Third Party Viewers

[WindRider Taiyang]

We just read the changes in the third party viewer rules.  Sounds to me like Linden Labs is saying "You can't play my game unless I can have all the toys first!"  How dare you, Linden Labs?  If your think tank is not smart enough to come up with the innovations that make your viewer friendly, efficient, and enjoyable, then hire the people who CAN do it!  Third party viewers have arisen because you won't listen to your customers'  desires, or just don't care what they want.  

In either case, don't run your business based on jealously for Pete's sake.  Take a hint from the popularity of the third party viewers and upgrade your viewer to be competitive.  Don't say other's can't be innovative, just because you can't figure it out. It's that kind of attitude that could make me mad enough to stop playing Second LIfe. after 5 1/2 years of game play.

WindRider Taiyang

[Jennifer Boyle]

I read it, after I finally found it.  Can somebody tell me what "...any feature that alters the shared experience of the virtual world in any way not provided by or accessible to users of the latest released Linden Lab viewer" actually means?

Maybe I'm just missing something.  If I am, please tell me.  It seems to me that LL regularly announces important changes by posting something in an obscure place where most residents won't see it.  Why aren't such things announced on the blog and the startup screen, where many more people would see them?

[Samm Florian]

This could be a big deal or it could be nothing.  The question I have for LL is this: Are there any features  in the current TPVs which violate this policy?  For example, is RLV OK? Can Firestorm continue to show us which viewer another avi is using?

What specific features did they have in mind when they wrote this policy, specifically the third one about the "shared experience"?

 

[Ansariel Hiller]

Firestorm and any other viewer will be not allowed to display any others viewer anymore. The currently used system will be actively broken by LL with the next server release between upcoming Tuesday and Wednesday. RLV will be ok because it only affects your personal experience. What actually would fall into section 2.k would be the old Emerald-style additional attachment spots because others would see objects floating around you. Parcel windlight would fall into that category too, but will be tolerated by the Lab until they have an adequate replacement in place.

[Miranda Umino]

Oz Linden has given an instance , and in my opinion , it s  a perfect example .

 

The last years , with the emerald viewer you could have second attachements . Nevertheless , the other viewers couldn t show the avatar as the avatar was shown on emerald viewers .

So, try to  explain "it s an exepected feature" to newcomers who see people with emerald viewers with their hair in their ass or floating 10 m behind them ....

 

I don t think RLV violates this policy . To keep it simple , if i am using a viewer without RLV , and i see other people playing with RLV , i see them moving and acting in the same way.

 

So ,  WindRider Taiyang  writing "You can't play my game unless I can have all the toys first!"  is a totally wrong . 

 

 You may hear oz linden and having a sum of the transcript 

http://yournymph.blogspot.com/2012/02/policy-on-third-party-viewers-changed.html?zx=d783502bffdb50c3

[WolfBaginski Bearsfoot]

I have enough of a hearing problem, age and too many loud noises, that I struggle with voice in SL. Some things work but, without an official transcript, I feel I can't rely on anything out there attempting to interpret this new policy.

Putting out critical interpretation examples only as a voice session might be taken as an attempt at plausible deniability. Famously, a verbal contract isn't worth the paper it is written on. Oz Linden, by his actions, seems to have opened a huge legal can of worms.

And if, as I have heard alleged, Oz gave the reason for killing off Viewer Tags as griefers, all I can say is that I have little confidence in the way Linden Labs deals with griefers. It is a system of hidden and arbitrary justice, totally unreported which hence does nothing to affect the behaviour of potential griefers. Though I suppose if there are people using voice to abuse user of the Linden lab viewer, nobody can provide evidence of what was happening: voice in unloggable and deniable.

Part of this is a social problem, not a technical one. But the Lindens seem incapable of dealing with social problems, often resorting to some ingenious and expensive technical fix. They appear to ignore whay paying customers say. On the subject of Linden Labs communication, polite words often fail me.

 

[Miranda Umino]

I am sorry but i don t understand one word what you tell .

It s illogic , panoid and crazy .. A kind of theory of conspiracy or something like this .. 

one instance betwen serveral : you tell that voice is uloggable after i have given you the mp3 of the voice ...

 

Seriously , i think it s yourself who has a social problem . Breath deeply , relax down , make a rest , take some hollidays .. Surely you will think better later 

 

[Cincia Singh]

The reason doesn't matter. Viewer tags ... gone Tuesday/Wednesday. Finding out someone's online when they don't want you to ... gone. All viewers sticking to official new features ... the rule of the day. They've got server updates waiting to be deployed to make the server side changes. Save yourself some anxiety and move on because it's neither the end of the world nor worth fretting over because it's been decided. 

[WolfBaginski Bearsfoot]

I shall try to use short, simple words

My hearing is not good.

I cannot search a voice recording for specific terms in the way I can search a Chat log or an official text transcript. And you know as well as I just how long this session is.

Yes, you have made a voice recording available. Thanks. A voice session is a piss-poor way of documenting this major Policy change, not just because I am a half-deaf freak who can be accused of being a social misfit.

 

 

[Miranda Umino]

I am sorry . For now it s only what i can offer to you . Nevertheless , there were a sum in the same page . Unfortunately it won t be exhaustive . Check it if it can help you . To my side , i am going to check if there is better . Sometimes , the transcripts are not published the next day but later

[Lynna Yorcliffe]

QUESTIONS - are they going to 'fix' the groups so that you cant see which of your group members are online? Because if you know and are a member of the same group as someone else it has been in the past rather easy to look in the group member list to see if they were really online or not.

ALSO.. Are they going to make the server 'fake' a response that the member is not online. Currently it has been IF the member was really offline you would get a message from the server if you sent them a IM, or a notecard or any inventory that the user was offline........ etc etc.  Hard to fake not being online to would be 'stalkers' when the system tattle tales on you.

Considering the above..... whats the point outlawing true online status in third party viewers and huds? It's a game, it doesnt give you access into their home or to their rl info if you see someone is online. Are they going to be making avatars invisible to friends in the same location if you have your online status turned off? What if you happen to be in a place and they show up. Whoops .............. must be a technical screw up I swear..... I didnt hide from you in the friend list.

Yeah right. OKAY and on this thing about not adding any functionality that isnt already included in the second life viewer - REALLY ? No RLV ? No enhanced radar ? No enhanced inventory search by creators name ? Shall I go on ?

I think this decision to add these additional rules into the TPV policy really suck. I'm finding more and more reasons why I come to SL less and less and visit other grids more and more.

What's wrong with this picture ?

You buy hundreds of dollars real money in inventory here in SL over a period of time and you are not allowed a backup.

IF for some reason - SL was no longer in business - none of our content could be taken out or used elsewhere so all that work, time and money gone forever?

 

[Ceka Cianci]

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Lynna Yorcliffe wrote:

QUESTIONS - are they going to 'fix' the groups so that you cant see which of your group members are online? Because if you know and are a member of the same group as someone else it has been in the past rather easy to look in the group member list to see if they were really online or not.

ALSO.. Are they going to make the server 'fake' a response that the member is not online. Currently it has been IF the member was really offline you would get a message from the server if you sent them a IM, or a notecard or any inventory that the user was offline........ etc etc.  Hard to fake not being online to would be 'stalkers' when the system tattle tales on you.

Considering the above..... whats the point outlawing true online status in third party viewers and huds? It's a game, it doesnt give you access into their home or to their rl info if you see someone is online. Are they going to be making avatars invisible to friends in the same location if you have your online status turned off? What if you happen to be in a place and they show up. Whoops .............. must be a technical screw up I swear..... I didnt hide from you in the friend list.

Yeah right. OKAY and on this thing about not adding any functionality that isnt already included in the second life viewer - REALLY ? No RLV ? No enhanced radar ? No enhanced inventory search by creators name ? Shall I go on ?

I think this decision to add these additional rules into the TPV policy really suck. I'm finding more and more reasons why I come to SL less and less and visit other grids more and more.

What's wrong with this picture ?

You buy hundreds of dollars real money in inventory here in SL over a period of time and you are not allowed a backup.

IF for some reason - SL was no longer in business - none of our content could be taken out or used elsewhere so all that work, time and money gone forever?

 

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i wonder why it was added when there were and are so many other ways to see someone online anyways..it wasn't needed..the only reason i could think of is to get more users to the tpv's..

i never thought it was a good idea in the first place..because sooner or later  there would be enough people that would be blaming this feature for lack of privacy..here we are like a year or so later with it under the gun..

 

also client side features are not under the gun..and rlv doesn't look at user online status it looks at the viewer from what i have heard on it..

also they don't mention anything about not adding any functionality that are not already in the LL viewer..

they just don't want any feature that will alter the shared experience between a person on an LL viewer and a tpv..

they are not talking about client side features..just those that impact the world that go beyond the client side where another user in the world can see the feature..but not in the same way as the one using the feature from a tpv..

if they can see or experience them in the same way in world ..it is not altering the shared experience and doesn't fall under the rules..

so any functionality they would be talking about is a shared one  not a client side one..

 

 

2.a.iii : You must not provide any feature that circumvents any privacy protection option made available through a Linden Lab viewer or any Second Life service.

2.i : You must not display any information regarding the computer system, software, or network connection of any other Second Life user.

2.j : You must not include any information regarding the computer system, software, or network connection of the user in any messages sent to other viewers, except when explicitly elected by the user of your viewer.

2.k : You must not provide any feature that alters the shared experience of the virtual world in any way not provided by or accessible to users of the latest released Linden Lab viewer.

[JoJo Aurelia]

I'm so sick and tired of being confused by LL. I've sent millions of hours building a business in this world only to find out that GOD is messing around with the cosmos again. I need a new world. This is nuts! I Have so many questions I don't know where to start.

[Feldspar Millgrove]

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Faye Feldragonne wrote:

I'm so sick and tired of being confused by LL. I've sent millions of hours building a business in this world only to find out that GOD is messing around with the cosmos again.

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This is the essence of Second Life, and how it has always been.

For various reasons, people suppose that Second Life is a stable place.  But it has always been more of a wild ride into the unknown, with the rules and the world changing out from under you.  Sudden and unpredictable, very difficult to deal with.  It has always been this way.  It probably will always be that way.