Czari Zenovka

Porky Gorky wrote: Czari Zenovka wrote: I realize I'm sounding like a broken record but, especially after reading the interview with Rod, I honestly think LL is just minimally keeping SL alive until the other games get off the ground. I truly hope I'm wrong about this...but it does explain a lot. This just sounds like the same old doom and gloom prophesying that has been a part of these forums for as long they have existed. Not a year has gone by in SL where people have not come onto these forums listing all of the reasons why the grid is about to fail and predicting SL's imminent demise. I remember when Kingdon was fired along with a third of LL's workforce. These forums were rife the self appointed experts predicting SL and LL's downfall, yet here we still are, repeating the same old conversations over and over again. I think it's best to just wait and see. I've never been part of the doom and gloom group, but when I read an interview with the CEO of LL who (1) laughed and seemed surprised SL was still around when approached with the offer of becoming CEO and (2) pretty much states that when he took a look at SL and saw "it was a company that was ready made to do a whole bunch of other products, which I wanted to do,” it's not in the realm of tinfoil hats that SL may be ditched at worst, nor the reason SL issues are being put on the backburner at best. I've been around these forums awhile too Porky.

Charolotte Caxton wrote: I mean big city USA. We have been eating modified, genetically engineered food for almost all my life. Oh I don't doubt we in the US have been eating modified, genetically engineered food for quite awhile, but you must be significantly younger than I since it has most definitely not been most of my life. If the city where you live is labeling GMO food (talking about regular grocery stores and not health food stores) that is excellent - and news to me.

Charolotte Caxton wrote: Really? The way it is here, is that food is labeled if it hasn't been genetically modified, and it sells at a premium, to the rich. If by "here" do you mean another country? I have heard that labeling is done in other countries and that is all we are asking for here. (in the US)

Toysoldier Thor wrote: What I dont understand is why LL does not outsource the Marketplace to a team with the skills and passion and drive / innovation to properly run the Marketplace? Its clear his team does not have any skills in any aspect of running the Marketplace - they are simply trying to fight the growing number of fires and keep the lights on with Marketplace. I realize I'm sounding like a broken record but, especially after reading the interview with Rod, I honestly think LL is just minimally keeping SL alive until the other games get off the ground. I truly hope I'm wrong about this...but it does explain a lot.

I listen to several late night talk shows and this issue has come up a lot recently with CA leading the way to mandate that the genetically-modified food be labeled so at least consumers can make an informed choice. I pray it passes so that other states will take the cue.

Darrius Gothly wrote: Porky Gorky wrote: Innula Zenovka wrote: How much do you think we need to raise? Over at SLU, a very respected member of the community who works on such systems in RL put the cost, as a ball-park figure, in the range of a quarter to half a million dollars. Don't go listening to those noobs over at SLU, they talk nonsense. We can just get Darrius to do it all, I've heard he would do anything for 6 pack of bud and a cheeky cuddle :matte-motes-big-grin: SO NOT TRUE!!! Six-pack of Pepsi .. and NOW we're talking. LOL Pepsi for the win!!!!

Perrie Juran wrote: Czari Zenovka wrote: Perrie Juran wrote: Actually the default colors of the Lithium software are on the edge of being a problem. I'm probably behind the curve on this, but what *is* Lithium software please? The name of this Forum Software (or maybe it's the company) is "Lithium." Hence why sometimes I say it appears the Forum is on drugs. http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Forums-Feedback/Is-The-Lithium-Spell-Checker-On-Drugs-Share-The-Gaffes/m-p/776193#M788 Ah ok, thank you. So would the issue for those who have color-blind issues be all the highlighting that shows up in green? (I'm assuming I'm using the default colors since I have no idea where to change them...lol.)

Perrie Juran wrote: Actually the default colors of the Lithium software are on the edge of being a problem. I'm probably behind the curve on this, but what *is* Lithium software please?

Great points, Sassy!

Couldbe Yue wrote: I don't think either M or Rod actually get us saddos who actually have moved in, settled down and created lives in here (even if it's only a business life) and I don't think that either of them (certainly M didn't) take us seriously as they either ignore us or give us the impression that we get in the way of their grandiose plans. And this is my fear where SL is concerned, and likely that of others of us who see SL more as an online "home" than "game" - Rod shut down Sims Online. I have no idea if he had the sole authority to do that or if he was acting on the wishes of the stockholders, but with him at the helm and reading about his goals in the referenced article, I have to wonder if Rod is securing his position within the gaming arena with his new projects and will close SL when/if they become successful. Couldbe Yue wrote: The comment about laughing in that article I take as a deliberate insult. Exactly!! Couldbe Yue wrote: ... changing the subject completely, has anyone heard from Dart? he hasn't been on here for 3 weeks. ...or Josh. Anyone see Josh lately??

Innula Zenovka wrote: But they're not ignoring SL; there's plenty going on, both in stuff behind the scenes, like trying to fix region-crossings, and in the new work they're doing on materials and so forth. Personally, I thought pathfinding was a bit of a waste of time (though I said that about mesh, too), but they've done that, and keyframed motion is getting established. I don't really see any evidence that SL is being starved of resources to fund the other projects. I dunno. While I've certainly got reservations about some stuff he's doing, I equally certainly think Rodvik gets what SL's about far more than did his predecessors; M didn't get it at all, and even the Sainted Phillip Rosedale a lot of the time seemed more interested in His World, His Imagination than in what residents might want to do (as an Adult Content creator, I will never forget that shipping us off to Zindra was his idea, almost the last announcement he made before leaving the first time, and it was M who implemented the idea and Rodivk who's just about fixed the damage his two predecessors did). Certainly, on the (admittedly short) track record, I think that looking for someone who'd probably never heard of "the Tau of Linden" to run the show for a while was probably one of the smartest things the board ever did. Rod/CTL/"they" are most definitely ignoring the Marketplace by all appearances and that is what this thread is about. It *is* refreshing to hear someone else think that pathfinding and mesh was not really needed (although it sounds like you may have changed your mind there) - so we agree on that. Once I read the article to which I referred, I became even more convinced they were put into SL for other purposes than to simply "enhance" SL. Mesh especially has not contributed to the "shared experience" that LL likes to use when decrying TPVs. ETA: I recently read the dress policy of a well-known SL club and it now states that any mesh which will render an avatar partially nude on non-mesh viewers is not permitted to be worn in the club. Interesting. I was never a fan of M. Linden either. IMO the CEOs are getting worse with each succession. What I'd love to know, and could probably dig around the net and find it somewhere, is if Philip is the major shareholder of LL.

Innula Zenovka wrote: Trinity Yazimoto wrote: You came to sl to take its strenght points, and prob its money, (OUR money)... just to satisfy your willing to build games that you couldnt do in EA ? ..... It's the shareholders' money, not ours. I have to say, I think that it's wise for LL to be developing things like Patterns. Presumably they've seen that a considerable number of people are playing Minecraft in preference to SL. What do you do about that? One solution would to try to make SL (or parts of it) more like Minecraft -- which would be neither a wise nor popular move, I suggest -- and another is to produce, independently, a rival to Minecraft, which is what they've done and, it seems, with quite some success. Maybe some people who play Minecraft will be attracted by Patterns to try SL.. Maybe they won't. Either way, it's increasing income for LL, and I don't really think it's at SL's expense -- having several successful products is far better, for all sorts of reasons, than only having one product, not matter how successful it is. It might be wise for LL to diversfy, but not at the expense of ignoring SL. As I mentioned above, if I, as the CEO/major shareholder of LL offered the CEO position to someone and they LAUGHED and asked, "is that still around?" I would have ditched that person and looked for someone else at least more informed about SL since Rod was supposed to be soooooo informed about the "gaming industry." Also...Rod's comment of "Also, it was a company that was ready made to do a whole bunch of other products, which I wanted to do.” (Notice the "I" in there?) doesn't sound like someone who is worried about shareholders as much as a kid who has a platform to try out all his new shinies. Personally, I've been ready for a new CEO who understands what SL is for a long time. Rod - as far as I'm concerned, in the immortal words of Donald Trump - YOU'RE FIRED!!!

Darrius Gothly wrote: This is exactly the outcome Rodvik has ensured with his promotion and dedication of the company to their new titles. (BTW: My comment on that article has mysteriously been moved to almost the last one on the last page .. odd that, eh? LOL) Very odd indeed. Your response was a breath of fresh air after I'd waded through all the "F*** SL" (and variations thereof). Scary bunch - I wouldn't want to be in a game with any of them!!!

Darrius Gothly wrote: I must ask again, is there really a reason why LL finds this method of doing business better than a more traditional and acceptable manner that is and has been used by so many others for 100's of years? What impetus causes them to continually fail to perform, fail to react .. and generally deliver the most deplorable level of customer service extant anywhere else? Because, based on the above, it appears Rod is more interested in creating more "games." My fear is that SL will go the way of the Sims eventually.

WADE1 Jya wrote: Trinity Yazimoto wrote: Dear Rodvik and LL team -- your last answer in this thread has been long time ago.... -- my marketplace displays 4 wrong pics since march 2012..... .....it took me 4 hours to be able to log in SL, and 8 hours to be able to log in the website, and in the market place... of course in the meantime, i didnt even tried to rezz anything, because im bored to loose items after your unsheduled rollbacks.... When its a matter of taking my monthly money, there is never glitches... I want to have updates when it s needed. You owe to us updates..... Since 2 monthes now, there are periodical major issues,..... ....You know Rodvik, im really sad to see how you dont care about us... One word describes it all. Abandonware. SL is arguably abandonware, or at least most of the way there. All LL resources, time & effort (including any profit SL continues to generate for LL) is being rolled into other LL projects, not SL. LL doesn't believe in SL anymore. The longer they don't believe in it, the faster it all slides into the gutter, which only proves to them more so not to believe in the product anymore, and they work on the ir new non-SL projects all the more feverishly. LL is a generic -thinking corporation now, they lost (or fired) all the magic they once had. Feels sad for me having successful business here since 2007 (& still continues to be so to this day !), yet knowing my business is built on a small shrinking island, (LL is th at island) an island of quicksand that is eroding fast & soon to be vanishing underwater. =( )= Exactly. Some of us have seen this article, others haven't. I've been holding back on posting it, but this seems like a good time. This explains a lot of things; even the responses of most of the posters are an insight into the target group it appears Rod is trying to attract, either in SL or, more likely, his other endeavors. ETA: This is the paragraph that really gets me: “When I was thinking about leaving EA,” said Humble during a recent meeting. “I was going to do my own company, and it was going to be around creative spaces--games that emphasize creativity tools more. When the opportunity came up and Linden Lab got in touch...first of all, Second Life? Is that still around? [laughs] I looked, and it was really, really healthy. Also, it was a company that was ready made to do a whole bunch of other products, which I wanted to do.” (Bolding mine) For someone approached to be the CEO of a company near and dear to many of us to basically "laugh" at SL is a slap in the face. The last sentence, to me, explains how Rod spends his time within LL and why we're not hearing more from them on SECOND LIFE issues.

Perrie Juran wrote: It will always be a matter of how someone wants to live their SL. And this is the crux of anyone's time in SL and kind of the point I was trying to make. You stated it precisely.

iCade wrote: It's not so much the fact that she stated her opinion, it's the fact that she had the audactity to call 50 cents for an hour of actual work a better than average wage as if she's doing that someone a favour when it's simply taking advantage of someone. But I guess this is one of those times were people get upset about my bluntness because I was not raised to do political correctness nor to sugar coat and coo at people. Culural differences do that, so I am fully aware I'll be painted the bad guy here again and the issue at hand - taking advantage of people - is the point here. I'm not painting you as the bad guy Cade and that wasn't my intention in my post. You and I have had some good exchanges on the forums. We agree on many things and I daresay we disagree on others. Because of the positive exchanges you and I have had I was a bit surprised at your post to Melita but it could very likely be, as you said, a combination of slight cultural differences that come out more strongly in text or possibly even a misunderstanding of what was written. (Going to go back and re-read the posts.) Even amongst people of the same identical culture, text chat can come across in a way colder or stronger than meant sometimes. I'm a redhead and, in my younger years, had a very short fuse on my temper and was quite opinionated. In some circles I was seen as "controversial" just because I wasn't afraid to step in with my opinion at any given moment. As I've gotten to be *ahem* "a woman of a certain age" I have mellowed a bit. That point is debatable amongst some of my friends...lol. My point being I definitely understand expressing strong opinions and personally don't agree with the "PC" culture in general. As a sidenote: Melita does a great job in defending her own statements, she doesn't need my help...lol. I just know her to be one of the most giving people I have met in SL.

Come on, Cade...I'm not sure what is influencing your ire in this discussion, but Melita expressed an opinion based on her experience. Heart expressed an opinion based on her's, Perrie on his, I on mine, etc. I disagree on some of the opinions (on some rather strongly) and agree or partially agree on others. And we're talking about SL. Of course $0.50/hour USD is ridiculous...in real life. In the US we have minimum wage laws which vary according to state due to cost-of-living. In my state the 2012 mininim wage is $7.67/hr, in the state of Washington it is $9.04/hr for example. For my state, $7.67/hr. is roughly $15,953/yr BEFORE taxes - barely a liveable wage for one person and some families in this economy are trying to exist on this. But back to SL - a small percentage of people make a RL full-time living from their SL businesses, but it is generally as a land baron or VERY successful merchant. Another percentage of people make a decent part-time income from their SL endeavors. The majority of people either break even, their SL income "supports" them in SL ie. they do not put any RL funds into SL, or are doing whatever for the sheer fun of it. We can continue to give examples all day long, but I don't see that Melita's opinion should be trounced upon so vehemently. I disagree with a lot of opinions I see on the forums - unless it hits one of my hot buttons I generally don't respond. I'm guessing Melita inadvertently pressed one of your buttons.

Perrie Juran wrote: After that position I was asked to work a weekly Formal event. The idea was to have someone available to dance with any unescorted ladies who showed up. They did not know that I was being paid to dance with them. That job only paid 300L for 2 hours and I had told the Club Owner I would only do it as long as it remained fun for me. That job didn't last long. I was supposed to remain the perfect gentleman. That is, I was not supposed to 'hook up' with any of the Ladies I danced with. So I wound up resigning that position. It just wasn't worth it for 300L for two hours work. At that time, a nice Tuxedo cost 750 to 1000L. We all have our past employment stories it seems. In 2007 my first SL job was as a Cigar Girl for an amazing 1940's vintage dance club. The entire sim was an amazingly realistic build of a Polynesian island during WWII. The club had a large dedicated group of regulars who became a "family" of sorts as well as many new patrons/night. All the employees and the majority of regulars dressed for the era. Great fun. This club hired Managers, Cigar Girls, and Bartenders. The Managers were not paid a salary but were given free "air space" on the sim to place a home with no prim limit other than to stay "reasonable." One of the duties of the managers (one male and one female were on duty each night) was to dance with any unescorted patrons. This generally meant the male managers asking unescorted ladies to dance since most men either brought a date or were barflies who didn't care to dance. The male managers had quite a following of admirers. I have never seen this done at any other club and thought it was a stroke of genious since most clubs have many women standing around; thus it is interesting to see that the club you worked for hired you for this purpose, although only for formal nights and, if I read what you wrote accurately, this was your sole job during for those nights. Dancing with unescorted patrons was just one of the duties of the managers at the club I worked for; they also welcomed new arrivals, kept the conversation in general chat lively, kept an eye out for griefers or security issues, etc. As a Cigar Girl, I worked my derierre off. I earned 300L/night (3 hour shift) plus tips; however, our club never spammed to tip everyone under the sun, in fact, in the 5 months or so I worked there I think the club owner mentioned something to the effect of "If our Cigar Girls and Bartenders have served you well, please remember them" maybe a handful of times. Managers were never tipped. My job consisted of walking around the club a la the cigarette girls in the 1940's cantinas and 1950's upscale clubs, talking to patrons, asking if they would like a cigar or drink; if they ordered a drink, I kept an inventory of "drinks" to serve to them. Some of the regulars thought it was amusing to order some little-known, exotic drink. I would research these and be sure and have it on hand the next time I was asked. I had to keep a sharp eye on a very active general chat to make sure I didn't miss anyone who asked for something in general as well as fielding requests in IM. I was to also help keep conversation going in general chat. You didn't feel it was "worth it" to make 300L for 2 hours; I was pleased with 300L for 3 hours. I loved the job, I loved the environement, many of the employees and patrons became SL friends, not to mention I met my partner of three years there. My tips were minimal, probably because of the lack of spamming and honestly, back then, I didn't know tipping was "the norm" for clubs or even to tip instructors when I took classes and, having worked as a a SL instructor, I made FAR more doing that, but then, the skill set was higher - at least for the school for which I worked. After a few months at the club I was asked to take over the scheduling of employees. That turned into a nightmare when people began wanting to switch nights so they could be with their bf/gf, etc. Sometimes I filled in when someone couldn't work. I was paid an extra 150L/week for doing all this. My points are: 1. Different people are going to view payment in SL differently. 2. The duties involved in working in a club are vastly different and much more fast-paced than the type of duties the OP stated would be expected of her. 3. I can ASSURE everyone that Melita is the LAST person to be a proponent of "slave labor" considering the contribution she has made to SL, provided with her own funds; a contribution some people ruined for many others when they blatantly ignored simple rules (such as prostitutes using Melita's land for their own *ahem* "business) or had an entitlement attitude. The respondents who really can best answer the OPs question is someone like Amethyst who has knowledge of SL land rentals. The rest of us are speculating using our own "frames of reference."

seanabrady wrote: Thanks to all the responses thus far. A new, follow up question though. If you were looking for a place to live in Second Life and saw that the estate did not ban child avatars, in fact stated specifically in the covenant that they (along with lots of other avatar types that do get banned) were welcome, would it make you less likely to buy/rent land in that region? It would make no difference to me whatsoever. The child avatars with whom I have had contact (and I admit these are child avatars that are established SL residents dating back many, many years) are great fun. ETA: Marianne, where are you? Marianne McCann lends a unique perspective to any discussion of child avatars in SL.

seanabrady wrote: It is paces like Bay City in fact that made me think to post this. I am pretty much 100% in agreement with what you are saying here. Obviously there are places where its not appropriate, but in general banning make little sense and only serves to cut off a part of the population from your region needlessly. A very well known child avatar and child avatar advocate owns a store in Bay City, so it would seem that certain land/business owners within Bay City bar child avatars, but it's certainly not the policy of the Bay City sims as a whole. As a sidenote, Bay City and Nautilus are Linden-built (at least the structure, roads, some buildings, etc.) sims similar to sims like Shermerville and other "old continent" sims. They were meant to evoke a particular theme (Bay City is circa 1950's and Nautilus is described as a "water archipelego") and have a consistent design theme, again hearkening back to the older Linden-designed neighborhoods. I haven't been in any of these areas lately but the last I looked prices for land in any of these areas were extremely high. Many of the parcels, however, are double prim, so that makes them more desireable, as well as living in a themed area.

Thanks, Charlotte I followed the discussions re: this issue back in the day but didn't have the specifics on hand.