Coby Foden

Phil Deakins wrote: Ok. I'm at 4000m, standing on a cube, and had my FPS at ~45. I set the MaxFPS to 30, as you suggested, but it didn't change my framerate one bit. So I relogged to the same place, just in case it needed it to take effect, and my framerate was in the 70s, where it stays as long as the viewer has the focus. So setting the MaxFPS in the current LL viewer doesn't have any effect. At last not for me. In Firestorm viewer there are two separate debug settings: one for setting and one for locking the fps. • MaxFPS • FSLimitFrameRate MaxFPS sets the desired frame rate (but it does not lock - by itself - the frame to this value). FSLimitFrameRate locks the frame to the value given in MaxFPS [values are: True/False]. In Linden Lab viewer there is only MaxFPS. It appears that Linden Lab forgot something in their viewer - the result being that MaxFPS does nothing useful in their viewer.

Most probably you won't get a reply from followmeimthe Piedpiper as they did the "general clearout and re-load" over two years ago. What was done, here is my guess (no guarantee given that this the right guess, but it most probably is not far from the actual fact): • Uninstall the viewer • After that clear manually all traces left of that viewer from the computer -- settings -- cache • Re-install the viewer

Ok, thanks for the clarification. A simple video how to use SL clothing templates in GIMP. It shows how to open a clothing template, how to change the colour for the template area, and it shows how to add another texture on the template. I guess you get the idea by watching the video. I don't still get why you want to use the textures exported from SL as brushes in GIMP. Well anyway if do want to do that, in GIMP help there is instruction how to save a texture in GIMP to be used as a brush. I paste the info here: Adding New Brushes to GIMP To add a new brush, after either creating or downloading it, you need to save it in a format GIMP can use. The brush file needs to be placed in the GIMP's brush search path, so that GIMP is able to index and display it in the Brushes dialog. You can hit the Refresh button, which reindexes the brush directory. The .gbr ("gimp brush") format is used for ordinary and color brushes. You can convert many other types of images, including many brushes used by other programs, into GIMP brushes by opening them in GIMP and saving them with file names ending in .gbr. So, where should the brush files be saved? To find it out where to, from the GIMP menu select "Edit, Preferences" and from there look at "Folders, Brushes". There you can see the folder where you need to save the new brushes what you create.

BroderickLogan wrote: Yeah not sure how I ended up with the older version, but I got 2.8 installed now. I've saved the textures to where it says to save them. Now just need to figure out where to go to pull them up and apply them. I must say that I don't get what exactly you want to do? In your first post you said that you saved textures from SL to your computer. Ok that part is clear. I assume that you want to open those textures in Gimp. Is my assumption right? When you save the textures from SL to your computer you can define the folder in your computer where to save them. Then if you just want to open those files in Gimp, just go to that folder with Gimp and open the files you want. There is no other magic in that. Then do with the files whatever you wanted to do with them in Gimp. If you want to save the files in Gimp format, then just do "File, save". It will save the files in Gimp's file format (xcf). If you want to save in some other format then do "File, Export" and select the file format. If you want to save the files so that you can import them back to SL, then you can use TGA and PNG file formats (don't use JPG file format, it just degrades the quality). What I didn't understand in your last post are these your words: I've saved the textures to where it says to save them. Now just need to figure out where to go to pull them up and apply them. Erm, what do you mean? • What says where to save them, SL or Gimp? • Apply them [the textures] to what?

Organs? Well, the OP might not be aware that we are totally empty inside. Except for the avatar brain which is inside our skull. :smileytongue:

bosco234 wrote: Good morning I share snapshot and for some the pictures dont appear on my page, i receive this message : You have 5 photos in process. And the snapshots never appear after fews days , What i can do ? Sometimes that happens. After taking snapshot to profile it's good to check does it appear in the profile. The snapshot should appear in the profile within few minutes. If it doesn't appear, just take a new one. Just delete the ones staying long time "in process" from your profile - they will never appear. There is nothing we can do to force them to appear.

Occasionally one can still see somebody wearing a facelight so powerful that it would be enough to light a whole city! :smileysurprised: :smileyindifferent: :matte-motes-sunglasses-1:

Oopss... sorry. This?

:matte-motes-big-grin: :heart:

:heart: :matte-motes-big-grin:

Mikki Miles wrote: I found this: Thank you for reporting this issue. Our Community team is aware of it and has already taken steps to mitigate the problem. Thanks, The Lindens JIRA, BUG-5741 Yay! :matte-motes-big-grin: It's always worth making a BUG report. If one gets rejected without actions (like has happened in this particular issue), then make another one. There is always a possibility that things get eventually corrected.

Phil Deakins wrote: You obviously misunderstood what I wrote on that post, perhaps because I didn't write it clearly enough. Very probably so. Sometimes it is a bit hard for me to understand what exactly you mean. I guess the same happens to you with my posts, sometimes.

Phil Deakins wrote: Coby Foden wrote: Because you still don't quite get it Yes I do get it. That's very excellent that you got it Phil. That's great. :smileyhappy: I just had my doubts as you still said in your post "It doesn't matter to this topic but it occurs to me that it's not actually another layer." I wondered why it still "occured" to you that the basic "Linden Skin" is not another layer? The two skins are without any shade of doubt two separate layers. I did say in my post that you understood the texture baking process pretty well. That's good. I just wanted to make this texturing matter totally clear because many others, new users, non-posters might be reading this thread too. It might not matter to the original (OP's) topic, but this thread has expanded a bit further from that, so it does matter now. So: • All avatar textures are layered (including the two skins :smileyhappy:) • The avatar rendering is done with the baked unlayered textures I guess perhaps we finally are in agreement about the avatar texturing matter. Or pretty close anyway. :smileywink:

Phil Deakins wrote: It would help a bit if shape-edit had the option of using the actual lighting at the time as well as, or instead of, the flat lighting that it uses now, or even have several preset choices of lighting. There are two ways to disable the additional edit appearance light in Linden Lab viewer: 1. When editing avatar's appearance: To not to have it to go into a pose mode - from "Preferences, Move & View" do this: • Unselect "Automatic position for: Appearance" Then the avatar does not go into pose mode, and the additional light does not turn on. 2. If you want to keep the "Automatic position for: Appearance" selected (avatar goes into pose mode), then just enable: "Preferences, Graphics, Advanced Lighting Model". Then the appearance edit light does not turn on. I tested these two methods in Linden Lab viewer: Second Life 3.7.6 (289164) and it works as explained above. [ETA] In this viewer version I cannot find the debug setting "EditAppearanceLighting" at all what Ren Toxx mentioned.

To continue still further, I found very interesting page were there is information about avatar texture layering - among other interesting things. The image below (copied from that web page) shows the texture layering. There is text above it saying: "Skinning an avatar involves a collection of 2D textures that are applied to the base avatar's meshes in very specific ways. They're layered onto the avatar in a specific order. See the graphic below. The lower layers are partially or fully covered by the ones above them." Here's the link to the page: http://avatartoolbox.info/Skins.html In the server baking process the layering is flattened: • All textures for the head are baked into one single texture - the baked texture is sent to the viewer - the viewer applies this texture to the avatar's head mesh faces, the viewer renders the image • All textures for the upper body are baked into one single texture; the baked texture is sent to the viewers - the baked texture is sent to the viewer - the viewer applies this texture to the avatar's upper body mesh faces, the viewer renders the image • All textures for the lower body are baked into one single texture; the baked texture is sent to the viewers - the baked texture is sent to the viewer - the viewer applies this texture to the avatar's lower body mesh faces, the viewer renders the image So, (note to Phil): all avatar system textures are layered. But the rendering on the avatar shape (body) is done with the flattened unlayered baked textures. So, when we look at the avatar inworld there is only one single texture rendered on head, one single texture rendered on the upper body, one single texture rendered on the lower body. But, behind the scenes, unrendered, there are all those texture layers.

magickspell wrote: I activate a face light and ... You do a great service to everybody if you don't wear any facelight at all. You really don't need it. Thanks. :matte-motes-smile:

Phil Deakins wrote: Yes, I see what you mean now. I put a window texture (a window frame with transparent glass) on the upper body and the the 'linden skin' is showing inside the window frame. So there does appear to be another layer underneath the skin. For this discussion, though, that layer simply shows the form of the shape, just as a normal skin does, and not the actual shape 'thing' itself. It doesn't matter to this topic but it occurs to me that it's not actually another layer. It's simply that, when drawing the avatar, the viewer first draws the basic 'linden skin' and then draws the desired skin on top of that, meaning that the 'linden' skin is no longer drawn when the required skin has overwritten it, meaning that it's not another layer. But, then, what is layer?. It's a layer of drawing that overwrites what was was there before it and, in the end, there is only one layer, no matter how many are actually drawn. You probably always think of it that way but, never having had any reason to think about it before, I'm just learning it as we're discussing it, thinking about it, and writing it But we've digressed Because you still don't quite get it, although very close, but not completely there in understanding how the the skins work, I add something here to clarify things. The Linden Skin textures and the designed skin textures indeed are on separate layers. Which I demonstrated in my picture in my earlier post. You can make similar skin, to play with in edit, as in my example and play with the skin sliders. You will see that they affect only the Linden Skin texturing, not the designed skin texturing. If they are not on separate layers how would that be possible? (Please don't mix the shape here now, we are talking about the textures applied on the shape, not the shape itself.) :smileyindifferent: So, the above is what happens first when we make a new skin, or change skin. Then next step is that the texture baking starts its work in the server. The baking process bakes the original layered textures (textures for: skins, system clothing, tattoos, alpha masks) on a single layer. (You understood this process pretty well.) For simplicity, let's assume that in this experiment the avatar is wearing only the Linden Skin and the designed skin. Ok, the server looks what textures both of those skins have. The server knows the order of layering for those textures. To illustrate the baking process in an easy way, let's imagine that there is a virtual baking table in the server. So, first the server puts the Linden Skin textures on the baking table, then on top of those it puts the designed skin textures. Then it presses the "bake" button. The result is that instead of the original six separate textures, there are now only three baked textures left - the Linden Skin textures and the designed skin textures baked together. If the designed skin textures were completely opaque, no Linden Skin texture will be seen in those baked textures (because the designed skin textures were on top of Linden skin textures). Similarly, if there were transparent or semi-transparent areas in the designed skin textures, then the Linden Skin textures will be seen in those areas in the baked textures. What the server does next is that it sends those baked textures to the viewers and the viewers will renders them on screens. This same baking process, done in the servers, applies to all system clothes too. The net effect is that there is less work and traffic for system textures. [ETA] Still more to clarify: after the baking process all avatar's system textures are cleanly and effectively on a single layer and are shown on the avatar shape's faces.

You're right Freya. Here's one test I made. The head has no designed textures, so the Linden Head texture shows. Upper and lower body have designed skin textures. All the sliders in the tabs Skin Color, Face Detail, Makeup and Body Detail affect only the Linden Skin texture, they have no effect to the opaque designed textures. So it clearly shows that designed skin and Linden Skin are different things.

Phil Deakins wrote: So it still seems to me that this 'Linden skin' is just a normal skin, like any other skin, and not an extra layer of any kind. Sorry, Coby, but on the evidence of this test I have to disagree with you about the extra 'Linden skin' layer. Sorry Phil, but you're wrong in thinking that the Linden Skin is not different from the "normal" designed skin. :matte-motes-big-grin: Make parts of your skin textures transparent (they will be like see through holes). When you do that then you can see your designed skin and from those transparent parts you can see the Linden Skin. So, the Linden Skin and designed skin are not the same. They both exist separately and are layered. PS. As a proof of the fact, when I go inworld I make some screenshots about the Linden Skin. The three small thumbnail images of it can be accessed when you know where to look. I'll post the screenshots here later. [ETA] Even easier without the need to make new textures. Just leave for example the head slot empty. Then you can see the Linden Skin on your head, and in the upper and lower body you can see your skin textures.

Perrie Juran wrote: What I want to know is why isn't there a big market for Avatar Brains? Hi Perrie, please look closely at the picture in my earlier post in this thread: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Can-you-tell-me-what-are-skins-vs-shapes/m-p/2703676#M179103 Can you see the denser mesh concentration inside the avatar's skull? That is the Avatar Brain. :matte-motes-big-grin: :smileywink:

Theresa Tennyson wrote: Phil Deakins wrote: One bit of information that hasn't been mentioned is that a shape cannot be seen. It doesn't actually exist. Skins are textures and they do exist. Like the shape, you can't remove it but you can replace it. This time you do literally replace it. You replace the texture on your shape with another one. If a shape without a skin doesn't "exist", how can a skin exist without a shape? It's impossible to see a skin in-world unless it's on an avatar shape, and it's impossible to see a texture in-world unless it's on an object. If you want to be logically consistent either shapes/objects and textures/skins both exist or neither do. After the long debate with Phil I have been thinking this matter a bit more. Phil still says that the shape is not a "thing" in its own right. On the other hand he says that a texture is a thing in its own right. ( I hope I got it right Phil... :matte-motes-big-grin:) Here is what I think at this point of the discussion: • Avatar shape, or an object, is an item, a "thing". It surely does exist. • Texture is an item, a "thing". This surely does exist too. • Avatar shape, or an object, and a texture can only co-exist inworld (i.e. to be rezzed and to be seen). • Neither one can be rezzed inworld, to be seen, without the other. And I think that Phil's statement that "a shape cannot be seen" is not correct. Of course we can see the shape inworld. The shape is just painted over with skin textures. We can see the shape and we can see the skin art work covering the shape; we see them both simultaneously. Painting over some object does not prevent us seeing what shape an object has. A texture has zero thickness anyway, it does not hide the shape's form a slightest bit.

Phil Deakins wrote: Then I don't see how it is any different to any other skin, apart from the fact that it doesn't have any pretty drawings on it. It doesn't strike me as being a different layer to any other skin. Well, the Linden Skin is the undermost texture what is applied to the avatar shape: The Linden Skin is always on the avatar shape. It has three, its own separate texture slots. For head, for upper body and lower body. We cannot access those Linden Skin texture slots. So we cannot replace the Linden Skin textures with our own textures. We can only acces the three texture slots intended for the designed skin textures. When we put textures on there, then they will cover the Linden Skin. The Linden Skin is still there under our won designed skin. If "scratch" our designed skin textures a bit (i.e. leaving parts of the texture transparent) the Linden skin shows through those transparent parts. Therefore it is obvious to me that the Linden Skin is on separate layer from our own designed skin. Linden Skin is under, designed skin is on top. I think that indeed is layering the skin textures.

Phil Deakins wrote: I would have assumed that a new skin is just a blank skin, just like any other skin but blank instead of having pretty drawings on it - a blank canvas, like a new shirt is just a blank shirt. Your assumption is pretty close to correct. When you create a new skin, then wear it, and edit it - a window named "Appearance, Editing Skin" pops up in the viewer. On the upper part of this window you see three squares for the skin textures. Linden Lab has named them with misleading names: • Head Tatto • Upper Tatto • Lower Tatto Those are the places were we put the three designed beautiful skin textures: Head texture, Upper body texture, Lower body texture. Those three textures make up what is called a skin (the beautiful designed one). If those three skin textures are opaque then they will totally cover the Linden Skin, out of sight. The three new designed skin textures are like like a new paint on the house covering the old paint. If we don't put any textures on those three skin texture squares, leaving them empty, then what we see on our avatar is the Linden Skin.

Phil Deakins wrote: Pussycat Catnap wrote: I do wonder what happened to the original poster though... He never came back or, if he did, he didn't say anything. It might be that the OP got scared off by the mess we are making here. :smileysurprised: :smileyindifferent:

Phil Deakins wrote: Coby Foden wrote: Of course we know that we cannot see a texture floating inworld by itself, without an object. I'm just teasing you about your statement "you can see it. Just open it." Why did you start talking about shapes as a reply to my teasing statement? Trying to mix my flow of thinking, eh? :smileywink: Yes but you see it. You can't do that with a shape Good try, Phil. :matte-motes-big-grin: But a group of people cannot see it inworld. It can be seen only in everybody's viewer's texture viewing window. If that for you is "seeing inworld" then be it so, for you. For me, and I'm sure for many others, it's not "seeing inworld". :smileytongue: