Madeliefste Oh

Marit Huet wrote: DX echange is a real world registered office, and made a lot of effort to be one of the best exchange services in secondlife, used by german, spanish, english and dutch residents for a few years I don't know how it was for buyers, but as a seller of L$, dealing with DX Exchange was not profitable at all. I used it once to exchange L$ to euros (back in 2007). But I ended up with less euros then when I sold my money on Lindex, and then exchanged them to euros through Paypal. When they started to spam me on regular basis I cancelled my account at DX.

The L$ - usd rade could be exactly the same. Since LL is not actually buying any L$, but it is a user to user trade, it is going to be a matter linking buyers and sellers who want to trade in euros to each other. They can use a European bank to cash the fees. These fees will cover the expenses to exchange euro's back to usd. But that doesn't have to be higher then it was on third party exchangers. Because that was where those made their profit from: ease of use, and fast service. Some years ago Philip set the aim to make SL: fast, easy and fun. There are two oppertunities now for LL to realise this goal: Lindex and be made more fast and Lindex can be made more easy.

Perrie Juran wrote: The value of the $L is still holding pretty steady against the U.S. Dollar. In fact it is stronger today than yesterday. The L$ price has been much more stable during the last years then the euro.

In the letter that those exchanges got they were told to stop their activities at the latest at monday morning San Fransisco time. So I wonder, will those two still opened be closed at monday as well... at the risk of losing their accounts.

For example for paying main land tier, or for paying for a premium account. LL doesn't accept any payment in L$.

Perrie Juran wrote: B. Apparently you have not read many contracts that you have signed and especially agreements on the Internet you have "accepted." This is pretty standard legalese. I never realised that I cannot get rid of an account anymore when there is not stated in the TOS that you have the right to cancel your account. Not all virtual worlds use this standard. For example, once you take an account on Avination, you are not allowed to cancel it. Because, according to Avination: Actually deleting an account would destroy creator information on any items created and in world. For reasons of accountability, we can not do this. Also, by the same token, we need to retain the email address, since it could turn out an item is stolen and we may have to provide the email to law enforcement to aid in investigating a complaint.

Linden Lab had to register as an MSB with FinCEN. More background info

What I would like to see on Lindex is that people can buy and sell in their own cuncurrency... I would be a lot more user friendly when people can buy and sell L$ also for euros, pounds, yens and so on.

Fruitbat Oh wrote: I can't reasonably expect my inworld landlord to let me float my rental payments the weeks it will take to get accredited to use the lindex , i have no alternative right now to returning the land , releasing or giving away my roos , and loosing 2 years of breeding progress . So yes , while i'm not planning to leave SL - too many friends here for that, my experience has been ruined . Under the current circumstances you can reasonably expect from your landlord to have a bit of patience with you, till you have set up a way to pay him. When he has the choice between loosing you as a long time renter, or wait a week or two for his money, what do you think he will prefer?

Fruitbat Oh wrote: broadband service comes in with the rent , as do all my utilities -- the landlord accepts cash too .Before you ask so does my local supermarket . I guess you are a role player in SL?

And did you also put money in your Paypal account, Wildcat? Might be the case that LL does not accept an empty PP account?

SL does accept it that way since 2007. It is accepted when linked to a credit card, and it is also accepted when linked to a bank account. Not both are needed. Just one method is enough.

Amazing, Fruitbat... I don't know that still exists in 2013. How do you pay your internet service provider, also in cash?

No, Wildcat, for paypal account you need an emailadres.

Fruitbat Oh wrote: i have no bank account at all Really? Then how do you get your money in RL?

Wildcat, the solution for you is a Paypal account. This is the Dutch page: Paypal NL Make sure to get verified (which means link Paypal to your Dutch Bank account), this can take a day or ten.

Kahlie Niven wrote: Remaining a net profit : 1,075 € per month .. for a full time job ... and believe me at this level, 100 € more or 100 € less makes a big difference, so if you can save them, then you do. You are right, at this level a decline of 10% of your income is a lot. I'm really sorry that it works out this way for you. But there is something I still don't get. How it is possible that you will have a loss of 100 € a month? Till this new Tos arrived the only sounds I heard from people cashing out at TPE's was: the speed of service is it worth to me to get a slightly lower price for my L$. Which exchange service gave a higher price for your L$ and was still able to make a profit?

Jannahnura wrote: i just wonder why they dont do IDEAL evry other big games or V.W., and more have Ideal with ideal you do not need to have paypal or whatever Because Ideal only deals in euros, you cannot pay any usd bill with Ideal.

Trinity Yazimoto wrote: Well, i dont pay no mind to my sl incomes.. i never cash them out, and i keep them to help for my tier and my shopping... i still buy for 50 € montly of l$ for completing my budget. So well, indeed, i could live my sl without even 1 l$, but it wouldnt be the same... im not interested by sl sex, rp, or whatever famous activities.. What i like is dresssing my avi, make pics and create clothes.... i need a lil money for this... not a lot but still... so if one day i cant buy any l$ i bet it will make a difference for me.. People are creative. When your second life is important to you, and you simply need the money for tier or buying goods, you will find a way to work something out.. When you have a good friend that you really trust, and don't mind to exchange rl identity, it's not hard to find a construction. For example when you are very close with your landlord, you can make a deal to pay the rent in usd or euro's from your bank account, you can pay him a bit more then the rent price, and he can pay you back the difference in L$. It's not ideal... but when you have no choice, friends are the best people to depend on.

Trinity Yazimoto wrote: maybe, as some other said, finally the pp who wont really be able wont be so numerous (it will be still a sadness for them to leave and for us to see them leave) Ofcourse, Trinity, for every individual who is forced to leave because of this change it is very sad. And for the ones who love them, it can be a personal drama as well. I really feel sorry for the people who don't have a single way left to get money in or out SL. But what is more important to most people? Money or friends? Why did the residents of SL not move massively to worlds like IW or Aviantion where the land is less then a quarter of the price you pay in SL? Because their friends did not move with them (and, in a wider range: their favorite fashion designers or favorite singers or their favorite gaming sim did not move with them). For me this points out that friends, social life and community is much more important then money for the majority of SL residents. People who can no longer buy or sell money in an easy way might be angry, and play with the thought to leave SL, but in the end in many cases the friendship will win. Friends will start to help each other when someone is really stuck with getting money in or out SL. I think that in the total of the economy there will not be much difference. Some people who did spend money will leave or just stop spending, but on the other side of the balance, the profit that those exchange services made, will mainly return back in the economy. Most people have a fixed amount they want to spend each month for their hobby. It is from those budgets that exchange services took their profit. Now the exchange services are gone, that profit will be in the hand of customers, who end up with more L$ to spend. It are small margins per indivual, but in a large amount in the whole.

What now? I just go on with what I was doing in SL. I don't think people will leave in large numbers. A small minority of the residents will leave SL or stop participating in the economy. Most people will start using the Lindex (most of them will discover that they get a better rate at Lindex then at the TPE), others will be able to get money in and out SL with get a little help from a friend, and there will arise a small black market where L$ are traded. The world will go on,. People get used to the new way of buying and selling L$, and within a half year everbody (except the former exchange owners) is forgotten about third party exchanges.

A TPE is just another resident doing business in SL. Some of the large ones might be a business in rl as well and hire personel to handle customer service and support in SL. From one day to the other their source of income has dried up, so I can imagen that it's not easy at all for them to handle with this situation. Questions like: 'how to fire my personel?', or 'how to get income te be able to pay my bills next month?' might be of greater importance now then 'how to return the money to individual residents that is pending in het system?'. I will depend on individual ethics of each exchange owner (and their need for money now their source of income had dried) if people are going to see their pending money back or not. If not, I'm afraid there is not much you can do. LL will handle it as a resident to resident dispute, and won't step into it. If you have the bad luck that your exchagne owner doesn't care a bit for paying back the funds, the only way that is left for you to see your money back is get after his rl name and file a lawsuit. In most cases this trouble won't be worth the amount of money that is lost.

Kahlie Niven wrote: Pretty simple, 2 example of advantages provided by third party like virwox : - It was allowing me to exchange my L$ to Euro over neteller and skrill, instantaneously, didn't have to wait weeks for this..and when your business on SL forces you to pay 500 € of bills monthly, believe me, you don't want to wait for your income for weeks. - Secondly, because of all the fees : LL's fee, Paypal's fee, currency exchange fee... overall, all of these fees cost me about 100 € per month. If I can avoid them then I will (with direct payments overt the web for example). You don't want to wait maybe, but waiting is not something that is going to kill your business, it's just a matter of planning more in front. When you pay about 100 € per month in fee, and let's say the fees are 10% (which is way too high, it shall be more around 7% but still let's take that 10% as an amount to calculate with), Then your income must be around 1000 euro a month. Your costs are 500 € + 100 € a month, so you still have a profit of € 400 euro a month (520 usd). That might be a bit lower then you were use to, but it is not killing your business.

Kahlie Niven wrote: As a personnal testimony, this decision, by killing the use of VirWox, also almost kills my business. Explain...

Trinity Yazimoto wrote: " the LindeX is the best place to buy and sell L$ for use in Second Life." if its the ONLY ONE place to buy and sell l$ i cant be best or worst, IT IS. period... for being the best in smth, it has to be in competition with other things... It is in competetion with buying L$ in the viewer inworld.