Should 'Verified RL.....' Groups Actually Be Allowed ?

[Celestiall Nightfire]

---

Verena Vuckovic wrote:

"Source please. I don't think anyone WANTS to force anyone to prove anything."

Lol....I'm just looking at some of the 'Verified RL....' group descriptions.....which contain phrases like....

1) 

Tired of men pretending to be women or the other way around? This is the solution! Never let people cheat on you anymore! This group officially verifies if your sex is real. Verifcation done with voice and/or webcam verification. After you are officially verified, you will get the Verified Male / Female tag. And everyone will know you are

real and honest

!

2)

the girl is ONLY verified if she has the tag "Verified Webcam"!! Do NOT accept any offer if the 'girl' doesn't have this tag!!

3)

Upon joining this group as "Unverified", you can verify via voice, cam, or both to receive the Verified title and

set the record straight

. To receive the verified title, you must be over 18 (If you appear underage, you'll be asked to show a santized ID), and match the same sex as your avatar. If you have a first life photo, we can verify that too via webcam.

4)

prove you're identity to us

,and we let you join our group,so that everybody sees that you're real.. all the girls in our group are verified !

 

You

seriously

think these groups don't want to force anyone to prove anything ?????

---

Hhmmm, so? 

Personally, I've never encountered a group like that.   But, it does not bother me in the least that someone in SL has created a verify group. 

I'm adult, and I decide for myself what, if any, RL information I share.  I might do voice, share pictures, RL name, and more for certain people.  For other people, they only get what's on my SL profile.  I feel no peer pressure by groups in SL to reveal more.  I can't understand, why it bothers you, that a group wants to verify it's members.  If the group clearly makes it known that they have such a procedure, and you don't want to comply, then don't join the group. 

Verena, what you are failing to understand is that the group has every right to make their own rules.  Don't want to do their verification procedure?  Then don't join the group.  Duh. 

Sheesh    

*wanders off to find some people who take responsibility for their own lives and actions*

[Amethyst Jetaime]

Joining or not joining a group is entirely voluntary.  No one is pressured into unless they allow themselves to be.

The valid point was made that the only way to truly 'verify' anything is that you do it yourself AND do it in RL face to face.  Voice, cam, pictures, anything that you can named can be faked.  In addition, there is no way of knowing if the people doing the verifying in these groups are honest or actually verifying anything. So really people that take membership in these groups as actual verification are pretty ignorant themselves.

I don't care what anyone thinks as far as my RL sex or really anything about my lifestyle choices in SL.  I know what and who I am, and so do the people that I care about.  I've never felt any pressure to verify my sex to anyone since I joined SL in 2006 and no one I know has either.  True, I've been asked before, but rarely. I just refuse.  If they don't want to respect my right to refuse and/or won't associate with me as a result, they are doing me a favor, because I sure don't want to associate with people like that myself.

I am thinking that one of three things is going on here all having to do with your own insecurities. 1)You are reading something into these groups that isn't there and are worrying about something that doesn't exist.  If so, get a grip.  A number of people are telling you that this is not the case. 2) Maybe your not a woman yourself but want everyone to believe you are yet know that if your asked by someone to verify it you can't.  If so, why do you care unless you are trying to deceive someone who thinks you are a woman and won't have anything to do with you if you are not. 3)Maybe you have felt pressured by a man or one or more people to join one of these.  I submit that if this is what is going on, you dump the guy and run and/or find a better class of people to hang out with.

[Charolotte Caxton]

Umm... what is the point of joining a group to verify? For 100 lindens I can make a group that gives me a tag that says I am verified.

When I was new and guys wanted me to verify, I just stopped talking to them cause I wasn't ready to give up any real life info about me, including my voice. Now I figure no one I know in RL is on SL, so it's not that big a deal and I just do it one on one now, IF I think he or she is worth it, but they gotta do the same.

Phone calls are free you know.

[161488303349]

[Charolotte Caxton]

Omg, she scares me. It even seems like her male voice is fake. Weird.

[161488303349]

the person in the vid is pretty cool. is really talented. is not many people can do this tho. at least as well as this

+

the OP is actual wrong i think. people can choose who they want to associate with or not as they like. else can get weird stuff like i insist on being your friend even if you dont want me to be. can get creepy sometimes when people get weird

is ok if people who want to get intimate wants to do that with people of the rl gender they prefer. is a limit to fantasy for quite a lot of people and is ok that as well

[Charolotte Caxton]

Is that you in the vid? It is titled 016

[161488303349]

me nah! is number 16 in the series is all. can find the others on youtube

[Charolotte Caxton]

Oh! hahaha, you should play the lottery tonight

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

---

16 wrote:

---

 

This is exactly why these so called 'verification' groups are no guarantee that anyone can actually be verified by voice or cam.  The only way I feel comfortable, if it matters to me, is getting to know the person well.  Usually people slip up somewhere if they are the opposite sex in RL.although that isn't even fool proof.  You can be fooled up to a point in real life by someone that is really good.

 

 

 

[GothGirl Demonia]

I see the verified by RL groups a lot recently mostly being used in RP sims such as GOR...

Well here is a good Joke... Since people are going to do verified by Real Life, lets make a group and verify each person playing in our sim isn't a Bot lol.

Okay well I choose to stay anonymous online I really don't care about being verified, I am everyone, and I am no one, I never forgive, and I never forget. That is just the way I natually am.

When I say I never Forgive that really depends on how bad it is but still I never forget period.

Verified by RL groups seperate the community as a whole saying hey I am a verified panther, not a manther, it ruins the spirit of RP, and I refuse to take part in any type of RP. If I choose to give out my facebook information, or Myspace is my choice, I will not have someone else asking for them.

Also just some tips for those of you wondering OMG my friend is getting stalked, well I am everyone and I am no one, so I could be your best friend on another account another hardware ID/PC, and another IP you wouldn't know me if I was, so that means I could be a stalker, but don't worry I am not a creepy stalker as kitty only rages at those who have clawed first then I respond, my friends respond and believe me it isn't good, and its to protect the kitty, and their friends whom they are.

1. Listing PICKS or people in your profile is not a good thing.

2. Giving out information like myspace facebook, etc. ** One Cat Leads To Another, Another Cat Leads to Zippo Cat** To me this meme means they will track your friends you make one person angry then they got your myspace friends, or friends from facebook, and before you know it people are making threatening messages to you online, or doing other harassment to you.

Never do verified groups, never trust anyone with too much information..

I don't know how much I have to say this, but always assume a person maybe recording you reguardless of rules, remember the internet has no real rules, and TRUST IS A WEAKNESS...

I still am really amused by some people in SL how much ignorance there is, and yep kitty always gets the hate ); but then again lots of people hate kitties.

 

http://tinypic.com/r/xdzer8/5 <--- Nope I didn't do it but see my point of what happens when you mess with the wrong people heh. Thats what 3 sims taken offline in a matter of minutes or less due to one griefer who decided to grief me and other people.

http://tinypic.com/r/2a5ydmp/5 <-- See what happens, Someone decided to slap this ktity, well Kitty got its revenge, yep that was like 20+ IP bans but ya know I got some great laughs from all of this drama not started by me.

Another big tip about stalkers and verifying info through verify groups is this...

The Internet is serious business don't think a griefer will get banned, true you can get banned from any game or service, but what is a ban? Before I learned about MAC/Hardware ID bans I could actually be banned, but now I can do what I want when I want anywhere I want there is no stopping the pain train so to speak. I am not an evil kitty who bites without being bitten first, however there are those that are. You report a botter for stealing your work, or selling your copyrighted content illegally they just make another account and don't care that is their life, I choose not to do that simply because I believe it is wrong. But you also have to remember that giving any information can lead to serious RL threats and attacks, as well as the safety of your family online, your friends, and that I have seen griefers hit sims before, and you know there were some pretty epic Raids of over 9000+ griefers Linden Lab just kept logging them off one after another but imagine everything you worked for in the virtual world destroyed in a matter of minutes that is how bad it can become. I have been there, I have paid back my enemies, still paying back my enemies, and most them sneak off quietly to try to start a new life, but beleive me even those 3 years ago who did serious copyright infringement to friends I knew, I  will never forget.

So for those of you who wonder about giving out info in verified groups, Don't do it as it can often lead to internet trolling, griefing, and if you decide to piss off the wrong kitty and smack the wild cat, that kitty and its mommy just might run out and chase you down forever.

[Orca Flotta]

Oh my, big fat poroblem now

How can I ever verify to any group that I'm indeed a lesbian communist bunny vampire spoiled millionaire not politically correct brat goddess that is giving the bestest blowjobs ever and is wanted by the CIA for terrorist activities?

It's all true. I'm also the legitimate lovechild of Mahatma Gandi and Mother Theresa.

And you just gotta believe me!!! Cause it' is the  truth, cross my heart and hope to die.

 

:smileyvery-happy:

[Perrie Juran]

Stalking sux.  Getting stalked sux.  I don't think any of us here question that.

But why do you insist on promulgating so much fear with your posts?  The way they read you might as well just be telling people don't go on the Interwebs and especially stay away from SL because BAD THINGS ARE GOING TO HAPPEN and to be extra safe never leave your room in RL.

[Eileen Fellstein]

---

Verena Vuckovic wrote:

Something strikes me as being increasingly absurd within SL.

On the one hand, we have Lindens promoting the right to absolute 'privacy', right down to even trying to enforce the correct display of avatar online status and prevent people circumventing it. And yet....on the other hand we have increasing

pressure

upon people to reveal and be their 'real' selves. Not just through the promotion of links to Facebook, etc, but also through the ever increasing rise of, for example, groups with titles such as ' Verified RL...( substitute some RL attribute ).

Now you might argue that it is entirely down to people to what extent they hide or reveal info. But really, that is not the way things actually *work* in SL. The rise of groups such as 'Verified RL Female', for example, puts increasing pressure on anyone ( be they really female or not ) to 'verify' or

be excluded

.

That strikes me as being totally at odds with the general principle of the right to absolute privacy. If something as

mere

as online status is so sacrosanct......yet something like 'true' gender can be forcibly revealed through peer pressure....then we have a fundamental contradiction at the heart of SL.

In my view, any group with title such as ' Verified RL.....' runs totally counter to the whole ethos of SL. The very existence of any such group implies that one does NOT have the right to such privacy. One has to wonder, then, why Lindens allow such groups to exist.

 

---

Without reading the 7 pages of comments (probably a yet), I have run accross this...

I immediately left

This type of place will not see the support of my lindens or my dot EVER.

My opinion is it's against the spirit of the ToS if not the letter of it, but I'll let the lawyer types here sort that out.

I will also support any action in world that is moving to have practices like these abolished in SL, so long as it doesn't get into the realm of griefing. Contact me in world if there's a way I can help.

 

[161488303349]

---

Orca Flotta wrote:

Oh my, big fat poroblem now

How can I ever verify to any group that I'm indeed a lesbian communist bunny vampire spoiled millionaire not politically correct brat goddess that is giving the bestest blowjobs ever and is wanted by the CIA for terrorist activities?

It's all true. I'm also the legitimate lovechild of Mahatma Gandi and Mother Theresa.

And you just gotta believe me!!! Cause it' is the  truth, cross my heart and hope to die.

 

:smileyvery-happy:

---

am pretty sure there is already a group been made for that. search on FASHION keyword

jejejee (: 

[Ceka Cianci]

---

Eileen Fellstein wrote:

---

Verena Vuckovic wrote:

Something strikes me as being increasingly absurd within SL.

On the one hand, we have Lindens promoting the right to absolute 'privacy', right down to even trying to enforce the correct display of avatar online status and prevent people circumventing it. And yet....on the other hand we have increasing

pressure

upon people to reveal and be their 'real' selves. Not just through the promotion of links to Facebook, etc, but also through the ever increasing rise of, for example, groups with titles such as ' Verified RL...( substitute some RL attribute ).

Now you might argue that it is entirely down to people to what extent they hide or reveal info. But really, that is not the way things actually *work* in SL. The rise of groups such as 'Verified RL Female', for example, puts increasing pressure on anyone ( be they really female or not ) to 'verify' or

be excluded

.

That strikes me as being totally at odds with the general principle of the right to absolute privacy. If something as

mere

as online status is so sacrosanct......yet something like 'true' gender can be forcibly revealed through peer pressure....then we have a fundamental contradiction at the heart of SL.

In my view, any group with title such as ' Verified RL.....' runs totally counter to the whole ethos of SL. The very existence of any such group implies that one does NOT have the right to such privacy. One has to wonder, then, why Lindens allow such groups to exist.

 

---

Without reading the 7 pages of comments (probably a yet), I have run accross this...

I immediately left

This type of place will not see the support of my lindens or my dot EVER.

My opinion is it's against the spirit of the ToS if not the letter of it, but I'll let the lawyer types here sort that out.

I will also support any action in world that is moving to have practices like these abolished in SL, so long as it doesn't get into the realm of griefing. Contact me in world if there's a way I can help.

 

---

it's not a place..

itis private groups..

ones that people can willingly opt in to join if they like rather than be forced to join..

it is what the group asks of people that may be wanting to join their private group..

if people don't want to join it they don't have to..

not much that is against the TOS in these kind of groups..especially since they are fully opt in..

not like they are scanning for private information in a sim..it's all opt in to give information..even after they join..

hehehe

 

[Eileen Fellstein]

---

Ceka Cianci wrote:

---

Eileen Fellstein wrote:

---

Verena Vuckovic wrote:

Something strikes me as being increasingly absurd within SL.

On the one hand, we have Lindens promoting the right to absolute 'privacy', right down to even trying to enforce the correct display of avatar online status and prevent people circumventing it. And yet....on the other hand we have increasing

pressure

upon people to reveal and be their 'real' selves. Not just through the promotion of links to Facebook, etc, but also through the ever increasing rise of, for example, groups with titles such as ' Verified RL...( substitute some RL attribute ).

Now you might argue that it is entirely down to people to what extent they hide or reveal info. But really, that is not the way things actually *work* in SL. The rise of groups such as 'Verified RL Female', for example, puts increasing pressure on anyone ( be they really female or not ) to 'verify' or

be excluded

.

That strikes me as being totally at odds with the general principle of the right to absolute privacy. If something as

mere

as online status is so sacrosanct......yet something like 'true' gender can be forcibly revealed through peer pressure....then we have a fundamental contradiction at the heart of SL.

In my view, any group with title such as ' Verified RL.....' runs totally counter to the whole ethos of SL. The very existence of any such group implies that one does NOT have the right to such privacy. One has to wonder, then, why Lindens allow such groups to exist.

 

---

Without reading the 7 pages of comments (probably a yet), I have run accross this...

I immediately left

This type of place will not see the support of my lindens or my dot EVER.

My opinion is it's against the spirit of the ToS if not the letter of it, but I'll let the lawyer types here sort that out.

I will also support any action in world that is moving to have practices like these abolished in SL, so long as it doesn't get into the realm of griefing. Contact me in world if there's a way I can help.

 

---

it's not a place..

itis private groups..

ones that people can willingly opt in to join if they like rather than be forced to join..

it is what the group asks of people that may be wanting to join their private group..

if people don't want to join it they don't have to..

not much that is against the TOS in these kind of groups..especially since they are fully opt in..

not like they are scanning for private information in a sim..it's all opt in to give information..even after they join..

hehehe

 

---

Private group, private land I agree whole heartedly. The place I was at was a club on public land in adult that was advertised through the search. (The verified gender stuff was NOT part of the add. I would have never gone if it were)

I understand I wasn't required to verify gender to spend money there or join their vip (to receive event notices) group, nor did I chose to join anyhow. I still agree with OP that this sort of thing detracts from the idea that we can make the life we choose here.

Whether it's a rule violation or not, it's pressure, as OP said. But there's ways to apply pressure back. This post was a good start. Talking with your money is another. Don't spend a linden there if you disagree with what they are doing. Don't have your avatar there to support their traffic. Create groups the exact opposite of that.

[Ceka Cianci]

---

Eileen Fellstein wrote:

---

Ceka Cianci wrote:

---

Eileen Fellstein wrote:

---

Verena Vuckovic wrote:

Something strikes me as being increasingly absurd within SL.

On the one hand, we have Lindens promoting the right to absolute 'privacy', right down to even trying to enforce the correct display of avatar online status and prevent people circumventing it. And yet....on the other hand we have increasing

pressure

upon people to reveal and be their 'real' selves. Not just through the promotion of links to Facebook, etc, but also through the ever increasing rise of, for example, groups with titles such as ' Verified RL...( substitute some RL attribute ).

Now you might argue that it is entirely down to people to what extent they hide or reveal info. But really, that is not the way things actually *work* in SL. The rise of groups such as 'Verified RL Female', for example, puts increasing pressure on anyone ( be they really female or not ) to 'verify' or

be excluded

.

That strikes me as being totally at odds with the general principle of the right to absolute privacy. If something as

mere

as online status is so sacrosanct......yet something like 'true' gender can be forcibly revealed through peer pressure....then we have a fundamental contradiction at the heart of SL.

In my view, any group with title such as ' Verified RL.....' runs totally counter to the whole ethos of SL. The very existence of any such group implies that one does NOT have the right to such privacy. One has to wonder, then, why Lindens allow such groups to exist.

 

---

Without reading the 7 pages of comments (probably a yet), I have run accross this...

I immediately left

This type of place will not see the support of my lindens or my dot EVER.

My opinion is it's against the spirit of the ToS if not the letter of it, but I'll let the lawyer types here sort that out.

I will also support any action in world that is moving to have practices like these abolished in SL, so long as it doesn't get into the realm of griefing. Contact me in world if there's a way I can help.

 

---

it's not a place..

itis private groups..

ones that people can willingly opt in to join if they like rather than be forced to join..

it is what the group asks of people that may be wanting to join their private group..

if people don't want to join it they don't have to..

not much that is against the TOS in these kind of groups..especially since they are fully opt in..

not like they are scanning for private information in a sim..it's all opt in to give information..even after they join..

hehehe

 

---

Private group, private land I agree whole heartedly. The place I was at was a club on public land in adult that was advertised through the search. (The verified gender stuff was NOT part of the add. I would have never gone if it were)

I understand I wasn't required to verify gender to spend money there or join their vip (to receive event notices) group, nor did I chose to join anyhow. I still agree with OP that this sort of thing detracts from the idea that we can make the life we choose here.

Whether it's a rule violation or not, it's pressure, as OP said. But there's ways to apply pressure back. This post was a good start. Talking with your money is another. Don't spend a linden there if you disagree with what they are doing. Don't have your avatar there to support their traffic. Create groups the exact opposite of that.

---

it's not public land even if it is in search..it's  land in search that has been opened up to the public..

linden land is public..

you did what you are supossed to do..you didn't like them for what they do or  how they are and left..

that will do more damage to them than letting it take over any part of your second life by giving them another thought..

the way these places get freely advertised is just like this here..

remember when peope would complain about all the sex and junk going on in second life somewhere outside of it..like the news? then 20 to 30 k new logins would show up on the grid?

the only way it can detract how we can make  the life we want here is if we let it...

because it is limited to their regions and groups..if they step outside those safe zones..they break the rules..then we B!tch slap them hard hehehehe

 

 

 

 

 

[Verena Vuckovic]

"My opinion is it's against the spirit of the ToS if not the letter of it"

 

That is precisely my point. It may not be a direct violation of TOS......but it is most certainly designed to circumvent it.

The point is this :-  Imagine if these groups were not relatively small but  contained tens of thousands of members. Those unwilling to 'verify' would find themselves marginalised. Instead of privacy being the norm, peer pressure would ensure that revealing RL info was the norm.

That is the whole purpose of such groups. They are effectively an attempt to to build up sufficient members that TOS becomes irrelevant because there's an unspoken pressure to comply.

[Ceka Cianci]

---

Verena Vuckovic wrote:

"My opinion is it's against the spirit of the ToS if not the letter of it"

 

That is precisely my point. It may not be a direct violation of TOS......but it is most certainly designed to circumvent it.

The point is this :-  Imagine if these groups were

not

relatively small but  contained tens of thousands of members. Those unwilling to 'verify' would find themselves marginalised. Instead of privacy being the norm, peer pressure would ensure that revealing RL info was the norm.

That is the whole

purpose

of such groups. They are effectively an attempt to to build up sufficient members that TOS becomes irrelevant because there's an unspoken pressure to comply.

---

the reason these sex groups  like that exist..is because those people in it want to know who they are fapping with..if it is a  real man or real woman..

there is no conspiracy to take over the grid hehehehe

because they would never get the tens of thousands that would join it..

did you miss the whole redzone thing last year? so many people came out against that  that LL adjusted the TOS and banned it and anything like it..

these groups are doing nothing but being straight forward not hiding a thing when they tell you what it is going to take to join their group..

they are sex groups and thats it..they are horny people looking to fap..conspiracy is probabyl the last thing on their minds hehehe

[Perrie Juran]

---

Verena Vuckovic wrote:

"My opinion is it's against the spirit of the ToS if not the letter of it"

 

That is precisely my point. It may not be a direct violation of TOS......but it is most certainly designed to circumvent it.

The point is this :-  Imagine if these groups were

not

relatively small but  contained tens of thousands of members. Those unwilling to 'verify' would find themselves marginalised. Instead of privacy being the norm, peer pressure would ensure that revealing RL info was the norm.

That is the whole

purpose

of such groups. They are effectively an attempt to to build up sufficient members that TOS becomes irrelevant because there's an unspoken pressure to comply.

---

Conversely, if voice verification was the norm you could start a group or groups that required you not be 'voice verified' to join.

The pressure is only in your own mind.

As in any activity in SL, you always have a choice.

[Senobia Xenga]

---

Verena Vuckovic wrote:

Ah....well in that case you really need to look into the group 'Verified RL Blind As A Bat'

---

Unless or until your ability to be in Second Life and partake in what it has to offer hinges SOLEY on whether or not you are a tag-wearing member of one of those groups, you DO have a choice,  you DON'T have a valid point and you ARE welcome to log off at the time and place of your choosing and never look back.

[161488303349]

^^ that