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DarkSoul Nosferatu

Old viewers becoming obsolete

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Does anyone know when old viewers will become basically useless? I know with the new mesh coming online soon, older viewers wont be able to see them effectively.

 

Thanks,

DarkSoul Nosferatu

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They'll never be made useless, and certainly not at a certain date. After a while though, due to updates, they'll just be so ineffective, people won't want to use 'em anymore.

Just like, say... Windows 98. You could still use it if you wanted to. Good luck finding anything modern that'll run on it, though.

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it's already here... that should give you an idea of how much there is to worry about.

 

sheesh, if this keeps up, there's a chipmunk's joke that I'll have to start taking seriously =|

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I gather you are talking about viewer 1.23 and the TPV's based on that code.  To be honest, those viewers are already obsolete and have been for quite some time.  Viewer 1.23 cannot see the alpha layers properly, nor the new tatto layers and they cannot see real time shadows either.  When mesh hits the main grid (actually, I believe they are already here) they won't be able to see those properly (if at all).  The users of those viewers are missing a lot of what SL has to offer right now and when mesh gets more prevalent on the grid it's going impact those users very hard.  Avatars will be built using mesh and those people will not be able to appreciate any of that.  So I say those viewers are completely obsolete right this instant.........and, soon, they will become more or less useless.  When that happens I believe LL will discontinue the download of 1.23 and soon after completely block viewers based on that code.  My bet is by January next year they just won't exist on the grid.

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

[...]  Viewer 1.23 cannot see the alpha layers properly, nor the new tatto layers and they cannot see real time shadows either. [...]

news to me... my understanding is they see them just fine (they're all baked first anyways), but can't use them (because they don't have instructions on how to apply the new inventory types they represent). there was even some old shadow code in there (which is all viewer dependant anyways, and poorly coded in there). the only thing it has trouble seeing is avatar physics wearables, and now mesh.

TPV's have backported all of that, (although the oldest codebase I know of being used is 1.4 snowglobe for actively updated TPVs), with the exception of mesh which is being worked on by two different ones, perhaps more.

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There's so much crap and FUD being spread around about the 1.x series viewers that it would be awesome if LL would make an official statement and STICKY IT in these forums.

Despite what some are saying the 1.x viewers (more specifically the ones like Phoenix and Imprudence based on the Snowglobe 1.5 code) are indeed still useful and will remain so for the near future, No, they won't be able to see mesh but just like sculpties before, the widespread adoption of mesh isn't going to happen overnight. Contrary to what someone else posted the Snowglobe-based viewers have been updated to use most of the technologies in v2 including alpha layers, display names, media on a prim and much more. I still use Snowglobe on a daily basis and it works just fine. It's faster, more stable and MORE USABLE (for me) than the bug-laden mess that is v2.8. The things it can't do are either handled by various gadgets I own or I don't care about. For me having a stable and familiar SL experience trumps having access to the latest superflous shinies.

Yes, the end is coming for the 1.x series viewers, but that day is NOT today, not next month and probably not for many months to come. When the things you care about doing/experiencing in SL are no longer possible using a 1.x viewer, then you'll know the time is right to switch.

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Another computer in this house had to change from 1.23 to Imprudence to use the alpha layers...........that's how I know 1.23 cannot see them.  First hand experience.

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Plain vanilla LL 1.23.5 is one thing (and you didn't make that distinction originally-- you painted all 1.x TPVs with the obsolete brush) but Phoenix, Imprudence, etc that are based on Snowglobe are another matter altogether. Right now the only things they can't handle that v2 can are mesh and bouncing boobies, err... avatar physics.

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First sentence of my post:

 

"I gather you are talking about viewer 1.23 and the TPV's based on that code."

 

I was talking specifically about 1.23 and TPV's based on that code...........not 1.xx (Snowglobe), etc.  Anything else?

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DarkSoul Nosferatu wrote:

Ok, maybe not useless, but when is mesh supposed to come online officially? Seeing how viewer 1 and phoenix will not be able to see them properly.

Tomorrow starting at 8 am, to the Magnum and LeTigre RC server regions.  It's been on 100 or so regions since a week ago.  Assuming no problems come up, gridwide as early as next week, but likely they will let it sit longer before going grid-wide.

It's not just 1.xx based viewers that will not see Mesh.  Older 2.x versions don't have the mesh code enabled either.  Preferably you should get the most current 2.8.4 version (Cygwin = Windows version), since that the most recent fixes:

Mesh Project Viewer 2.8.4

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They are obsolete for me now.  The V2 outfits and the ability to wear multiple objects on the same attachment point and multiple items that are the same clothing layer is so wonderful that I would never use a viewer that lacked access to those features.  

I realize that guys who have one outfit consisting solely of a pair of pants and a male member might not feel the same way!

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Deej Kasshiki wrote:

[...] Contrary to what someone else posted the Snowglobe-based viewers have been updated to use most of the technologies in v2 including [...] media on a prim

You mean Shared Media?

What 1.x-based viewers fully support Shared Media?

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Deej Kasshiki wrote:

Plain vanilla LL 1.23.5 is one thing (and you didn't make that distinction originally-- you painted all 1.x TPVs with the obsolete brush) but Phoenix, Imprudence, etc that are based on Snowglobe are another matter altogether. Right now the only things they can't handle that v2 can are mesh and bouncing boobies, err... avatar physics.

You forgot multiple layers in that list ;) (This is a MAYOR point for me)

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Opensource Obscure wrote:


Deej Kasshiki wrote:

[...] Contrary to what someone else posted the Snowglobe-based viewers have been updated to use most of the technologies in v2 including [...] media on a prim

You mean
Shared Media
?

What 1.x-based viewers fully support Shared Media?

What do you need it for? It's useless!

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like I said, news to me.... last I knew they could be seen, not but not personally used... if you are saying 1.23 can't see them either I'll take your word for it. it's actually a bit of a shock considering 1.2x had the erasable skin bug, which operated on basically the same idea.

ETA:
@Ans: MOAP is good for inworld tv's, because it dosn't require direct file links to things like youtube, but it's been mostly experimental for anything else... because of the pain in the arse that lsl-http is... although there is some hope in the pipeline for decent communications with a new script command that allows html to be served directly from lsl. could be very good for control interfaces both in and out of world...

@Deej:
there's a V1x TPV with MOAP? which one? I know it's broken on phoenix, and impudence, and cool =/ singularity?

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Void: I didn't know that it was bugged on the TPVs, I just knew that it had been backported. I never actually tried it because of some potential security issues that I didn't want to deal with. Ok, so scratch one (overhyped and underused) feature that didn't make the backporting to the TPVs.

As for the alphas I have no idea about LL 1.23 because I don't use it. They show up for me just fine on Snowglobe. I can't use them but the viewer does render them correctly.

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darn, I was kinda hoping it had made it into one of the V1.42+ TPV's.... there's about to be an upgrade that could make it more accessible and usable.

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Phoenix cannot add layers, and of course outfit support is not really there. 

For me thats the only reason i will flip to V2 sometimes, usually to save myself since the old you are a cloud, you cannot stop being a cloude, character test time happens so much these days, outfits are my backup.

But now V2.8 has an irritating delay everytime i click an inventory item. No matter how hard i have tried, its always back to a non V2 based viewer.  

At this rate, it will take them until 2015 to have a V2 viewer that actually performs, i will forgo seeing shiny mesh over a non irritating experience.

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Yes, that's true, but to get prepared for when the V1 viewer stops working, the Firestorm Community is running a serious of videos right now on how to customize Firestorm like Phoenix.  To find the videos on You Tube, follow this path - You Tube, and then type in the You Tube search box 'Firestorm how to customize like Phoenix" and that should bring up several video tutorials for you on how to customize Firestorm like Phoenix.  This is just an FYI, in case you want to start watching the video tutorials on how to customize like Phoenix just to see if you like it before the lights go out completely, and as Peggy said, probably by January.  I told a club owner yesterday about the tutorials (which I just recently saw on the Firestorm viewer when opening) about this customization, and she was pretty thrilled to hear Firestorm could be customized like Phoenix.  Here's one link:  You might want when you have some time to download Firestorm and try some of the customizing like Phoenix tutorials on You Tube to see how you like it.   I'm not sure if this is the exact link to finding the tutorials on how to customize Firestorm like Phoenix, so if they aren't, someone else may know how you find the derned videos.  lol   Anyhow, sorry I didn't write down the url to the You Tube videos yesterday when I was on Firestorm.  But they are on You Tube somewhere?  



ETA:  okay I found the url, here it is:  http://youtube.com/user/phoenixviewers.  ETA:  the link says not found, but I think I wrote the url down correctly in my notebook?  hmmmmmmm?  Anyhow, if you download Firestorm today, you should be able to pick up the correct url they are running on Firestorm right now that directs you to where the customize like Phoenix tutorials are on You Tube, hopefully.  lol   Or maybe they just forget to put a www in the link. 

 

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Ansariel Hiller wrote:


Opensource Obscure wrote:

You mean
Shared Media
?

What 1.x-based viewers fully support Shared Media?


What do you need it for? It's useless!

Yeah, sure. Useless :D

Anyway. What 1.x-based viewers fully support the useless Shared Media?

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None at the moment although Siana from Singularity once told me she could port it from V2. But actually I don't see any reason to do it. It's useless - on V2 as well as on V1. For sure I don't want to enter any passwords there when visiting websites as it's a Webkit browser running in the background that has an unknown number of possible security issues. And if I want to watch YouTube videos, I already have a real webbrowser.

Anyway, I already said over a year ago when it first hit the grid it's useless and a security hole. And back then some fanboys already had lots of great ideas with it - haven't seen any in the meantime that put any value in Shared Media at all. After all, it's just another usesless feature in the list of useless crap: Web profiles, the Facebookization, a viewer that disrespects all principles of UI design guidelines, coding guidelines and customer whishes, Mesh...

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I built a webserver using it.....

there's an improvement in pipe that will make it useful for hud design, although personally I see no advantage there over existing texture based versions, except perhaps nicer reactive buttons.

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Ansariel Hiller wrote:

...

Anyway, I already said over a year ago when it first hit the grid it's useless and a security hole. And back then some fanboys already had lots of great ideas with it - haven't seen any in the meantime that put any value in Shared Media at all. After all, it's just another usesless feature in the list of useless crap: Web profiles, the Facebookization, a viewer that disrespects all principles of UI design guidelines, coding guidelines and customer whishes, Mesh...

I haven't figured out why I want to watch shared media.  Plus VWR 2 has only one "play" button and it starts ALL media.  What a mess that is.

And the latest VWR 2 won't run on my computer that used to run it.  And my BRAND NEW computer won't run VWR 2 either.

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-26560

Between my three computers that I have used for SL, they run al viewers except VWR 2. I can still run OnRez!  But something happened to my main SL computer and now it's super laggy on any viewer I try.

http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/SUP-4586

My best Sl experience, even today, is still with VWR 1.

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HotRodJohnny Gears wrote:

 VWR 2 has only one "play" button and it starts ALL media.  What a mess that is.


I guess you're not interested about it, but that's not correct: you can start or stop individual media with Viewer 2. That's what the "More" button is for.

Just one of many wrong or out-of-date information still being spread about Viewer 2.

like "you can't get rid of display names" (you can)

like "chat popups everywhere" (disable them and live happy)

like "you must use the sidebar" (just detach the panels)

I guess some people think we're still at release 2.0. Many things changed since then. in Viewer .

PS

Mesh will be useless as well? that's really priceless. Thanks for the humor, forum commenters.

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