SL hates entrepreneurs

[Griffin Ceawlin]

Question, JeanneAnne. Did you contribute at all towards the cost of that sim that you lived on that went poof? Or did you just live on someone else's land that they paid for, for free?

par·a·site

2. a person who receives support, advantage, or the like, from another or others without giving any useful or proper return, as one who lives on the hospitality of others.

 

[Peggy Paperdoll]

Sometimes it seems that SL is full of the people who think everything should be provided for them free of charge.  Those same people never even think of what is already provided 100% free of charge.  I know people who pride themselves on not spending a single US penny for anything in SL and those people have a great inventory and enjoy SL to it's fullest..........all for free.  Then I know people who constantly complain that SL is too expensive.  This all on the exact same platform.........simply amazing!!

Those people I know who enjoy SL for free work pretty hard to do what they do and deep down inside they all realize nothing's really free.  You either work to get your stuff for your enjoyment or you pay to get your stuff for your enjoyment.  It's the people who don't want to work for their stuff who do the complaining the most......they want it free without putting in any effort what so ever.  It doesn't work that way......not here in SL and not in real life either.  It's not able "takers" or "givers"........it's about expectations.  Expect something for free without effort and you get disappointed,  Expect something with work and you don't get disappointed.  Demanding everything for free with no effort is futile......no one is going to give anything just because someone wants it.  Most will give if the someone is willing to put in the effort to get it.  Linden Lab has been very generous in what they have given.........no other "game" (or platform" has provided what LL provides completely free with no strings attached.  Anyone willing to put out the effort can enjoy SL every bit as much as I enjoy SL (and I pay for much of my stuff).

Entitlement mentality fits quite well for those folks.  "I'm entitled to that because I exist in SL".  Your mere existance entitles you to nothing.  That's also true in real life.

[Ceka Cianci]

---

JeanneAnne wrote:

---

Griffin Ceawlin wrote:

I somehow think that JeanneAnne would like SL to give out land, for free, to whoever wants it. It may or may not occur to her that the infrastructure behind SL is not free, and that LLs employees do not work for free, either.

As virtual land fees bring in the bulk of LLs operating budget (and profit, if any), JeanneAnne's business model would bring SL crashing down.

But at least those greedy corporate pigs would have learned a lesson, huh.

---

The electricity to run the air conditioners on those vast metal server farms in Texas & S Cali ~alone!!~ costs a fortune. The servers hav2 be cooled, of course, & less expensive swamp coolers would make the humidity too high. All this hardware costs, along w/ all the other stuff necessary to keep the grid up. LL employees don't get paid nearly enough, while the parasites in management skim off way too much of what all of you who fall for their scam pay. Yeah... I understand all this all too well ..

Sooo.. LL gets the minority of SL players who've taken the bait .. who've bought in2 the toy economy .. to pay for everything while ppl like me play for free ..

Thanks! guyz .. i really DO appreciate it .. you guys ROCK !! You really do ..

Putting all your time & creativity in2 making SL wonderful for me while making LL parasites rich! How magnanimous of you !! Building & scripting & marketing all your virtual stuff for a pittance per hour ... Mother Teresa has NOTHING on you !!

Jeanne

---

omg someone zap her!! she has won the game way way too early \o/

hehehe

[Griffin Ceawlin]

You've reached a very different conclusion than I if you think that she's a "winner."

[Peggy Paperdoll]

The servers located in California are located in Southern California.........they are located in San Francisco, CA which is considered Northern California (by about 400 miles).

[Ceka Cianci]

---

Griffin Ceawlin wrote:

You've reached a very different conclusion than I if you think that she's a "winner."

---

oh shoot..i forgot to leave that lil sarcasm thingy  up there didn't i?

i hate when i do that..hehehe

[PeterCanessa Oh]

Could I point out that I have so far got through both real and second life without spending a single US penny.  Except when I was in the USA that is.  Oh - and on US military bases.  But apart from that ... :-)

Let's all remember that a lot of people with free accounts, who never buy L$ and create nothing can still contribute a lot to SL simply by what they do and/or say there.  I am friends with people because I like their company, not because they pay me (although that helps).  Jeanne's last post made me laugh a lot.  As Ceka says; she's won.

[Griffin Ceawlin]

Nah. It's me. My detector has been wonky lately. Just clarifying. :smileywink:

[Griffin Ceawlin]

---

PeterCanessa Oh wrote:

Let's all remember that a lot of people with free accounts, who never buy L$ and create nothing can still contribute a lot to SL simply by what they do and/or say there.

---

Oh, I agree 100%. But I think most of those people want or expect nothing for free that isn't.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

PeterCanessa Oh wrote:

Let's all remember that a lot of people with free accounts, who never buy L$ and create nothing can still contribute a lot to SL simply by what they do and/or say there.

---

Oh, I agree 100%. But I think most of those people want or expect nothing for free that isn't.

 

--------------------------------------------

The people I enjoy being around are not the people who complain about anything..........SL, RL, their health, their status in life, nothing at all.  I tend to avoid those who do.

[JeanneAnne]

---

Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

Sometimes it seems that SL is full of the people who think everything should be provided for them free of charge.  Those same people never even think of what is already provided 100% free of charge.  I know people who pride themselves on not spending a single US penny for anything in SL and those people have a great inventory and enjoy SL to it's fullest..........all for free.  Then I know people who constantly complain that SL is too expensive.  This all on the exact same platform.........simply amazing!!

Those people I know who enjoy SL for free work pretty hard to do what they do and deep down inside they all realize nothing's really free.  You either work to get your stuff for your enjoyment or you pay to get your stuff for your enjoyment.  It's the people who don't want to work for their stuff who do the complaining the most......they want it free without putting in any effort what so ever.  It doesn't work that way......not here in SL and not in real life either.  It's not able "takers" or "givers"........it's about expectations.  Expect something for free without effort and you get disappointed,  Expect something with work and you don't get disappointed.  Demanding everything for free with no effort is futile......no one is going to give anything just because someone wants it.  Most will give if the someone is willing to put in the effort to get it.  Linden Lab has been very generous in what they have given.........no other "game" (or platform" has provided what LL provides completely free with no strings attached.  Anyone willing to put out the effort can enjoy SL every bit as much as I enjoy SL (and I pay for much of my stuff).

Entitlement mentality fits quite well for those folks.  "I'm entitled to that because I exist in SL".  Your mere existance entitles you to nothing.  That's also true in real life.

---

Well, Peggy .. i hate to refute you but .. I've been in SL for 8 months now .. practically every day .. & I've experienced nothing but generosity. People have given me so much stuff that my inv is a complete mess w/ it all. I've gotten L$ in all sorts of ways that I'd hesitate to call "working" for it .. unless filling out surveys or wearing blue to a "best in blue" contest or shakin my pixel rear & having some perv ~kaChing~ me for it is "working" .. I've had several offers of space on private sims .. been given houses & skyboxes & even a friggin CASTLE !! & not had to "do" anything for any of it. If my "mere existence" in SL entitles me to nothing, then how come I've been so successful @ having so much fun in SL & having acquired so much virtual stuff w/out spending a penny of real $$ ?? Huh? If ppl who pay are jealous of those who dont, whose fault is that? Instead of blaming me why not blame LL for allowing ppl like me to enjoy SL for free? I guess you're just programmed to defend LL @ all costs, even when ~especially when !! ~ they exploit you .. Oh well, guess you just can't help it ... & you're right Ceka .. i HAVE won the SL game ..

Jeanne

[Griffin Ceawlin]

Same here. I kind of zone out when the complaining starts.

@JeanneAnne: Just because you've found a way to exploit other people's generosity doesn't mean you're entitled to anything. Jealous? Dream on.

[JeanneAnne]

---

Griffin Ceawlin wrote:

Same here. I kind of zone out when the complaining starts.

@JeanneAnne: Just because you've found a way to exploit other people's generosity doesn't mean you're

entitled

to anything. Jealous? Dream on.

---

The thing is Grif .. that i have never connived to exploit anyone's generosity. I haven't scammed, prostituted myself, or deceived anyone. All I've done is hang out, be friendly, dance, & enjoy myself. That's all. If I've been a bituv a floozie .. its never been in the expectation of getting stuff in exchange for it. I guess that this is my point: If you don't care about L$ it comes to you. When you obsess over it you may or may not get it but the fun dies. To my mind, the quest for L$ is the fun killer. That's when the obsession sets in. That's when the game becomes drudgery. And yeah .. I think you're jealous of me. If you weren't, you'd quit pestering the forum w/ your criticisms of me.

Jeanne

[Ceka Cianci]

---

PeterCanessa Oh wrote:

Could I point out that I have so far got through both real and second life without spending a single US penny.  Except when I was in the USA that is.  Oh - and on US military bases.  But apart from that ... :-)

Let's all remember that a lot of people with free accounts, who never buy L$ and create nothing can still contribute a lot to SL simply by what they do and/or say there.  I am friends with people because I like their company, not because they pay me (although that helps).  Jeanne's last post made me laugh a lot.  As Ceka says; she's won.

---

i'm not really being serious in here anymore.. lol

i'm just flowin with the go..hehehe

 

honestly..

people are going to invest as much as they feel and in areas they want to invest..be it time or money or talent or all combined..if people think time is cheap or free..more power to them..

if some feel like it's worthless here or a scam..well then they are on the losing end of a bad deal by wasting any of those here..

you put value behind yours..and it shows.. =)

i have this thing i do when i start something or someplace new that kind of wrecks things i like or love..it's kind of like getting too far into the works of things and losing  the important reasons that brought me..

when i first started my job..i loved it..loved all the freedom of being away from the family businesses and just putting in 8 hours..i loved relating to the people there..i really looked forward to going to work for the longest time..

then it happened..

the scoop..getting all the dirt on everyone and how the company is run and all the tricks they had to pull to stay a float..

i almost fell into the band wagon and let it be about other stuff and almost started to hate my job...then i stood back and realized  where i was when i started and what the company had to do to still be around today after all that banking stuff killing off big corps a few years ago..

i realized..it's been great being away from the family businesses..i've gotten married being away form there and we have more time to each other ..and we don't have our door getting opened every moment we try to.......never mind that part..hehehe.. and  the phone has actually stopped ringing off the hook..

that usually sets me straight again LOL

 i  just enjoy knowing that all that stuff doesn't go on anymore ..rather than letting all the other bull that just doesn't matter wear me out..

if life improves then it's time money or talent well spent..thats how i see it anyways..=)

 

 

 

[Peggy Paperdoll]

I don't blame anyone for enjoying SL for free.  What I do blame is people who enjoy SL for "free" complaining that everyone should also enjoy SL for free.  I've been in SL for a much longer time than you (getting close to 6 1/2 years now) and just by the time spent in SL I'm pretty sure I've encountered many more people than you..........I was a dancer for years and had a friends list of "clients" that would frighten most people (I was very successful (my income from dancing allowed me to purchase some 75 or 80 skins ranging from $L500 to over $L7000 without resorting to my credit card).

You're claim about not "working" is just not true..........yeah, I do define shaking your virtual butt for pervs work (I did it for years myself........I have experience in that area).  LL allows you to do what you do and recieve "payment".........and that is not something I have a problem with.  It's the slamming SL by people to benefit from that generaousity that gets under my skin.  Those people (like what I believe you are) who want more are the ones who I object to.  I can't see why you can't appreciate what you can do without spending any real life money.  But you do "work" for what you got........as does everyone else who gets along in SL without real money spent.  Why are you bitching about LL?  Cause it's the kewl thing to do?  it ain't cool......it's tacky.

[Innula Zenovka]

---

JeanneAnne wrote:

---

Griffin Ceawlin wrote:

I somehow think that JeanneAnne would like SL to give out land, for free, to whoever wants it. It may or may not occur to her that the infrastructure behind SL is not free, and that LLs employees do not work for free, either.

As virtual land fees bring in the bulk of LLs operating budget (and profit, if any), JeanneAnne's business model would bring SL crashing down.

But at least those greedy corporate pigs would have learned a lesson, huh.

---

The electricity to run the air conditioners on those vast metal server farms in Texas & S Cali ~alone!!~ costs a fortune. The servers hav2 be cooled, of course, & less expensive swamp coolers would make the humidity too high. All this hardware costs, along w/ all the other stuff necessary to keep the grid up. LL employees don't get paid nearly enough, while the parasites in management skim off way too much of what all of you who fall for their scam pay. Yeah... I understand all this all too well ..

Sooo.. LL gets the minority of SL players who've taken the bait .. who've bought in2 the toy economy .. to pay for everything while ppl like me play for free ..

Thanks! guyz .. i really DO appreciate it .. you guys ROCK !! You really do ..

Putting all your time & creativity in2 making SL wonderful for me while making LL parasites rich! How magnanimous of you !! Building & scripting & marketing all your virtual stuff for a pittance per hour ... Mother Teresa has NOTHING on you !!

Jeanne

---

I make stuff and write scripts because I enjoy doing it.    It also makes me a bit of money after I've paid tier and gone on SL shopping sprees for whatever I feel like, but that's not why I do it.    I've got a hobby I enjoy and it doesn't cost me anything and it makes me a bit of spare cash every month.

But there's no way I would pay US$300 a month per sim out of my RL income -- as opposed to out of my SL earnings from sales and land rental -- to maintain sims, and neither would many other people.   My sims, in great part, depend on people buying my stuff, and I'm able to contribute to the upkeep of other sims I like by renting shops there, which don't often cover tier, but that doesn't worry me; my other sales cover that, so it doesn't feel like it's costing me anything.

The whole thing depends, in other words, on people buying my stuff, and me buying other people's stuff.   That's fine -- we all have fun making stuff or playing with it or doing both.   But if people stop spending, the fun stops because we've got nowhere nice to enjoy our fun purchases. 

I think you missed my point about sandboxes and the like.   The trouble with public land in SL, at least as far as I'm concerned, is that there's no one who can maintain and police it.    That's why somewhere like Ahern is such a snake-pit and why public sandboxes are such a bear garden.    If someone behaves obnoxiously in a club or group-owned sandbox or welcome area,  before too long he'll be ejected and banned by someone with land rights.   If he behaves like that at Ahern or a public sandbox, then he'll fit right in, because there's no one to stop him.

[JeanneAnne]

>>then it happened..

the scoop..getting all the dirt on everyone and how the company is run and all the tricks they had to pull to stay a float..<<

OMG Ceka !!

my RL job ... i left my husband & home to take it .. & i was jazzed cuz for the 1st time I'd be putting my education to work .. earning my own $$ .. that was like 18 months ago ...

But then I realized .. the data I manipulate is biased .. & it isnt about improving a product ... half the time itsa bout finding out that a product is BETTER than it "needs" to be .. so the client can relax their standards ... & the other half itsa bout marketing. Seldom is it actually about IMPROVING a product. It was disillusioning .. I almost quit & went back home. But then I just decided that .. PHUKIT !! I just work here .. not my karma .. just reinforced my hatred of capitalism. LL is no different. It's as "good" (or bad) as it needs to be for LL execs & investor to keep raking in $$$ .. thats all. Any worse theyd lose their suckers ... (ahem! "content creators") .. any better & profits wouldnt be maximized ... so LL rides the edge of mediocrity... which is why sucky things arent improved ... not unless they get so sukky that ppl get disgusted & leave SL en mass .. & so it goes ...

Jeanne

[Sae Luan]

That is your opinion of fun.. Personally I find creating and selling to be fun and fulfilling. According to you though, I guess I'm obsessed with money since I am not "playing" for free. To be honest though, I can't remember the last time I paid my islands tier out of pocket. It wa years ago. So in a sense, I do "play" for free, as my stores pay for my tier, anything I buy, and even some RL things. I do, however, pay with time and effort, but as I stated before, it's fun for me. I LOVE my second life, regardless of bitter people screaming and complaining about anything and everything that disagrees with their opinions.

[Ceka Cianci]

---

JeanneAnne wrote:

>>then it happened..

the scoop..getting all the dirt on everyone and how the company is run and all the tricks they had to pull to stay a float..<<

OMG Ceka !!

my RL job ... i left my husband & home to take it .. & i was jazzed cuz for the 1st time I'd be putting my education to work .. earning my own $$ .. that was like 18 months ago ...

But then I realized .. the data I manipulate is biased .. & it isnt about improving a product ... half the time itsa bout finding out that a product is BETTER than it "needs" to be .. so the client can relax their standards ... & the other half itsa bout marketing. Seldom is it actually about IMPROVING a product. It was disillusioning .. I almost quit & went back home. But then I just decided that .. PHUKIT !! I just work here .. not my karma .. just reinforced my hatred of capitalism. LL is no different. It's as "good" (or bad) as it needs to be for LL execs & investor to keep raking in $$$ .. thats all. Any worse theyd lose their suckers ... (ahem! "content creators") .. any better & profits wouldnt be maximized ... so LL rides the edge of mediocrity... which is why sucky things arent improved ... not unless they get so sukky that ppl get disgusted & leave SL en mass .. & so it goes ...

Jeanne

---

maybe what you need is some new dice..

the ones you are playing seem to be loaded..hehehe

[Jennifer Boyle]

---

Innula Zenovka wrote:

As I understand it, the proceedure is that A files a DMCA takedown notice against B, and LL remove the item from the marketplace and inworld stores.   B then, if she or he wishes, files a counte notice, disputing A's claims, and LL replace the item, leaving A and B to sort it out in the courts if they wish.

Are you saying they shouldn't even bother asking B and simply ignore A's notice?

---

When it receives a DMCA notification,  LL is free to choose whether to take the allegedly infringing content down or not.  If they choose to take it down, they have a safe harbor, i.e., they are protected from liability for any infringement.  If they decline to take it down, if infringement is later proved, they may have liability.  If they take it down,the procedure is as you describe.

I certainly do not think that LL should do anything but take down content when they receive a DMCA notification that is the least bit credible on its face.  I know that LL has taken down content after receiving a complaint that it infringed a trademark.  The DMCA, its procedures, and its safe harbor provision only apply to copyright infringement, so it is impossible for a DMCA notification alleging trademark infringement to be valid, and there is no safe harbor in trademark infringement cases.  In the particular case with which I am familiar, not only was trademark, not copyright. Infringement alleged, but the allegedly infringing use was actually not infringing, because the use in SL was not for anything similar to what it was registered for.

[JeanneAnne]

Peggy & Innula .. I appreciate you both & have no quarrel w/ you & what you do .. I love SL .. i really do 3♥³

I largely post on here cuz I'm bored .. but also cuz I'd like to see SL improved ..

Seems like ppl who've been involved in SL for a long time & have become invested in the L$ economy resent me the most. That's kinduv exasperating cuz all I'm really doing is trying to defend your interests against LL's rapaciousness.

I'd like to see content creators be paid. A decent wage WITH benefits. Go ahead & hate me for it.

I'd like to see LL run the same way the non-profit credit union I bank with is run. OMG !!! COMMUNISM !!

When I see my ideas dissed it only reinforces my perception that corporations, a fascist government & an owned schooling & media industry, have done a REALLY good job of inculcating their propaganda into uncritical minds.

'K .. That's it for now. Thanks for interacting w/ me this evening... 3♥³

Jeanne

[Ceka Cianci]

you really should put your passive agressiveness to better use..this game is fun

 

[Innula Zenovka]

---

Jennifer Boyle wrote:

---

Innula Zenovka wrote:

As I understand it, the proceedure is that A files a DMCA takedown notice against B, and LL remove the item from the marketplace and inworld stores.   B then, if she or he wishes, files a counte notice, disputing A's claims, and LL replace the item, leaving A and B to sort it out in the courts if they wish.

Are you saying they shouldn't even bother asking B and simply ignore A's notice?

---

When it receives a DMCA notification,  LL is free to choose whether to take the allegedly infringing content down or not.  If they choose to take it down, they have a safe harbor, i.e., they are protected from liability for any infringement.  If they decline to take it down,

if

 infringement is later proved, they may have liability.  If they take it down,the procedure is as you describe.

I certainly do not think that LL should do anything but take down content when they receive a DMCA notification that is the least bit 

credible on its face

.  I know that LL has taken down content after receiving a complaint that it infringed a

trademark

.  The DMCA, its procedures, and its safe harbor provision only apply to

copyright

 infringement, so it is impossible for a DMCA notification alleging trademark infringement to be valid, and there is no safe harbor in trademark infringement cases.  In the particular case with which I am familiar, not only was trademark, not copyright. Infringement alleged, but the allegedly infringing use was actually not infringing, because the use in SL was not for anything similar to what it was registered for.

---

Quite possibly so.

But I'm still not sure why -- or even if -- you think LL should review every single DMCA take-down notice they receive and decide on its merits, rather than to act on it and then ask the person at whom it is direct to file a counter notice if they so wish.  

I can see considerable benefits to LL in retaining their "safe harbor" status to avoid the risk of getting dragged into legal action in which they don't really have any interest.   I can't really see the benefits to them, though, or the benefits to content creators or customers generally, in vetting the notice before deciding to act on it.   Presumably in your friend's case, she or he filed a counter-notice saying what you've just said there, and the content was replaced and that was that.

Maybe it's just the people I talk to, but most of the complaints I hear are about what a hassle it is to file the notice and get the allegedly offending content taken down from the marketplace rather than about being the victim of baseless DMCA notices.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

I don't see any passive aggressiveness with her.  What I see is someone who has mads choices in real life that turned out to be mistakes for them.  She refuses to accept the responsibility that the choice was made by her and it was wrong for her (as mentioned in one of her posts about leaving a family and home behind for a "career" she thought was hers).  That didn't work out (evidently) and now, instead of accepting her choice as a mistake, she places the blame on the company or corporation who she chose for her "career" move.  Now it's "just a job"......I wonder if she will blame the company if she finds herself standing in the unemployment line if the company ever finds out "it's just a job" for her.  Probably, and she will use that to further reject any personal responsibility in life.  There are lots of people like that in the world...most, eventually, learn with maturity what the real problem is.  But then some don't......and they go to the grave as unhappy and bitter people (another choice in life).  Life is not tailor made for anyone.......everyone has to make life, either pleasant or unpleasant, for themselves.  She claims she hates capitalism for the reasons she says are limiting her happiness in life.  But without someone to make it possible for her to choose anything at all, she has no choice about anything.......capitalism makes those choices possible. 
Socialism and Communism take away those choices. 

Reminds me of my 6 year old niece when she wants something yet has not done a thing to make that something available to her.  Such as eat the beets and she can go play.........it's the beats fault she can't go play (or her mother's fault because her wants her to eat the vegetable to make her healthy......who's choice is more correct?).  Leave it to the immature and the world gets crazy. 

[Lindal Kidd]

---

JeanneAnne wrote:

---

Griffin Ceawlin wrote:

I somehow think that JeanneAnne would like SL to give out land, for free, to whoever wants it. It may or may not occur to her that the infrastructure behind SL is not free, and that LLs employees do not work for free, either.

As virtual land fees bring in the bulk of LLs operating budget (and profit, if any), JeanneAnne's business model would bring SL crashing down.

But at least those greedy corporate pigs would have learned a lesson, huh.

---

The electricity to run the air conditioners on those vast metal server farms in Texas & S Cali ~alone!!~ costs a fortune. The servers hav2 be cooled, of course, & less expensive swamp coolers would make the humidity too high. All this hardware costs, along w/ all the other stuff necessary to keep the grid up. LL employees don't get paid nearly enough, while the parasites in management skim off way too much of what all of you who fall for their scam pay. Yeah... I understand all this all too well ..

Sooo.. LL gets the minority of SL players who've taken the bait .. who've bought in2 the toy economy .. to pay for everything while ppl like me play for free ..

Thanks! guyz .. i really DO appreciate it .. you guys ROCK !! You really do ..

Putting all your time & creativity in2 making SL wonderful for me while making LL parasites rich! How magnanimous of you !! Building & scripting & marketing all your virtual stuff for a pittance per hour ... Mother Teresa has NOTHING on you !!

Jeanne

---

Oh, that's just too much, Jeanne.  Belittling and scoffing at the very people who make SL the richly detailed and interesting playground YOU enjoy.  Please, if you think so little of SL, its creators and its "toy economy" (which by the way, handles millions of dollars...dollars, not $L...per month) take Peter's advice and go start your own virtual world.  Or join an existing one.  There are many out there.  You'll find that none are anywhere near as big and detailed as SL...because they don't have a "toy economy" of their own.