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I have just been threatened with an AR by a disgusting shrieking freak for the 'crime' of attempting to sell an item! 

This maniac (some revolting sissy who should be monitored by the CIA, no doubt) accused me of being a contents thief. I tried to explain that a) the item is COPY/TRANSFER/MOD b) I was not claiming to have 'created' it c) I was selling it as a second hand item. With this. the rotten brat threatened to fake AR me for something else, and I reluctantly withdrew the item for sale - impacting on my business. 

How is anyone meant to make their own Lindens if screaming interfering idiots disrupt sales like this? Contents creators- make your items non-transfer if you don't wish them to be sold on!! Of course, again, this level of malice and jealousy, this hatred of entrepreneurs, only benefits the SL landowners - those who think all noobs should only be able to make money by creating female alts and offering sexual services!

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instead of the person jumping down your back like they did ..they should have asked if you knew that you were reselling something full perms that may not be allowed to be sold as full perms..

if they felt they knew better.. then they should have took the time and explained how they knew better rather than saw an opertunity to act like an asshat..

some people can't wait to hit the jump button..

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There are a lot of freebies in SL that are given-away with full perms.  It is considered very poor form to re-sell these, or at least to sell them for more than a nominal L$1.

How is anyone meant to make their own Lindens?  By creating their own items or at least adding value to resold items.  You may have been doing so for all I know.  In any case, there are plenty of legitimate ways to make money in SL, fear not.

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Clive Hendes wrote:

I have just been threatened with an AR by a disgusting shrieking freak for the 'crime' of attempting to sell an item! 

This maniac (some revolting sissy who should be monitored by the CIA, no doubt) accused me of being a contents thief. I tried to explain that a) the item is COPY/TRANSFER/MOD b) I was not claiming to have 'created' it c) I was selling it as a second hand item. With this. the rotten brat threatened to fake AR me for something else, and I reluctantly withdrew the item for sale - impacting on my business. 

How is anyone meant to make their own Lindens if screaming interfering idiots disrupt sales like this? Contents creators- make your items non-transfer if you don't wish them to be sold on!! Of course, again, this level of malice and jealousy, this hatred of entrepreneurs, only benefits the SL landowners - those who think all noobs should only be able to make money by creating female alts and offering sexual services!

Once you start treating SL as a business instead of a game .. its no longer fun. Don't worry about $L, just enjoy SL for free & have fun. That way, you don't end up all bent outuv shape like you come across as being.

Jeanne

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it was a wee but harsh to threaten you like that he could have been more polite about it or jusr AR'd you with out making threats and been on their way. a lot of full perms items are user licensed for use in your own content creation almost always these licenses forbid re-sale of all/part of the contents of the pack, they can even restrict the perms you can use when you want to sell something created from the pack. if the item wasn't licensed you are pretty much free to do as you wish with it otherwise the original creator wouldn't have put full perms

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You're upset that this disgustingshriekingfreakmaniacrevoltingsissyrottenbratscreaminginterferingidiot jumped to a conclusion?

I find this, coming from someone who belongs to a group that states in its charter that people behind child avies "have something seriously going on" in their minds that is "just sick and demented," amusing.

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You may have the item full perms, and you may not have any information limiting you to do that, but do you know for sure that the item you have is actually made by who you got/bought it from? You may have an item or items that have been copybotted/stolen or may have had a perms mishap, and have never been the intention of their creator to be available to anyone full perms.

Yes there are many full perms suppliers out there that sell their own content in that manner with a license/agreement on how the item is to be sold by the purchaser, but alas there are also many thousands of items in Second Life that are being passed around and are not that way at all. The person that screamed at you may have been the original creator ( even if their name is not shown as) or may be a friend or staff member of the original, and may either be just sick and tired of seeing the item everywhere and nothing they can do to stop it, or they may not have great communication skills. 

Either way, it is your responsibility to know what you are putting out there, and selling full perms items full perms again is not the way to go about establishing any business model in Second Life. 

Also Second Life has become what it is today because of its love of Entrepeneurs :) so don't think that is the case at all.

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Before you rant using a title for your rant "SL hates entrepreneurs" you might want to read what you are accusing SL of doing (or not doing).  Digital Millennium Content Act (DMCA) is what is involved here.  It's a United States law to give digital content creators/owners ways to protect their intellectual property rights (IP rights) for digital content.  Linden Lab (or SL, as you referred to the company) must abide by the US law because they are a US based company.........they have no choice in the matter.  You can read what the law is:

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=dmca&oq=dmca&aq=0p&aqi=p-p2g2&aql=1&gs_l=hp.1.0.35i39l2j0l2.1764l5047l1l11370l6l3l3l0l0l0l116l312l1j2l6l0.epsugrst.1.&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=21ba5269d78bca91&biw=1536&bih=759

 

After reading the Wiki page, Google the DMCA Takedown procedure.  That will tell you who can file for the take down and what the provder of the content must do once the takedown notice has been filed (and how it may be appealed and how the content is treated once the takedown is appealed.  What you going to find out is that no one except the IP rights owner (or a legal representative) can file the take down notice (and that the take down must be filed properly, to the proper entity for anything to take place.  Then you'll learn why LL has taken the stance they have taken for pirated or stolen content.  Once you know who must and how they must file a DMCA takedown you'll know that this misinformed person who you call a low life brat can file a thousand AR's against you for stolen content and they will simply toss the AR in the trash.......the complaint has to come from the IP rights owner (or their legal representative) and no one else. 

Direct your rants to the right target.  It's not LL's fault this moron doesn't know what he/she is talking about.  It's also not LL's fault that you are (apparently) just as ignorant on the subject.  Forget your "friend's" threats.......as long as you are certain that you are not violating and license provided for the use of these free (or even paid for) full perm content items.  If you are violating any part of the licenses attached to the items then, you are subject to a DMCA takedown being filed against your content......but the complaint will have to come from the IP rights owner (not your new friend with his/her threats).

 

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Sometimes creators leave full mod freebies out there because they want some things to remain free for new people :) They may also just like to keep their name in circulation. Usually the original packaging contains their wishes that it stay a free item. Many of these are widely known to a lot of residents that have been around for some time. probably most of us already have multiple copies in our inventories, lol.

The creator's wishes or license can get lost as the items pass from person to person. I'd honestly just refrain from trying to resell freebie stuff. There's plenty of ways to resell stuff that is designed to be resold. Some from high profile companies that already paved the way to a good reputation for you. Have a look around :)

Whatever route you go, it's up to you to be sure you have the right to be selling other people's stuff.

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I agree this person may have been out of line,if in fact it happened exactly as you said.  However that doesn't relieve you of the responsibility of making sure you are selling legally.

You have no way of knowing if the person who made the item used all their own sculpt maps, textures, scripts animations etc. or purchased/stole them full perm and then violated their license when they sold or gave it to you until you check it out yourself.  Unless you got ALL these things directly from the oiginal creator of any part used in the items creation, and got a license that said you could sell it full perm, then you probably were violating someones IP rights.

If its full perm  you can check that yourself for any edit contents by clicking i t and going to properties and it will show you the creator.  For sculpts, a lot of time the map has a watermark showing the original texture..  If not, you could look on Marketplace for the sculpt because most of them are sold on there. Once you know who actualy created these things you should check with them before selling it.

I also agree that its very bad form to sell something that you got for free, if you got it for free.  Its just greedy taking advantage of people that don't know where to get it themselves for free.

SL does not hate entreprenurs.  It is actually the best on line world when it comes to encouraging content creation.  Not only do you not have to pay LL for a license to be a content creator, you can sell what you make at any price you choose and keep all ofthe money other than if there is a MP commission.   You also retain the IP rights to anything you make.  No other virtual world that i know of has such liberal terms, other than SL based open grids, which have a lot of issues SL doesn't have. If your just reselling, your not really the entreprenur that is protected unless your selling it with the full permission of the original creator of any component used in its creation and under the terms of their content license.

 

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I think it's totally legit topic.  If something is transferrable and has no user license, then it's not against any LL regulation or TOS to sell it.  Full permissions do not mean the product cannot be resold.  Unless there is a license stating it can not be.

Selling freebies on the other hand, is a totally different topic I think.  And again, if it's transferrable then there will be people that will sell them.  This is also, not against and rules or regs but is of course frowned upon.

Since the OP speaks of reselling a full perm item but doesn't indicate whether it came with a license or not, can't really judge whether or not he is doing so against the creator's wishes.

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I sometimes send thankyou messages to makers of helpful or well made items that i pick up on marketplace.

 

A while back i sent a thankyou to the maker of an item and his reply was "thats lovely, but I didn't sell it to you on marketplace".

 

On investigation, there were 6 seperate people all selling the item he made at prices ranging from 1 linden to 100, whereas he didnt have a marketplace store at all. Such are the risks of full perm items.

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Clive Hendes wrote:

I have just been threatened with an AR by a disgusting shrieking freak for the 'crime' of attempting to sell an item! 

This maniac (some revolting sissy who should be monitored by the CIA, no doubt) accused me of being a contents thief. I tried to explain that a) the item is COPY/TRANSFER/MOD b) I was not claiming to have 'created' it c) I was selling it as a second hand item. With this. the rotten brat threatened to fake AR me for something else, and I reluctantly withdrew the item for sale - impacting on my business. 

How is anyone meant to make their own Lindens if screaming interfering idiots disrupt sales like this? Contents creators- make your items non-transfer if you don't wish them to be sold on!! Of course, again, this level of malice and jealousy, this hatred of entrepreneurs, only benefits the SL landowners - those who think all noobs should only be able to make money by creating female alts and offering sexual services!

 

How is anyone meant to make their own L$?  Create your own things, like MOST Second Life's content creators.  I personally find it in very bad taste to resell full permission items as is, regardless of the license attached.  You are not a content creator if you take the hard work of others and resell it as is with no bit of creative changes.

I do sell items full permission, and they all have a license attached to them.  I can tell you right now, if I found you reselling my items as is or with full permission, I'd be filing against you immediately.  Just because they are full permission does not mean it is your to do with as you wish.  There are limitations in most cases, and you'd be wise to double check before placing items for sell.   

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Did you buy the item direct from the original creator?  I ask because there's a lot of ripped content floating around that people have manage to make full perms by using a variety of nefarious means.   

If I see something I recognise as being made by someone other than the seller, I don't AR the re-seller, but I do contact the original maker to let them know what's going on, and DMCA take-down notices often follow.  

As an entrepreneur and content creator myself, I take a dim view of people selling ripped content, even inadvertently.

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Clive Hendes wrote:

I have just been threatened with an AR by a disgusting shrieking freak for the 'crime' of attempting to sell an item! 

This maniac (some revolting sissy who should be monitored by the CIA, no doubt) accused me of being a contents thief. I tried to explain that a) the item is COPY/TRANSFER/MOD b) I was not claiming to have 'created' it c) I was selling it as a second hand item. With this. the rotten brat threatened to fake AR me for something else, and I reluctantly withdrew the item for sale - impacting on my business. 

How is anyone meant to make their own Lindens if screaming interfering idiots disrupt sales like this? Contents creators- make your items non-transfer if you don't wish them to be sold on!! Of course, again, this level of malice and jealousy, this hatred of entrepreneurs, only benefits the SL landowners - those who think all noobs should only be able to make money by creating female alts and offering sexual services!

Next time, just report them. They'll learn their lesson.

 

iCade wrote:

If you have bought an item that is copy/mod/trans, and you are now selling this item as copy/mod/trans than the person was right. Legal action can be taken against you for doing that.

False.

If you buy something and agree to a EULA prior to purchase (notecards inside boxes and pictures in stores are generally invalid, it has to be listed on the MP page or on the vendor) and then violate the EULA, you can have a DMCA takedown filed against you.

Otherwise, if it's full perm, you can do whatever you want with it, even if it's in bad taste.

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Gadget Portal wrote:


Clive Hendes wrote:

I have just been threatened with an AR by a disgusting shrieking freak for the 'crime' of attempting to sell an item! 

This maniac (some revolting sissy who should be monitored by the CIA, no doubt) accused me of being a contents thief. I tried to explain that a) the item is COPY/TRANSFER/MOD b) I was not claiming to have 'created' it c) I was selling it as a second hand item. With this. the rotten brat threatened to fake AR me for something else, and I reluctantly withdrew the item for sale - impacting on my business. 

How is anyone meant to make their own Lindens if screaming interfering idiots disrupt sales like this? Contents creators- make your items non-transfer if you don't wish them to be sold on!! Of course, again, this level of malice and jealousy, this hatred of entrepreneurs, only benefits the SL landowners - those who think all noobs should only be able to make money by creating female alts and offering sexual services!

Next time, just report them. They'll learn their lesson.

 

iCade wrote:

If you have bought an item that is copy/mod/trans, and you are now selling this item as copy/mod/trans than the person was right. Legal action can be taken against you for doing that.

False.

If you buy something and agree to a EULA
prior to purchase
(notecards inside boxes and pictures in stores are generally invalid, it has to be listed on the MP page or on the vendor) and then violate the EULA, you can have a DMCA takedown filed against you.

Otherwise, if it's full perm, you can do whatever you want with it, even if it's in bad taste.

most anything you buy has the EULA in the instruction booklet inside the box..

not in their adds..

look at just about any software or dvds and thigns like that..most are in places that you can't see them until after the purchase..

the adds or boxes on the outside are usually for credit for any creators or trademarks involved and informtion about the product.

the rules are usually inside..

 

a service will usually have you agree to something beforehand..a product bought off a shelf or where ever more times than not..won't..

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Ceka Cianci wrote:


Gadget Portal wrote:


Clive Hendes wrote:

I have just been threatened with an AR by a disgusting shrieking freak for the 'crime' of attempting to sell an item! 

This maniac (some revolting sissy who should be monitored by the CIA, no doubt) accused me of being a contents thief. I tried to explain that a) the item is COPY/TRANSFER/MOD b) I was not claiming to have 'created' it c) I was selling it as a second hand item. With this. the rotten brat threatened to fake AR me for something else, and I reluctantly withdrew the item for sale - impacting on my business. 

How is anyone meant to make their own Lindens if screaming interfering idiots disrupt sales like this? Contents creators- make your items non-transfer if you don't wish them to be sold on!! Of course, again, this level of malice and jealousy, this hatred of entrepreneurs, only benefits the SL landowners - those who think all noobs should only be able to make money by creating female alts and offering sexual services!

Next time, just report them. They'll learn their lesson.

 

iCade wrote:

If you have bought an item that is copy/mod/trans, and you are now selling this item as copy/mod/trans than the person was right. Legal action can be taken against you for doing that.

False.

If you buy something and agree to a EULA
prior to purchase
(notecards inside boxes and pictures in stores are generally invalid, it has to be listed on the MP page or on the vendor) and then violate the EULA, you can have a DMCA takedown filed against you.

Otherwise, if it's full perm, you can do whatever you want with it, even if it's in bad taste.

most anything you buy has the EULA in the instruction booklet inside the box..

not in their adds..

look at just about any software or dvds and thigns like that..most are in places that you can't see them until after the purchase..

the adds or boxes on the outside are usually for credit for any creators or trademarks involved and informtion about the product.

the rules are usually inside..

 

a service will usually have you agree to something beforehand..a product bought off a shelf or where ever more times than not..won't..

Well yes. Software has it in the package or on install, but you can generally bring that back to the manufacturer/developer or sometimes even the vendor and say "I don't agree with the EULA" and get a full refund. Not all vendors and not all states, but all manufacturers and publishers will generally honor your refund for that reason.

That's always been the case for me with games (the few I've disagreed with), and the same applies to other software.

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote

....they have no choice in the matter.  

 

Hi Peggy,

 

I am so tired of reading that they "have no choice."  Indeed they do, and, if they were responsible fiduciaries, they would exercise it.  Removing content that someone, anyone, alleges is infringing, in rerponse to a DMCA takedown notice gives LL a safe harbor, but they are not required to do it, and, IMHO, should not do it if the allegation is not believable.  But they just take down anything anyone says is infringing without even determining if the allegation is believable on its face.

 

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Jennifer Boyle wrote:


Peggy Paperdoll wrote

....they have no choice in the matter.  

 

Hi Peggy,

 

I am so tired of reading that they "have no choice."  Indeed they do, and, if they were responsible fiduciaries, they would exercise it.  Removing content that someone, anyone, alleges is infringing, in rerponse to a DMCA takedown notice gives LL a safe harbor, but they are not required to do it, and, IMHO, should not do it if the allegation is not believable.  But they just take down anything anyone says is infringing without even determining if the allegation is believable on its face.

 

As I understand it, the proceedure is that A files a DMCA takedown notice against B, and LL remove the item from the marketplace and inworld stores.   B then, if she or he wishes, files a counte notice, disputing A's claims, and LL replace the item, leaving A and B to sort it out in the courts if they wish.

Are you saying they shouldn't even bother asking B and simply ignore A's notice?

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Gadget Portal wrote:


Ceka Cianci wrote:


Gadget Portal wrote:


Clive Hendes wrote:

I have just been threatened with an AR by a disgusting shrieking freak for the 'crime' of attempting to sell an item! 

This maniac (some revolting sissy who should be monitored by the CIA, no doubt) accused me of being a contents thief. I tried to explain that a) the item is COPY/TRANSFER/MOD b) I was not claiming to have 'created' it c) I was selling it as a second hand item. With this. the rotten brat threatened to fake AR me for something else, and I reluctantly withdrew the item for sale - impacting on my business. 

How is anyone meant to make their own Lindens if screaming interfering idiots disrupt sales like this? Contents creators- make your items non-transfer if you don't wish them to be sold on!! Of course, again, this level of malice and jealousy, this hatred of entrepreneurs, only benefits the SL landowners - those who think all noobs should only be able to make money by creating female alts and offering sexual services!

Next time, just report them. They'll learn their lesson.

 

iCade wrote:

If you have bought an item that is copy/mod/trans, and you are now selling this item as copy/mod/trans than the person was right. Legal action can be taken against you for doing that.

False.

If you buy something and agree to a EULA
prior to purchase
(notecards inside boxes and pictures in stores are generally invalid, it has to be listed on the MP page or on the vendor) and then violate the EULA, you can have a DMCA takedown filed against you.

Otherwise, if it's full perm, you can do whatever you want with it, even if it's in bad taste.

most anything you buy has the EULA in the instruction booklet inside the box..

not in their adds..

look at just about any software or dvds and thigns like that..most are in places that you can't see them until after the purchase..

the adds or boxes on the outside are usually for credit for any creators or trademarks involved and informtion about the product.

the rules are usually inside..

 

a service will usually have you agree to something beforehand..a product bought off a shelf or where ever more times than not..won't..

Well yes. Software has it in the package or on install, but you can generally bring that back to the manufacturer/developer or sometimes even the vendor and say "I don't agree with the EULA" and get a full refund. Not all vendors and not all states, but all manufacturers and publishers will generally honor your refund for that reason.

That's always been the case for me with games (the few I've disagreed with), and the same applies to other software.

i would say the majority don't even read them hehehehe

a lot just click the agree to get going and wing it lol

until they get in some sort of trouble or a warning..and then only some of those will even take the time..hehehe

i make sure i read them because thats usually where we used to have to agree to let them put spyware programs in with a lot of the things that you could test out on the net in order to use them..

like drivers and demos and things like that..

 

 

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