Pussycat Catnap Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Marcus Hancroft wrote: I too get tired of hearing "Linden love." Can we come up with something else to say, please? I pretty much -never- tip a host. In fact at get annoyed if a place has one. If I see any gesture spam out of the DJ or venue owner, no tips. If you type "Linden love", you won't get any from me. I bring my own dancing, so I don't see the point in tipping people on dance poles... - And if there are dance poles, I prefer places that let visitors use them, rather than hire some drama queen who gets mad at the DJ / live musician for 'stealing her tips'. Tip priorities: I'll easily tip a live musician / poet / discussion moderator. And if I do, usually the venue as well. These are the sorts most likely to get a tip from me. A DJ that inteeracts is next. And I'll tip the owner of the land place is at if so. - For those two I try to split the tip unless the musician is getting paid, then it -all- goes to the venue. If there are shops, I will try to make a point of looking at them, collecting landmarks to mainstores, and if they have something I like-grabbing it. If I smell a greeter script, you'll not get a dime from me, let alone a single linden, and I'm unlikely to even stay. When I take a class (been a while) I always tried to tip. This is actually what got me to start buying lindens regularly - the desire to tip instructors at NCI and Builder's Brewery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madman626 Fall Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I can't help you if you can't unstand English,,, but then again he prolly can't unstand this post either,,I know my spelling not the best in the world but geez I seen worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Lucinda Bulloch wrote: The lindens changed the prices so they could strip the money and business from people like me and my estate, they dressed it up as other things, next on the list was to strip the malls, they did this by buying Xstreet, before sim owners were getting the commissions from sales and from that they paid for there sims, well now the lindens get all the commission though market place and now malls are dead and all buy though market place with a forced commission given to the lindens. Can't you see what is happening, all the sources of income that we created they have taken over so to strip it of money.The minds behind this see you as cash cows Quite true...Linden Lab can't help themselves by interfering in both the Land & Content economies.....and going into direct competition with it's customers. It's a very bizarre situation....with more and more Resident income sources being choked off! I think with falling concurrency and declining numbers of Estate sims...LL realise their days of milking the cash cow is nearing it's end....hence Rodvik's year-end speech when referring to LL diversifying and developing non-SL related projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Amethyst Jetaime wrote: If people didn't show a bit of support where they can, a lot of those places would not exist. The entire world, with the exception of a very few linden sites, was built by residents, most of whom couldn't have afforded to do that for any length of time without a bit of community support. The Lost Gardens of Apollo and Nemo Trilogy sims being good examples In the end those sims were un-sustainable for those Sim owners. Plenty of residents mourned the loss of those sims....but without contributions (tips), they were hard to keep going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I probably tip a little bit more now than I used to just because I keep seeing more reasons to tip—a couple of years ago it would never have occurred to me tip a sim, for instance. I've always tipped DJ's and entertainers and usually venues. Like a lot of you I'm not really wild about hosts; I have seen some who were a real treat and a great addition but I think they are in a minority. Also like a lot of you if I never again hear anyone telling me to 'show some Linden Love' it will be soon enough. One thing I will add; doesn't really have to do with tips but it's somewhat relevant to the discussion. For those who are reading this and are new to SL: when you're at a club or venue and are in any way part of the local chat, don't be too shy to say "Hi" to new arrivals. Don't worry that people will think you're hitting on them or something. Someone walking into a club or gathering will always feel better if there's some acknowledgement. Don't leave it up to the DJ or the singer or the host. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
161488303349 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Tiffy Vella wrote: One thing, the phrase "show some Linden love" just grates on my teeth and will send me packing, lol. and thx for ur sweet tip if u tip under 100l. and ur soooo awesome and i <3 u forevah if u tip in trip figures. in the public chat. it annoys me intensely when i see a suppose to be host using a robo gesture spammer and giving mostly new ppl and new patrons the sweet treatment like that in the public chat. patronising cows. can stick their club as far as i am concerned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayalily Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 kinda Fallen wrote: As of late clubs used to encourage ppl to come in for traffic to help rent out mall space, with the downfall of malls due to the convenience of the Market Place...should clubs and venues start charging for entertainment or still ask (grovel, plead and beg) for tips as usual in the past? How do ppl feel about entertainment in SL, is it or should it be considered free like television? Has anyone else noticed the decline in tipping as of late? (could be the economy, or so many alts in SL, the expense to clothe and house them takes precedence over tipping) I know most will tip if the entertainment is good, and they are enjoying themselves, but it seems to me its becoming an issue in alot of places now. Just some random thoughts about SL as an entertainment outlet ..let me hear from you guys ! I used to tip, but after several months, SL gets to be like the radio, only radio is far, far better. There are only a few good live singers in SL and only a few good Dj's worth tipping. Most Dj's are playing crap, and I will not tip for that. I think it would be better to have a really good internet radio station playing and let people tip the venue, or for clubs to try to get a sponser, but getting serious sponsers could only happen IF SL went age verified only as adult sponsor's would not be interested in sponsoring clubs with adults and teens in them. The Moderate rating is a joke as it's practically the same as adult and I've seen complete nudity in Moderate rated sims. SL keeps the M rating because people want anominity and adult, which does not work too well, especially if you want sponsors. When the entertainment is worth it, I tip. As far as a cover charge, yes I would consider it BUT ONLY IF given a song list of what will be played beforehand in a notecard. However, griefers could ruin that by requesting crappy songs, and then what? Would we get a refund? In some ways, I might be more inclined to tip if a notecard was sent out with the play list. If the playlist was horrible for my taste, I simply would not go to that event. If the playlist was great, I'd go in a heartbeat and pay a cover charge, depending on what the price of that cover charge is. In all honesty, there are very few clubs with great music... took me three hours yesterday to hear one good song on SL, and that song was "Little Wing" by Jimi Hendrix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meredith Francis Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I love that song! I rarely go to live music, I turn off all radio and don't go to dj events at all. I find music pretty distracting on SL mostly... If I am doing something alone on SL I will put on my owwn music here at home. I love SL to socialize and interact with other ava's. Sometimes we feel at a loss that there is nothing but sex, clubs and shopping. Role play sims have some life often if your up for them. I think cover charges are not a good idea.. basically as it would give people a right of complaint.. and there are to many freaks on SL who will gladly pay 100 Lindens to have days of ultra cheap entertainment playing Linden Lawyer. I still tip as always, but there's a slip in life essence in SL over the past few years... I wonder is it SL slowly stuffing up or is it us burning out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Mayalily wrote: kinda Fallen wrote: As of late clubs used to encourage ppl to come in for traffic to help rent out mall space, with the downfall of malls due to the convenience of the Market Place...should clubs and venues start charging for entertainment or still ask (grovel, plead and beg) for tips as usual in the past? How do ppl feel about entertainment in SL, is it or should it be considered free like television? Has anyone else noticed the decline in tipping as of late? (could be the economy, or so many alts in SL, the expense to clothe and house them takes precedence over tipping) I know most will tip if the entertainment is good, and they are enjoying themselves, but it seems to me its becoming an issue in alot of places now. Just some random thoughts about SL as an entertainment outlet ..let me hear from you guys ! I used to tip, but after several months, SL gets to be like the radio, only radio is far, far better. There are only a few good live singers in SL and only a few good Dj's worth tipping. Most Dj's are playing crap, and I will not tip for that. I think it would be better to have a really good internet radio station playing and let people tip the venue, or for clubs to try to get a sponser, but getting serious sponsers could only happen IF SL went age verified only as adult sponsor's would not be interested in sponsoring clubs with adults and teens in them. The Moderate rating is a joke as it's practically the same as adult and I've seen complete nudity in Moderate rated sims. SL keeps the M rating because people want anominity and adult, which does not work too well, especially if you want sponsors. When the entertainment is worth it, I tip. As far as a cover charge, yes I would consider it BUT ONLY IF given a song list of what will be played beforehand in a notecard. However, griefers could ruin that by requesting crappy songs, and then what? Would we get a refund? In some ways, I might be more inclined to tip if a notecard was sent out with the play list. If the playlist was horrible for my taste, I simply would not go to that event. If the playlist was great, I'd go in a heartbeat and pay a cover charge, depending on what the price of that cover charge is. In all honesty, there are very few clubs with great music... took me three hours yesterday to hear one good song on SL, and that song was "Little Wing" by Jimi Hendrix. Ideally it would be great if most clubs had live musc, but live music costs the owner thousands per hour. So, DJ's are in demand in SL. Show me a club that only has a radio station playing and I'll show you an empty club that will die a quick death. I would never go to a club that only plays a radio station. I can stay home and do that. A good DJ doesn't use a play list. A good DJ monitors the mood of the crowd and what things people are talking about in public chat and chooses the songs to play in response. They also take requests and work them into what is being played in a way that segues the song in so there is no jarringly abrupt change. I don't understand what you mean by a griefer. Just because someone requests a song you don't like doesn't make them a griefer. I'm sure you like songs that others don't like and don't want to hear, does that make you one? DJ's have a right to refuse to play songs out of format. Meaning if the club is a jazz club and someone requests heavy metal rock the DJ will or should tell them no. So how can someone grief by making a song request? Maybe you don't like hosts because they aren't do their job properly. A good host does more than hit a button on an auto greeter and play a gesture once in a while. If that's all they are doing, then they don't deserve to be tipped. Maybe you feel hosts are not needed. However a DJ cannot do everything a DJ does and be responsible for greeting everyone and answering questions etc. and stimulate room chat while they are choosing music and dealing with technical issues you probably aren't aware of. Some DJ run two computers, one for streaming and the other to be able to view SL. The reason for this is so if the computer running SL crashes, the music doesn't end or if the computer they stream from crashes, they can instantly switch to the other computer to continue to stream. I know one that runs three, the third being the backup in case one or bot of the other two fail and this does happen. But this means that they can't always see everyone the instant they walk into a club or respond instantly to room chat or a question. DJ's rely so heavily on hosts that many have one they work well with that teams with them hosting only for them and travels to various clubs where the DJ streams. Hosts field a lot of IM's from people that you probably aren't aware of. Its not uncommon for a host to be in multiple IM's from patrons answering specific questions as well as having to greet people and stimulate room conversation and answer other questions posed in public chat at the same time. Patrons won't do this. While some will say hi to new arrivals you can't rely on that and people are insulted if they are not acknowledged when they arrive. Other patrons can't be relied on to answer questions either such as where to find the dance ball or even teach a newb how to use one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Meredith Francis wrote: I think cover charges are not a good idea.. basically as it would give people a right of complaint.. and there are to many freaks on SL who will gladly pay 100 Lindens to have days of ultra cheap entertainment playing Linden Lawyer. You don't think people who get in free and don't even tip now don't complain? Obviously you've never owned a club. A club would make money if an owner got paid everytime someone came to them with a silly or unrealistic complaint. This doesn't mean that some complaints are not valid and should be listened to seriously, but the overwhelming majority of complaints have to do with things an owner can't control or that are just petty. And while its true, that if you charge a cover you may get some Linden Lawyers, they are easy enough to eject ban and mute. That doesn't mean that people don't have a right to complain if you charge a cover then don't deliver what a reasonable person should expect. Places that charge a cover in RL deal with complaints all the time and resolve them and there is no reason why it can't be done in SL too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 another good reason for tipping being less now could be that lindens cost more and so does tier and everything else.. while in good times one hand washes the other..while in bad times one hand grabs from the other..leaving less to give for those luxuries we used to be able to splurge on.. lindens were like 2.50+ or or so per $L1,000 back when tipping was good..maybe a little more..what are they now? $4.33 per $L1,000 on the buy button.. things cost more in here..land tier is more and things are not so hot in the outside world either..people tend to tighten up unless they are not affected by the economy in here and out there.. i used to walk into any club when i was dancing and drop 2k on the dj the host and dancers back when the economy was good just because i felt it was a good practice for us dancers to flaunt a little when entering the competitions zone..a sign that we were there to have fun and not there to scalp lol that's why i did it anyways.. lol but as things got a bit more expensive..i tended to slow down on even going..that and really it was getting hard to find good clubs after the economy started to become a drag.. i still think with a good enough plan that a sim could do good in here..but the owner would have to have enough time on their hands to keep it very in touch with this world and it's constant changing..trying to keep those changes something that added to the experience rather than taking away.. i don't think anyone is going to be able to sit on just one plan and it last forever..keep the core and change the dressing now and then..and expand when you can and deflate when you have to before it becomes a now or never choice.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayalily Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Amethyst Jetaime wrote: Mayalily wrote: kinda Fallen wrote: As of late clubs used to encourage ppl to come in for traffic to help rent out mall space, with the downfall of malls due to the convenience of the Market Place...should clubs and venues start charging for entertainment or still ask (grovel, plead and beg) for tips as usual in the past? How do ppl feel about entertainment in SL, is it or should it be considered free like television? Has anyone else noticed the decline in tipping as of late? (could be the economy, or so many alts in SL, the expense to clothe and house them takes precedence over tipping) I know most will tip if the entertainment is good, and they are enjoying themselves, but it seems to me its becoming an issue in alot of places now. Just some random thoughts about SL as an entertainment outlet ..let me hear from you guys ! I used to tip, but after several months, SL gets to be like the radio, only radio is far, far better. There are only a few good live singers in SL and only a few good Dj's worth tipping. Most Dj's are playing crap, and I will not tip for that. I think it would be better to have a really good internet radio station playing and let people tip the venue, or for clubs to try to get a sponser, but getting serious sponsers could only happen IF SL went age verified only as adult sponsor's would not be interested in sponsoring clubs with adults and teens in them. The Moderate rating is a joke as it's practically the same as adult and I've seen complete nudity in Moderate rated sims. SL keeps the M rating because people want anominity and adult, which does not work too well, especially if you want sponsors. When the entertainment is worth it, I tip. As far as a cover charge, yes I would consider it BUT ONLY IF given a song list of what will be played beforehand in a notecard. However, griefers could ruin that by requesting crappy songs, and then what? Would we get a refund? In some ways, I might be more inclined to tip if a notecard was sent out with the play list. If the playlist was horrible for my taste, I simply would not go to that event. If the playlist was great, I'd go in a heartbeat and pay a cover charge, depending on what the price of that cover charge is. In all honesty, there are very few clubs with great music... took me three hours yesterday to hear one good song on SL, and that song was "Little Wing" by Jimi Hendrix. Ideally it would be great if most clubs had live musc, but live music costs the owner thousands per hour. So, DJ's are in demand in SL. Show me a club that only has a radio station playing and I'll show you an empty club that will die a quick death. I would never go to a club that only plays a radio station. I can stay home and do that. A good DJ doesn't use a play list. A good DJ monitors the mood of the crowd and what things people are talking about in public chat and chooses the songs to play in response. They also take requests and work them into what is being played in a way that segues the song in so there is no jarringly abrupt change. I don't understand what you mean by a griefer. Just because someone requests a song you don't like doesn't make them a griefer. I'm sure you like songs that others don't like and don't want to hear, does that make you one? DJ's have a right to refuse to play songs out of format. Meaning if the club is a jazz club and someone requests heavy metal rock the DJ will or should tell them no. So how can someone grief by making a song request? Maybe you don't like hosts because they aren't do their job properly. A good host does more than hit a button on an auto greeter and play a gesture once in a while. If that's all they are doing, then they don't deserve to be tipped. Maybe you feel hosts are not needed. However a DJ cannot do everything a DJ does and be responsible for greeting everyone and answering questions etc. and stimulate room chat while they are choosing music and dealing with technical issues you probably aren't aware of. Some DJ run two computers, one for streaming and the other to be able to view SL. The reason for this is so if the computer running SL crashes, the music doesn't end or if the computer they stream from crashes, they can instantly switch to the other computer to continue to stream. I know one that runs three, the third being the backup in case one or bot of the other two fail and this does happen. But this means that they can't always see everyone the instant they walk into a club or respond instantly to room chat or a question. DJ's rely so heavily on hosts that many have one they work well with that teams with them hosting only for them and travels to various clubs where the DJ streams. Hosts field a lot of IM's from people that you probably aren't aware of. Its not uncommon for a host to be in multiple IM's from patrons answering specific questions as well as having to greet people and stimulate room conversation and answer other questions posed in public chat at the same time. Patrons won't do this. While some will say hi to new arrivals you can't rely on that and people are insulted if they are not acknowledged when they arrive. Other patrons can't be relied on to answer questions either such as where to find the dance ball or even teach a newb how to use one. Yes, I know clubs are empty or almost empty with no Dj. I've seen that also, even though the empty clubs without a Dj are playing a better stream from a professional internet radio station, and the music is simply superior because that playlist is done by professionals, but I dance in those empty clubs some times just to escape the bad music they were playing the day before or the day before. Sorry my griefing point was unclear. I meant IF there were a cover charge for a specific playlist event that people want to attend, but then griefers show up and request a bunch of crap songs like "Disco Duck" or let's say it's a greatest guitar riffs song event and then people show up and request rap or trance (both of which I cannot stand, and both of which do not have any great guitar riffs). So, the point that was unclear is that if it is a cover charge event with a playlist, then no requests should be allowed, because people came to hear the playlist that was given to them in a notecard about the event, and that is why they paid the cover charge. Why people actually need Dj's is odd to me. I notice people pointing their avatar towards a stage with a Dj. Why? The Dj is just streaming music, not entertaining where you need to have your avatar look at the stage. SL's music cannot compare to some of these extraordinary internet and TV radio stations I have access to now. TV radio is getting really exceptional for some stations, and I don't know how SL can compete with the incredible TV radio stations we have available to use now. I think SL entertainment in regards to Dj's would and could compete with the exceptional TV music channels IF SL and individual sim owners had access to sponsorship from product companies. If think total and complete lack of sponsorship is where SL fails. I said this when I first came here and I'll say it again, I think SL should spin off into something called Music Life for music nerds. In this Music Life idea I have is for LL to charge a far lower fee than Itunes to download a song. I think Itunes is way over-priced in this economy. However, with the way clubs run now, if the music is 50 to 80% awful, why should I pay? I know SL has a high turn-over rate and just when you find a Dj you like, they're gone in a short time span. Also, there was this one club listed as rock, but several of the Dj's sets are country every single day. They should just become a country music club already. What might be better than Dj and host/hostess jobs, is to create an event planner where song lists are sent out in a notecard or posted on a board in a club. I also do not attend contests as too many people friend each other just to vote for each other and split it. A real genuine scripted object that gives out a raffle number, SL seriously needs something like that. A raffle from an object, not a person vote. Also, the music isn't much better at contests, it's the same old bad recycled playlists. It is extremely hard to be a professional Dj. You have to know your audience and you need to keep your audience. And, why should I pay if I have to result to turning the sound down or off it's that bad, or I have to result in just turning my own music on at home? More event planning IS needed, or some groups and clubs for music nerds is desperately needed. LL should have spun off into something called Music Life and created a system to download music much, much cheaper than Itunes for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maitimo Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 However, I submit that if chipping in the equivalent of a RL dollar every once in a while to the venue or entertainer of your choice would take food from your kids mouths or make you unable to pay your bills, you shouldn't be here at all. You should be working in RL. Wait a second. I work full time in RL, despite being physically disabled, and I earn as much as I am able. I don't have kids, I don't struggle to pay rent or feed myself and I have enough money spare for a decent computer, a broadband package and other entertainment of which SL is a small part of that budget. But if I visit SL every night, and visit two clubs per night, and tip half a dollar to each host and DJ and maybe 2 dancers as well per event, that adds up to a lot of money that I'd actually rather spend in a real life club with real life friends, drinking real life beer. Thanks for judging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meredith Francis Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Amethyst Jetaime wrote: Meredith Francis wrote: I think cover charges are not a good idea.. basically as it would give people a right of complaint.. and there are to many freaks on SL who will gladly pay 100 Lindens to have days of ultra cheap entertainment playing Linden Lawyer. You don't think people who get in free and don't even tip now don't complain? Obviously you've never owned a club. A club would make money if an owner got paid everytime someone came to them with a silly or unrealistic complaint. This doesn't mean that some complaints are not valid and should be listened to seriously, but the overwhelming majority of complaints have to do with things an owner can't control or that are just petty. And while its true, that if you charge a cover you may get some Linden Lawyers, they are easy enough to eject ban and mute. That doesn't mean that people don't have a right to complain if you charge a cover then don't deliver what a reasonable person should expect. Places that charge a cover in RL deal with complaints all the time and resolve them and there is no reason why it can't be done in SL too. lol, yes well that's all very normal in SL and yet my point still stands. Also wonder about the feeling everyone mentions of SL not being as good anymore... if it is SL or a symptom of long time users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Matty Luminos wrote: However, I submit that if chipping in the equivalent of a RL dollar every once in a while to the venue or entertainer of your choice would take food from your kids mouths or make you unable to pay your bills, you shouldn't be here at all. You should be working in RL. Wait a second. I work full time in RL, despite being physically disabled, and I earn as much as I am able. I don't have kids, I don't struggle to pay rent or feed myself and I have enough money spare for a decent computer, a broadband package and other entertainment of which SL is a small part of that budget. But if I visit SL every night, and visit two clubs per night, and tip half a dollar to each host and DJ and maybe 2 dancers as well per event, that adds up to a lot of money that I'd actually rather spend in a real life club with real life friends, drinking real life beer. Thanks for judging. I wasn't judging your situation, as i plainly stated that I was responding to a poster who claimed he or others didn't tip because it would mean kids would go with out food and bills couldn't be paid. If you would ather spend you money in a real life club with real life friends, drinking real life beer that's your choice and I have nothing against it. But don't expect clubs to continue to provide quality entertainment to you for free as no club or bar in RL does that. People lament that there aren't as many good clubs in SL anymore. Lack of support is why good clubs are closing right and left. If SL entertainment is something you enjoy than you should chip in once in a while. If your not willing to then don't go. Hang out with your friends on your land that you pay for or public linden land and have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Meredith Francis wrote: Also wonder about the feeling everyone mentions of SL not being as good anymore... if it is SL or a symptom of long time users. I've been in SL for almost six years and have friends still very active here that have been her longer than that and we all still have fun and like SL. We all have interests in SL that go beyond shopping & clubbing, mostly being creative in some way or participating and trying new things. SL is what you make it. If all you do is club and shop and chat with friends it may well be that it gets boring after a while, it depends on the person. However I do agree that there has been a decline in quality clubs and I know the reason for it is that they aren't support like they used to be. In the earlier days venue owners actually were paid by LL based on the traffic they had. These payments were called "dwell payments" People also tipped better than they do now and a club with good traffice had a full mall and high traffic clubs had a long waiting list of people wanting to rent shops. LL no longer pays dwell, in fact they are doing the opposite by raising tiers. Everything is more expensive. Few store owners can afford to rent sattelite shops at clubs because of higher expenses and lower sales due to the RL economy. So a club owner can't rely on mall rentals. With rare exception club owners have to pay a lot of RL money out of their own pocket to keep a club going. Even those that don't are barely breaking even. The point I'm trying to make is that realistically quality will continue to decline soley due to financial reasons unless patrons are willing to chip in and support a venue sufficiently or the whole business model is changed. The only way to change it is to either charge a cover charge or by LL lowering their tiers to a more affordable level and paying dwell again; neither of which is going to happen unless they make everyone pay to use SL or substantially raise premium membership cost. I can hear the screaming now :smileytongue: so please understand i am not endorsing this I'm only stating the alternatives. If anyone has a better idea that would work I'd love them to tell us what it is and lots of venue owners would too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 ya clubs close for so many reasons anyways besides money problems.. money problems is just a good reason to close one lol hey when that drama gets so thick that you can't close the office door without someone popping up from behind the couch to give you some more..a money problem is a good clean way to say i'm outta here hehehe they are money pits if you don't have the money to run them..they are vacant a lot of the time if you don't have some sort of following or dishing out money for staff that will come and go.. and they are time consuming.. there is nothing like a kabillion IM's the second you log on that have you frozen to the floor for hours and hours while more are pouring in.. griefers and internal squabbling about how someone is pissing off someone else so what are you gonna do about it or half of the staff will leave with either one of them in the fight.. ya add lack of funds and it starts to sound like a good idea to close the thing after awhile LOL although that one is still opened..but i remember being HM at the old one i worked at.. all this was just the tip of the iceberg of jobs i had for a club that is still making it nowadays.. we had a full staff of 12 djs..250+ dancers(omg that alone was drama soup lol) about 6 managers(more drama and conflict of constant clash of titans on opinions) a CEO(always trying to run the club rather than leaving the head manager alone lol) a CFO(lets just say i heard some stuff lol) or whatever the one is that are in charge of budget and things.. then a full staff of security and finally the owner ..then on top of all that we had all the land staff for the 20 some odd rental sims tied to it that had residents coming to the club thinking they were the vip's of the vips thinking they would never get kicked and could give anyone crap because they paid rent for a bungelo hehehehe then still you have to make sure all this drama stays underground so it does not hit the main area of the club where the customers are..you don't want them getting involved..so drama control is about half the job..keeping the customers happy is another good part of it and then you have your regular duties..and at the end of the week i got to write up my weekly report of how the week went LOL that was one heck of a busy place to work at..the other clubs where i managed..those guys couldn't handle it because they were mostly just new to sl and thinking ..oh a club..well this shouldn't be too hard..i go clubbing in real life all the time LOL those are the guys that about after a few months bail with money problems being a good excuse to get out of the drama zone lol..that or they actually don't have the funds..this was even when the money was good.. i bet it's much easier to close one nowadays .. now i remember why i look for things that are relaxing in sl nowadays..because of the workaholic first few years LOL a successful club is something that takes more than money that's for sure..the money that they do get is just to take the edge off the tier.. we made a profit quite a few times but it was never really anything that was that high over tier..not anything someone would make a living at thats for sure.. smaller places..i don't think they would really need all this stuff..but if people are looking to make the greatest club in sl like most of them advertise..well that's what it took to work at the one that back in 2006 and 07 when we had a pop list.. if you love your sl ..just open a nice Irish pub or micro brewery..those are nice calm places..hehehehe kidding.. i really loved my job back then..it was fun being good at it hehehe a lot of this is just having some giggles with how much there was to do..but really the place was an awsome place to work at and was always a good challenge to see it improve ..the reason i don't work at clubs anymore is because i can't find another like it anywhere hehehe my old club all they have there now is a staff of dj's some security and some managers..a really nice build and a good following with some of the coolest looking avatars in sl there.. they got rid of the dancers and a lot of the drama went out the window hehehehe it's probably why it's still around today hehehehe plus i think the owner is into Tia chi which helps lol kidding again ok my babbling is over..we now return you to your regularly scheduled thread hehehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Personally I don't like DJ"s who have only a static playlist and don't take requests at all and most people don't. Most people like DJ's that are flexible to the mood of a room and choose music accordingly. Thats why they go to the clubs with live DJ's and why clubs that play a radio are dead. So providing a specific guaranteed play list in advance if you charged a cover charge or even under the present system wouldn't work anymore than playing a radio. However if a cover is charged it should be made clear what the format (genre) of music will be or it should be stated clearly that it a mix. I do think and most people agree that a DJ should stick to the advertised format and shouldn't play requests outside of it. If I go to a heavy metal club and the DJ plays Britney Spears, even if it is a request, I'm out of there. My entire point is that if you are entertained you should tip or expect to pay some other way if you expect quality entertainment in SL to continue. I don't advocate tipping any entertainer that doesn't entertain you. But if you stay and turn your own music on you are benefiting from the club's venue even if the only thing your enjoy is that the club brought people together to socialize with or you enjoy the scenery and you should tip the club once in a while. I wish there were more RL professional club DJ's in SL, but professionals are paid RL money and SL DJ's aren't. So there is no incentive for a professional to work here. There are a rare few in SL willing to work for their tiers, but if they don't make enough in tips they won't work. One last point is about RL companies footing the bill through sponsorship. This has been tried and has always failed miserably in SL. Experience and marketing study after study has shown that a huge majority of people don't want RL companies advertising to them in SL or even want to go someplace and see RL company logos. In fact they will go out of their way to avoid it. People come to SL to escape RL and live they way they choose and the last thing they want to be reminded of when they go to clubs is RL. Maybe this may change in the future if patrons have to foot more of the cost of entertainment. However, it will be very hard if not impossible to overcome RL companies not being interested in sponsoring things in SL due to the past track record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Boy did you hit the nail on the head. I've owned two large clubs in SL with huge staffs that were very popular and stayed at the top without gaming traffic by using any campers or bots or anything other than actual people driven avatars coming because they want to. If I ever own a club again please just shoot me, as it would be a lot less hassle and expense. :smileyvery-happy: I know clubs close for a lot of reasons especially drama of one sort or the other. However if you have to deal with all the crap then have to turn around and put in $100 week plus pay tier because you don't get enough patron support your more likely to close it, where as if you are supported by the patrons it makes it a lot easier to deal with the other stuff and continue because of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Amethyst Jetaime wrote: Boy did you hit the nail on the head. I've owned two large clubs in SL with huge staffs that were very popular and stayed at the top without gaming traffic by using any campers or bots or anything other than actual people driven avatars coming because they want to. If I ever own a club again please just shoot me, as it would be a lot less hassle and expense. :smileyvery-happy: I know clubs close for a lot of reasons especially drama of one sort or the other. However if you have to deal with all the crap then have to turn around and put in $100 week plus pay tier because you don't get enough patron support your more likely to close it, where as if you are supported by the patrons it makes it a lot easier to deal with the other stuff and continue because of them. ya that's the really important thing..you have to love to make people happy..a lot of clubs are missing that important element..it's what really gets you through the stressful times.. in a good strong club..the last thing on anyone's mind is it ever closing..the owner would never have pt up with any of it if he didn't love that club and making the patrons happy..he built a whole industry around the clubs name...they are into everything now and a lot of those patrons support just about anything with the logo on it..they are into fashion and all kinds of things..they have a whole industrial park there now which is a beautiful walk through as well.. i talk to him every once in awhile ..we will get in IM's and he is still the same..loves what he is doing and loves that club and those people going to it..he keeps working on things to make it better.. since it has opened ..it has always been right there at the top of the page.. that just amazes me..because it's been such a long time since it opened and it really hasn't skipped a beat hehehe i wish more places were like it on the grid..a lot more..sl would really kick butt again.. if you don't mind me asking..what clubs were yours..i may have been in them..mine where i worked was GOL or ELEMENTS as some call it..GOL ELEMENTS to a lot of others..you can just IM me if you don't want to say in here or not if you don't want to at all..i understand that stuff hehehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayalily Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Amethyst Jetaime wrote: Personally I don't like DJ"s who have only a static playlist and don't take requests at all and most people don't. Most people like DJ's that are flexible to the mood of a room and choose music accordingly. Thats why they go to the clubs with live DJ's and why clubs that play a radio are dead. So providing a specific guaranteed play list in advance if you charged a cover charge or even under the present system wouldn't work anymore than playing a radio. However if a cover is charged it should be made clear what the format (genre) of music will be or it should be stated clearly that it a mix. I do think and most people agree that a DJ should stick to the advertised format and shouldn't play requests outside of it. If I go to a heavy metal club and the DJ plays Britney Spears, even if it is a request, I'm out of there. My entire point is that if you are entertained you should tip or expect to pay some other way if you expect quality entertainment in SL to continue. I don't advocate tipping any entertainer that doesn't entertain you. But if you stay and turn your own music on you are benefiting from the club's venue even if the only thing your enjoy is that the club brought people together to socialize with or you enjoy the scenery and you should tip the club once in a while. I wish there were more RL professional club DJ's in SL, but professionals are paid RL money and SL DJ's aren't. So there is no incentive for a professional to work here. There are a rare few in SL willing to work for their tiers, but if they don't make enough in tips they won't work. One last point is about RL companies footing the bill through sponsorship. This has been tried and has always failed miserably in SL. Experience and marketing study after study has shown that a huge majority of people don't want RL companies advertising to them in SL or even want to go someplace and see RL company logos. In fact they will go out of their way to avoid it. People come to SL to escape RL and live they way they choose and the last thing they want to be reminded of when they go to clubs is RL. Maybe this may change in the future if patrons have to foot more of the cost of entertainment. However, it will be very hard if not impossible to overcome RL companies not being interested in sponsoring things in SL due to the past track record. Well, see I'm looking for something in music beyond just a genre. I'm looking for something with some thought to it that would be interesting. For example, you don't need to be a professional to look up the top 40 songs of a particular year. For example, some interesting ideas could be the best of the British invasion; or take any year, say June 1987 and play the top 40 hits of that year, then do July 1972, and so forth. Something interesting, something different, and something other than just a vague "genre". There are lots of websites, magazines, TV stations to get ideas for a themed music event (not themed clothing event), such as VH1 Classic (lots of voted polls there for best this or that), Rolling Stone magazine (lots of insight into great music of the past with votes including best guitarists of all time, etc, etc). I am so desperate for some good music in SL, I almost was going to post something in the Wanted section a few weeks ago. Wanted themed MUSIC event, not themed clothing event. lol As to one of your posts above about sponsors and it bringing in to much rl, well there are clubs that are already giving away free sponsorship whether a beer company or Coca-cola. Many clubs are just giving away advertising; however, the free adverts do not bother me. Also, rl is full of sponsors, just watch any sporting event or go to any concert or watch a movie, there are tons of sponsors there, some hidden and some on billboards (especially sporting and concert events). It's part of life and it's also how the business world operates or ticket prices would be way more expensive than they are now. Also, I would not mind a way for SL to allow paying for downloading songs legally, which would then belong (more or less) to that club, and then the patrons could pay a small price to make that song play, that way the money goes to support the club. It's just an idea as you did ask for some ideas in your other post as well. I don't want to get into a discussion about SOPA though because I don't think it will pass in it's current form and not in an election year. But, does that mean LL should just keep shoving the problem of illegal downloading under the rug? I'd say not necessarily since this is their business and a business which consists of a lot of free entertainment as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Mayalily wrote: Also, I would not mind a way for SL to allow paying for downloading songs legally, which would then belong (more or less) to that club, and then the patrons could pay a small price to make that song play, that way the money goes to support the club. It's just an idea as you did ask for some ideas in your other post as well. I don't want to get into a discussion about SOPA though because I don't think it will pass in it's current form and not in an election year. But, does that mean LL should just keep shoving the problem of illegal downloading under the rug? I'd say not necessarily since this is their business and a business which consists of a lot of free entertainment as it is. Don't assume SL Clubs/Dj's are all streaming music illegally. Many have a license to legally stream music from the service called BMI. They have llcenses available at different prices for everything from full fledged radio stations to someone who streams to just the few people in a SL club. Basically you pay an annual fee and then can legally stream any music you have on your computer. BMI represents the interests of just about every holder of a music copyright. The feature your asking for would require a special media player built into SL that a club owner could control on their land and restrict the available songs to a theme or genre as well as a way to charge people that request a song and somehow split the fee between LL and the clubowner. It would also require pretty massive server to store all the downloaded songs. LL would certainly charge a nice fee for this service as well as per song because they would almost certainly be required to have a radio license or pay a royalty per song played, so I doubt that this would earn any money for clubs but just be another expense. It would probably cost a lot more than the current BMI license would. Not only would clubs have to pay even more to LL but if they relied on it for music in their club they'd have to pay for each song played themselves if nobody else does. Its an interesting idea though if it could be technically be done and the expense wasn't prohibitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madman626 Fall Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Nope don't never pay for a show in RL,, why don't go to them same has a ball game but I do go to a casino and there shows are free,,,and who said I did`t work hmm ? You seem a lil rude there on that part but I say this to you,, you show me a venue or a entertainer that worth tipping then I just might tip them but they have to be really good,, but I yet to see anything in sl worth tipping for . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinda Fallen Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Well everyone what a great discussion, thanks for all of the input, i have learned a lot from all of you. My partner and i are in the entertainment business in SL, which range from tribute bands to comedy shows. I build the stages, my partner programs the light shows, or we both run the lights while running the animations of our little actors on the stage. We have some high overhead, like the instruments, building supplies, textures, bringing in the custom textures i make in photo shop etc. We buy all of our music and shows legally, so nothing we have is bootlegged. Not to mention the hours of time to build, program, produce the show cuts, and make the avatars look as much like the real person as possible. Its been a struggle the last year to make ends meet, and we have been contemplating giving it up. Its something we truly enjoy, and our following does as well, we can hardly rez in before someone asks if there is a show tonight. Theres nights we do well, some places the tips are so bad, I have had venue owners apologize. But over all we have noticed the decline, and have begun to wonder, if our little hobby will start costing us money, in addition to all of the other costs of SL, and I think we all know how spendy that can be. So your thoughts here have been very helpful, and god I promise on my Mother's head never to say "Linden Love" again..LOL, so thank you everyone that contributed, its helped us look to what we need to do and how to go about it. Cheers here is hoping SL stays fun for everyone even more so this year ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 i have to say that sounds like it would be a neat show to see.. i hope things do get better to where you can keep doing what you love to do in here =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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