R0xx Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Just an observation. I am a system admin in RL and manage user accounts / groups in active directory( Windows) and Linux.When I remove users from groups, the OS does not "disband" a group if its empty. That would be a real pain in the arse.I'm tring to understand the logic here in SL. Why do you need 2 users to form a group? I can create an empty group and add as many or as little amount of users as I want at the OS level. Im looking at "Group" from the OS side.I get people that tell me here in SL that you need at least 2 people to be considered as a group. Thats not true in the IT world.Im sure here in SL when you create a group..its done at the OS level and you add users to your group which sets the group permissions and access.So why is a group automatically removed that is determined by a certain amount of users? A group is a group...no matter how many users access it...I own the group. All groups have owners assigned to them. If I spend $100L to create a group in SL, then I should have full access to control how many users I give access to that group.So the people that say you need 2 users are not looking at it from an IT perspective but a "People" perspecitve. I say the 2 user minimum for a SL group is a bunch of BS. You pay for a group.... you should have full access and control without silly minimum user stipulations. Also, if you have 2 users and one user leaves the group, god forbid you have land ..kiss it goodbye. . The point my message here is If I own a group..then I expect unrestricted use of that group. I think LL is trying to apply RL people groups to equate to an OS group.....I can see a maximum number of users..but minimum? Thats BS :) So please dont respond with a "People" point of view. R0xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knowl Paine Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I would guess the reason is that LL as company gets all politically corrrect on terminology and by definition, a Group cannot be one. Creating an alt is a work around for Residents, but I think another reason is for LL to have dual registration on an account for verification. Imho, the fee for the Group, barely pays for the abilities offered. What is a "people" point of view? If the "people" don't like it; they can form their own Group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Starship Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 That is how they designed it. Look at it from a user that agree to a TOSS when you came in the door and not from a tech side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R0xx Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 "I would guess the reason is that LL as company gets all politically corrrect on terminology and by definition, a Group cannot be one." That's the "People" definition of a group not an IT definition. The operating system does not care how many "people" are in a group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 two people don't have to be in the group..one user with two accounts can keep the group alive.. worried about someone leaving just add an alt *winks* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R0xx Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 I know how to play the system....I pay for a "Group" ...I should be able to determine how many accounts have access to it. You have to look at it from the OS side. Im sure they added a script to monitor the number of accounts that have a partiucular group access and to remove the group if the total mumber of users is less than 2. Why? If I did that in RL, and started removing the directory/folder structures...there would be hell to pay lol oO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charolotte Caxton Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 It seems that groups cannot be deleted as long as there are 2 members. Perhaps this is so one day if the group owner wakes up in a bad mood he doesn't just destroy the group everyone belongs to. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Group There is a brief mention here (scroll down to Groups) that groups with only one person are disbanded, unless they own land, but I couldn't find any more specifics about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claireschen Hesten Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 R0xx wrote: Also, if you have 2 users and one user leaves the group, god forbid you have land ..kiss it goodbye. this is exactly the reason why many group owners with a group owned land interest have an alt account in the group to keep up the 2 person minimum should everyone else quit. in the realms of SL i can't think of any reason where you'd only want one or no people in a group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rage Hyx Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Disband a group You can not directly delete a group, but in case you ensure that the membercount of the group remains smaller than 2 for a timeframe of 48 hours, the group will be disbanded. You can ensure that by ejecting all current members of the group and setting the group to a closed group (so no new members join). Once your group is disbanded, there is no way to get it back] and the name can't be taken again. OK so I can wake up in a bad mood ...eject all users and close the group. Im sure if land is involved it complicates things...but you dont have to involve land to have a group. Im looking at a basic group here. I create a group...I determine how may users I want to add ..when I want to add them...not some 2 day rule. I can think of only one reason ..LL wants to save resources and have determined that less than 2 users in a group is a waste of UID/GID resources..so they remove them. But I'm guessing that the # of User IDs and Group IDs are a maximum of 65535 in Linux. Im sure they have a farm of servers..I read in an article Second Life had at the time - 31,250 simulators and several sims run per server, plus there are a number of inventory servers, asset servers and utility servers. 0o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwalyphi Korpov Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 The resident who provided the previous content, if any, has replaced it with this generic statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rage Hyx Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 LOL....Dam end users have to mess everything up You win the prize for the best answer that makes no logical sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Rage Hyx wrote: But I'm guessing that the # of User IDs and Group IDs are a maximum of 65535 in Linux. UUIDs are 128 bits long. That's more than enough to ID every atom in New York City, but not enough to describe, down to the quantum level, your fingernail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charolotte Caxton Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Rage Hyx wrote: Disband a group You can not directly delete a group, but in case you ensure that the membercount of the group remains smaller than 2 for a timeframe of 48 hours, the group will be disbanded. You can ensure that by ejecting all current members of the group and setting the group to a closed group (so no new members join). Once your group is disbanded, there is no way to get it back] and the name can't be taken again. OK so I can wake up in a bad mood ...eject all users and close the group. Im sure if land is involved it complicates things...but you dont have to involve land to have a group. Im looking at a basic group here. I create a group...I determine how may users I want to add ..when I want to add them...not some 2 day rule. I can think of only one reason ..LL wants to save resources and have determined that less than 2 users in a group is a waste of UID/GID resources..so they remove them. But I'm guessing that the # of User IDs and Group IDs are a maximum of 65535 in Linux. Im sure they have a farm of servers..I read in an article Second Life had at the time - 31,250 simulators and several sims run per server, plus there are a number of inventory servers, asset servers and utility servers. 0o Oh, that's a good point about ejecting everyone, I hadn't thought of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 R0xx wrote: I know how to play the system....I pay for a "Group" ...I should be able to determine how many accounts have access to it. You have to look at it from the OS side. Im sure they added a script to monitor the number of accounts that have a partiucular group access and to remove the group if the total mumber of users is less than 2. Why? If I did that in RL, and started removing the directory/folder structures...there would be hell to pay lol oO how is it playing the system if it is part of the system? one user/person can have many accounts..still one user.. the user is the one with both accounts..so they left it open so that one user could have a group to themselves for a lot of different reasons or have others in it with them.. why? who knows why really..maybe incase something happens to one account they can still access their land or business through another account they have in the group instead of losing it all because of some mishap.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
161488303349 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Charolotte Caxton wrote: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Group There is a brief mention here (scroll down to Groups) that groups with only one person are disbanded, unless they own land, but I couldn't find any more specifics about that. I think is because if is two, say you and your bff and you pay the Tier and then your now exbff had a hissy and left the group bc you went away on RL holiday for like a week or two. If they did that and the group was auto-disbanded after 48hours then you not be able to get control back over your own land. Not be able to get the Tier out either. Would prob have to make a ticket to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sy Beck Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 R0xx wrote: in part ..... The point my message here is If I own a group..then I expect unrestricted use of that group. I think LL is trying to apply RL people groups to equate to an OS group.. ...I can see a maximum number of users..but minimum? Thats BS So please don't respond with a "People" point of view. R0xx This is the reason why you need a "People" point of view. The problem with the OS not caring about how many people are in the group is that it also couldn't care less if your main can't log in and can't get access to its land either, it neither cares if someone has maliciously AR'd you and got you a temporary ban. It also doesn't care that your tenants or shop users can't get things sorted or rectified because you can't log in. So LL in a moment of lucidity and wisdom envisioned these very circumstances and thought we better put a failsafe in because that damned OS couldn't give a flying toss about anyone. A golden rule of design is, make the machine fit the person, don't try to make a person fit the machine. Your argument is technically valid, but inefficient for many eventualities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhojen Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Brilliant response, made me chuckle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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