Anna Nova Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 Linden Lab should set up a trained staffed Avatar Legality Checking Station in SecondLife, so people can go along and get a 'Certificate of Avatar Compliance', and then they 'seal' the shape as no-mod. I've not quite worked out how to do the last bit, but the clever moles will know. By doing this people can get some degree of confidence back. 2 8 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 people do know véry well how their avi looks and if it's OK to use. The problem is they want to find the limits, at both sides, of the lines, and go over those a bit at least. I think a station wouldn't be really helpfull... get your certificate and locking the shape wouldn't be enogh ( not just shape would to have be locked, the whole avi should have to be no modify, including clothes and skin) who would ever do that?... 7 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Nova Posted May 12 Author Share Posted May 12 I understand what you say @Alwin Alcott, and of course you are right, but the threads here and elsewhere show that there is serious disquiet at the thought that anyone can get Linden Lab to ban them just because some bigot thinks they see a sexualized minor. I have been TPed home from venues many times because they have a height ban, and my avatar is under it - when questioned they say it is to protect themselves from Linden Lab banning 'them' with the TOS. I would value something 'official' to say my avatar (but not the clothes) was within the TOS. And yes I know that's hard, but it's still worth considering. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 Just now, Anna Nova said: at the thought that anyone can get Linden Lab to ban them just because some bigot thinks they see a sexualized minor. Yes, and you are totally right that that fear is around, but LL already explained, and lets keep trust in that for now, they will not lightly ban people because of "just" a report, and look at the how and what. The denial of access is often made on wrong interpretation, but also often that owners simply don't want little people for non reason at all. The madness people get paranoia for small avatars isn't logical reasoning, but sadly something that will get worse. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 Avatars with "verified adult avatar" badges sounds like a very dystopian scenario. 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephanie Misfit Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 43 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said: people do know véry well how their avi looks and if it's OK to use. The problem is they want to find the limits, at both sides, of the lines, and go over those a bit at least. I think a station wouldn't be really helpfull... get your certificate and locking the shape wouldn't be enogh ( not just shape would to have be locked, the whole avi should have to be no modify, including clothes and skin) who would ever do that?... Yes, THANK YOU. There has been so much discussion on the countless forum threads from people who use childlike avatars, but are determined that the new policies should not apply to them. They know full well that their appearance is childlike. "Oh, but my profile says I am really a 29 year old woman, it's just a stylised anime head". It doesn't change a thing, and they know that. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorientje Woller Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 No, thanks. Would destroy my niche business of petite & slender shapes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 Before, the burden did fall on Adult regions for possibly catering to AP. Since child avatars are no longer allowed in Adult, that burden now falls on the child avatar. Region owners are still within their rights, even with some LL certified adult badge, to toss you out. Sorry but that's just not going to change. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValKalAstra Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 5 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said: people do know véry well how their avi looks and if it's OK to use. The problem is they want to find the limits, at both sides, of the lines, and go over those a bit at least. Kindly don't assume and insinuate what I want to do or don't want to do. There is confusion, on my part as well, along the edge cases (20-30 yo) because age is difficult to properly gauge, especially with the stylized look of Second Life. People are naturally spooked over the paranoia sparked by this whole affair and there's uncertainty that it might lead to needless confrontations. It's not the first time SL has had a witch hunt. However I will agree with the notion that this is not on LL to fix, because the edge cases aren't what LindenLab is targeting. Once they update their guideline into something that can be practically achieved in SL, that part will be their job done. What remains is the kicked up bee's hive of people thinking they're Chris Hansen on a mission versus people that now feel targeted and harassed over who they represent as. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starberry Passion Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 (edited) Some People are inconsiderate of so many others. What you call edge cases are not and are usually just those that just want to be • Cute • Feminine • Girly • Soft • attractive • Youthful • beautiful This follow the early and modern standard beauty idea. They are not trying to be children, they are trying to be Aphrodite like. America still pushes this ideal standard of beauty in many girls, young ladies, Women. European culture spread this standard Aphrodite-like beauty ideal to many Countries. The American standard of beauty has historically favoured being White, blue-eyed, thin, and young. It is what they grew up to see beauty, femininity as. Some never got to experience what it's like to be pretty so they go online to experience this. Aphrodite has been the symbol of beauty that has been engrained in us that it is passive to want to be very pretty. Edited May 12 by Starberry Passion 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 (edited) 6 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said: Avatars with "verified adult avatar" badges sounds like a very dystopian scenario. Scenario: "Halt! Show me your papers!" "..I don't have any papers.." "No entry! Next! Show me your papers!" "Here you are, I am verified." "What is your purpose to visit here?" "Shopping." "Where is your official badge?" "I have not been issued one yet." "In you go. Next! Show me your papers!" "Here are my papers, sir." "Everything seems in order. What is your purpose to visit here?" "I need to visit my partner at their home." "Your status does not allow a partner!" "But..but..I have an Adult avatar too.." "Irrelevant! I am close to reporting you!" "I am sorry!" "Denied! Next! Show me your papers!" "Here you go." "Your papers are in order. Purpose for visit?" "I am a courtesan, sir." "This is not allowed, you look too young even with papers. You have been reported!!" Edited May 12 by Love Zhaoying 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starberry Passion Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Scenario: "Halt! Show me your papers!" "..I don't have any papers.." "No entry! Next! Show me your papers!" "Here you are, I am verified." "What is your purpose to visit here?" "Shopping." "Where is your official badge?" "I have not been issued one yet." "In you go. Next! Show me your papers!" "Here are my papers, sir." "Everything seems in order. What is your purpose to visit here?" "I need to visit my partner at their home." "Your status does not allow a partner!" "But..but..I have an Adult avatar too.." "Irrelevant! I am close to reporting you!" "I am sorry!" "Denied! Next! Show me your papers!" "Here you go." "Your papers are in order. Purpose for visit?" "I am a courtesan, sir." "This is not allowed, you look too young even with papers. You have been reported!!" ....Monty Python but Second life version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charalyne Blackwood Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 7 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said: ....Monty Python but Second life version? I don't know..? *WHOOSH* WUUAAUUUGGHHH!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorientje Woller Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 (edited) And then complaining in another thread if it's justified that items are sold no MOD. Any idea that you sr*w over skin creators (some include a shape in their products), head creators (who include a shape with their product), shape creators themselves and everybody who is creating their own shape in SL. Besides the fact that most shapes are created, mostly, with one body brand (mine is based on Maitreya, all 5 possible versions + v-tech included ) in mind. I selling my shapes No Trans/Copy/Mod, because it gives the buyer the opportunity re-shape the body part to the body brand the user is using and she/he can resize the head towards correct porpostions to the body. Or are you going to sponsor me or any other shape creator, so they can buy all current body brands in SL, @Anna Nova? Oh, beside the topic, but which viewer are you going to take as standard of measurement? My avatar is 1.55m in the LL official viewer, Alchemy Viewer, but is 1.74m in the Firestorm viewer. Edited May 12 by Dorientje Woller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 30 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said: ....Monty Python but Second life version? I was aiming for Nazis, but forgot "patches" and sending someone "back to the ghettos". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 36 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said: This follow the early and modern standard beauty idea No, this hasn't always been the case at all. The Victorian Era liked plump, full-figured looks. The 30s-40s, again liked the curves, hourglass figure with larger breasts, even current standards (and I use that term loosely) embrace large breasts and butt. There is no Standard of what is considered feminine as it changes over time. 4 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodiac90 Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 I can't remember if it was Tommy or Keira Linden now, perhaps Tommy? But one of them mentioned at the 9/05/24 Governance meeting that they would not be commenting on specific avatars and that this is something that they would never be doing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starberry Passion Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: No, this hasn't always been the case at all. The Victorian Era liked plump, full-figured looks. The 30s-40s, again liked the curves, hourglass figure with larger breasts, even current standards (and I use that term loosely) embrace large breasts and butt. There is no Standard of what is considered feminine as it changes over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 5 minutes ago, brodiac90 said: I can't remember if it was Tommy or Keira Linden now, perhaps Tommy? But one of them mentioned at the 9/05/24 Governance meeting that they would not be commenting on specific avatars and that this is something that they would never be doing. Makes sense, too much opportunity to misuse that and make "but you said" arguments with extreme edge cases. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starberry Passion Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 What you're talking about is the middle age, where they prefered plump and plump was seen as a status. If you were plump, you had money. @Rowan Amore Thicc, juicy thighs, curviness, full figured are all African standard beauty, in general. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starberry Passion Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said: What you're talking about is the middle age, where they prefered plump and plump was seen as a status. If you were plump, you had money. @Rowan Amore Thicc, juicy thighs, curviness, full figured are all African standard beauty, in general. The difference between European Beauty standard and African beauty standard is European liked slim, still mostly prefer slim African like thicc. This goes back to Ancient Egypt. That's why European women use to bash African women about their bodies, not just because their skin but because the standard of beauty was to be thin. I am thin, irl unfortunately, but I made my avatar curvy because it's what I've been bullied about. My community always made fun of me for being thin in the school I use to go to. Before that, I went to an all European American school, where I was one fo the few African Americans, they made fun of my for being too big. I didn't think I was but it made me lose weight and I was never really able to gain any of that back. Now, today, It has changed to some degree where European American women want to inherit African beauty standards but this is mostly in America. Edited May 12 by Starberry Passion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 Interesting. Google agreed. TIL about Victorian beauty standards. What's it have to do with Second Life again? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 (edited) 1 hour ago, Starberry Passion said: You forgot this part from that article... Curves and an "hourglass figure," resembling a wasp waist, was considered the epitome of beauty. The ideal body type for women during the Victorian era was slender with a small waist and full bust, hips and buttocks. Why do you think they wore corsets? To emphasis bust, hips and behind. Not even going to address the fragile and pure part. Thinner types didn't become popular more recently until the 60s. ETA..The 20s did slim with the popularity of the flapper look...no shape, no boobs being 'in" The point being, beauty standards change with the times. Aphrodite sculptures actually show her looking somewhat masculine so it's not just body type that changes but what is considered 'feminine'. It's perfectly fine to use whatever body type you'd like but not to say so and so and such and such is some arbitrary standard by which people define feminine. This is what causes a lot of women to dislike their bodies. Edited May 12 by Rowan Amore 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starberry Passion Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 12 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Interesting. Google agreed. TIL about Victorian beauty standards. What's it have to do with Second Life again? It has nothing to do with S.L. it has everything to do with what Rowan Replied with, it's that simple.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starberry Passion Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: You forgot this part from that article... Curves and an "hourglass figure," resembling a wasp waist, was considered the epitome of beauty. The ideal body type for women during the Victorian era was slender with a small waist and full bust, hips and buttocks. Why do you think they wore corsets? To emphasis bust, hips and behind. Not even going to address the fragile and pure part. Thinner types didn't become popular more recently until the 60s. The point being, beauty standards change with the times. Aphrodite sculptures actually show her looking somewhat masculine so it's not just body type that changes but what is considered 'feminine'. It's perfectly fine to use whatever body type you'd like but not to say so and so and such and such is some arbitrary standard by which people define feminine. This is what causes a lot of women to dislike their bodies. People wore corsets for that look, yes, but that was for a status symbol mostly. If you could afford a corset, you could afford servants. It was a symbol of feminine beauty and is still apart of Victorian Fashion today. A corset stopped women from doing work, themselves. Though you have an hourglass shape, and they can enhance that but you forget You can be slim and have an hourglass shape to your body. You can be slim and have a pear shape to your body. Just because you have a certain shape doesn't mean it can't be a shape in a slim shape. Edited May 12 by Starberry Passion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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