NiranV Dean

No. Getting hardware that can run SL is neither expensive nor hard. A 300$ budget PC can run SL with Deferred Rendering and shadows just fine. Wait. THEY DID THAT ON PURPOSE?! Ffffff... well guess that explains the infinite unreliability of offline notice attachments... and i was so going to try to fix that. Why LL, why?

It would be interesting to hear what you think on release cycles. How should they be done? Manual updates? Auto updates? How fast should a Viewer be updated? Every day? Every week? A month? What do you think are the pro's and con's of each? Personally i'm all for full forced "latest only" updates somewhere around every week. If necessary as fast as possible. Why though? First off, let's get into some of the issues specific to SL. SL is a MMO, it is an online world with millions of people, around 40-60k online at any given time, most of the time. It needs constant maintenance and is in constant development and with a real currency backing it up it is also a target for security issues that need patching ASAP. I think a 1 to 2 week update cycle would be fine for the general maintenance and bugfixing here. Critical issues such as the Viewer completely refusing to work suddenly or even security issues should have a much faster frequency and if necessary should be patched the day they have been discovered, if necessary on the very day the previous update was made public. This ensures that we get constant updates, bugfixes and probably new features in a timely manner and are never experiencing frustrating bugs and or showstoppers for too long. Second Life isn't exactly a big application either, with just merely 100-200MB it is exceptionally small and a perfect candidate for quick updates unlike some bigger applications which remedy this issue by offering actual patches rather than the entire application unless needed. I've heard many complains in the past about forced updates and fast release cycles though. Let me address them: I don't want to be forced to update, i'm fine with my version, i know best which version i want. (The "never change a running system" type) First off, no you don't. I can assure you that you definitely don't know whats best for you. The developers that have been spending all their time to make the Viewer as good as possible know much better what's good for you because chances are big they have also spend a great deal making it good for you in the process, besides these developers just want the best for you and the best is clearly a new version that is as good as the old but it contains even more bugfixes for issues, maybe even those you complained so much about. I have had so many people tell me they use version X for reason Y. There is never a reason to silently use version X. If you use version X because version Y is not working as good for you maybe you should have used it earlier and told the developers about it, they might want to investigate and fix it if its not on purpose. Which creates the subtype of people who don't like where the Viewer is going, maybe decreased performance, maybe loss of a feature, maybe something entirely different but going forward you have no choice except to accept your defeat in this matter. If the developers decide to change something once and for all, there will be nothing you can do about it, maybe said change was directly forced by LL. Hiding behind your older version is not going to help, this older version is not going to get bugfixes, security fixes, new features and is also unsupported and might get you a very stupid support answer, its your own fault after all. Sometimes issues simply cannot prevented and you'd do better for your own sake (and that of everyone else) by using the latest version and report the issues to the developers, they can't fix what they are not aware of after all. I was already personally "insulted" as doing a Microsoft, yea i get it, i'm not a fan of their Windows 10 forced updates either but force-updating your basic OS with giant updates that require your OS to restart, often break lots of applications and at the end of the day make the OS even worse than it was before (yea... Windows 10 is like that) is something entirely different to a single application wanting to stay up to date, what's the worst thing that could happen? Yea your Viewer breaks down whoopdiedoo, report the issue and get another one for the time being. I don't want to be annoyed with constant downloads of the Viewer. Look, i respect your opinion on this but... wait no i don't. Your reason is completely flawed, you are constantly downloading stuff, in and out of SL, you are downloading gigabytes worth of content every day. Doing a quick update before starting is not going to hurt you. I have limited internet bandwidth. Ugh. This is a difficult one but it all essentially boils down to, "tough luck". To be honest if you are on a tight bandwidth budget you REALLY shouldn't be using SL in the first place. It is the epitome of wasted download bandwidth only followed by Ark: Survival Evolved and its 50gb "small" updates. Sure you can throttle your bandwidth down but in the end this is not going to help, have you ever thought what limiting down your bandwidth does? Nothing, it slows down the download, which at the end of the day has to be done, slow or fast and it will impact your Viewer's performance. As long as the Viewer remains in "download" mode it has severely lowered performance, don't do this to your Viewer, it likes you and you put it through this painfully slow download for no good reason. Faster updates mean lower quality and less testing translating to more bugs. This is only half true. Regardless of how much rigorous testing you put an update through, the public will always find more issues than any testing team could ever hope to find. Testing your updates is one thing but... but having it go live is something entirely different. I've seen so many games test updates for weeks, months nonstop just to have the update break down spectacularly the moment you start it, crashing, rendering bugs, lags, clipping, missing textures, absolutely everything, the entire palette of bugs, i'm sure the devs spontaneously combusted when they saw this happen after so much testing. I mean i'm sure developers make sure that they at least test the basic functionality of changes they add and that's good but beyond some basic and maybe some extra big of testing, that's pretty much it, you the users will always find bugs, always and the sooner you do the better for us... and for you. In the end, the amount of bugs is very dependent on each developer, some make more mistakes, some make less. I've blown my builds up so often in a spectacular but unforeseen way, it's hilarious and if you find a small issue, a button not working or something behaving weird, congratulations you can't imagine how many bugs didn't make it into this version. Everything else: Whatever the reason may be, whether you don't want to wait a minute or two before starting or you hate increasing version numbers, don't like changelogs or don't care for the development of the very tool you keep using to access what seems to be a big part of your life, no matter what you say at the end of the day it is important that the Viewer stays up to date and ASAP, the faster everyone jumps to the latest version, the faster bugs can be found, things can be tested and development can continue. In the end, fast update cycles are the way to go, they make sure development never halts and they occasionally give you some new toys way sooner so you can start breaking them earlier and we can start improving them faster.

The poser can move you anywhere as long as it isn't too far from your actual position (allowing more than 20 units would just make it much harder to get the right position you want). A summary of what the poser can do: It can alter all default bones. It can alter all "extended" bones (bento). It can alter all attachment bones. It can alter all collision volumes (shape slider riggings). It can rotate all bones. It can position all bones that do support it. It can scale all bones. It can pose animesh. It can save/load poses locally. It can animate and interpolate between saved poses to create "animations" It can animate animesh. It has incredible precision in rotating, positioning and scaling. It does not require any rezzed object to function, it can be used anywhere, anytime. The two things it can't do (yet): Synchronize your pose to others. Export animations or poses in a uploadable format. And the one thing i will never be allowed to let it do: Use it on other avatars. An example of what the poser can do, fully inworld:

We won't get fleximesh. Although we could technically have it at any time. Different implementations would allow something like physically correct calculated clothing physics, it would be a matter of designating a few bones or collision volumes for that and rigging to them to allow the viewer to apply flexi-similar physical calculations. Though with our unoptimized junk that goes around in SL you'd make short work of your framerate with that. Also, MOST of the impact comes from the triangle count in combination with them being transformed by the flexi calculation, obviously more triangles will be slower to transform since more calculations have to be done unless it is done in chunks (lets say the entire collision volume is one part only and one uniform calculation is applied, rather than inside this collision volume all vertices can be individually calculated and transformed differently). I've often seen lots of people claim that "triangles is not everything", that's sadly only half-true. Triangles is pretty much everything, more triangles always means more calculations, sometimes linearly, sometimes exponentially, depending on what other things are applying more calculations on top. A static mesh with lots of triangles is not as bad as an animated one because the animated one needs extra calculations to transform all of these triangles but again if it wouldn't use so many triangles to begin with, the calculation for them would be much faster and thus much more trivial. In the end, triangles are your best, most concrete pointer as to whether something is bad or not. Something with many polygons is (outside of it's size) ALWAYS bad, the only exception being that you are using more triangles because the mesh you are creating is covering more things (such as creating an entire level, you can't create more and more parts of the level while staying the same in triangle count unless you take away detail from everywhere else). So whenever you see an avatar with 1 million triangles, you can safely say that it's a completely unoptimized avatar, no exceptions ever. There is no reason a single avatar should ever have that much triangles, not even half of it, not even a quarter. 20K triangles is enough for an entire body with clothes and everything, that is however for games where clothes and body are one whole object, rather than being separated pieces like in SL but taking modularity into account you could estimate roughly 50K triangles for body + clothes. That is 20K for your base body, another 20K for all clothes covering your entire body (facial features included, basically duplicating a skin-tight layer, like a catsuit) and you'd still have 10K triangles free for something else, like items you wear, accessories and that stuff.

Pretty sure i've lowered flexi so hard that it's almost akin to a normal prim. (see what i did there?) Flexi's are by no means bad, sure they take some calculation cycles but not even close as much as LL wants to tell us they do. You can have hundreds, thousands of flexis all at the same time doing their flexi thing their flexi status will pretty much almost have no impact beyond the increased polycount (which is needed to allow them to bend smoother or at all)

*laughs in multi-quadrillion high complexity values* Puny human, think you can run from my complexity numbers? *shoots lazers* 5 million complexity for you. *shoots more lazers* 10 million for you *laser-light shows all over the room into a discoball reflecting off at everyone in the room* 50 million complexity FOR ALL OF YOU. *makes pew-pew noises* No seriously. "a touch", "not as lenient" haha! That's a very "lenient" way of putting it. My complexity calculation will absolutely hate you when you wear anything resembling even remotely an onion-skinned mesh body... not that it could do much about you... except reporting it to scripts and getting you kicked off of places that have ARC checkers there (yes those exist, i had a good laugh when someone reported getting kicked with a million complexity). But seriously with my Viewer's complexity calculation, 1 million complexity is really easy to get, just wear maitreya or belleza and put on some clothes and the usual stuff like bento hands, head, hair and so on. You'll quickly end up with 1-2 million polygons and since all of is rigged you'll quickly end up with the same (if not more) complexity. I really wouldn't call this a light approach at all. It's harsh and it's extremely punishing just how LL should have made it from the very beginning.

Raw shot, no edits, no cropping, straight out of SL.

I chose WinRar because at the time i didn't know 7zip can create installers as well. I might just switch over. In the end it doesn't make a difference i guess.

I'm necro-ing this post for the sake of clearing this up a bit, also because i just found the topic... i should probably look through the official forums a bit more. All Viewers can run on any machine, regardless of where they were installed or if they were installed at all. Everything the Viewer needs is created on startup. Registry entries beyond the normal Windows entries that tells windows where the executable is are not necessary unless you want additional functionality like clicking a SLURL and hoping for the client to teleport you there (or start if it isn't). Judging by how OP defined "mobile" however it might just be that no Viewer works, it depends. All Viewers as explained create everything necessary, if your non-admin account has no rights writing it's essential log, settings, presets and cache data in the correct AppData folders on your Windows drive it will fail to start. No amount of changing the paths for cache/settings will change that, there is always stuff hard coded in the Viewer that still goes to the AppData folder. For a good reason. The AppData folder is usually a folder that any user can access since it exists for every Windows user you create, it's basically the safest place to put sensible data such as settings because it is assumed that you'll always have write permissions there. If not, something is either wrong or you're using a very limited account such as those in schools for instance. RARs are in no way evil. Not using RARs or touching them for whatever reason is simply hyperbole. It's like saying you don't touch a knife because its a weapon murderers use to kill people. RARs are nothing more than a simple package that is kind of Windows's own packaging format. Winzip and WinRar are both considered a baseline feature of Windows by now even if WinRar doesn't always come with Windows. The reason i chose a RAR package for my Viewer is pretty simple. I'm too stupid to get the normal Viewer Installer Package to correctly build so my only option was creating packages manually, unless you like downloading thousands of files separately. I doubt you do. Another good reason for using RAR as installer is as mentioned by others already it offers pretty much the same features a stock installer does, sure no fancy images and fancy auto detect stuff but its sufficient to install a Viewer. On top of that it's also extremely transparent for the user, anyone, and i mean ANYONE can simply open it with your packager of your choice (WinZip,WinRar, 7zip) and look into it before unpacking it, you can even unpack it manually, circumventing any additional followup actions in place if you so want safety. The reason Oz Linden put a stamp of shame on my Viewer in the TPV List is because i refuse to use the useless stock complexity calculation that does basically everything except derendering those that waste a lot of your resources. I altered the complexity calculation to be much harsher and much more unforgiving when it comes to making "mistakes" in optimizations. Since i'm not using the original calculation anymore you could say that my Viewer is "misleading" when it comes to complexity as my 40k complexity is not the same as everyone else's 40k complexity. So far the only issue this caused was scripts kicking users from a SIM because these scripts read out your Viewer reported complexity and use it against you, so even if the much harsher complexity does not directly affect you, scripts who kick people based on complexity will still "see" you having a huge complexity value and kick you. I'm not sure whether i should find this stupid or just hilarious. I'd say my calculation does a much better job at derendering lagmonsters until LL can prove me wrong (which they can't and that's why they are redoing complexity, i only had to annoy them about it for a full year). The Viewer is by no means outdated or rarely updated. It only ever lags a few days behind the latest SL Viewer code and is semi-regularly updated (can't call it regularly because it depends, sometimes there are weekly updates, sometimes every two weeks, sometimes a 3 week release and sometimes multiple releases per week). Yes. Uh... yes... uh... yes. Yes! and... uh.. yea.... i mean NO. I'm the worst! Sometimes i'm standing on a SIM for a few minutes and wasting a few kb script memory on the SIM! Sometimes i rez a cube and make it physical for fun! OH I'M SO BAD! You clearly haven't read about me on 4chan. Seems like they think i'll hack your account if you talk ***** about me. Haha. Poor souls don't even know i don't know how to code something like that.

I'm afraid you can't do anything. The rear view is the default camera preset, ESC resets your camera back to the default which is: Rear View. On top of that, the camera presets are separate functions you cannot access via the main menu so there is no way you could map it to anything. It would require code changes.

I think i should come to work here aswell. When i started merging SSB, everything was still in the middle if "development", therefor alot of things were still subject to change and i probably just hit a very bad moment to merge SSB as it broke my RLVa in alot of places. "Broke" in terms of it prevented my Viewer from compiling without changes. Changes i dont know, changes people like Henri probably do easily, left-handed while drinking coffee and writing with an annoying girlfriend, all at the same time without even starting to sweat. You have to keep in mind that Henri is a "professional coder" since many years, thats something i'm further away than our galaxy from the next. Its something that might be very easy for him but it wasnt for me, therefor my complains about breaking RLVa and i didn't want to release a Viewer without RLVa nor don't i like botching in other people's (Kitty Barnett's) stuff. Also, as far as i understood Henri's comment, he was trying to say that it is really not that hard to fix and he would have expected others to fix it easily aswell (especially Firestorm which is a whole huge Team of developers who didnt seem to be able to fix it without Kitty's help). I respect Henri's work and his opinion about certain things, i like how he "deals" with LL, kicking their butts from time to time, thats something LL has earned i guess.

Last week i implemented CHUI for testing purposes and to see if i can do something about it, apart from it breaking half of my Viewer (People floater, IM , Local Chat, Chat/IM Toasts and even Name Tags) its absolutely unusable, it takes away chiclets which leaves me without any information who IMed me, to see that i always have to open that conversation window which automatically opens my local chat aswell (ugh)...just to see that it was only a group im not interested anyway...its local chat is a docked IM floater which makes it nearly impossible to mod it (it shares everything with all other IM windows, so if i change it i also change the IM Windows), it takes up huge amounts of screen space and seperating floaters or local chat doesnt even feel like i seperated them, it feels more like im creating a pointless new window that occludes my screen for no reason. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SmuxcRPberg/UVNQZqdNIOI/AAAAAAAAIDA/lc8WCwTnlss/s1920/Snapshot_1198.png heres how it looked for me the whole week... and this is how its looks again after throwing CHUI overboard (finally) https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-qOvJh6atAFc/UVOd66Q5ysI/AAAAAAAAID4/nHTrBwtQDt0/s1920/Snapshot_1202.png so much less space wasted, i never need to open any huge window to see who IMed me, all IMs autohide and most important, chat is ALWAYS seperate and small, apart from the fact that it is never visible because it automatically hides whenever it loses focus or send a message in my opinion, CHUI is a devastating change that is sadly a mostly MUST HAVE because it includes alot of UI refactoring which will cause all V3 TPVs alot of issues and unnecessary work, its space wasting, unusable, unintuitive, a huge backstep before even V1 and gets rid of literally everything that made the V2 chat good, alltogether this makes it the biggest UI **bleep**up in history of Linden Labs. Thanks Linden Labs, i hope people will grow some real balls and kick in your door and to tell you that you **bleep**ed up one of the most important parts of Second Life. personally i will be giving up on CHUI,everyone in my group agrees with me since i've shown tabbed IM users how seperate IM really works and proven that all arguments about seperate IM beeing screen space occluding are absolutely wrong.

I never offered that solution because i never encountered this Windows "Administration" issue (i log in to Windows as Administrator at all times , i do not have any other login). However , thanks for finding and solving this issue , i will write a solution with link on my blog later. Also , PLEASE DO NOT use any delivered presets that might be in a Release (they slipped in accidentally....i forgot to delete them when i was testing) they will set your video card informations to a GTX 460 resulting in a "reset" of your settings every login because the viewer detects a different card (at which the Viewer automatically reverts graphical settings in order to prevent complete failures due to video card downgrades etc). Loading my preset , then building your settings on TOP of that and then saving it will also cause this issue endlessly because you load the GTX 460 and later save it into your preset , every time you load YOUR preset now it will start reverting... really evil "issue" but nothing i can do about it except not delivering any Presets anymore (or deleting the video card information out of my presets). EDIT: Updated my blogpost , please confirm if those are correct http://niranv-sl.blogspot.de/

You are missing the Post Process Glow checkbox , without it Deferred and upwards wont work. better you disable everything and try checking again one by one , Transparent Water , Vertex Shader , Atmospheric Shader , Glow , Deferred and then set Shadows If you arnt able to get Glow to show up try a relog and IM me afterwards if it still doesnt work , i will tell you how to fix that.

The way how mesh is gathered and rendered has been changed drastically as far as i know , Viewer 2 from a certain state of time and downwards will have problems downloading and showing those meshes , in this case you WILL have to update , theres no way around this problem. Meaning all "old fashioned" Viewers how you call them wont (most likely) not be able to show them Crashing on upload can be caused by Microsoft Sky Drive , check if you got that one installed and uninstall it

Screentearing on a running image is coming from the upper and lower image part not updating syncronously this can happen when your Framerate goes over the refresh rate of your monitor , which often is 60hz , in this case having more than 60 Frames per second can result in having screentearing. To prevent that from happening you´ll have to enable Vertical Sync which is not on by default in Viewer 1. in Viewer 3 this shouldnt happen as Vertical Sync is forced on in these and cannot be disabled anymore. But beware the option is called Disable Vertical Sync, meaning it must be UNCHECKED to enable it.

You can also just set the hover tip show time from 0 to 1 to stop it from showing endlessly (0 = unlimited)

As a Builder , Radar .... Always the same , everytime I ask someone why they use Phoenix , I get this answer, because they are builders.... Wow they stick 1 Cube on another and call it Building! Its making me rage against those people , why can't people Simply accept V2 , Viewer 2 is good it just needs a bit practice like said before , and it has a Radar too BTW , which can easily be tweaked to work up to unlimited meters (if you know the debug stetting or got a Viewer like Kirstens with my Mod for it which allows to set the range up to 4800m) , BTW im a Builder since 3,5 Years now , im Building , Scripting , doing Machinima , Chat with People and all that stuff , and I DON'T need a stupid Radar because im not Paranoid I don't need to spy after people 24/7 all my life long , back to building ... Well I never had those Ultra freaky super duper features of Phoenix (I hate it because of its past) and I often build faster and better than many People out there with their super features which are just ideas of a handful people who didn't want to use their hand and move it around to actually create stuff im using Viewer 2 and im pretty happy with it , I always have the newest stuff , features , and it gives me much more playground for my UI Mods , yes im a UI modder aswell , and I did a Skin for it too, im just not using the official Viewer 2 because it lacks too much behind Kirstens and simply misses too much compatibility to my Mods you can take a look at some pictures of what i did for Viewer 2 My Blog