"Reserved Rights"

[Narugawanaisa Yumako]

Hey guys

Ok basically im seeing this new craze lately in people's profile saying "i reserve the right to do as i please with im's and conversations"

Im curious were this started and why, because thats a load of "beep", to be honest. Private messages are called Private for that exact reason, there private

And nowhere in the Linden Labs Agreements does it say that anyone has that right but Linden with there own software. nowhere does it claim thats a legality for people, or that people have those rights that ive seen

Now i can understand a report to linden due to abuse maybe, but when people are using this "profile statement" as a legality to go around giving out private conversations to other people for no reason at all

im pretty sure thats actually breaking the rules

And im pretty sure people are using this to break privacy terms left and right and invade people's privacy

What does the community and linden think of this little craze 

[Griffin Ceawlin]

You're right, it is a load.

The people who have these "disclaimers" in their profiles seem to think that if you IM them, you're somehow giving them consent to share private conversations. If all participants did give consent, then it would be within the TOS. But simply reading (or not reading) a "disclaimer" and then IMing someone does not equal consent, implied or otherwise.

We're not talking about legal scholars here...

[Janelle Darkstone]

What they actually mean when they say all that stuff in their profiles is "Mute me!  Mute me now and save yourself the trouble later!"  I find it extraordinarily helpful and a real timesaver.

[Knowl Paine]

Community Standards, Policy  #4. Disclosure

http://secondlife.com/corporate/cs.php

 

Terms of Service, Conduct, Section 8.2

http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php#tos8

 

Terms of Service, Suspension Termination, Section 11.4

http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php#tos11

[Narugawanaisa Yumako]

as i said , its against the rules section 8.2 under that you will NOTS (v) Post, display or transmit Content that is harmful, threatening or harassing, defamatory, libelous, false, inaccurate, misleading, or invades another person's privacy

Persay, it does not say anywhere that a profile comment miracely gives you the right to go handing out people's personal and private conversations

My only question is, what is linden labs going to do about people with these "disclaimers" in there profiles

[Ian Undercroft]

I've never understood the justification for what appears to be a blanket prohibition on posting or sharing conversation logs without consent.

I agree that confidences should not be breached, but do not understand why somebody who repeatedly IMs strangers and harrasses them by making lewd and offensive comments is entitled to have any expectation that the conversation log will not be posted and shared by the victim for others (and, in particular, those responsible for managing good conduct at a particular sim) to see. 

Furthermore, conversing with friends and associates often, and quite naturally, results in you telling friends and associates what other friends and associates have told you in IMs. It seems to me odd that it appears permissible to paraphrase (possibly inaccurately) the substance of an IM conversation (providing, of course, that privacy is not invaded and no confidence is breached) and yet not share what exactly was said and the precise words used.

[Brynn Ametza]

   Hi there,

   LL will get involved once they are made aware of the actual sharing of IM's. So far as I can tell, saying that you "can" do it isn't a violation where catually "doing it is. Therefore, once you know that someone is sharing private info inside of SL you can file an AR and then LL will act. Of course, this can be rather difficult to prove as you likely would never encounter someone with whom your IM's were shared. Your best option is to just avoid such people. If you've already entered a conversation with them and then notice it you can state that you have not given permission to share this or any future conversations in perpetuity and move on as you wish. Remember, express consent is rather like a signature, you must say to the individual in question, at that time, "Yes, you can share that conversation."

[Jaylin Wytchwood]

Well, unless that person has a no-mod notecard made by you, allowing them said behaviour, they can write into their profiles whatever they want. If they act on it, you can AR them.

 

I guess, the people having such statements come from 2 pools of people:

a) "I have no idea what this does, but i wanna be sure, to state"

b) "In such a smartass, and make my own rules"

 

Whilst a) might be educated, b) is a prime example for a Mute-Me-Drama-Llama.

 

 

[Chronometria]

I have seen these, i have also seen people putting "your disclaimer is worthless" in their profiles, basically firing pre-emptive shots at them. It's like some sort of wierd war going on in the profiles.

[Wildcat Furse]

oh, I just MUTE them .... :matte-motes-dead: *meows*

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

I go the other way around.  My profile reads:

"All of my inworld chat is released CC to be duplicated anywhere inworld and out. ()"

=^-^=

 

 

[Dresden Ceriano]

I agree with what most have said in reply to your OP. But I must point out that while sharing IMs is not allowed inside of SL, I don't believe the TOS covers sharing then outside of SL, nor can it. Many, many times I've seen people posting IMs on blogs and such with no repercussion. I suppose the same would go for directly emailed IMs. Unfortunately LL has little control over that kind of thing... they can barely police the grid, no way they could police the whole of the internet, even if they had the jurisdiction.

I believe the people that put these sorts of statements in their profile are actually saying, "I do not wish to talk to anyone with any kind of sense." Since no one with two brain cells would bother holding a private conversation with someone like that unless a) they just don't care or b) they haven't even read that person's profile (I'm amused at some people's ability to start a conversation with someone without even glancing once at their profile... I can't resist pulling up everybody's profile that IMs me if I don't know them and usually even if I do... lol).

...Dres

[Venus Petrov]

The disclaimers are a load of s**t.  Do not fret about seeing them.  You can judge for yourself whether or not you wish to converse with someone who puts it in their profile.  When I see it in a profile, it shrieks 'DRAMA' and I limit my chat with them.

[Ceka Cianci]

i've seen a few reasons why people put those in there..

some are just ignorant and think it is actually true..mainly because some other ignorant person told them it was lol

some do it to avoid drama..

some do it to avoid people

some do it because some are just drama queens

 

this is about all the ones i've heard that i can remember anyways hehehe

 

[Void Singer]

---

Narugawanaisa Yumako wrote:

[...] My only question is, what is linden labs going to do about people with these "disclaimers" in there profiles

---

nothing.

 

they WILL however get involved if the people with those disclaimers are actually stupid enough to do what they say within SL's domain, and get caught.

 

 

personally I love those disclaimers, and even more the ones that stick it in their auto-responders (hint, that doesn't work either). it's the perfect moron detector for people that have no clue, no understanding of law, and no common sense.

[Cabbage Acanthus]

You are correct.  It is a load of "beep".

Those disclaimers in the profile mean absolutely nothing.  If they break the TOS, you can AR them regardless.

[Melita Magic]

"In reading this blah blah..."

How can the prove you read it? Even if it wasn't clearly against the TOS it's an unenforceable contract.

I'm going to rez a sign in real life that says "In reading this you agree to give me all your money, say out loud that you want to marry Bigfoot, hop on one foot for ten years..." I think a lot of people would fall for it don't you? Not so much. There's no agreement implied in simply reading something the first time or contracts would need no signatures in real life. Lol

 

[Melita Magic]

---

Void Singer wrote:

 it's the perfect moron detector for people that have no clue, no understanding of law, and no common sense.

---

 

This is what I really meant.

[Ian Undercroft]

I agree that reserving expressly in your profile the right dislose is pointless and worthless.

However, you're kidding yourselves if you think that dislosures in apparent breach of the ToS are not routinely made. I imagine that the overwhelming majority of those who make such dislosures do not reserve the right to do in their profiles. I think the ToS to which reference has been made are themsleves pretty much unenforceable.

[161488303349]

---

Ian Undercroft wrote:

I agree that confidences should not be breached, but do not understand why somebody who repeatedly IMs strangers and harrasses them by making lewd and offensive comments is entitled to have any expectation that the conversation log will not be posted and shared by the victim for others (and, in particular, those responsible for managing good conduct at a particular sim) to see. 

 

Same. When random strangers do this to me in IM in busy areas, I just copypasta it to open chat. Is against TOS technically to do this, but I'm not going to accept this kinda behaviour from anyone.

[Dresden Ceriano]

You are skating on thin ice doing this.

It's one thing to not except it, but it's another to willfully break TOS in a misguided attempt to... oh hell, I have no idea what you're attempting to do by doing that. There is no reason to break TOS just because you take offense to what someone says to you privately. What would posting it in chat do except stir up more drama?

The only thing that will do any good is letting LL know, not everybody that may be in the vicinity. Not only that, if what they said was sufficiently vulgar, what would stop you from getting in trouble for broadcasting that in public? All I'm saying is use a little common sense.

Either mute (block) them and move on or deal with it on a one to one basis. Sometimes just telling someone you don't appreciate their behavior can do wonders; if they insist on continuing to mess with you, there is always the option to AR them... simple as that.

...Dres