The End Of An Era and what was a wonderful, enlightened virtual world....

[LibertyFlea Mahogany]

2 hours ago, WeFlossDaily said:

/me deposits new conspiracy theory.

LL is actually located in Kursk Oblast and everything is totally and completely fine.

If just the lags caused by LL would not last as long as the current PR siege of the Oblast region. most of us lagging, freezing, crashing would soon be honky dory, and al would love the shine, glitter, bling PBR is meant to offer

/me Hopes only LL is stepped on its toe

 

[WeFlossDaily]

6 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Well, that all depends on what look you're looking for.  As I've mentioned before, my SL shape is fairly close to my RL shape.  I'm heavier from the waist down and always have been.  Yes, you can do more extreme shapes with it than with other bodies.  Not everyone (you do tend to generalize A LOT) goes to the extreme.  There is nothing about my booty that needs 'tamed'. 

I find imitating the way AI portrays us to be very disturbing. Sorry, it's one of those things I have a really, really hard time articulating. It's sort of like how Barbie suggests unrealistic portions to us in plastic, except now it is this weird AI shape that has gone on to infect our collective perceptions of how we should look. It's really hard to explain. Does uncanny valley make sense?

[WeFlossDaily]

32 minutes ago, LibertyFlea Mahogany said:

/me Hopes only LL is stepped on its toe

I think LL fell down the stairs this time around. I keep trying to phone for rescue. But everybody keeps telling me that everything is fine and that LL fell down the stairs on purpose or something to that effect.

[Rowan Amore]

19 minutes ago, WeFlossDaily said:

I find imitating the way AI portrays us to be very disturbing. Sorry, it's one of those things I have a really, really hard time articulating. It's sort of like how Barbie suggests unrealistic portions to us in plastic, except now it is this weird AI shape that has gone on to infect our collective perceptions of how we should look. It's really hard to explain. Does uncanny valley make sense?

I have no idea what the heck you're talking about.  I used my RL shape as a guide for my SL shape.  Nothing whatsoever to do with AI or Barbie.  That YOU do that or other do that, I can't say.  I couldn't care less what other people base their avatars on.  What I do dislike is when people, such as yourself, generalize an entire group.  So, please stop that.  

[WeFlossDaily]

3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I have no idea what the heck you're talking about.

I know.

[SandorWren]

13 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I'm glad you're speaking out. I was the first one to knock PBR and took a huge beating for it and still do but I know I'm right and you're right -- in their chase after some ellusive "look" that they think makes game worlds popular, the Lindens have failed once again. These tech bros endlessly chase after the gaming community that will never love them because really, SL isn't a war game. It has residents as creators, no uniform "look" controlled utterly by developers only, and therefore cannot countenance something like the radical shift to PBR.

Nobody asked for PBR, but LL engaged in the usual active measures, like a low-level Kremlin propagandist, to force people to adapt it -- making creators feel like they would suffer FOMO right before the birthday and urging them to "go PBR" with their wares before Shop 'n Hop -- or risk being passed over in the application pile and miss a chance for the greatest sale opportunity of the year. Pushing PBR all over the birthday -- I literally had my building buddy in the exhibit put up her tower so I could hide inside its rooms away from the glare on the roads and street lamps in the exhibit area that literally hurt my RL eyes. 

I now go to events and see a lot of stuff that appears like white, full-perm, untextured mesh -- because you can no longer see the current PBR textures, blingy or not unless you load the viewer.

Firestorm is crashing for everyone I meet every 20 minutes -- and that's not just the viewer, that's the world, it has all been adversely affected by PBR.

LL has become so invested in this -- and sicced all the usual suspects on us, the reality-checkers, portraying us as stick-in-the-muds, chumps "whose computers are ready for kindergarten" as a Linden once quipped about us, i.e. five years old -- that I fear they will not adjust or turnback.

I fear it will be like one of those de-transitioners who has surgery, then regrets it, then goes on a Daily Wire show. There will never be any going back. And yet it was all so avoidable by taking the time to adjust -- or not.

There is no actual, existential need for PBR. You have brilliantly stated that bling in fact has always been seen in SL as low-life, as something of a joke. "GLow" is at least something you can dial down after you buy it, if the product is on mod. There is no getting rid of PBR. It's like the Cat-in-the-Hat's indelible mess.

I remember The Sims Online tried all these innovations that flopped. Bringing in RL corporations (they gave the McDonald's hamburger a low hunger satiation value because some programmer got all anti-capitalist on them, and they pulled out, to the laughter of users who didn't buy the burgers that wouldn't feed them). Getting rid of "gaming the system" and "making things hard" (remember the sandbox servers?).  Adding new content (the milkshakes? What a flop!). Allowing resident creations very cautiously (never really fit). I'm glad to see that after we saw the big GAME OVER sign in TSO sadly, that Free Sims Onlin or FreeSO was created and is still humming along, with a lot of creativity to it, even though it is mainly 2D (it has 3D which doesn't quite work in my view).

It would be one thing if we oldbies or poor folks without fancy computers -- a lot of us!!! -- could just be allowed to keep our old viewers and sit on our own sims or lots and still look at our old content and not be forced to view the new bling. "Change is inevitable," the wiki scolds us -- but who says it has to be THIS change?

For every smug merchant -- and shopper -- who says WORKS ON MY MACHINE, I will have to caution you that when you have far less customers and/or you start to see higher prices and less sales and events -- then maybe you will understand what you lost. The concurrency is at 30,000 now. Even allowing for summer, that's not good. It might go up to 40,000. That's not good. If you want to really bring change you have to do things that enable people to stay and new people to come in -- who will never have the high-end computers envisioned to make SL "shine".

It's arrogance, it's ignorance of their actual userbase, it's aggressive obedience to imaginary external standards, it's belief that might makes right.

I will be in SL 21 years in September 2024, and perhaps it will be my last year as well. I'm probably too old to migrate to another virtual world. The existing viewers (except CoolViewer) are also clubbing their users over the head with threats that they will be forced to go to the PBR viewer. 

I am not buying a new computer in the forseeable future. I could see having to leave SL, and then perhaps drifting back in a year or two if I don't find a better creative and social outlet, but finally buy a new computer I can afford (the best I will be able to do now is maybe repair a broken one). But by that time, what will be the Next Bing Thing to cripple the grid? We will never keep up. LL will be alone ultimately in the code cave with program and dev flaks, alone with the few fanboyz and girlz who remain, as in Plato's Cave. Then they will write the last chapter, not us.

 

This also happens with Windows, mac OS, and Linux. Eventually, older computers die, and we ARE forced to replace them. Eventually WE die, and LL is forced to replace US. LL has no choice but to try and implement change. I firmly believe that one day there will be a fully realistic version of SL. As if we were living in a RL movie. If LL doesn't move forward, LL WILL die and need replacing.

Edited August 9 by SandorWren

[WeFlossDaily]

6 minutes ago, SandorWren said:

I firmly believe that one day there will be a fully realistic version of SL.

Dude, just go* outside.

Edited August 9 by WeFlossDaily
missing word*

[SandorWren]

3 minutes ago, WeFlossDaily said:

Dude, just go* outside.

Why?

[WeFlossDaily]

Why not?

[SandorWren]

10 minutes ago, WeFlossDaily said:

Why not?

We watch photorealistic movies. We see the hulk and and the X-men. None of us can do the things they can in RL. That's what attracts us to watch. The concept that it APPEARS real. Not everyone likes cartoons (I do though)

Edited August 9 by SandorWren

[WeFlossDaily]

Just now, SandorWren said:

We watch photorealistic movies. We see the hulk and and the X-men. None of us can do the things they can in RL. That's what attracts us to watch. The concept that it APPEARS real. 

Trading functionality for aesthetics is a mistake, just my opinion.

[SandorWren]

17 minutes ago, WeFlossDaily said:

Trading functionality for aesthetics is a mistake, just my opinion.

We can't argue over what appeals to us. It's a personal thing. i persanally have both with PBR. But I know that not everyone does.

Edited August 9 by SandorWren

[WeFlossDaily]

3 minutes ago, SandorWren said:

We can't argue over what appeals to us. It's a personal thing. i persanally have both with PBR. But I know that not everyone does.

Sometimes a double-think is an very objective viewpoint. =]

[SandorWren]

3 minutes ago, WeFlossDaily said:

Sometimes a double-think is an very objective viewpoint. =]

It doesn't change my mind on the fact that eventually there WILL be a fully photorealistic virtual world.

[LibertyFlea Mahogany]

21 minutes ago, SandorWren said:

It doesn't change my mind on the fact that eventually there WILL be a fully photorealistic virtual world.

When SL can be compared with a restaurant meant for all people to have a fine dinner,  good selection of food, tables for singles, couples, families, groups, then LL now is in a process of innovation where all is gone except the menu card with most fantastic photos showing what one maybe ever might be able to order... How long will it be visited when one simply wants what the restaurant was meant to be ?

[SandorWren]

12 minutes ago, LibertyFlea Mahogany said:

When SL can be compared with a restaurant meant for all people to have a fine dinner,  good selection of food, tables for singles, couples, families, groups, then LL now is in a process of innovation where all is gone except the menu card with most fantastic photos showing what one maybe ever might be able to order... How long will it be visited when one simply wants what the restaurant was meant to be ?

in all honesty though,  The PBR change hasn't affected my SL in any way other than a nicer look. I have the choice of using the non-PBR FS. I prefer PBR. Caitlin  has had to  use the pre-PBR on her Mac. And eventually there WILL be a fully photorealistic virtual world. SL is like Windows 8 right now for some people. It isn't for me. But we WILL die out. LL needs new people in order to sustain SL.

 

Edited August 9 by SandorWren

[Orwar]

3 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

That depends on your definition of "tamed".

   Cracks a whip and holds up a burning hoola-hoop.

   .. Oh, not that definition? 

[WeFlossDaily]

The other one?

[SandorWren]

39 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   Cracks a whip and holds up a burning hoola-hoop.

   .. Oh, not that definition? 

I WAS hoping!!!

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

3 hours ago, SandorWren said:

in all honesty though,  The PBR change hasn't affected my SL in any way other than a nicer look. I have the choice of using the non-PBR FS. I prefer PBR. Caitlin  has had to  use the pre-PBR on her Mac. And eventually there WILL be a fully photorealistic virtual world. SL is like Windows 8 right now for some people. It isn't for me. But we WILL die out. LL needs new people in order to sustain SL.

 

PBR hasn't changed the way I do things inworld, but I hate the way it looks. 

I would turn it off if I thought I had a choice.  It's flat out ugly. 

Is my SL better with it? No, it's worse. Along with visuals I just don't like, I crash more often, fail more often in teleport, and have fps drops I can't explain, textures load painfully slowly if they load at all..

I fail to see a positive in the change. 

Having PBR won't run me off the platform, but it is in no way an improvement  

 

Edited August 9 by Cinnamon Mistwood
Spelling

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, Orwar said:

 Cracks a whip and holds up a burning hoola-hoop.

   .. Oh, not that definition? 

The city I grew up in actually had such acts at the ZOO when I was young!

 

[SandorWren]

22 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

PBR hasn't changed the way I do things inworld, but I hate the way it looks. 

I would turn it off if I thought I had a choice.  It's flat out ugly. 

Is my SL better with it? No, it's worse. Along with visuals I just don't like, I crash more often, fail more often in teleport, and have fps drops I can't explain, textures load painfully slowly if they load at all..

I fail to see a positive in the change. 

Having PBR won't run me off the platform, but it is in no way an improvement  

 

The slowdown you're experiencing is why I'm experimentenig with Linux. I don't see things look ugly on my side. I don't see much difference at all (in most places). But that could just be my new PC, and the way it renders. And you CAN run the pre-PBR verion of FS. Honestly though, I couldn't care less whether it was implemented or not. It's not enough of a change to mean anything. Other than to annoy people. BUT...SL cannot stagnate, or we won't have an SL.

Edited August 9 by SandorWren

[WeFlossDaily]

2 minutes ago, SandorWren said:

The slowdown you're experiencing is why I'm experimentenig with Linux. I don't see things look ugly on my side. I don't see much difference at all (in most places). But that could just be my new PC, and the way it renders. And you CAN run the pre-PBR verion of FS. Honestly though, I couldn't care less whether it was implemented or not. It's not enough of a change to mean anything. Other than to annoy people.

If you understand, and I def don't completely understand it, the amount of increased demand on your system resources the new PBR viewers require for the minimal gains they offer in exchange, you might be furious. But then again it is suppose to do amazing things for us with additional features. But . . . how on Earth are some of us supposed to be able to deal with some of the newer features when we can barely deal with PBR. I usually use pre-PBR viewers and lately have been experimenting with a text-based no mesh render viewer, since it essentially allows me to stand around in sims I'm familiar with and chat, lol.

[BriannaLovey]

17 minutes ago, SandorWren said:

The slowdown you're experiencing is why I'm experimentenig with Linux. I don't see things look ugly on my side. I don't see much difference at all (in most places). But that could just be my new PC, and the way it renders. And you CAN run the pre-PBR verion of FS. Honestly though, I couldn't care less whether it was implemented or not. It's not enough of a change to mean anything. Other than to annoy people. BUT...SL cannot stagnate, or we won't have an SL.

The ugliness that people are seeing is likely for 2 reasons:

1) Some creators who want to try putting PBR materials on their stuff may be overdoing it.

2) Many people are using environment settings that are being broken by PBR as a result of changes.

7 minutes ago, WeFlossDaily said:

If you understand, and I def don't completely understand it, the amount of increased demand on your system resources the new PBR viewers require for the minimal gains they offer in exchange, you might be furious. But then again it is suppose to do amazing things for us with additional features. But . . . how on Earth are some of us supposed to be able to deal with some of the newer features when we can barely deal with PBR. I usually use pre-PBR viewers and lately have been experimenting with a text-based no mesh render viewer, since it essentially allows me to stand around in sims I'm familiar with and chat, lol.

Don't wait for the winds to shift. Adjust your sails to the wind. LL isn't going to do anything about it at the end of the day, so all you can do is try to help people who are affected the most.

[Dorientje Woller]

11 minutes ago, BriannaLovey said:

The ugliness that people are seeing is likely for 2 reasons:

1) Some creators who want to try putting PBR materials on their stuff may be overdoing it.

2) Many people are using environment settings that are being broken by PBR as a result of changes.

Don't wait for the winds to shift. Adjust your sails to the wind. LL isn't going to do anything about it at the end of the day, so all you can do is try to help people who are affected the most.

And negativity hasn't helped somebody going forward.