Discuss or Comments about Child, Adult, Can't Tell Thread

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Blush Bravin said:

It is extremely difficult if not impossible for females to look mature (over 30ish) without looking over 80 in SL.

Could this be partly because in RL, we only see "some lines" (laugh lines / crow's feet, etc.) sometimes depending on the expression and lighting, but in SL we see "all lines all the time"?

 

[Blush Bravin]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

Could this be partly because in RL, we only see "some lines" (laugh lines / crow's feet, etc.) sometimes depending on the expression and lighting, but in SL we see "all lines all the time"?

 

My opinion --- it's because trying to age an avatar with skin only and not the actual sculpt doesn't work well. I think it will only work when the mesh supports the natural aging process.

[Codex Alpha]

8 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

It is extremely difficult if not impossible for females to look mature (over 30ish) without looking over 80 in SL. The mesh heads are not sculpted to look anything but youthful. The skins that are made for mature females look older than my 88 year old mother did on her deathbed. Males have it much easier. There are lots of good looking, dare I say extremely good looking, skins for mature men.

As demonstrated in my third try in that other thread, even using tattoos made to age an avatar didn't get me out of the confused area completely. At least no one thought I looked underage for sure with using the darker versions of those aging tats.

Honestly, I am dumbfounded at how many use hairstyle to determine age. But I've learned a lesson from hearing the responses, so I'm grateful because it will be playing a part when I decide to put together an outfit.

Doesn't help if your avatar has little pink ribbons, you're carrying a teddy bear and you got a Hello Kitty backpack on. Oh the Catholic School girl outfit is another clue.. oh and you're twerking in front of some other dude in an Adult area..

It's not so obscure as people want to make it out. MOST people will not have a problem, it will be the edge cases, and more CLEARER cases of CHILD AVATARS 'presenting' as 0-12 year olds, who are still saying "Mommy, can I get candy if I eat my dinner, mommy?" THE WHOLE PICTURE will be taken into consideration,

until then..

"Use your judgement. If in doubt, don't do it" - LL

[Love Zhaoying]

48 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

53 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

Well I am pretty dumb and don't know what i'm talking about, so i'm told, so that is entirely possible.

Quoted for posterity because someone has to.

Ha! I am MUCH more dumb!

Holds sign: * proof that dumb people don't have to be right ALL the time *

 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

3 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

It is extremely difficult if not impossible for females to look mature (over 30ish) without looking over 80 in SL. The mesh heads are not sculpted to look anything but youthful. The skins that are made for mature females look older than my 88 year old mother did on her deathbed. Males have it much easier. There are lots of good looking, dare I say extremely good looking, skins for mature men.

As demonstrated in my third try in that other thread, even using tattoos made to age an avatar didn't get me out of the confused area completely. At least no one thought I looked underage for sure with using the darker versions of those aging tats.

Honestly, I am dumbfounded at how many use hairstyle to determine age. But I've learned a lesson from hearing the responses, so I'm grateful because it will be playing a part when I decide to put together an outfit.

Hmm, I actually disagree with this somewhat. I think if you're going with the more popular Lelutka heads and out-of-the-box shapes that come with them (or even popular shapes and skins sold separately), I'd mostly agree, sure. Quite a few female Lel heads do get "stuck" in the early 20s, yes. 

On the other hand, if you aren't using those, aging avatars up isn't too difficult. I will say, it really, REALLY depends on "what kind of 30" (or 40, 50, etc.) you're going for. I have seen some 22-year-olds in real life who legitimately looked 40+ due to wayyyyyy too much botox and cosmetic shenanigans (oof). On the other hand, I frequently use real life models who are in their 50s to base some of my avatars on (both physical shape and fashion style), and you'd have to really stare at some of them to believe they're that old. Many look 30s.

For example, at 30, some women don't have wrinkles or anything. I sure didn't, and still don't. Many don't get that until much, much older. Hair color, well, there's dye, for one, and there are people like me who started getting gray streaks (which I call my Rogue from X-Men hair) while still in high school. So it really, really depends on what look you're aiming for. Mature is pretty easy to achieve in SL. Middle-age can be done. Elderly isn't too bad either, with the right tweaks. But sometimes, a 30 doesn't look very different at all from a 24 and a 45 just needs the right base (head choice will really matter here) and with that mindset, you can make it happen.

[Blush Bravin]

5 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

Doesn't help if your avatar has little pink ribbons, you're carrying a teddy bear and you got a Hello Kitty backpack on. Oh the Catholic School girl outfit is another clue.. oh and you're twerking in front of some other dude in an Adult area..

It's not so obscure as people want to make it out. MOST people will not have a problem, it will be the edge cases, and more CLEARER cases of CHILD AVATARS 'presenting' as 0-12 year olds, who are still saying "Mommy, can I get candy if I eat my dinner, mommy?" THE WHOLE PICTURE will be taken into consideration,

until then..

"Use your judgement. If in doubt, don't do it" - LL

Did ya even look at my avatar????? My first pics are edge cases. If you're going to respond to my post you could at least make it relevant to the pics I posted. 

[Codex Alpha]

5 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Did ya even look at my avatar????? My first pics are edge cases. If you're going to respond to my post you could at least make it relevant to the pics I posted. 

Ok, but does it suddenly negate the point I made? (which is more generalized and NOT specific to each and every single avatar and instance that people want to post)

I wonder how long this is all going to go on.. It is literally IMPOSSIBLE for LL to give us a list that will satisfy everyone...

For me,  I wouldn't bat an eye at what I see as a 'mature' shaped avatar (sans any child stuff), and would only concern myself FIRST and foremost, with OBVIOUS, clear cut cases...

But hey, I guess let people panic and act confused I suppose.. .for another 1000 pages.

[VanVox]

For me, it's primarily a person's facial features and face skin that usually causes me to question their age.

[Blush Bravin]

4 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Hmm, I actually disagree with this somewhat. I think if you're going with the more popular Lelutka heads and out-of-the-box shapes that come with them (or even popular shapes and skins sold separately), I'd mostly agree, sure. Quite a few female Lel heads do get "stuck" in the early 20s, yes. 

On the other hand, if you aren't using those, aging avatars up isn't too difficult. I will say, it really, REALLY depends on "what kind of 30" (or 40, 50, etc.) you're going for. I have seen some 22-year-olds in real life who legitimately looked 40+ due to wayyyyyy too much botox and cosmetic shenanigans (oof). On the other hand, I frequently use real life models who are in their 50s to base some of my avatars on (both physical shape and fashion style), and you'd have to really stare at some of them to believe they're that old. Many look 30s.

For example, at 30, some women don't have wrinkles or anything. I sure didn't, and still don't. Many don't get that until much, much older. Hair color, well, there's dye, for one, and there are people like me who started getting gray streaks (which I call my Rogue from X-Men hair) while still in high school. So it really, really depends on what look you're aiming for. Mature is pretty easy to achieve in SL. Middle-age can be done. Elderly isn't too bad either, with the right tweaks. But sometimes, a 30 doesn't look very different at all from a 24 and a 45 just needs the right base (head choice will really matter here) and with that mindset, you can make it happen.

I do use a Lelutka head, though I have used others in the past. I have NEVER in my 20 years of being in SL EVER used an out of the box shape. I have purposely not used the more popular Lelutka heads cause they have much more youthful sculpt than the one I'm using now.

Off topic really .. but it's a crime what plastic surgeons are doing to females these days and that the women themselves don't realize it just makes me sad.

Wrinkles are only one aspect of aging, and as you pointed out it varies greatly depending on genetics. I didn't start wrinkling until my mid 60s which is why until recently most people always guessed me to be anywhere from 15 to 20 years younger than my actual age. On the other hand, I've had jowls since my mid 20s. I've bought Izzie's jowls tats but they just aren't the same.  I've had slight laugh lines, I don't really consider those as wrinkles, since my 30s. I only started greying about four years ago and I'm 71.

So, maybe I have a hard time aging my avie because what I consider to be mature looking doesn't fit what others consider it to look like.

[Blush Bravin]

2 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

Ok, but does it suddenly negate the point I made? (which is more generalized and NOT specific to each and every single avatar and instance that people want to post)

I wonder how long this is all going to go on.. It is literally IMPOSSIBLE for LL to give us a list that will satisfy everyone...

For me,  I wouldn't bat an eye at what I see as a 'mature' shaped avatar (sans any child stuff), and would only concern myself FIRST and foremost, with OBVIOUS, clear cut cases...

But hey, I guess let people panic and act confused I suppose.. .for another 1000 pages.

This discussion to me is so much more than just .. JUST .. will LL find me at fault. I don't think the Lab will, far from it. 

When you respond consistently trying to make your point instead of actually listening to what people are discussing, it invalidates your points. I think you'd find a much more welcoming response if you weren't just trying to push your point of view. I say that will all due respect. 

I'm asking and discussing this not because I fear an outcome: but more seriously, I want my avatar to present to others as the age I desire them to see me as.

[taya Maruti]

if its skin then yea it would be hard to tell on mine since i use a flat skin texture i created my self having little to no art skills, my avitar is a mix of different parts but its an orange husky, with a bit of hu-cow mixing, the spots are an outfit not part of it,  the current body i am  using is pretty old was made before fitmesh and was only updated a little bit in 2022, so shape sliders do verry little for it, its shiny cause i found that an oily specular helped to give it a fur look when you had good enough settings, somthing photo's cannot capture well, the head is katzen tyger with the cow nose mod, if you meet many furs that have been around for long enough you will find that not every avitar uses exact matching components to their species, and are often highly customized and  unique.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

3 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I do use a Lelutka head, though I have used others in the past. I have NEVER in my 20 years of being in SL EVER used an out of the box shape. I have purposely not used the more popular Lelutka heads cause they have much more youthful sculpt than the one I'm using now.

I found it so, so so, sososososososo difficult to use a Lel female head for my human avatars. I just didn't like the "frozen at 21" look whatsoever, and some of them are rather rigid on the sliders and extremely difficult to break out of that range. I think I've demo'd almost all of them, and while I'm okay using some for fantasy avatars, I just can't do human. For those, I use Catwa for my standard 30s+ looks (more flexible on the sliders and they age with less effort), Bespoke (for 50s and older), and I've had some decent luck with Akeruka for young 30s. For male avatars, though, Lel is great. I've yet to have an issue making avies in their 30s with those.

 

6 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Off topic really .. but it's a crime what plastic surgeons are doing to females these days and that the women themselves don't realize it just makes me sad.

I agree with you so much on this. I wish I could post the photo of that girl I was talking about (I forget who she is now, but I saw her on a show a few weeks back). Very naturally pretty, but she had those lip injections and her cheeks were just blown out and yeah...damn shame. When I Googled and saw her listed at age 22, I gasped.

 

9 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

So, maybe I have a hard time aging my avie because what I consider to be mature looking doesn't fit what others consider it to look like

Possibly. I tend to look at a lot of photos of celebrities, models, and regular men and women when styling my avatars. Now obviously, there may be plastic surgery involved with some of them, but I try to look for common features. For example, I'll browse photos of Grace Jones, Missy Elliott, Björk (where a ton of my fashion inspo comes from), Billy Porter, Halle Berry, Lenny Kravitz, Prince, browse runway and fashion models, look at older men and women in ads and on blogs, look at people on YouTube, etc. If I see common features in an age group (like prominent cheekbones, for example), I'll work that into my look.

I agree with what you said about needing some features to be baked into the mesh, though. That helps SO much. My Bespoke head is that way (wrinkles and lines are part of the head, not the skin), and that's why I can use it for avatars much older than I typically aim for. Genus also does this now in their male line. I'm HOPING they do something like their Classic M002 for women (check it out - it's seriously gorgeous) because I'd snatch that up in a heartbeat. I LIKE creating mature avatars.

[Roxy Couturier]

7 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

The darker the hair is, the older I look?

I replaced the hair with one that's a bit less cute and added a lipstick.

Else, it is identical to the picture with bows. Same skin, freckles and blush. The brows is tinted darker in the last image

 

fyi, it wasn't the hair or freckles or outfit. All of those were noted, but ultimately had nothing to do with the opinion I formed.

That being said, the darker lipstick (imo) does add some maturity. I'd be interested in seeing the previous hair with the darker lipstick, as the first image in this post pushed my opinion to 'fully adult'.

[Roxy Couturier]

1 hour ago, taya Maruti said:

if its skin then yea it would be hard to tell on mine since i use a flat skin texture i created my self having little to no art skills, my avitar is a mix of different parts but its an orange husky, with a bit of hu-cow mixing, the spots are an outfit not part of it,  the current body i am  using is pretty old was made before fitmesh and was only updated a little bit in 2022, so shape sliders do verry little for it, its shiny cause i found that an oily specular helped to give it a fur look when you had good enough settings, somthing photo's cannot capture well, the head is katzen tyger with the cow nose mod, if you meet many furs that have been around for long enough you will find that not every avitar uses exact matching components to their species, and are often highly customized and  unique.

It's not the skin. it's the over all shape, including the face. No, I'm not a furry, but just because a part is -called- feline, when you mod it with a cow nose, that shape becomes a cow. With a foreshortened head, it looks, ultimately -like- a calf. Calf head, bare, non-existent  breasts and chubby baby legs in a diaper puts this even further into way too young for kink play territory.

[taya Maruti]

11 minutes ago, Roxy Couturier said:

It's not the skin. it's the over all shape, including the face. No, I'm not a furry, but just because a part is -called- feline, when you mod it with a cow nose, that shape becomes a cow. With a foreshortened head, it looks, ultimately -like- a calf. Calf head, bare, non-existent  breasts and chubby baby legs in a diaper puts this even further into way too young for kink play territory.

some one else mentioned the skin and mentioned skins for other avatars.

that happens to be a standard when you look up cow head either you get ultra realistic head or you get somthing like what i have.

chubby baby legs i will have to remember that when i see those huge hip avtars running around with avatars like this.

 

shape wise the only difference i see besides the human head is the breasts and the hips are just a little thicker than what i have at full body thickness 100%, without the thick slider at max on the avitar i use the arms are way to skinny and so is the core, the chest mods for this body have even fiewer compatible outfits than default, the cost of not using maitreya however miatrey does not allow for customization on the level that I prefer.

[Monika Skydancer]

2 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

My first pics are edge cases.

I don't think they are. I look at those pics & I'm seeing a college sophomore.

[Roxy Couturier]

3 hours ago, taya Maruti said:

some one else mentioned the skin and mentioned skins for other avatars.

that happens to be a standard when you look up cow head either you get ultra realistic head or you get somthing like what i have.

chubby baby legs i will have to remember that when i see those huge hip avtars running around with avatars like this.

 

shape wise the only difference i see besides the human head is the breasts and the hips are just a little thicker than what i have at full body thickness 100%, without the thick slider at max on the avitar i use the arms are way to skinny and so is the core, the chest mods for this body have even fiewer compatible outfits than default, the cost of not using maitreya however miatrey does not allow for customization on the level that I prefer.

These aren't the same thing; the models head is adult in proportion; she has breasts, not bee stings; she isn't wearing a diaper; her hairstyle doesn't say pre-teen curls.

If she appeared with a childs head in proportion with a childish hair style, if she had on a diaper with bee sting boobs, then you might have a comparison.

Chubby thighs aesthetic aside, that models overall appearance is adult. In my opinion, yours (the overall appearance) is not.

But-what-aboutisms aside, of course carry on as you are if you want.. not my circus.

In any case, I've exhausted my cares and I won't be responding to any more what-about's.

[Love Zhaoying]

5 hours ago, taya Maruti said:

if its skin then yea it would be hard to tell on mine since i use a flat skin texture i created my self having little to no art skills, my avitar is a mix of different parts but its an orange husky, with a bit of hu-cow mixing, the spots are an outfit not part of it,  the current body i am  using is pretty old was made before fitmesh and was only updated a little bit in 2022, so shape sliders do verry little for it, its shiny cause i found that an oily specular helped to give it a fur look when you had good enough settings, somthing photo's cannot capture well, the head is katzen tyger with the cow nose mod, if you meet many furs that have been around for long enough you will find that not every avitar uses exact matching components to their species, and are often highly customized and  unique.

Child or adult, with those boobs hanging out, you won't be allowed around children in most cases..

[SlammedSam]

8 hours ago, Chery Amore said:

I rated her an adult... and it was because of the dress. No modern teen would be wearing that dress. Otherwise I'd refer to her profile if I were curious or just mind my own business.

Thanks! Though there's also mid century RP to consider, especially with the car. ^^ But then, the sci-fi background sorta blows a hole in that. XD That said, said dress also accentuates what I'd think most would think adult hips?

And yes, one would also think profiles provide some degree of context as well. That being said, I think for pretty much all of us, common sense should rule the day.

[taya Maruti]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Child or adult, with those boobs hanging out, you won't be allowed around children in most cases..

you are implying this is an always outfit and not one that i am just required to wear for the time being.

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, taya Maruti said:

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Child or adult, with those boobs hanging out, you won't be allowed around children in most cases..

you are implying this is an always outfit and not one that i am just required to wear for the time being.

Sorry, don't understand. 

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, taya Maruti said:

you are implying this is an always outfit and not one that i am just required to wear for the time being.

It doesn't matter what you might wear at another time or in another place. We are evaluating this picture only.

"Oh, but normally I'm a modest old church lady", doesn't mean anything.

[Kathlen Onyx]

Not sure who came up with discussing specific pictures that are in another thread but personally I think it sucks.  It's way too hard to follow what picture you are talking about. 

[Monika Skydancer]

2 hours ago, taya Maruti said:

you are implying this is an always outfit and not one that i am just required to wear for the time being.

Don't really matter if you're required to wear it or not (you ain't). I'd say your avi def looks child like. The outfit don't help but I think, looking like that, everyone's gonna say "child like" whatever you're wearing.

[Blush Bravin]

39 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

Not sure who came up with discussing specific pictures that are in another thread but personally I think it sucks.  It's way too hard to follow what picture you are talking about. 

While I didn't come up with the idea to start a thread for discussion, I am very happy that this one was made. I very much DID NOT want ANY discussion in the thread I started for more than one reason. The most important reason though was to keep comments out of the thread which could impact how someone perceived the age of the avatars in question. The whole point was to have a first impression reaction without explanation of any kind. So blame me. I'm big; I can take it.  

FWIW, I have been going back and forth between threads. It's a little bit of a bother, but in the end, I think it's worth the little bit of extra effort. 

Edited May 14 by Blush Bravin