Honey Puddles

Probably because the knowledge Base has this to say about Adult Regions in regards to violence.. Note that "Whether or not photorealistic" part.. These all sound like extremely disgusting, visceral terms.. but think for a minute.. a light saber duel meets this criteria. Being shot with bullets, lasers, getting cut in half by a light saber.. an argument can be made that even being 'shot down in a plane' might meet this qualification. "depicting death" "not photo-realistic"... "Ohhh he got me! X.X" A splash of cartoon blood and a combat meter that says 'you died'..

Firestorm (arguably the most used viewer in SL) doesn't.

Just gonna drop this here: Second Life Feedback: Append [G][M][A] Maturity Rating indicators to slurls rendered in IMs, Chat, Dialogs, Group Notices, etc.

You mean in the G-Rated half of Bay City?

When they post, it's usually in a blind panic.. "My account has been banned, LL keeps closing my support tickets, I have lost everything and everyone dear to me, please help". These don't read like *****posts.. they read like desperation. They find a subreddit and think "maybe someone from LL will see it there" or "maybe someone there knows what I can do to get my life, home, family, and/or business back". One thing they all have in common.. they claim their avatars weren't children. Most of them claim their avatars were femboys.. and will opine endlessly about 'being a realistic height'. Rarely do any of them say "I never do anything sexual" but they always say "My avatar isn't even a child"

Guess you'll be seeing this post again as time wears on, then.. (silly setting if you ask me). Doing my best to have a single document I can hand to a Linden at a meeting.. so, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Since the forum moderators decided to shift around the contents of this thread, I am no longer to go back and edit my original post. My intention was (and still is) to maintain and update a *single post* with all the issues I have been noting, rather than a long chain of buried comments. I am therefore reposting it below, with an addendum of additional issues that need clarifying. Hopefully I will remain able to edit this post should future issues be discovered. @Linden Lab @Tommy Linden @Maggie Linden @Keira Linden This post is not intended to 'join in' on the arguing back and forth. This is some direct and considered feedback that I hope you will consider when updating the FAQ in the coming days. There seems to be a lot of kibitzing going on over the specific words and phrases being used in the rules, and people are poring over it for any scrap of loopholes. Some issues that need to be specifically addressed (in direct words) in the FAQ are: Regarding Modesty Panels Layers? Change uses of the word "Layer" to "Panel" or "Patch".. This is causing confusion as to whether the use of system clothing 'layers' are an acceptable alternative to having a modesty patch on the skin. Baked, they said Baked! Similarly, change usage of the phrase "Baked onto" if you do not mean to imply that Bakes-On-Mesh Layers are an acceptable solution. Perhaps a better phrase is "Rendered or painted directly on the skin's textures", if that's what you mean to imply. How much modesty, is modest enough? Are grey crotch triangles and/or nipple-cover pastie style circles acceptable, or must this be an apparent clothing item? Do 'girl presenting avatars' with fully flat chests have to have bras? Is there an apparent age point where one is and isn't required? Is a C-string style cover acceptable, or do child avatars need actual panties painted on? Are thongish panties or high-cut briefs compliant, or does everyone need knee-length boxers? What specifically must be covered? It's an uncomfortable question to ask and answer particularly from the corporate world of worries of sexual harassment, sensitivity, etc, but there must be no ambiguity here, for child avs and asset creators. Where is the line here? Regarding "Must not match the skin tone" Surprisingly there's some room for quibble here as well. "by how much" is hard to quantify.. but also 'must the patch be hard edged?" comes into play here as well. A slightly different shade of brown or tan.. technically doesn't match. Does the patch need to be hard edged like a stamp, or can it be feathered along the edges to provide a more subtle transition for situations where an edge might peek out of a swimsuit? Tintable panels? A further question is raised if the modesty panels are accomplished through use of a transparent 'hole' in the skin textures, allowing the tint-able system layer under the skin textures to show. If creators offer this on a modifiable skin, it's potentially possible for users to tint their modesty panels to match the skin. Even if not sold that way, will the creator face sanctions when a user tints their modesty panels to match their skin? Regarding "Fully Nude" This phrase in actual SL usage is extremely vague. We realize you're not regular users of the service and it's often hard to remember every way SL is used. For the pedants, "I'm wearing socks" can be interpreted by some as compliant with the idea of 'not being fully nude'. Less pedantically, there are some clear questions about the phrase. Does a worn mesh diaper comply? Does mesh panties even if the skin has genitals on it? Do BOM layer undies or a C-string comply? If an avatar strips down to nothing but a body/skin (that *IS* compliant, complete with painted-on modesty panels).. is THAT considered being nude? Do modesty panels alone constitute 'not nude? Regarding child avatar users Some folks seem to be getting the idea that this rule only applies to content creators, and that child avatar users themselves have no direct compliance requirements. I personally think it's pretty clear, but I have 18+ years of experience in reading LL's announcements. Child avatars can't be forced to personally modify their skins, because child avatars largely don't make their own skins, they buy them. The creators need to update their assets, the child avatars need to use compliant assets by June 30. This needs some clarification. Regarding "use of Moderate or Adult keywords" Will creators be notified at time of publication which keywords they've used are considered Moderate or Adult? It seems unfair to threaten content creators with expulsion from SL over keywords they may not realize are not allowed to be utilized. It may be time to put an end to the 'hidden rules' mindset. Yes, this allows certain creators to potentially abuse the situation. Those abusers can be admonished. Do not march child-avatar asset creators, trying in good faith to comply, to their doom across a hidden minefield. Example.. the word "Latex" may be understood to be one of those words. But Latex is a name for a shiny material, which may be used (for example) in the description of included material options for a diaper cover. "Cute cartoon patterned diaper cover for your Toddleedoo, available in Plastic, Rubber, and Glossy Latex finishes" .. there should be some system in place for 'you've used the wrong keyword, it's been removed' or 'you need to change that'. Other Rules Documents and Wiki pages need updating! An argument occurred back and forth about 'whether this was really a change at all, as child avatars were never allowed on A-rated land". I knew this to be false, as I was keenly aware of the rule change events back in 2007 and 2009 that brought us the Child Avatar policies, and Adult Rated land. https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Adult_Content_FAQ#Are_child_avatars_allowed_on_Adult_regions.3F This document ***STILL STATES*** I am sure there are other, similar documents that may have fallen between the cracks. Some dedicated searches of the wiki, support FAQs, and other documents may be in order. It looks like the search tool for https://support.secondlife.com/ has crashed, but I will attempt another search for similar documents that may need updating, later. Blind Alleys and unintentional TP mistakes One of the arguments I've seen repeated is "You should know not to go to an [A] rated region, you're at fault!" but many.. MANY paths to teleports in SL do not make the land's rating abundantly clear, if at all. Slurls like this secondlife:///app/teleport/Moonspell/181/154/1170 do not render the region's maturity rating when they display in IM or local chat: Similarly, 'classic slurls' such as http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Moonspell/181/154/1170 also do not render a Maturity Rating symbol: And when visited from the web, even the maps.secondlife.com interface makes zero mention of the destination's Maturity Rating. While it's true that pressing the "Visit this Location" button will then open the "Place Profile", which can then display the Maturity Rating, it's common for the maturity rating to be well off the page if the window isn't opened at full size, which makes it easy to miss. Yes, it's further down.. but some locations have quite a lot of text that can push this very far down. I have also seen numerous instances when the Maturity rating did not display AT ALL (perhaps due to lag) That said, why IS that information way at the bottom? Shouldn't it be right next to the Region name? Shouldn't all these rendered hyperlinks and the maps page be putting those 🅰 [M] [G] things anyplace that a clickable link is presented? If you truly want a predictable experience.

That part's actually pretty well covered. This would seem to cover both the case of a 'speedo' that was showing a bulge/cameltoe, AND a tattoo layer that painted forbidden skin details over the modesty patches.

@Linden Lab @Tommy Linden @Maggie Linden @Keira Linden This post is not intended to 'join in' on the arguing back and forth. This is some direct and considered feedback that I hope you will consider when updating the FAQ in the coming days. There seems to be a lot of kibitzing going on over the specific words and phrases being used in the rules, and people are poring over it for any scrap of loopholes. Some issues that need to be specifically addressed (in direct words) in the FAQ are: Regarding Modesty Panels Layers? Change uses of the word "Layer" to "Panel" or "Patch".. This is causing confusion as to whether the use of system clothing 'layers' are an acceptable alternative to having a modesty patch on the skin. Baked, they said Baked! Similarly, change usage of the phrase "Baked onto" if you do not mean to imply that Bakes-On-Mesh Layers are an acceptable solution. Perhaps a better phrase is "Rendered or painted directly on the skin's textures", if that's what you mean to imply. How much modesty, is modest enough? Are grey crotch triangles and/or nipple-cover pastie style circles acceptable, or must this be an apparent clothing item? Do 'girl presenting avatars' with fully flat chests have to have bras? Is there an apparent age point where one is and isn't required? Is a C-string style cover acceptable, or do child avatars need actual panties painted on? Are thongish panties or high-cut briefs compliant, or does everyone need knee-length boxers? What specifically must be covered? It's an uncomfortable question to ask and answer particularly from the corporate world of worries of sexual harassment, sensitivity, etc, but there must be no ambiguity here, for child avs and asset creators. Where is the line here? Regarding "Must not match the skin tone" Surprisingly there's some room for quibble here as well. "by how much" is hard to quantify.. but also 'must the patch be hard edged?" comes into play here as well. A slightly different shade of brown or tan.. technically doesn't match. Does the patch need to be hard edged like a stamp, or can it be feathered along the edges to provide a more subtle transition for situations where an edge might peek out of a swimsuit? Tintable panels? A further question is raised if the modesty panels are accomplished through use of a transparent 'hole' in the skin textures, allowing the tint-able system layer under the skin textures to show. If creators offer this on a modifiable skin, it's potentially possible for users to tint their modesty panels to match the skin. Even if not sold that way, will the creator face sanctions when a user tints their modesty panels to match their skin? Regarding "Fully Nude" This phrase in actual SL usage is extremely vague. We realize you're not regular users of the service and it's often hard to remember every way SL is used. For the pedants, "I'm wearing socks" can be interpreted by some as compliant with the idea of 'not being fully nude'. Less pedantically, there are some clear questions about the phrase. Does a worn mesh diaper comply? Does mesh panties even if the skin has genitals on it? Do BOM layer undies or a C-string comply? If an avatar strips down to nothing but a body/skin (that *IS* compliant, complete with painted-on modesty panels).. is THAT considered being nude? Do modesty panels alone constitute 'not nude? Regarding child avatar users Some folks seem to be getting the idea that this rule only applies to content creators, and that child avatar users themselves have no direct compliance requirements. I personally think it's pretty clear, but I have 18+ years of experience in reading LL's announcements. Child avatars can't be forced to personally modify their skins, because child avatars largely don't make their own skins, they buy them. The creators need to update their assets, the child avatars need to use compliant assets by June 30. This needs some clarification. Regarding "use of Moderate or Adult keywords" Will creators be notified at time of publication which keywords they've used are considered Moderate or Adult? It seems unfair to threaten content creators with expulsion from SL over keywords they may not realize are not allowed to be utilized. It may be time to put an end to the 'hidden rules' mindset. Yes, this allows certain creators to potentially abuse the situation. Those abusers can be admonished. Do not march child-avatar asset creators, trying in good faith to comply, to their doom across a hidden minefield. Example.. the word "Latex" may be understood to be one of those words. But Latex is a name for a shiny material, which may be used (for example) in the description of included material options for a diaper cover. "Cute cartoon patterned diaper cover for your Toddleedoo, available in Plastic, Rubber, and Glossy Latex finishes" .. there should be some system in place for 'you've used the wrong keyword, it's been removed' or 'you need to change that'.

My sister is struggling with this exact issue right now. The 'most naked' she ever got was for a bath, and was still covered in soap suds and clusters of bubble attachments. She's looking at trying to mod her skin (which she does have the PSDs for) to make a modesty layer that will 'blend in' with the soap bubbles.. but she's panicking a bit over 'how modest does a modesty layer need to be?' Crotch, sure... she's a bit like Barbie there already but sure. Must nipples be covered on a child av? She uses the "Male" body chest setting, does that affect what needs to be covered? What about the butt crack? How.. MUCH of the butt crack? etc. She uses a Tweenster body, so there's no geometry defining any genitalia down there, but the ambiguity of whether 'what she comes up with' will be 'good enough' or 'safe enough'.. And it's kind of emotional meltdown city. Funny how the Lindens got called out for wrongdoing, the Lindens found no wrongdoing.. but let's police the bodies of child avatars.. for a treat.

Just to point out a couple things. 1. The rule states you have to change avatars BEFORE entering an Adult Region. 2. Apparently, 'right after a teleport' is the absolute worst time to try and get RLV to do anything... much less change your outfit. I'm told your outfit might change on your viewer's side, but due to various 'race conditions' present after a teleport, the region (and those in it) might never get the updates. Resulting in you walking around in your Child Av, without even knowing it.

How often do you go shopping, and find yourself in an Adult rated region? Do you even notice when you do? Remember that the giant hitpiece article went out of it's way to target the maker of the Tweenster body (a child avatar).. because it was located on an A-rated region. One of the better known motorcycle shops (with it's daily midnight mania giveaways) is located on A-rated land.. they even SELL child-sized bikes! A large number of Star Wars roleplay regions are located on A-Rated land. Driver's of SL frequently visits Zindra, and is often sponsored by stores located on A-rated land. And that's not even getting into clothing stores that just sit on A-rated land because "oh, I dunno, someone might get naked on a pose stand, better mark it A to be safe"

I can speak to this. https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Parents-Lil-helper/1304818 Parent's Little Helper, and other systems like it, allow a parent or other trusted adult to 'take the hand' of a child, or to pick them up and carry them. It does this by cleverly leveraging RLV. When the parent selects "Pick up", the Helper will rez an invisible object. The child is then 'force sat' on that object, which then follows the parent around as they walk, animating the child as if they're being held, riding on shoulders, etc. Similarly, the system can force-unsit when the parent 'puts them down'. It can also be used to have a child av 'sit' on a vehicle, or in a 'time out' chair, etc. Yes, this is potentially open to abuse, as an outside actor with nefarious intent could 'sit' a child on adult furniture. This is why such systems usually employ a whitelist system, only allowing trusted individuals to use it.

Added that to the feature request! I'd forgotten about animated mesh heads with non-bento bones, animating mouths for typing, not necessarily working for talking.

There are existing gesture triggers for /voicelevel1, /voicelevel2, and /voicelevel3, but there don't seem to be corresponding triggers for LSL to detect. There are gestures in the library under "Gestures > Speech Gestures", but a casual search on the wiki suggests they may not be working, and of course these triggers/gesture/animations predate fitted mesh and/or bento. A feedback feature request definitely seems to be warranted. https://feedback.secondlife.com/scripting-features/p/add-agent-speaking-to-llgetagentinfo-to-detect-whether-avatar-is-is-not-speaking

That's the one element I'm not sure on. As far as I recall, there are 'voice gestures' that exist, which means there are some 'is speaking' hooks to detect at least via gesture. I'm fishing around on the LSL portal right now to see if I can find anything better, if not, I'm making a feedback feature request.

They're utilizing SL voice, so this could be done via some scripting. Each person can wear an attachment that detects if certain animations are playing (voice-triggered lip movements for example). The script has a warm-up and cool-down period programmed in.. so for example.. checking 3 times every second, we check if the user is 'talking' now. If yes, we add 1 to a number. If no, we subtract 1. if the number is ever over 10, we reassign it's value as 10. This means it will take approximately 1.5 seconds of active talking for the number to reach 5, and it will take 1.5 seconds for it to drop to 5. Now it's just a matter of sending 'llSay(111, "talking"); and llSay(111, "stopped"); Person 2 may use 222, person 3, 333, and so on. Second script on the recording person, has pre-positioned camera positions and angles for each person (set up before recording). The camera script listens for 'talking' messages, and keeps track then of who is talking, and whether it should cut to a specific person's camera, or to a wide shot. SL even has camera smoothing functions that could potentially make these transitions fairly smooth. I'm not saying it doesn't take some competent scripting to make something like this work, but it's not exactly a networked vendor system or something along those lines.

Even just taking that single camera view, recorded in a certain 'high rez' quality, and 'cutting' to zoomed in shots, back to the wide, back to the zoomed shot, would improve things. Just like something that isn't the SL equivalent of locking down a single camera on a tripod for half an hour straight.

its just disappointing that this 27 minute video would be improved by keeping the audio, and replacing the video with a second life logo.

There's one great point in the video where he explains that Tilia has not been a successful business for Linden Lab, and it's pulled down everything financially, draining millions of dollars to keep running. The contracts Tilia has managed to secure outside of SL haven't been profitable, or led Tilia to a longterm viable status as a company in it's own right. But in selling Tilia and all that goes with it, to Thunes, well, Thunes is already *in* this sort of business, and already knows how to operate profitably, and already has contracts and connections in the US that are working for them. The acquisition of Tilia and the MTLs in play, will allow Thunes to better serve and expand services to companies and users in the US. LL wins by getting rid of the anchor around it's neck, Thunes wins by getting something they can actually grow by having, and SL wins by everything Thunes brings to the table that Tilia (and SL/LL's homegrown attempts) never managed to do. From a business perspective, this is a win-win.. And LL has baked a 5 year contract into the deal, to try and insulate against those 'ballooning fees' scenarios. It sounds like Thune's main thrust early on will be in expanding cash-OUT options for SL users, especially internationally.. not so much the 'L$ buy' side of things.. and this may still be an area that Thunes will need to work on, or that LL/SL may have to implement in some other way. I suspect we'll see improvements on both sides of that equation over time.. be that more credit cards, the ability to send money to LL via Western Union or to move a Thunes balance from any number of supported sources, to spend on L$, Tier, etc. My largest concern is Tilia's baked-in support for maintaining a balance that can be tapped for Tier and/or premium memberships. But I think we'll see what happens, as things mature with this change in ownership. As Brad said, SL users may not functionally notice any change at all. Only improvements. Here's hoping.

He made it really clear. Thunes is BUYING Tilia, and acquiring the related MTLs (Money Transfer Licenses) and other dependencies from Linden Lab. All of Thunes business function is expected to be folded into the legal entity known as Tilia, and then Tilia will rename itself to Thunes. "Thunes USA" (or whatever Thunes decides to call it) will be operated out of the Battery Street offices. Linden Lab will not be operating or owning Tilia any longer. [6:35] and [12:50]

There's a sort of 'professional company' vibe when you see real people, and use real names. "Hi, I'm Brad Oberwager, owner of Linden Lab", and referring to him as "Brad", etc. Instead it's "Strawberry" talking to "Oberwolf". 27 minutes of watching avatars shifting slightly in chair poses, while two people talk. Compare that to something like this:

I was given the mental image of an aging David Prowse, struggling with arthritis, trying to appear to sit casually on an undersized, wooden kitchen chair. SL's strange "muhmuhmuhmuh" lip movements on voice and head waggles also don't help make things feel 'natural'. Brad's animated and energetic response to questions certainly didn't match the 'posed doll in a dollhouse' presentation. Sure, his pose moved a little here and there, and he wiggled his fingers in strangely inappropriate points, but it just feels like two people talking over an animated screenshot. I feel like some webcams, or cutaways to webpages being scrolled, something.. Coffee is right.. by contrast, Minecraft's announcement videos are works of art.. people talking to the camera, sitting in chairs, sitting in their offices, etc.. And they use their real names too, like Jens Bergensten and Agnes Larsson, not "Jeb_" and "LadyAgnes" most of the time.