Time to fix the Inventory Database

[Lydia Craig]

Since yesterday's restart the inventory database has not been working and logins are taking hours due to its multiple failures.  Dumping cache appears to do little good and it is just a question of logging again and again until you finally get lucky and inventory loading does not time out.  I dont think LL or even its most ardent apologist can call thist decent service, and it is certainly not the kind of service calculated to satisfy people with paying account, tier to pay and businesses to run. This is just one of many examples of why long term players have been leaving sl in droves and why this trend will continue unless LL takes the time and effort to correct and and return SL to some degree of stability. If at this point you find me a bit unhappy with the service we are getting SL you would be right, for there is no excuse for this kind of sloppy testing and programming other than the simple fact those who are writing the code simple do not care and know they are totally unaccountable for their actions.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I've not been noticing any particular problems since yesterday, Lydia, and I've not heard anything about problems with the inventory database (doesn't mean there haven't been localised ones that have affected you but not me, of course).

What viewer are you using, and what's your internet connection looking like (test with something like http://www.speedtest.net/ to San Francisco -- that's as good an indication as any, though as I understand it, the actual servers are in several different places)?

[Marigold Devin]

I'm sure LL will be only too happy to bring back the old system of closing off Second Life completely for eight hours at a time, so they can roll out new code, and test it on the main grid, to be absolutely sure it will be 100% perfect, before they allow us all to log back in again.

They're always having to modify a running program; never easy (or advisable to do), and not a straightforward 'game' where they create everything either. 

So I believe there are excuses for things being less than perfect, and I think it is grossly offensive to use such a term as "...there is no excuse for this kind of sloppy testing and programming..."  The people who write the code DO care very much actually.

You are frustrated, ok, but you are also coming across as very ignorant and arrogant. You have no idea what exactly goes on behind the scenes at the Lab.

 

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Edited to add.

I've been in on several different accounts since the latest rollouts too, and agree with Innula, have not experienced such problems. However, Innula is far more tolerant than me. I am sick of hearing people bellyaching when they don't have a clue what goes on backstage, and are just throwing a mardy.



[Madelaine McMasters]

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Marigold Devin wrote:

So I believe there are excuses for things being less than perfect, and I think it is grossly offensive to use such a term as "...there is no excuse for this kind of sloppy testing and programming..."  The people who write the code DO care very much actually.

You are frustrated, ok, but you are also coming across as very ignorant and arrogant. You have no idea what exactly goes on behind the scenes at the Lab.

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Yeah, any frustration I have over glitches in the system pales in comparison to the wonder I have that this big ball of yarn called SL works at all.

[Marigold Devin]

And none of it is real !

/me stares up into the vastness of the sky to howl at the moon.

[Theresa Tennyson]

My understanding is that avatar inventory is handled by a completely separate system from the region simulators that are the subjects of weekly software updates and restarts. A problem with one may have nothing to do with the other. 

[Faithless Babii]

Since yesterday, magically ALL of my inventory loaded. for simply ages a aprrox 3000 items never showed up..despite all efforts...now its hog heaven ...all that gear I thought Id lost is back ! (yes, Im spinning around on one leg,chanting ..so I dont break the spell)

[Chelsea Malibu]

Saying that LL need to fix their DB is like saying our governments needs to fix our national debts. And even then, can it be fixed at this point.

1. They are the reason we have the problems-they caused it

2. They don't have the knowledge to fix it.

Above all else, LL has always made bad databases.  I don't know if it's due to bad DBA hiring or the fact that they have far outgrown MySQL.  If they brought in Oracle and had them spend a year on a re-write they could fix it.  Of course this takes time and money and is it just me or has anyone else noticed that LL seems to have little concern over fixing old issues?

The inventory system has been as mess as has search since the game launched.  Don't get me wrong, it is better and I still love SL but I sure wish they would invest into these areas and stop wasting their time on "cool" features we really didn't ask for or want.

[Sigren Panthar]

Spoken like a true apologist who conveniently forgets just who the customers are, here.  A clue; it isn't LL.

 

As for the OP's remark being grossly offensive?  I think not.

 

As a customer, the OP used their rights to complain about aspects of the service they find unsatisfactory.   

 

Pretending that everything LL do is wonderful is as bad as people who say everything they do is terrible.   The simple fact is LL do somethings very well, and deserve praise when they do so.   Equally, when they mess up their customers have every right to complain.....which is where we run into problems on these forums, heavily patrolled as they are by the same handful of shills who launch virulent attacks on anyone who dares to level any critical question at LL, regardless of any actual merit.

[Lydia Craig]

Perhaps you who have not noticed any p[roblems have been too busy in the forums trying to downplay the problems that are being reported.  As for myself I am stuck on an RC server for which I just paid 47.50 for tier and service I am not getting because I am spending, since the RC update an average of 5 hours a day trying to log in due to LLs crippled database. I realize for you who haunt the forums and defend LL tooth and nail this is not a problem. but even if it were with your blinders I doubt you would see it anyway.  Basically, I have reached the point where I am sick and tired of paying over 200 usd a year for service I am more often and not not getting. 

Now dont get me wrong I do not blame this problem on Oskar or the restart team they only add the code they are given, the people who are to blame are those faceless programmers who repeat the same problems time after time do not test the work they do enough to verify its effectivness and remain utterly unaccountable for their performance.  For them I have a simple solution--attach their names to their updates so we can see if there is a pattern one person or one team repeatedly making the same mistakes and if so bring pressure upon LL to improve their performance, since by now it is clear that let to themselves LL has no inclination for quality control. 

At this point anyone other than the most blind linden or linden supporter has to realize that SL is slowly dying and that both older players like myself who have been here approaching six years and new players are both leaving SL in droves.  LL apparently does not seem to care that this is happening and is making no effort to relieve the heavy stress its added programs have put on the already overstressed database and is desperately clinging to the illusion that everything is fine and that this is the best of all possible worlds.  Well I have news for you this place is rapidly falling apart depite the brief intermissions from chaos that we enjoyed for the last two weeks and needs only one false step like apparently happened Wednesday to kick it back over the edge toware Oblivion.  At this point it does not matter what LL or its designated or self designated defenders think or say the reality is overwhelming and if LL does not do something to relieve this porblem it will become much worse.

[Ayesha Askham]

Lydia

I have been watching and reading your posts recently (no, I don't "haunt" these fora, but I do read posts most days, and I still get inworld every day) and I simply don't see the memory leakage or inventory issues you refer to.  Lucky me!

I also pay a monthly rental for a homestead sim, and last year we were hit by the Timewarp bug hard.  Twice.  The important thing to say here is that while it did take Linden lab a long time to find the root cause of Timewarp, they DID find it in the end.

Also, we were moved to a new server in RC LeTigre, and at first I was appalled that such a thing could happen, but in the time since then we have only been hit with one bug and that was cleared up fairly painlessly.  Our stability and performance is now pretty much as good as I could expect and for that I have to praise some of the people who back up the server Team.

HOWEVER:  It is painfully true that a goodly portion of Linden Lab's staff have no interest in the Secondlives of most of us residents, and that is clear when some foolish bugs are promoted to the Grid.

I was told off by The Lab for being too negative in my attitude after I yelled a bit last year, and to be fair my criticism had all the accuracy of a WW1 Bren gun.

There is a systemic malaise in Linden Lab and you are right in saying that a good number of folk quit SL every week.  I don't think Linden Lab is unaware of this, I simply think that they do not see it as being a big issue and for that attitude you must look to their founder, for it is his ethos that is at its root.

This forum is for discussion of sim-server-related issues, and it is just not the place for general complaints about database-server issues (of which there are plenty, last St Valentine's Day being one of the worst and of course the following day's debacle with a login server).  I don't say that SL isn't slowly dying...I just don't say it here!:smileyfrustrated:

[Marigold Devin]

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Sigren Panthar wrote:

Spoken like a true apologist who conveniently forgets just who the customers are, here.  A clue; it isn't LL.

 

As for the OP's remark being grossly offensive?  I think not.

 

As a customer, the OP used their rights to complain about aspects of the service they find unsatisfactory.   

 

Pretending that everything LL do is wonderful is as bad as people who say everything they do is terrible.   The simple fact is LL do somethings very well, and deserve praise when they do so.   Equally, when they mess up their customers have every right to complain.....which is where we run into problems on these forums, heavily patrolled as they are by the same handful of shills who launch virulent attacks on anyone who dares to level any critical question at LL, regardless of any actual merit.

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Call me an apologist if you see me as that. I am as entitled to an opinion as the OP, and her post IS very offensive to those who work very hard behind the scenes.  So many projects are actually discarded because they don't work when tested, and when they do introduce something new, it is always shot down in flames by a whole bunch of people - and then the ones who approve get accused of being psycophants or hangers-on or shills.

But sticks and stones and all that.

As I said before, those who write the code DO care very much whether it works or not.  They have to care. This is their source of income, and anyone who doesn't meet targets or pull their weight soon finds themselves at the back of the unemployment line.  Also there is the matter of personal satisfaction.

People may well be "leaving in droves" - but again, with my rose-tinted spectacles I don't actually see that. I'm a relative newbie, only having been here for little over four years, but in that time I've seen a small number of people leave with a bad taste in their mouth, because they've "invested" a ton of money into Second Life and believe everyone should therefore bow down at their feet and be grateful to them, or even help them to pay for it. I have also seen a lot of people simply move on from Second Life because of real life tugging them away, just like it would have done any other pastime.  And I also see new people arriving in world every single day.  Concurrency figures are no lower, the same number of people are logged in as ever there were when I log in. 

But back to what you say. Yes, as a customer, the OP did use their rights to complain, as every customer has a right to do so, and as a customer, and a fellow member of this forum, I have a right to voice my opinion too.

How would you like it if someone said this about you in your workplace:

"If at this point you find me a bit unhappy with the service we are getting SL you would be right, for there is no excuse for this kind of sloppy testing and programming other than the simple fact those who are writing the code simple do not care and know they are totally unaccountable for their actions. "

They are fully accountable for their actions; enough Linden people have had contracts terminated, and very qualified people have come in to take their place over the years.

 





[Ayesha Askham]

Now I am not aiming these following comments at anyone in particular, but if you feel the cap fits, wear it!

I have been in SL for a little under 4 years, though I was aware of SL for some while prior to actually joining.  I couldn't, since the internet connection I had simply wasn't good enough (the UK is still struggling to leave the 20th century in some ways).

There is a commonly held view that Linden Lab is a service provider.  It isn't, and never intended to be one.  We may use SL as a service (I know I did*) and we feel that as "customers" we are due certain rights to a quality of service.  Linden Lab allow us to use the clever software they have developed, and charge us for certain aspects of that facility.  It is that charge which puts Linden Lab and Secondlife in a very grey area where they are very close to becoming a service provider.  As a result, when that service fails, either partly or, as has happened once or twice, wholly, people feel deprived and "as customers" feel they have a right to complain about poor service.  The problem is that Linden Lab simply don't see it that way.  As to who is right and who is wrong...maybe a court of law could decide, I don't know.

To believe that Linden Lab staff don't care about glitches in software they create or some fairly unpleasant hardware failures that have been ocurring lately is to fail to understand something very fundamental about how Linden Lab functions and I have banged on about this enough.  That some feel empowered to defend them is reasonable, although in some folks' experience such an attitude might be considered sycophantic.

What remains as a cardinal truth is that everyone has a right to their opinion.  What they don't have a right to do is to denigrate others.  Unless there are some posters here who are alter egos of Linden Lab staff no-one really can say if LL staff are lazy, sloppy and uncaring, or hard-working consciencious high-motivated skilled programmers.

In the time I have been aware of Secondlife it has been constantly improved, such that someone who flirted with SL in 2006 would barely recognise the place now.  To say that the ride has not been a bumpy one would be insensitive in the extreme but it has been quite a ride!

There are management issues at Linden Lab that need to be addressed and addressed soon, if that company wishes to continue to exist, but we need to maintain a positive attitude out here and be supportive, not hatchet-wavers, if we are to have any meaningful dialogue with Secondlife's creators.

*To be truthful I still do, really:smileyfrustrated:.

 

Edit Saturday Feb 25th 1am...I do note a huge increase in RAM use if I use "Shadows and Lights" in Firestorm Release...maybe that is what you mean, Lydia..to be honest that use hardly surprises me considering what is being processed.

[Iam Runningbear]

 I have to say after reading a few comments. Things today are not near as smooth as they were when I first started in SL. As I too agree that  many long time members have left SL. Many were personal close friends. Performance  is key. Who wants to play a game they can not use inventory. Or their inventory only loads after 4 or 5 times of relogging and dumping cache. Next  once they have inventory loaded and spending an hour to get it all intact they wonder off to buy something or build and then sim performance goes to crap. Especially on  servers such as Blue Dog ( BlueSteel). This server is pathetic.  You can predict on this server when your gonna crash if you spend enough time on it.

It does seem to me however that more attention is being spent on toys such as the Facebook Twitter spin off. Come on LL. We have that already. Most of us here that are serious players came to SL cause we wanted more than a stupid motionless page. Who in their right friggin mind logs into SL to check their Twitterface account. Hmmmm? I can't wait till you waste valuable resources to get farmville here. Such needless things are a total drain on the system.

Other examples of wasted resources. Bots.... No matter what they do. They are not real in any life. A total drain on resources. Newcomers to SL find a mall or club full of these and soon think they are here by themselves. All alone. How fun is that when you advertise its a 3d world to interact with others and built by others. I know I know. The bots do not produce traffic now.... ok and I have 400 beach Sims too all rented out.

So many times I have seen things that benefited SL taken and removed. Things that actually helped you do your jobs. Like Griefer control.. None existent for the most part. Abuse reports are a waists of time, I personally have reported atleast 8 times a shouting object from the next sim over and that was 2 weeks and it is still spewing repetitive spam. One whole side of my sim is unbearable, try enforcing the TOS. That would improve quality of game play as well.

To much time and resources are being used for crap that is useless. I spend about 6,000 USD a year on SL, in some people cases that is small Potatoes. For me it is huge. I employ a great number of people I own more than 15 different businesses in SL.

Is it to much to ask for you to get back to the basics of what made this game attractive like simple things as inventory loading properly or lag reduction by removing excessive drains on the system such as ALL types of bots. Improving game stability and performance is what we need. Not gimmicks we can find somewhere else that we all didn't like in the first place?

We need performance quality. Quality of game play (enforce TOS) and reduction of resources by things (bots) that we all know serve no purpose other than traffic building regardless of how you try to spin it.

[Iam Runningbear]

Said by Marigold:

People may well be "leaving in droves" - but again, with my rose-tinted spectacles I don't actually see that. I'm a relative newbie, only having been here for little over four years, but in that time I've seen a small number of people leave with a bad taste in their mouth, because they've "invested" a ton of money into Second Life and believe everyone should therefore bow down at their feet and be grateful to them, or even help them to pay for it. I have also seen a lot of people simply move on from Second Life because of real life tugging them away, just like it would have done any other pastime.  And I also see new people arriving in world every single day.  Concurrency figures are no lower, the same number of people are logged in as ever there were when I log in. 

 

 

** Care to guess how many are bots? **

With the dwindling numbers, traffic has to be upheld somewhere by those you claim want people bowing to their feet. And by the way. Do they sell those Rose colored glasses on the Market Place. I think I may need a pair myself.

[Innula Zenovka]

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Iam Runningbear wrote:

 Who wants to play a game they can not use inventory. Or their inventory only loads after 4 or 5 times of relogging and dumping cache. 

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What viewer are you using?  My experience of inventory loading changed pretty much beyond recognition (and for the better) after the newer inventory api was introduced back last March.