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Vick Forcella

Freeze MP and fix it

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Oh but.. but.. the Lindens won't get their commissions & 'feature enhancement' monies while its frozen/stopped!

Can't stop the machine :catsurprised:

Yeah I agree its thoughtless.... what they are doing here is an example of myopic planning at its worst. *sighs*

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WADE1 Jya wrote:

Oh but.. but.. the Lindens won't get their commissions & 'feature enhancement' monies while its frozen/stopped!

Can't stop the machine :catsurprised:

Yeah I agree its thoughtless.... what they are doing here is an example of myopic planning at its worst. *sighs*

When it's frozen they/ we can still get our stuff. When in a frozen state they *should* be able to, at least, clean up and fix temporary things. And work on a real fix. This is getting way out of hand.

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What exactly is the problem?

I use the marketplace and havent gotten any issues, are you talking about how it goes down sometimes?

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jjws888 wrote:

What exactly is the problem?

Products of other merchants are shown in the store. Products that have been deleted half a year ago are shown. Products are paid and delivered but the merchant doesnt receive a L$. Adult products are shown in PG stores. Images and product decriptions are mixed.

Things like that and I am sure I have forgotten things. It's a mess and that is going on since DD was introduced.

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jjws888 wrote:

 

Why haven't I experienced any of these things?

99/100 customers won't notice the problems. 100/100 Merchants are very worried.

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Vick Forcella wrote:

Or just close it and fix it. But fix it. This is going on for way too long!

I agree!  That would be the professional (and ethical re: merchants not receiving their money) thing to do.

 

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I have gotten the idea that either the mixed up listing are going to a) take a very long time to fix or b) will not be fixed.  However, they said recently they have figured out how to fix it and are proceding to do so -- but no mention of how long that might take. The problem started with the horrible botched migration from Xstreet so it has been going on for a long time -- why it seems to have started spreading more quickly now, I don't know. 

In any case, many merchants depend heavily on marketplace sales. Shutting down the marketplace entirely, so it does not work at all for any merchants, would be far more devastating than the current mess where it works at least part of the time. IMO, crippled is better than totally disabled.

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Pamela Galli wrote:

why it seems to have started spreading more quickly now, I don't know. 

Because Merchants are requested to fix their listings. They move UP in the database and then the next Merchant has the mess.


 where it works at least part of the time. IMO, crippled is better than totally disabled.

I disagree. With the continues modifications of the various databases it becomes totally impossible to identify the cause of this mess. I'd rather have it shut down knowing it will be re-released all fixed.

I think we Merchants would be willing to have it frozen for a week or two with that promise.

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Vick Forcella wrote:

 

 I have forgotten things


Merchants unable to access their stores. Merchants unable to change their listings. Merchants unable to re-open a store. Merchants unable to move items into their stores.

Did I miss anything?

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Vick Forcella wrote:

99/100 customers won't notice the problems. 100/100 Merchants are very worried.


Yes. Thinking beyond shortterm needs, what I'm worried about is site attrition from this. I think you are right that maybe 1% customers will encounter these problems. These customers stop using marketplace. Rinse. Repeat. So over time we see erosion of the customer base.

Marketplace is kinda wierd anyways because it cannibilizes the value of inworld locations. I could understand if LL destroys marketplace 'accidentally' intentionally. If that's the case, probably only upper management will know this was the directive. At the bottom, customer service workers like Brooke and Dakota will just wonder why it all went wrong & deal with the brunt of merchant/customer backlash as MP collapses.

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You guys are all forgetting the awful sales performance and how everyone I talk to has their sales down 30% to 90%. From what I've seen, it seems like you need to have a lot of items (50+) to sell anything, and the people with an item or two in their stores aren't even selling a thing.

I don't know if it's because people are getting our stuff for free or not. The way SLMP is programmed (see poorly), transactions are likely to fail at any step (customer clicks purchase button, SLMP website talks to asset server, taking money, giving product, etc) so it's foolish to say that it only happens on one step. It probably happens on all steps.

If I had to make a guess as to what's happening, I would say that at least these things are happening:

1. Customers click the buy button, the marketplace dies, and they give up because they're afraid of being double billed

2. SLMP gives away products for free (documented as happening)

3. SLMP fails between the step of the customer clicking the buy button and the merchant getting a notification.

Regardless of the cause, this is completely unacceptable. There are people who not only depend on SLMP income to pay for in world land, but there are people who also depend on SLMP income to pay real life bills.

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A fix would be great >.>, but then again, we all know things like these won't/don't get fixed really. We get patched into a sort of limping "working" solution.

I can't even add anything new if I wanted to...shut down my in-world store to just be on the MP for now...and then THIS happens...urgh...ah well...maybe after 7 years in SL, 'tis time to really retire lol.

And yes, some of us rely on this as our RL income. As it is, it's been really bad the last 2 or so years...this makes it even worse. Hopefully something gets fixed soon.

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Vick Forcella wrote:


Pamela Galli wrote:

why it seems to have started spreading more quickly now, I don't know. 

Because Merchants are requested to fix their listings. They move UP in the database and then the next Merchant has the mess.

 where it works at least part of the time. IMO, crippled is better than totally disabled.

I disagree. With the continues modifications of the various databases it becomes totally impossible to identify the cause of this mess. I'd rather have it shut down knowing it will be re-released all fixed.

I think we Merchants would be willing to have it frozen for a week or two with that promise.

I don't put much store in promises any more -- but if I knew that shutting it down for a week or two would fix it, I would not be happy but would not oppose.  But as I say, I do not think they can fix it. Our choice is a broken or no MP, I suspect. I hope I am wrong.

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Even if marketplace went read only and still allowed transactions for a week or so it would be fine if it ended up with LL making good progress towards fixing issues.

At this point, I think that losing a week or two of sales and then having things get fixed would end up making you more money even if the marketplace was closed. The only problem is that if LL doesn't fix the marketplace in that time, then we lose out on sales and we don't get the chance to make them back up.

I would even consider letting them raise their cut to 6% or 7% if it meant they could hire more people to get things fixed quicker.

This is awful for the entire grid. If sales are failing, new users aren't going to stay around. It hurts user retention. Older users give up and stop spending L$, which means less satisified customers. Merchants can no longer then afford their in world shops, so they bail on those. This helps the grid shrink and the number of simulators to fall.

I don't think the management of Linden Labs understands the negative effects the marketplace's performance has on everything. If you are a new user and you see products without prices that lead to the main page and products with the wrong images, you're never going to trust the marketplace as long as you stay in SL (and it probably won't be very long in that case).

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I don't think the marketplace needs to be completely shut down in order for LL to temporarily stop charging for things for which they can't currently provide any reliable value, such as listing enhancements.

OTOH, I'm not really that surprised that, now that I see LL actually acting like they are trying to fix stuff, merchants who have long been silent on this forum are suddenly coming out of the woodwork to say how vitally important it is to shut down the marketplace... you know, just as there's finally some kind of light at the end of the tunnel.

Why do I not even need to bother checking in order to know that these day-critics tend to be heavily invested in in-world commerce?

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I doubt shutting it down would help fix things much faster. Besides, if you where getting 100% commission instead of the usual 5% on many of the sales marketplace merchant sales would you be in a hurry to 'fix' things? ;-)

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Vick Forcella wrote:

Or just close it and fix it. But fix it. This is going on for way too long!

Unfortunately, freezing it will not enable LL to fix it. The real problem is LL can not fix it at all. That is something the "team" is not letting the CEO know, so they just stumble along pretending they know what they are doing. But shhhhh, cuz that is a big secret.

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Pamela Galli wrote:

 

...I do not think they can fix it. Our choice is a broken or no MP, I suspect. I hope I am wrong.

Yes, given time for customers to give up on it, a broken marketplace = no marketplace. LL won't keep MP running unless it is highly profitable for them, so I'm thinking no marketplace at this point. A real fix to make all good is quite unlikely here. I am talking a damage control 'fix', if LL cares to salvage anything from their MP product, there is one fix needed.

FIX REQUIRED: Find the source of data corruption to stop that process from happening.

Then identify & purge all that bad data! Outsource poor workers somewhere to run through all MP listings & flag all images that seemed (in their eye) to not match title. Hey, maybe some residents would eagerly jump to do the labor unpaid if LL put a link to MP from the SL Login Screen "Help us clean up SL Marketplace - Join us now for this most epic flagfest!".

Yeah I do not think they can fix it either :catsad:

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>if you where getting 100% commission instead of the usual 5% on many of the sales marketplace merchant sales would you be in a hurry to 'fix' things?

I would.

In fact, I would drop everything else to get that fixed first.

If you think leaving other things broken is expensive, you haven't properly considered the possible long-term cost of even appearing to continue to steal from customers. 

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Josh Susanto wrote:

I don't think the marketplace needs to be completely shut down in order for LL to temporarily stop charging for things for which they can't currently provide any reliable value, such as listing enhancements.

OTOH, I'm not really that surprised that, now that I see LL actually acting like they are trying to fix stuff, merchants who have long been silent on this forum are suddenly coming out of the woodwork to say how vitally important it is to shut down the marketplace... you know, just as there's finally some kind of light at the end of the tunnel.

Why do I not even need to bother checking in order to know that these day-critics tend to be heavily invested in in-world commerce?

I wished I could see LL is trying to fix stuff.

The forum is, well, different as it used to be.

Check my profile to see how this one-day critic has heavily invested in in-world commerce, the go in-world to make sure.

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Vick Forcella wrote:


Czari Zenovka wrote:


and ethical


Adult images in PG listings...and LL fully liable.

Ohhh, right!!!  I hadn't thought about the adult images in PG listings  and LL being liable. Hmmmm...  I guess someone would have to file "something" with "someone" (not sure if it would be a AR/DMCA/or calling local authorities for LL to get some legal heat on that.

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