Aethelwine

Above 50m any banline you encounter is because of being blacklisted. It might be that an orb has done that. https://sl-aviation.fandom.com/wiki/Ban-line

It might be the car that is causing it or the way the car interacts with that particular track. I am going back some time with my experiences and those are with bikes, but some just work better on some surfaces than others. Making roads and vehicles is in part art, I know when working with prim road pieces you could make the sections match exactly and still get bumps as the vehicle transitioned between them. I would tweak and retweak sections time and time again to minimise the impact. Simbaz was one of the first mesh road builders, but the joins in pieces of her tracks could sometimes throw bikes off the road, wildly even worse than prims. More recent mesh road pieces like those made by Katyproxima seem incredibly tolerant to being misaligned. Bounding boxes for animations can also make a bike prone to misbehaving on mesh roads in particular or roads in general. Alot of vehicles use Karyn's scripts (described as ACS or KCP). It sounds a bit like you might be using one of them since you are talking about those values and her scripts have a lot of tweaking to settings. You can also tweak the values in the vehicle directly in edit. What those numbers should be caries wildly from one vehicle to the next because of the way parts are designated physical and how they contribute to mass. You can look at the wiki for those scripts, but it is really designed for builders rather than for riders. Trial and error is probably the best way to go about setting up your vehicle. I would suggest trying different tracks and different roads to see how it handles them. I am not that keen personally on super heavy bikes\cars, but I know they are (or were) popular especially with racers for holding the track better. It is trial and error with the numbers to get it to handle how you want.

Not being much of a flier myself I am not sure the extent of my sympathy for fliers caught in ban lines. A 50m no fly zone above property doesn't seem so unreasonable. But a case could certainly be made for some visible marker at the top of the banline. It is an interesting discussion for others on how that would be best implemented. Where I do have more sympathy is zero second orbs that extend the entire height of the parcel. They are excessive and recognised as such, at least in Bellisseria. I think the difficulty is perhaps whether the resource needed for policing a prohibition on them is worthwhile. I am inclined to think it would be, but only they really know how much resource they require to do that in Bellisseria, and by extension the rest of mainland to make that judgment.

Personal opinions might not matter to you, but they are important, they are a part of what makes us human and what allows people to come together as a community to work together for collective benefit.

Huh? What has that to do with anything I or anyone else on the thread has said?

What I see in the discussion is the opposite to be honest, Continued assertions of the rights of individual land owners to disregard the context they are living in, and what their neighbours are trying to do regardless of the consequences. And that that person should be immune from judgment or criticism. Something I find profoundly offensive and hypocritical. Do as you wish, as I have said umpteen times and you have ignored. For me people can have ban lines and security without being anti-social. But there are cases where they set up traps for travellers where they in my mind and in those snared in them's view clearly are.

Another issue with this, is that banlines are so rarely seen on waterways that when people do find them like, in Diamonds example it is a nasty surprise. A clear visual clue like displaying them as a 5m wall in the same way a prim would be displayed would make for a huge improvement. Often they don't display until it is too late or at all if they are on a region boundary.

I haven't noticed anyone saying that and certainly not me. I have been very careful to try to give some balance in my responses and allow for the many ways in which security can be used for example when clearly marked out that is not anti-social. There are good uses for orbs, like I think Prok pointed out or someone did in response to them, orbs are often the only way for landlords to give tenants eject rights on their land.

People can say all manner of things it doesn't make them right. If someone saying that is saying that a person coming into their living room is griefing them, then that is fine and makes sense. But an individual using security measures that creates a trap to ensnare travellers (like my water way examples you are responding to) and says that they are being social in their actions is clearly wrong where their neighbours have been careful to make the route otherwise safe to travel. The exclusion they are creating is anti-social to their neighbours and to the travellers using that route. You say we shouldn't go judging them, because they might be introverted?.. If they are introverted then their actions are clearly not going to be helpful to them. Whether you like it or not they will be judged, people will feel griefed when their boat hits their banline, when their neighbour realises that the otherwise open water way has now been spoiled and some will express that to the person. If you have advised an introvert that has done that to stick with their guns, they are doing nothing wrong... then I am afraid that is terrible advice, damaging to the individual, their relationships with their neighbours and the community they have chosen to live in.

You also know Linden lab give us the tools to grief people with replicating spammers, to target people with particles. Just because the tools are there doesn't mean it is okay to use them. If people do as you say and should never set foot outside a linden passageway on their vehicle then everyone loses so much, the landowners that build bypasses and through ways. The collective of landowners that have built a passageway across the top of nautilus could not be enjoyed because there is no Linden Passageway there, the passage is created by the collective will of the 20 or more landowners opening their land up along that route. That narrow one dimensional view of rights has us losing so much freedom and so much opportunity as land owners and as a group to make a more creative and fulfilling world.

I prefer when referring to excessive use of security to terms relating to them being anti-social rather than griefing for this reason. Although as I say above griefing in some cases can in my mind can be reasonably argued. Parcels open for community purposes are social places. Private spaces aren't intended to be social in the same way, but they become anti-social when they start becoming disruptive to their neighbours and traffic.

I can use the tools that Linden Lab gives me to do any number of undesirable things. A friend regularly sends me particle hearts directed at me as part of a gesture they use to greet me, it is cute and always brings a smile to my face. If I was to use that same tool on someone sat behind their banline they may well feel like I was invading their personal space, that I was griefing them. The section of policy relating to that says "Linden Lab aims to provide users with an enjoyable experience on the Service. Please be mindful that your actions may cause slow server performance or may inhibit another user’s ability to enjoy the Service." That same line could apply to badly used banlines or security as it can abuse of particle followers. Now I am not saying that a parcel adjacent to a waterway, clearly marked by walls up to the edge of their boundary with a banline or orb could reasonably be said to be griefing to traffic going past. I wouldn't say they are being particularly social, perhaps anti-social but not in an especially concerning way. On the other hand there are parcels, like one I know between Sea of Fables and Mare Secondus that is of minimum width and extends from the water bank across part of the waterway right up to the linden protected waterway, close to a corner. The security there is extremely unlikely to be there for protecting anyone's privacy, it is hard not to come to the conclusion the intent there is to inhibit peoples ability to enjoy the protected waterway. And that their intent is to disrupt and cause grief for travellers. Griefing. I can think of a few cases where people have parcel's in terrain terraformed to be waterway that are larger than that and could possibly be said to be there for the privacy of the owners. But if they are protecting their privacy why is their build in the sky and not in the area the banline is protecting? I can see they might misunderstand how their banlines work, but they will have been told politely countless times and probably less politely too that their security decision with banlines is not serving any useful purpose for them. So they should by now know that their continued use of their security is griefing peoples enjoyment of the linden water way and its intended purpose. Again then a situation that could easily fall under a definition of griefing and against TOS against inhibiting people's enjoyment of the service provided. For communities to survive and thrive in real life and virtual worlds neighbours have to work together or at least in ways that don't cause conflict.

An orb can be the best option for distributing security powers around your staff when there are insufficient group roles available or where control of the land group is indirect like it would be on a rental.

I disagree with the sentiment that because land owners can use orbs, banlines then they should. I can do all sorts of things that are undesirable. just because I can do something doesn't mean I should. Whether the use of orbs and banlines is justified depends on context. I also disagree that people using the roads or waterways are entirely responsible if they hit an orb or transgress off a linden passageway and encounter problems. The vast majority of landowners along public routes appreciate the value of their parcel having unrestricted access along those routes. There are many routes that require going over private parcels and others that are difficult to navigate without making a tight corner turn, or where the linden route is just a mess of varying sized width. Over zealous security along such routes, is obnoxious to travellers and to their neighbours. The Landowner has better options using limited range orbs, or orbs with a timer. Many of us spend much of our tier on land we encourage people to enter and enjoy. This going on private held land is bad attitude is alien to me and antithetical to our investment and enjoyment. The majority of people along public waterways and roads pay the premium to enjoy the public access along those routes. Landowners should feel encouraged to collaborate and open up routes and passages across areas that have no Linden protected access.

A wall texture on the outside of a physical prim even if phantom and only on the outside, so you don't see it would work well at ground level up to wall height without annoying the neighbours. That would work over water but you might prefer to use marker buoys instead like these: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/HVW-Regulatory-Buoys/21050118

I think the big Ktaba J-Class boats have the deepest keels... part of the fun is planning your route ahead to avoid the shallows, especially around Nautilus.

They did introduce a problem with region crossings when they moved to the cloud severs. It affects some people and some vehicles, it affects me especially badly on Motorloon's boats, I can reliably have the boat forget I am standing on it and come to a stop within one or two region crossings. For mod boats using avsitter for poses there is a solution with replacement scripts that will work with mod boats. Uggo has a fix for Avsit 1.29 and for Avsitter 2.2. Carla Wetter has also released her fix for Avsitter 2.2. They both deserve a credit because they investigated my experience and came up with a solution. Others report improved performance with the scripts too and the latest boat from Dutch harbor comes pre-released with Uggo''s scripts and a credit to him in the release notes. Unfortunately the MLCC Oceanic like the Loonetta is no mod, so the likelihood of getting those working again for me at least seems remote and dependent on Motorloon coming back to SL. Really Linden Lab should fix the problem, but I am not sure if they have even acknowledged there is a problem I raised it on a Jira that then got closed and hidden from me. I don't really know what I am doing with Jira's so maybe my fault. But it is what it is and there is a problem for MLCC boats and other no mod boats, but at least a fix for mod ones using Avsitter.

The mini-map (Ctrl Shift M in firestorm) is the best tool for navigating and spotting voids. Also by R-clicking it and selecting Show Property Lines, you can see the boundaries of parcels that with a little pattern recognition will help you to recognise rezz areas and linden protected passages when you are in less open regions. As well as bumping in to voids, another possibility is your Power Yacht if one of the large ones using more prims than available, so the region won't let you enter. You are most likely to encounter this problem on residential regions, like those in Honah Lee, Sailors Cove, Second Norway etc. The Blake Sea regions themselves are mostly open water with a few public "mole built" islands and landscaping they will generally have thousands of free prims. A boat using 200 prims or less will generally be okay even in the residential areas, but not always if someone has gone over prim or someone has moored their Mega Yacht there.

There is no need to have a quarter region for your club. Too big a space will make it feel empty even when you have people there. Make your club the size you can afford and enjoy running it, as you build up regulars if they want to contribute to a bigger space then that is something to think about, but until then keep it small.

Fascinating, I had always wondered what the history was.

Well they could be a bit more proactive with regards to infrastructure, the passage they made between route 8A and the wagon road 10 years ago that they never actually laid road on is one glaring example of their neglect with that regard. There must be many other achievable improvements they have considered and then forgotten about. Another thing they could do is declare that for mainland parcels that are on waterways, Bellisseria type rules would now apply to guarantee passage along the waterway. Any builds they put up to not be obstructive to that, no banlines over water and any orbs to have reasonable timers to allow people to pass through. It would no doubt upset a handful of people affected, but the majority would be over the moon because the value of their land and function of it would be protected.

The broken bridge on route 8 in Fenric now has a bridge rezzer next to it put in by the owner of the ERG store nearby. Click their sign and it rezzes replacement section of road for 4 minutes. I think that is cool addition without spoiling the Moles intentions.

The parcel the Osiliers road is on is showing claimed in June 2021. I vaguely remember someone having a Jira request for that to be put in and reporting it on the forum, but I might be mistaken.