NEW GAMING GUIDELINES HURTS GAMING SIMS

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Katinka Baxton wrote:

And you call yourself a helper ? Thanks for your "answers"

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Funny, this is the first actual question posted... I didn't see you or the OP post a question.

[Bobbie Faulds]

Actually, a premium account is $9.95 USD monthly, $22.50 USD Quarterly and $72 USD yearly. With that you get 300L per week. If you pay yearly, you end up paying about $7 USD yearly when you take into account the Linden stipend. With that, you also can get a free house. Pretty good deal if you ask me. Even montly, you get aboiut $5USD in Lindens so you're actually only payint $4 USD a month. Not sure what the conversion is with the VAT.

As for gaming, Seems I heard this same kind of whining when gambling was outlawed in SL...It's going to fold, no one will spend any money..etc...turns out that gambling was really not as big a part of the SL economy as some thought it was...just saying.

[Qie Niangao]

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Katinka Baxton wrote:

And you call yourself a helper ? Thanks for your "answers"

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Is there any way of knowing whether this thread started in Answers and was migrated over here to General Discussion by a Moderator, or it started out here?

Not that it especially matters. It's just that I wouldn't want General Discussion to get a reputation for being helpful, as opposed to ridiculing the clueless for our own amusement.

Hey, we all need hobbies.

[Griffin Ceawlin]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

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Katinka Baxton wrote:

And you call yourself a helper ? Thanks for your "answers"

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Is there any way of knowing whether this thread started in Answers and was migrated over here to General Discussion by a Moderator, or it started out here?

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It should say " Moved: [Thread Title]" in the thread list, no? Or, rather, a new thread gets created with that title, along with a post pointing to the moved thread.

But no, it was born here and here it will die.

Hopefully, quickly.

Edit: Fixed arrow.

[Monti Messmer]

This new rule won´t kill SL more or less than the bad RL economy or the competition from other social media or ...

The bigger problem than whole gaming sims is the sims with maybe a greedy table or whatever. It´s pointless for them to go through the whole application process and especial if the creator of the "game" doesn´t exist anymore or don´t want to bother.

Anyway this is not a Linden rule it´s US Law so complaining here doesn´t help. However the implementation in SL is bad. Gaming Sims have to pay a special fee ? Why ?

That point might push them out of buisness.

Hope that is serious enough for you.

To above posters. He doesn´t have to ask a question, this is the general discussion forum ;-)

Monti

[ObviousAltIsObvious]

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HarleyRainn wrote:

Now that there are new guildlines to gaming, the usual gaming sims we normally visit have new restrictions so now that sim can't be visited anymore, this hurts the gaming sims, they cough up a good 100 dollars to keep it going,

we verified once already to visit 'adult' sims, what are your thoughts

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the gaming operators who signed up are doing all right, there has been more business for them because there is less competition. the access changes give them a stronger pool of players, more likely to have real money to spend on the games. in the wider SL economy, other exploitable resources will turn up sooner or later for free riders, they always do.

[Phil Deakins]

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Monti Messmer wrote:

This new rule won´t kill SL more or less than the bad RL economy or the competition from other social media or ...

The bigger problem than whole gaming sims is the sims with maybe a greedy table or whatever

. It´s pointless for them to go through the whole application process and especial if the creator of the "game" doesn´t exist anymore or don´t want to bother.

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I know you only used Greedy as an example, but just out of interest, the creator of Greedy Greedy updated it so that it can no longer be set to accept money to play, which means that the current table can be used anywhere. The previous version cannot be used anywhere now because the creator isn't applying for a license, so it can't be used outside or inside skill gaming sims.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Monti Messmer wrote:

Gaming Sims have to pay a special fee ? Why ?

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As LL explained, they are required to monitor the sims to make sure there is no gambling going on, that all games offered are approved, and that the owner's are licensed.  It is not a one time thing, but an ongoing requirement that will cost them time and money.  Why shouldn't the people that profit from gaming not have to pay these expenses especially because they can be deducted from their taxes as a business expense.  LL is a for profit business not a charity.  If the people profiting from gaming didn't pay these expenses they would be passed off to all customers in some way.  Why would that be fair?

[sloowdown]

The skilled gaming in SL will fail because it is not allowed to have competetion. The owners are keeping lets say 35-50% hold % on the games. thats why gaming is not big in SL. LL is the one that should be getting the Legal opinions not the operators which is what will lead to a whole lot of issues. You cant have a gaming policy without having a gaming policy! I mean Zyngo which all the games are a version of that or solitaire are not games of skill no matter how you disect it.

[Sassy Romano]

You don't appear to understand. LL have no interest in certifying anything, they don't have any need to obtain legal opinion. The policy is 100% ass covering by placing the liability firmly in the hands of those creating and operating games.

 

LL doesn't care if games are successful or not.

[sloowdown]

I understand your point but maybe you just dont seem to understand. The owner of the server will be responsible for the content on it in the end. LL will make sure all is ok as they will control the gaming, who does it and the type that is done. So maybe you could understand it a bit more or look at it in a different way. you see simple there is no electronic gaming that is legal without a license to operate period. Poker is Legal here in Nevada but you must live in Nevada to play. LL will make money from the applications they deny and approve and the cost increase on the sims for people that think they can operate a casino when in fact all you will be doing is paying them to put their own games out on their own servers. You will only see the same few types of games as that is the way they decided to go. I bet theese new servers are on a Indian reservation with partners of a tribe. 

You see all is never just what you see and to quote the policy to me does not make me blind. All LL is doing is have people pay to have the land to run the games they create and pay for the legal foot work it is a great move unless people see it and i see it. Sometimes we cant see the forest for the trees my friend!

[Bobbie Faulds]

Biggest thing to remember with all this, LL isn't doing this arbitrarily or because the want to. When a policy is implemented like this, it's usally because of government requirements. Blaiming LL for it is wrong.

LL stopped gambling for several reasons...Some owners weren't funding their places and players were reporting to LL. Some countries were considering the gambling as offshore for their countries. Biggest was the IRS in the US wanted LL to start issuing the 1099 forms for gambling winnings like they do when you cash out in Las Vegas. LL didn't want to have to deal with all the legal requirements and expense so chose to end gambling altogether. I'm sure the gaming rules have come into play for similar reasons.

[sloowdown]

Yes i agree with you on they are not doing this on thier own but the real biggest thing to remember is "INTERNET GAMBLING IS ILLEGAL" regardless of what policy LL or anyone else writes lol. Skilled games are somewhat legal but there is a fine line as skilled gaming has not been defined as a whole. LL is the one who are putting out these games as they are willing to have that fight in california on the reservation they have the severs or where ever they have them. LL is doing this for one reason and one reason only. To increase revenue, it has nothing to do with anything else. My point is this, they are not allowing others in the game they are allowing a monopoly to exist with whoever they chose to be involved. The monopoly is they are the owners of the land, games and everything. They don't want anyone to come in with new games that will upset the 3 front people they have running the games now and so called creating them lol I seen this in the 60's this is no new show! If a person comes in and only keeps 3-8% of the money put in it would kill the games they have. I did the math on a greedy game with a average of 10-14 players on it playing 24 hours a day and that comes out for 1 game to 112,000 a year they are making a killing. Even when you win you will lose, the greedy game keeps 35% and the people that are playing are the hosts and their friends so you play long enough you have no chance to win. Looked at some of the other game and it is even up and in some case more than 50% tell me how you can have a gaming policy and allow that type of thing? the point is this is no gaming policy it is a rate increase and new revenue source!

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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sloowdown wrote:

Yes i agree with you on they are not doing this on thier own but the real biggest thing to remember is "INTERNET GAMBLING IS ILLEGAL" regardless of what policy LL or anyone else writes lol. Skilled games are somewhat legal but there is a fine line as skilled gaming has not been defined as a whole.

Here ya go...

Skilled Gaming Defined.

LL is the one who are putting out these games as they are willing to have that fight in california on the reservation they have the severs or where ever they have them.

No, they are allowing people to create these games and sell them. LL takes 5% of each sale of the item from the Marketplace. LL does NOT put these games out there.

LL is doing this for one reason and one reason only. To increase revenue, it has nothing to do with anything else.

Well, they ARE a business...

My point is this, they are not allowing others in the game they are allowing a monopoly to exist with whoever they chose to be involved. The monopoly is they are the owners of the land, games and everything.

Again, LL does not own the games. Nor do they sell them.

They don't want anyone to come in with new games that will upset the 3 front people they have running the games now and so called creating them lol I seen this in the 60's this is no new show!

Ah, I see the wacky tobaccky hasn't worn off from then yet.

If a person comes in and only keeps 3-8% of the money put in it would kill the games they have. I did the math on a greedy game with a average of 10-14 players on it playing 24 hours a day and that comes out for 1 game to 112,000 a year they are making a killing.

Huh? Who is keeping this money? LL? the creator? The game owner?

Even when you win you will lose, the greedy game keeps 35% and the people that are playing are the hosts and their friends so you play long enough you have no chance to win.

I have yet to see a greedy game not pay out the full balance put into it.

Looked at some of the other game and it is even up and in some case more than 50% tell me how you can have a gaming policy and allow that type of thing? the point is this is no gaming policy it is a rate increase and new revenue source!

Not sure what you are babbling about here.

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[sloowdown]

Well i assume you must be one of the employees ... oops sorry game creators. Good luck as I dont have to defend my opinion just putting it out there.

but just for the record let me answer:

Yes i agree with you on they are not doing this on thier own but the real biggest thing to remember is "INTERNET GAMBLING IS ILLEGAL" regardless of what policy LL or anyone else writes lol. Skilled games are somewhat legal but there is a fine line as skilled gaming has not been defined as a whole.

Here ya go... Skilled Gaming Defined.

Here you go gaming defined http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-463.html

LL is the one who are putting out these games as they are willing to have that fight in california on the reservation they have the severs or where ever they have them.

No, they are allowing people to create these games and sell them. LL takes 5% of each sale of the item from the Marketplace. LL does NOT put these games out there.

No they are allowing the people they choose to create these games and how can you tell me there are just 3 people who can be approved if it is really 3 people and not one and could also be an employee of just one department? Don't believe all you read but sounds like you are an employee or one of the 3 who are approcved either way it is shady!

LL is doing this for one reason and one reason only. To increase revenue, it has nothing to do with anything else.

Well, they ARE a business...

Iunderstand they are a business but so am I and I also know what free trade is and open markets and what a monopoloy is.

My point is this, they are not allowing others in the game they are allowing a monopoly to exist with whoever they chose to be involved. The monopoly is they are the owners of the land, games and everything.

Again, LL does not own the games. Nor do they sell them.

says who? You? Well I dont know you or anything about you all I know is you jumped right in as if you have information on it. Are you one of the creators? I ask just to see what you say lol.

They don't want anyone to come in with new games that will upset the 3 front people they have running the games now and so called creating them lol I seen this in the 60's this is no new show!

Ah, I see the wacky tobaccky hasn't worn off from then yet.

this is how you answer with alledged drug use of a person you dont even know? You expect to be taken serious with that type of comment and think it does not show a bias at all?

If a person comes in and only keeps 3-8% of the money put in it would kill the games they have. I did the math on a greedy game with a average of 10-14 players on it playing 24 hours a day and that comes out for 1 game to 112,000 a year they are making a killing.

Huh? Who is keeping this money? LL? the creator? The game owner?

Huh??? read it! Thats my question who is keeping the money, thinking the 3 amigos are keeping it lol! 

Even when you win you will lose, the greedy game keeps 35% and the people that are playing are the hosts and their friends so you play long enough you have no chance to win.

I have yet to see a greedy game not pay out the full balance put into it.

I have please don't insult my intellegence! 

Looked at some of the other game and it is even up and in some case more than 50% tell me how you can have a gaming policy and allow that type of thing? the point is this is no gaming policy it is a rate increase and new revenue source!

Not sure what you are babbling about here

I am babbling about the hold % of the games that are as high as 50% thats is usery. No gaming policy would allow anyone to keep those type of hold % as it is like stealing. There is in no way that what LL has put out is to be considered a gaming policy it is BS!A game is something you have the chance to win which you don't with those games and payouts they are giving now!

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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sloowdown wrote:

Well i assume you must be one of theemployees ... oops sorry game creators. Good luck as I dont have to defend my opinion just putting it out there.

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Well then, if your opinion is undefendable then it isn't worth taking the time to read.. Have a nice day. And bless your heart.

[Sassy Romano]

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sloowdown wrote:

 "INTERNET GAMBLING IS ILLEGAL" regardless of what policy LL or anyone else writes lol. Skilled games are somewhat legal but there is a fine line as skilled gaming has not been defined as a whole.

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This is where you're again missing the point but you stated it right there.

LL REQUIRES that creators and operators provide a legal opinion that these are GAMES OF SKILL and NOT gambling.

That is precisely why LL puts the onus on the creator/operator environment.

LL is NOT creating a policy that permits gambling and just to be precise, it's Internet gambling in the US or rather for US hosted operations that's illegal, we get TV adverts for online gambling here.  In no ways is "Internet gambling illegal" but I accept that i'm being pedantic here.

Bottom line is that LL couldn't give a stuff whether skill gaming succeeds or not, they haven't created a policy that promotes success or fail, they're just not bothered.  They're ONLY bothered about covering their legal ass with this policy, nothing more, not a smidgen.

(Plus, side point but really, WHO CARES?  If you really want to gamble online, just do it, use foreign hosted systems, why bother about what happens in SL?  That's the bit I don't understand)

[Dillon Levenque]

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sloowdown wrote:

Well i assume you must be one of theemployees ... oops sorry game creators. Good luck as I dont have to defend my opinion just putting it out there.

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Well, you don't have to defend your opinion but since it's a forum it is traditional to at least make an attempt. You appear to misunderstand a lot of things that are going on regarding skill gaming in SL, so it's not surprising that people have taken issue with your comments.

You say that LL is just doing 'this' to increase revenue. That's pretty unlikely. The screams from the gaming sim operators, which are still echoing through the ether, were that it would cut LL's revenue off at the knees! The hugely profitable revenue-producing players would leave SL forever in a mass exodus, and the collapse in tier revenue from the resulting sim closures would bankrupt LL in a week. Fortnight, tops. I'm not sure that's true, but I'm willing to believe a few sims closed and some income was thus lost to LL.

You don't seem to understand that the skill gaming policy isn't LL introducing the ability to have skill games in SL. They were already here. They've been here for years, Once, there were even full-on gambling casinos with blackjack and roulette and slots. That kind of gambling was made against the rules, and the result was the so-called skill game policy defining which games were allowed.

Now, almost certainly in an attempt be be compliant with LAWS passed in LL's jurisidiction (California, US), the skill gaming rules have been made even more restrictive. LL is leaving the burden of compliance entirely on the people who want to profit from the games: the creators and the sim operators. The Lab, as Sassy pointed out earlier, is merely covering its collective ass. If the IRS or the ATF or some Gambling Commission comes calling, LL can say, "We told them the rules. See, it says so right here. It's up to them to lawyer up if you say they aren't legal".

 

edited for their, there and some minor clarifications

[sloowdown]

Do you really believe you are responsible for what is done on LL servers to anyone other than LL. LL is responsible for it all.

Yes they will lose revenue because they lost mine, just saying. and people being upset of my posts i dont really care as it seems it is only 2 or 3 where did i get that number from before...... ohj 2 or 3 approved operators lol. I am out of it so they can do what they want! Just spoke on the phone with LL and they have no clue what the hell is going on not at all!

[Sassy Romano]

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sloowdown wrote:

ohj 2 or 3 approved operators lol. I am out of it so they can do what they want! Just spoke on the phone with LL and they have no clue what the hell is going on not at all!

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Again, they don't care, they don't need to care.  Go and gamble online, surely it's simpler and offers a wider choice of options than the limited set of inworld scripted prim things that are in SL?

[Bobbie Faulds]

All of this sounds like the same doom and gloom I heard back when gambling was removed from the grid and SL is still here.

[sloowdown]

You i must tell you that you dont even read the post and comment. i am not talking as a person who wants to gamble but a person who wants to be yout competetion. It is so obvious you have a interest that you cant see me for anything other than a consumer of gaming and not a person who wants to operate. That makes you an idiot! i dont like to call names but you talk and dont listen.

Just so you know Ll does care if it succeeds because they need money bad. They are in big trouble with the new things coming and they have kept people hostage with the things they have in world that amount to so much money they just wont leave. Have you not noticed the age of the average user in SL? No young new users mean bye bye. So they do this good idea buit they just dont know what the hell they are doing. You run out and buy the land on the server they own so they can put the machines they control on the land you pay them to use and then on top they take 50% of the profits from the machines, its called pimping!!

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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sloowdown wrote:

You i must tell you that you dont even read the post and comment. i am not talking as a person who wants to gamble but a person who wants to be yout competetion. It is so obvious you have a interest that you cant see me for anything other than a consumer of gaming and not a person who wants to operate. That makes you an idiot! i dont like to call names but you talk and dont listen.

Just so you know Ll does care if it succeeds because they need money bad. They are in big trouble with the new things coming and they have kept people hostage with the things they have in world that amount to so much money they just wont leave. Have you not noticed the age of the average user in SL? No young new users mean bye bye. So they do this good idea buit they just dont know what the hell they are doing. You run out and buy the land on the server they own so they can put the machines they control on the land you pay them to use and then on top they take 50% of the profits from the machines, its called pimping!!

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and yet again.. LL does not own the machines.. You really need to put a penny on the needle dude. Record is skipping bad.

[sloowdown]

Well i am out of it and dont care either way at this point good luck lol!!

[Dillon Levenque]

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sloowdown wrote:

Do you really believe you are responsible for what is done on LL servers to anyone other than LL. LL is responsible for it all.

Yes they will lose revenue because they lost mine, just saying. and people being upset of my posts i dont really care as it seems it is only 2 or 3 where did i get that number from before...... ohj 2 or 3 approved operators lol. I am out of it so they can do what they want! Just spoke on the phone with LL and they have no clue what the hell is going on not at all!

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I have no clue how you got the idea that I believe I'm responsible for anything that is done on LL servers, but trust me when I tell you I do not in fact believe that; I have zero personal influence on LL. I am a customer so my influence is included in that of the 'customer base' (that group of people that wants to give a company money: some companies woo them with passion, some seem to take them for granted*).

I think the only person 'upset' as regards your posts is you. You do seem pretty upset to me. I'm not upset at all about your posts; I just tried to point out some things I thought you did not understand. I can understand the fact  you're upset; it's pretty apparent that something in the skill gaming policy is going to do one of two things: reduce a source of income you were already enjoying from SL, or reduce a source of income you were planning on enjoying from SL.

I get that you're upset. If I had looked at Second Life and how it works, decided I saw a path to gaining income from Second Life, then found out after I'd invested some very real personal time and possibly some very real money that some rules had changed and I was now screwed as regards making that nice income, I'd be upset too.

I'd just know with whom to be upset. From reading your posts, you don't seem to have acquired that knowledge yet.

 

ETA the footnote I'd intended to add when I dropped the asterisk up there

*and some seem to vacillate between those two attitudes. I'll name no names.