Firestorm PBR Release Is Out

[Codex Alpha]

1 minute ago, Cristiano Midnight said:

To be fair, SL users should not have to delve into debug settings at all. Whatever setting fixed your issue should be front and center in preferences, not buried in debug.

Isn't it simply the setting to limit the size of textures seen? I've seen that somewhere in the advanced menus I think

I'd keep my high settings  for testing my  own stuff, and when I don't want to, not see everyone's 'glorious' 2k x 16 textures on everything around me, choking my FPS to death

Edited June 21 by Codex Alpha

[Modulated]

1 minute ago, Cristiano Midnight said:

To be fair, SL users should not have to delve into debug settings at all. Whatever setting fixed your issue should be front and center in preferences, not buried in debug.

Unless it's a setting that someone who isn't technically inclined should be messing with, then burying it is good IMO. And debug is full of those kinds.

Edited June 21 by Modulated

[Cristiano Midnight]

12 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

Isn't it simply the setting to limit the size of textures seen? I've seen that somewhere in the advanced menus I think

There is a setting now actually in preferences for that. Still, the point being, a lot of this stuff should not be buried in either Advanced or Debug or anywhere else.

Edited June 21 by Cristiano Midnight

[Sid Nagy]

4 hours ago, Cristiano Midnight said:

Imagine if the Firestorm team had released it not long after the SL release in December. Even with issues that are being faced, it would have been far worse.

If Firestorm would just adopt the LL viewers engine and stay away from what is over their heads, the Firestorm viewer would have functioned as the Linden Lab viewer since day one of PBR and that is not too bad.
The Firestorm devs should stay with what they know: Fiddling a bit with the look and feel of the interface and rename functions.

Edited June 21 by Sid Nagy

[Cristiano Midnight]

1 minute ago, Modulated said:

Unless it's a setting that someone who isn't technically inclined should be messing with, then burying it is good IMO. And debug is full of those kinds.

Yes but they were just talking about how quick users are to be impatient. If something is negatively affecting performance like that, it probably should be in preferences somewhere, even behind a screen or two. You should not have to mess with debug settings.

[Modulated]

Just now, Sid Nagy said:

If Firestorm would just adopt the LL viewers engine and stay away from what is over their heads, the firestorm viewer would have functioned as the Linden Lab viewer since day one of PBR and that is not too bad.

FS uses the LL engine.....always has.

[AmeliaJ08]

1 hour ago, SueWorthly said:

The Steam Deck, with 7.1.9 at mid, gets about 145 FPS. Adding shadows: about 120. At ultra: about 60. Also at mid+shadows it still works decently among trees with shadows enabled. To save battery, I limit the FPS and reduce the graphic settings, though.

As far as I know the Steam Deck's GPU is roughly equivalent to a GTX1050Ti but will presumably have the usual AMD OpenGL performance penalty in SL viewers. If this is the performance you're getting though that is excellent, I'm curious to see how this viewer performs with AMD's latest iGPUs like the 780M in the new Ryzens.

 

[Cristiano Midnight]

Just now, Sid Nagy said:

If Firestorm would just adopt the LL viewers engine and stay away from what is over their heads, the firestorm viewer would have functioned as the Linden Lab viewer since day one of PBR and that is not too bad.

You keep making third party developers sound like bumbling idiots. I don't get it. If you think the SL viewer with PBR did not have issues, you aren't paying attention. The issues people are now seeing in Firestorm is because most people won't use the SL viewer, myself included, so this is their first experience with it. Your anti-TPV stance is odd.

[Sid Nagy]

1 minute ago, Modulated said:

FS uses the LL engine.....always has.

Then why the long delay?
Feeding the meme that they fix problems in the engine?

[AmeliaJ08]

2 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

If Firestorm would just adopt the LL viewers engine and stay away from what is over their heads, the Firestorm viewer would have functioned as the Linden Lab viewer since day one of PBR and that is not too bad.
The Firestorm devs should stay with what they know: Fiddling a bit with the look and feel of the interface and rename functions.

Dude...

[Sid Nagy]

2 minutes ago, Cristiano Midnight said:

You keep making third party developers sound like bumbling idiots. I don't get it.

Because that is what a lot of Firestorm fans do with the Linden Lab devs here.
As if the Firestorm Gods fix the Linden Lab problems. Which of course they don't.
On a side note: The LL viewer works flawless. with textures.
One can dislike the PBR efforts, but it functions.

Edited June 21 by Sid Nagy

[Cristiano Midnight]

Just now, Sid Nagy said:

Then why the long delay?
Feeding the meme that they fix problems in the engine?

They found showstopping bugs in PBR that they did not want to release as part of Firestorm. That was the delay. It took months for LL to finally fix them. They should be commended for taking a stand to help their users, not scorned by you as morons who should stick to making pretty UIs. It is easy to criticize when you aren't the one doing the work.

[Cristiano Midnight]

Just now, Sid Nagy said:

Because that is what a lot of Firestorm fans do with the Linden Lab devs here.
As if the Firestorm Gods fix the Linden Lab problems.

The "Firestorm Gods" work with LL to help get issues resolved. Linden Lab rushed their release. It should not have been released when it was. "We'll fix it later" is not a great attitude for customer facing software.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

5 hours ago, Anna Salyx said:

In what way?  I'll admit my own personal use of RLVa is probably on the lighter side of things, but I've not had any issues at all with RLVa functions through the various betas and now to live.  So we need details of what's broke that can be tested or that's just 'fear mongering', for lack of a better phrase, by some for unknown as yet reasons.  I am not saying that there is nothing broke but "broke the crap out of" is hardly a valid metric to go on.

If you want to know how it's broken, try asking the Bloatstorm users who have posted on this forum about it failing.

Stuff like changes to the rlv command buffer, that somehow cause it to ignore both commands if it gets two, close together, was one problem mentioned.

 

I'm generously going to assume if you read MY post, then you can READ other peoples posts, specifically the ones reporting THEY were having rlva failures in new bloatstorm.

 

[Modulated]

2 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Then why the long delay?
Feeding the meme that they fix problems in the engine?

I say this respectfully but you don't know what you are talking about and I will leave it at that.

[Cristiano Midnight]

2 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Because that is what a lot of Firestorm fans do with the Linden Lab devs here.
As if the Firestorm Gods fix the Linden Lab problems. Which of course they don't.
On a side note: The LL viewer works flawless. with textures.
One can dislike the PBR efforts, but it functions.

Funny, it is flawless for me in Firestorm as well. Now what?

[Zalificent Corvinus]

3 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

(GLTF scenes have a lot of awesome features, can be rigged, unlimited texture faces, hierarchies and for people with bodies and clothing .. shape keys. There would be no need for multiple different bodies or items to be rigged multiple times. One body. One outfit. Shape keys change the whole lot at the same time . The same body can be slender, buxom, child, giant, whatever.)

And I guarantee we'll be told that NONE of that "pie-in-the-sky-tomorrow" GitElf goodness will work with "existing out-of-date bodies", so we'll all be told we need to drop 5k on the new GitElf Industry Standard body from RipOff Inc, and then re-buy our entire wardrobe again from scratch, just like they tried to get us to do with Lageza FailX, and LardaX Failbutt.

 

But all that's going to be a quite few years away, if ever,  right.

 

[Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia]

5 hours ago, Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia said:

Initial impressions:

I logged into my linden home, and got 40 fps.  It bounces down to 25 when I'm changing.  That's low.  I usually get 60+ fps, but whatever.  25-40 is usable.  I am on my high setting, after all.  I wear an avatar with 34k complexity, walk out my front door, and rez my Bandit IF.  Then, I sail it from the pier at Smokey, down to Campwich Lodge.

After a couple of regions, my fps is dropping into the 20s more regularly, so I change my graphics preset to sailing.  It's basically low settings, with a high draw distance, and some LOD tweaks.  I bounce up to 30-40 fps.  When I"m in the middle of Lake Bellisseria, my FPS hits 60+, but then it drops into the 20s when houses are in draw distance.

Coming into campwich, I got FPS in the teens, and dropped textures everywhere.  After I dock, I sit there and type this up.  My FPS is dropping to 8.  After sitting at the dock for 5-10 minutes, the textures finally rez in.  Here are two pictures to illustrate the issue.

Firestorm support chat is blowing up, as expected.  One fix that everybody seems to need immediately is the exposure problem.  In Preferences > Graphics tab, there's a setting for Exposure.  It is set to 1.0.  Most people say this is blinding.  Try setting it to 0.6, or something like that, and things might look better for you.

Now, I'm off to SL21B, to really torture test this viewer, with PBR and big crowds!

Edit:  Here are my hardware specs.

Update:  After I whitelisted SL again, the slow loading texture issue resolved.  I had to remove the old whitelisting settings and replace them, even though they look the same to me, because bit defender sees a new install as a new program.

I'm at the SL21B opening ceremony now, and I'm getting like 10 FPS, which is expected.  I turned off mirrors and am running with low graphics settings.  I'm not overheating at all.  My CPU and GPU temps aren't hitting 60.

So it's not that bad for me, so far.  I haven't seen a mirror yet, though.

[KellyMorris]

2 minutes ago, Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia said:

Update:  After I whitelisted SL again, the slow loading texture issue resolved.  I had to remove the old whitelisting settings and replace them, even though they look the same to me, because bit defender sees a new install as a new program.

I'm at the SL21B opening ceremony now, and I'm getting like 10 FPS, which is expected.  I turned off mirrors and am running with low graphics settings.  I'm not overheating at all.  My CPU and GPU temps aren't hitting 60.

So it's not that bad for me, so far.  I haven't seen a mirror yet, though.

You have Mirror turned off, you won't see any  

[Luna Bliss]

8 minutes ago, Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia said:

After I whitelisted SL again, the slow loading texture issue resolved.  I had to remove the old whitelisting settings and replace them, even though they look the same to me, because bit defender sees a new install as a new program.

I'm going to try that and see if my fan stops working as hard.  Was this such a problem in previous releases with a need to whitelist SL?

[Coffee Pancake]

18 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

But all that's going to be a quite few years away, if ever,  right.

GLTF scene upload with rigging and animation is functional on beta regions now.

[Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia]

5 minutes ago, KellyMorris said:

You have Mirror turned off, you won't see any  

Oh yeah, LOL... I meant I haven't tried to see them yet.

I left the opening ceremonies and went to a region with maybe a dozen other users, and my viewer seized up, then my cam started going haywire.  I teleported to a quiet island on the blake, then back to an SL21B region, because I know SL21B is supposed to be full of this PBR stuff.  I was getting crap performance even on a quiet SL21B sim.  15-20FPS.

Also, my lighting looks like garbage.  I'm wearing a flannel over a t-shirt (don't judge me, I grew up in the 90s!).  My flannel is super shiny!  It looks like I can't decide between having a latex fetish or a flannel fetish, so I'm wearing flannel made of latex.

I'm still curious about what happens if I try to see the fancy PBR stuff, so I turn on all the fancy stuff.  My FPS evens out around 12.  My CPU is like 58-60 degrees, my GPU is around 54 degrees.

I'm still wearing latex flannel, though.  That can't be comfortable with everything being this bright.  Gotta lower that stupid 1.0 exposure value before I get sunburn, LOL

So, as far as I can tell, the fancy PBR stuff looks like garbage.  I haven't seen anything that makes it worth the performance loss.  PBR was a dumb idea.

I am still testing this out, but if I had to make a choice right now, I think I'll probably roll back to the last version of firestorm, just because I'd rather see blank textures than lose performance like this.

[Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia]

8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm going to try that and see if my fan stops working as hard.  Was this such a problem in previous releases with a need to whitelist SL?

Yeah, white listing was always like this.  It's just been so long since a major update, we forgot about it.

[Rick Nightingale]

26 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

As if the Firestorm Gods fix the Linden Lab problems. Which of course they don't.

I have specific experience, because I was directly involved in it, of them working to do exactly that with a data-loss bug introduced into the viewer by LL, and thus manifesting in FS (and others) too

 

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

3 minutes ago, Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia said:

I'm wearing a flannel over a t-shirt (don't judge me, I grew up in the 90s!).  My flannel is super shiny!  It looks like I can't decide between having a latex fetish or a flannel fetish, so I'm wearing flannel made of latex.

LMAO