things are way overpriced as evidenced by the huge amounts of abandoned, vacant and unvisited lands directly caused by tier prices that are much too high relative to the demand. The old price range that went to support such high tier prices is no longer applicable because there is an alternative market called The Marketplace that is not subservient to tier prices. The wave of the future for Second life is price deflation and definitely not price inflation. All of you who are unwilling to profit from an increased user base and volume of sales will be left in the dust eventually. L.L is doing their best to keep prices inflated, but it is doomed to failure and can only delay the inevitable. If L.L. really considers growth and profitability a desired thing they will be forced to change their tune on this matter when some real competition kicks in in a few years or so.

Walmart, due to real world overhead can only undercut the competition marginally, but in S.L., the only overhead is perhaps someone's (arbitrary) value of their own time spent on developing things, so to undercut that by say 50% (or more) is not only logical and practical, but will prove to be necessary over the longer term and the sooner you competitively modify your pricing points, the better it will be for you when the dust slowly settles.

In the real world being stubborn about item prices and natural price deflation over time in a real marketplace would have landed most of you in bankruptcy court by now. ;-)

[Ashasekayi Ra]

However, the cost of labor is not wholly arbitrary for professionals in the content creation business. If the merchant simply buys templates and flood fills them with a purchased texture, he basically put in no labor and can sale his item at a price far below the market value of the item. On the other hand, a merchant that actually makes a quality, handcrafted and original product must recoup the amount of labor that he put into creating a product. 

Just like RL, there are high priced stores and bargain basement stores that do well. The success of the store depends on the owner understanding his market and offering a product that meets the standards (or lack of standards) of his clientele. And of course, they need to be able to provide that product along with several other key business factors. There are plenty of people that undercut prices that don't survive in SL. At the same time, there are plenty of mrechants that fail because users don't feel their product is worth the high price tag. It is a balancing act.

And sorry, slashing a price to 50% less than its actual value is undercutting not competitive pricing. And as I said, undercutting hurts the entire market. That's true in RL and SL alike.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

I only used Walmart and their competitive pricing (which is probably somewhat aggressive......or so it seems anyway) as an example to counter the comments about "not undercutting competition's prices).  No one on the planet can deny Walmart is a very successful business.  And Walmart became as successful as they are with their business model.  Walmart competes aggressively for customers and that puts their competitors in a box.......either compete on Walmart's terms (prices vs value) or carve out your own niche where you can compete on your own terms (or terms you care to accept).  Yeah, Walmart is a retailer (meaning they are not the creators of the products they sell)......they don't compete with creators (manufacturers).  Walmart chose the market they wanted to compete in.  Sam Walton learned what it took to "win" the market he wanted......in other words he researched, he found a way to get an edge up, he did not complain about the competitors in his market (Walgreens, K-Mart, and others).  He jumped in and competited.......and it took a lot of hard work, persistance and patience.

The competition in SL is not any different.......the way to succeed is exactly the same.  You learn your market (and learn it well), you research your market and your competition, you find a way to get an edge and you go for it.......you work you butt off and remain in the game.  Rules and regulations in the real world have to dealt with in real life and rules and regulations in SL have to be dealth with.  If you want to succeed you will have to deal with it all......looking for an easy way is not going to help you in the least.  Working hard is and if you are not willing to do that then you are destined for failure (or at best mediocroty).

I don't know why you mentioned "there certainly are people who make money by selling a tone of low quality stuff for low prices"  The implication is that Walmart only sells "low quality" products.  Yeah, there are some low quality products in Walmart.  But what about products like LG?  Garmin? Levi Strauss?  Wrangler?   Apple?  Vizio?  Samsung?  Nikon?  And that's just one section on the Walmart website (the Father's Day gift section).  I've also seen Liz Claybourn products in my Walmart.  Micheline tires, Sony and many other, not considered "low quality" items.  Buying into the hype that Walmart is a cheap, subpar discount store?

Oh, and "We are more like artists than walmarts".  Yes there are some "artists" in SL (perhaps you are one).  But not everyone in SL is an "artist".  Most are mechanics.  They learn how to make something using the tools and templates provided (by real artists, by the way).  That's not "art".  That's learning how to  use a tool to make something.  Are most people in the real world poets because they know how tor write something?  If we (as a group) start looking at ourselves as we really are and drop the romantic notion that we are something we are not and look at what we really are, then we all stand a better chance of succeeding.  I create (and use in-world) most of my clothing, the skins I wear, my shape, the textures on everything I make, and even some of the animations I use......but I'm no artist.  I'm a mechanic........and a darned good one too.

[WADE1 Jya]

The 'work hard and you will succeed' model died a few years ago (2007) in RL economy when plutocracy split the economy into two distinct seperate economy. Now those who work their butt off are likely to just be an exploited automaton or 'herd animal'. They are extremely unlikely to ever access real wealth by this method.

So yeah, I don't believe the hype and don't drink that koolaid. I also don't believe the working hard model pays off here in SL either. What works in RL is being rich enough that you can afford to engage with a certain social set. What works in SL is the same -- approaching with HUGE money and smoozing with Lindens.

What works for me is not working harder than anyone else. I tried that once and I only got very sick & tired. Almost died apparently. What works for me is being very smart and agile, doing different things than everyone else and placing my work in thriving properly-promoted markets with global reach -- not chasing diminishing returns in bug-ridden dying markets that are full of cronyism.