So what changed in the Terms of Service?

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Coffee Pancake said:

Children's beauty pageants are a thing. A day time TV thing. "sexualize" is far to broad a term to have any practical application.

I am absolutely against those and think that needs to be an adult activity only. I am sorry, but I feel that is very exploitative of children. 

[Youri Ashton]

1 minute ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I don't think adding a modesty bit limits how you can express yourself at all. 

This is exactly why I posted my message.
This new ToS update will limit people in their freedom, not enrich it.

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 minute ago, Youri Ashton said:

This is exactly why I posted my message.
This new ToS update will limit people in their freedom, not enrich it.

How? 

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I am absolutely against those and think that needs to be an adult activity only. I am sorry, but I feel that is very exploitative of children. 

 .. the rules say 5 is banned, that means 4.9 is OK, half of today's posts have been about how 3 shouldn't be allowed.

[Vivienne Schell]

1 minute ago, Youri Ashton said:

.Linden Lab please do not punish everyone based on what a few are doing. Punish the right individuals instead.

Besides that i do not wish to see child avis banned completely: Get real. Child Avi Pilots are a tiny minority, not "everyone". And the new ToS isn´t a "punishment", but the attempt to keep the tiny minority going. If Linden Lab would want to "punish", Child Avis would be banned from entire SL now.

[Codex Alpha]

14 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Simple because it's like the boy who cried wolf. It will get to the point, that people will wonder if they mean the actual thing or whatever this is. 

Yes, it loses it's proper weight and creepiness factor, as the term 'pedophile'  has a very specific usage and description.

But of course, no one reads anything around here, and their grasp of the English language is loose and wide at the best of times, and frequently mis-used, hence all the confusion in this topic.

[ErwinVonVlotho]

1 minute ago, Youri Ashton said:

This is exactly why I posted my message.
This new ToS update will limit people in their freedom, not enrich it.

The only things it limits are being nude or going to adult land as a child avatar. Do you have a problem with those limits? If so, why?

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Sammy Huntsman said:

1 minute ago, Youri Ashton said:

This is exactly why I posted my message.
This new ToS update will limit people in their freedom, not enrich it.

How? 

Maybe the new required "underwear" is binding, so you feel confined?
* Waves Sign * "Put the FREE back in FREE-BALLING!"

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Children's beauty pageants are a thing. A day time TV thing. "sexualize" is far to broad a term to have any practical application.

The rules prohibit nudity, accessing adult locations, engaging in or actively soliciting sexual activity, that's the line.

Everything up to that line must be ok, and that's going to include a lot of stuff some will object to.

Again, I agree.  It's for LL to determine exactly what the rules are and they are currently exactly as you stated them.

I did state in an earlier post that you responded to that

29 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

In my personal opinion I think there is nothing wrong with wanting to roleplay as a child or teen in SL, but I draw the line at people roleplaying as a child "trying to be an adult".

(bolding mine)

but I probably should have made it more clear that I was still speaking from that position, rather than attempting to explain the current TOS, sorry!

 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Codex Alpha said:

Yes, it loses it's proper weight and creepiness factor, as the term 'pedophile'  has a very specific usage and description.

At least it isn't as specific as "pederast".  

It could ALWAYS be worse. I think.

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

32 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

In my personal opinion I think there is nothing wrong with wanting to roleplay as a child or teen in SL, but I draw the line at people roleplaying as a child "trying to be an adult".

(bolding mine)

but I probably should have made it more clear that I was still speaking from that position, rather than attempting to explain the current TOS, sorry!

That is unfortunately part of the problem with the new TOS, one can only explain it according to one's personal opinion / interpretation, thus the need for all the FAQ's.

[Youri Ashton]

Just now, ErwinVonVlotho said:

The only things it limits are being nude or going to adult land as a child avatar. Do you have a problem with those limits? If so, why?

I didn't state child avi's should be naked, I just tried to make clear LL should take on abusers of child avi's, not those that just wish to role play in a more fair way. It never was a bad thing, why should it suddenly have changed? Now again, the pedo thing should be punished. Running around naked in adult sims while using a child avi, of course this shouldn't be allowed.

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

Maybe the new required "underwear" is binding, so you feel confined?
* Waves Sign * "Put the FREE back in FREE-BALLING!"

Free-baling? what is that? Could you please explain?

[Madi Melodious]

1 hour ago, Chery Amore said:

I've decided I like her ... but I don't want to be on her bad side!

You have yet have her try to frame you by saying you said something or did something when you clearly didn't.    I find it best to just ignore her. 

[Codex Alpha]

7 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

sexualize" is far to broad a term to have any practical application.

 

Ughh.. here we go, let's argue the definitions of words that have been clearly defined and agreed upon, and most people know what it means. Coffee is usually more insightful and intelligent than this, even if we rarely agree on things, this is bothersome to me. Come on.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Youri Ashton said:

5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Maybe the new required "underwear" is binding, so you feel confined?
* Waves Sign * "Put the FREE back in FREE-BALLING!"

Free-baling? what is that? Could you please explain?

Only by saying, IYKYK.

[Codex Alpha]

7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

At least it isn't as specific as "pederast".  

It could ALWAYS be worse. I think.

Better look it up, both have very specific meanings. It's the power of words, but gees talk to a community online and somehow they don't even know what words mean.

As people can tell by now, I find words very important, and how we use them is important. If we can't communicate to someone else properly, and they understand the words used, we are lost..

"Sky was plus plus good!" != "The amber sunset, with the light dandelion yellowing of the sun, touched by the tint of green dragonflies light in their flight, was a sight that brought even the most heart-hardened to tears that day"

Edited May 7 by Codex Alpha

[Youri Ashton]

4 minutes ago, ErwinVonVlotho said:

The only things it limits are being nude or going to adult land as a child avatar. Do you have a problem with those limits? If so, why?

If you happen to be nude in your own home in order to change clothes or figure out what outfit you might want. This is still a reason for people to abuse the ToS and report you, it happened before and it will happen again. There are some real vile people out there that love t cause trouble where there shouldn't be any.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Codex Alpha said:

11 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

sexualize" is far to broad a term to have any practical application.

 

Ughh.. here we go, let's argue the definitions of words that have been clearly defined and agreed upon, and most people know what it means. Coffee is usually more insightful and intelligent than this, even if we rarely agree on things, this is bothersome to me. Come on.

She did acknowledge the beauty pageants, which is a symptom of the issue.

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

That is unfortunately part of the problem with the new TOS, one can only explain it according to one's personal opinion / interpretation, thus the need for all the FAQ's.

Well I wasn't really thinking in terms of the TOS to be honest, it was my own personal opinion on where the line is for me, I fully accept that said line will vary according to the individual and isn't representative of LL's current TOS.

[Youri Ashton]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Only by saying, IYKYK.

By saying random things doesn't mean I will understand easier, now you have 2 things to explain.

[Vivienne Schell]

1 minute ago, Youri Ashton said:

If you happen to be nude in your own home in order to change clothes or figure out what outfit you might want. This is still a reason for people to abuse the ToS and report you, it happened before and it will happen again. There are some real vile people out there that love t cause trouble where there shouldn't be any.

There will be no trouble like that if you follow the new ToS.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

That is unfortunately part of the problem with the new TOS, one can only explain it according to one's personal opinion / interpretation, thus the need for all the FAQ's.

Well I wasn't really thinking in terms of the TOS to be honest, it was my own personal opinion on where the line is for me, I fully accept that said line will vary according to the individual and isn't representative of LL's current TOS.

Cool. I was just taking what you said, and explaining how it indeed applies to the topic 🙂

 

[ErwinVonVlotho]

4 minutes ago, Youri Ashton said:

I didn't state child avi's should be naked, I just tried to make clear LL should take on abusers of child avi's, not those that just wish to role play in a more fair way. It never was a bad thing, why should it suddenly have changed? Now again, the pedo thing should be punished. Running around naked in adult sims while using a child avi, of course this shouldn't be allowed.

So you agree that child avis shouldn't be naked, and you agree that child avis shouldn't be on adult sims.

Those are exactly the things the TOS update bans, so why do you have a problem with it? What kinds of roleplay do you think will be restricted by the new rules?

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Youri Ashton said:

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Only by saying, IYKYK.

By saying random things doesn't mean I will understand easier, now you have 2 things to explain.

"IYKYK" is an acronym which stands for, "if you know, you know".  The meaning of this is, "if you already know, then you understand".

"Free-balling" is a colloquial/slang term meaning, "without underwear" (applied to males).

 

[Coffee Pancake]

3 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

Ughh.. here we go, let's argue the definitions of words that have been clearly defined and agreed upon, and most people know what it means. Coffee is usually more insightful and intelligent than this, even if we rarely agree on things, this is bothersome to me. Come on.

It's a deeply subjective term, it does not have an agreed up, codified in the rules meaning.

At the end of the day, the ToS is what matters and that needs to be as cut and dry as possible. The FAQ can help to pad that out with guidance, but it is only guidance and can't cover all cases.

Quoting myself here ..

11 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

 .. the rules say 5 is banned, that means 4.9 is OK, half of today's posts have been about how 3 shouldn't be allowed.

No one liked "nude family beaches". But they lasted and survived because they were allowed under the rules.