Cain Maven Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Today, I received an email from Linden Lab's payment processing company, Tilia. It said that I was "eligible" for a 1099-K form, but they did not have a Social Security Number on file. (For those of you outside the US, a 1099-K is a tax form issued when someone pays you more than a certain amount. The SSN is your personal identification number and therefore sensitive.) The message then went on to say: So that we may issue you your 1099-k form, please reply to this email with your full social security number. Yes. They actually requested that I send my SSN over email, security risk be damned. I examined the email headers, which looked fine (famous last words, I know) but I am obviously not prepared to email my SSN under any circumstances, so I replied to that effect. I also tried calling them, but there is no way of reaching an actual person. Tilia's response: For your security and to fulfill this request, we have reset your Know Your Customer application and ask that you re-submit your Identity Verification once more. This form is cleverly hidden on the Process Credit dashboard page, so I had to contact SL support to find it. Now that I have resubmitted the information -- and I'm positive I had provided it earlier -- Tilia seems to be content. However, I am not impressed. A company that deals with sensitive personal information such as real names, addresses and SSNs needs to have its security act together. Asking people to provide sensitive information via email is not good enough. Not by a long shot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 (edited) Are you sure that this isn't a phishing mail you got? I would contact support on that one when in doubt. Edited February 7 by Sid Nagy 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cain Maven Posted February 7 Author Share Posted February 7 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said: Are you sure that this isn't a phishing mail you got? I would contact support on that one when in doubt. Yes, I did contact support and they confirmed that the email was legitimate -- in the sense that it was actually sent by Tilia. Which never should have happened. Edited February 7 by Cain Maven 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, Cain Maven said: A company that deals with sensitive personal information such as real names, addresses and SSNs needs to have its security act together. Asking people to provide sensitive information via email is not good enough. Not by a long shot. I totally agree on that. This should not be done via email. But it happens. Not only with Tilia. Some companies never learn, or very slow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modulated Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 (edited) Disregard, sorry. Edited February 7 by Modulated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 (edited) 2 hours ago, Cain Maven said: Today, I received an email from Linden Lab's payment processing company, Tilia. It said that I was "eligible" for a 1099-K form, but they did not have a Social Security Number on file. (For those of you outside the US, a 1099-K is a tax form issued when someone pays you more than a certain amount. The SSN is your personal identification number and therefore sensitive.) The message then went on to say: So that we may issue you your 1099-k form, please reply to this email with your full social security number. Yes. They actually requested that I send my SSN over email, security risk be damned. I examined the email headers, which looked fine (famous last words, I know) but I am obviously not prepared to email my SSN under any circumstances, so I replied to that effect. I also tried calling them, but there is no way of reaching an actual person. Tilia's response: For your security and to fulfill this request, we have reset your Know Your Customer application and ask that you re-submit your Identity Verification once more. This form is cleverly hidden on the Process Credit dashboard page, so I had to contact SL support to find it. Now that I have resubmitted the information -- and I'm positive I had provided it earlier -- Tilia seems to be content. However, I am not impressed. A company that deals with sensitive personal information such as real names, addresses and SSNs needs to have its security act together. Asking people to provide sensitive information via email is not good enough. Not by a long shot. Most places will never ask for that kind of information through an email.. Also, if Tilla is sending you a 1099 K, that means that you will be getting a 1099 Misc from LL more than likely.. A 1099 misc is your actual earning from where you made the money.. a 1099 k is the same money but more a 3rd party 1099,which means they had to handle that money as well.. It would be like getting a 1099k from paypal.. only they will have all your dealings from where ever you made money and had it go through them, in one 1099k.. But you would still get a 1099 misc from each of those place that you made enough money to generate a 1099misc.. Basically, where ever that income has taken a bounce, before getting to your bank, it will generate a 1099k, because they have to account for handling that money as well.. If what you made in SL was straight from the cash out and right to your bank, you would only generate a 1099 misc.. Basically a 1099k is from a 3rd party handler of that money.. If you incur charges during the handling of that money on the way to your bank, That's an expense which you can deduct from your income.. Edited February 8 by Ceka Cianci 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cain Maven Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 7 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said: Most places will never ask for that kind of information through an email.. Also, if Tilla is sending you a 1099 K, that means that you will be getting a 1099 Misc from LL more than likely.. Right -- having done this for a while now, I'm somewhat familiar with the various tax forms My issue is not with he issuance of the form but with the fact that Tilia requested sensitive information over email, which is a huge no-no. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Mommy Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 I am surprised they do not have a secure web form or other means of providing this information. I deal with SSNs at work all the time and we end nearly every email with a reminder not to send that or other sensitive info over email. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 5 minutes ago, Cain Maven said: Right -- having done this for a while now, I'm somewhat familiar with the various tax forms My issue is not with he issuance of the form but with the fact that Tilia requested sensitive information over email, which is a huge no-no. The 1099k's are kind of new, so I figured I better go into my routine.. hehehe But ya, there has to be a more secure way to give them your Social SECURITY number.. They need it more than you need to give it to them.. your income is still gonna come out square If you're getting 1099misc from LL..You would think they could get it from them since they seem to be handle the financial end of things for LL.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cain Maven Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 1 minute ago, Dragon Mommy said: I am surprised they do not have a secure web form or other means of providing this information. I deal with SSNs at work all the time and we end nearly every email with a reminder not to send that or other sensitive info over email. In fairness, the form under the Process Credit tab appears to be secure, and that's where I eventually submitted the information. But that's not what Tilia asked me to do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaylinbridges Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said: Also, if Tilla is sending you a 1099 K, that means that you will be getting a 1099 Misc from LL more than likely Why would LL issue anyone a 1099 Misc? Lindens are not considered currency and any linden to linden transactions are not taxable, and would have no reason to generate a 1099 Misc. Of course if you are a part-time contractor working for LL, and they pay you in USD, then a 1099 Misc might be possible. The only 1099-K would come from Tilia when you do a process credit to an external processor like paypal. The minimum to generate a 1099-K from the IRS is $5000 USD for 2024. LL has not said what dollar amount they will use to send you a 1099-K this year. But the new minimum is $5000, not $600, as the IRS has delayed that foolish law for another year. Taxing all the poor people with a side business, or selling your parents stuff on eBay to cover your rent, and getting taxed on it, would not be popular during an election year. https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-announces-2023-form-1099-k-reporting-threshold-delay-for-third-party-platform-payments-plans-for-a-5000-threshold-in-2024-to-phase-in-implementation?utm_source=Iterable&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=campaign_8497682 Edited February 8 by Jaylinbridges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 15 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said: Why would LL issue anyone a 1099 Misc? Lindens are not considered currency and any linden to linden transactions are not taxable, and would have no reason to generate a 1099 Misc. Of course if you are a part-time contractor working for LL, and they pay you in USD, then a 1099 Misc might be possible. The only 1099-K would come from Tilia when you do a process credit to an external processor like paypal. The minimum to generate a 1099-K from the IRS is $5000 USD for 2024. LL has not said what dollar amount they will use to send you a 1099-K this year. But the new minimum is $5000, not $600, as the IRS has delayed that foolish law for another year. Taxing all the poor people with a side business, or selling your parents stuff on eBay to cover your rent, and getting taxed on it, would not be popular during an election year. The info is necessary for those who "cash out". That is considered earned income therefore a 1099 is necessary. https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-1099-misc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaylinbridges Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 5 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said: The info is necessary for those who "cash out". That is considered earned income therefore a 1099 is necessary. https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-1099-misc None of that applies to "cashing out" from SL via Tilia. That is Form 1099-K, and $5K applies for this year, and $20K applies for 2023 income. Now if you won that new car from the SL20B rafffle from SL, I guess they will send you a 1099-Misc since it was a gift over $600. Who won that car btw? Quote What this means This means that for 2023 and prior years, payment apps and online marketplaces are only required to send out Forms 1099-K to taxpayers who receive over $20,000 and have over 200 transactions. For tax year 2024, the IRS plans for a threshold of $5,000 to phase in reporting requirements. This phased-in approach will allow the agency to review its operational processes to better address taxpayer and stakeholder concerns. Taxpayers should be aware that while the reporting threshold remains over $20,000 and 200 transactions for 2023, companies could still issue the form for any amount. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 39 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said: Why would LL issue anyone a 1099 Misc? Lindens are not considered currency and any linden to linden transactions are not taxable, and would have no reason to generate a 1099 Misc. Of course if you are a part-time contractor working for LL, and they pay you in USD, then a 1099 Misc might be possible. The only 1099-K would come from Tilia when you do a process credit to an external processor like paypal. The minimum to generate a 1099-K from the IRS is $5000 USD for 2024. LL has not said what dollar amount they will use to send you a 1099-K this year. But the new minimum is $5000, not $600, as the IRS has delayed that foolish law for another year. Taxing all the poor people with a side business, or selling your parents stuff on eBay to cover your rent, and getting taxed on it, would not be popular during an election year. https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-announces-2023-form-1099-k-reporting-threshold-delay-for-third-party-platform-payments-plans-for-a-5000-threshold-in-2024-to-phase-in-implementation?utm_source=Iterable&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=campaign_8497682 Tilla doesn't run the exchange LL does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 12 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said: None of that applies to "cashing out" from SL via Tilia. That is Form 1099-K, and $5K applies for this year, and $20K applies for 2023 income. Now if you won that new car from the SL20B rafffle from SL, I guess they will send you a 1099-Misc since it was a gift over $600. Who won that car btw? You would get a 1099k from a 3rd party who has handled the money.. You would get a 1099 misc from LL and a 1099k from Tilla or pay pal or from where ever that money settled or bounced from after it became income.. It goes from the exchange cash out which will generate a 1099 misc then to tilla which will generate a 1099k.. From the IRS. Form 1099-K is a report of payments you got for goods or services during the year from: Credit, debit or stored value cards such as gift cards (payment cards) Payment apps or online marketplaces, also called third party settlement organizations or TPSOs These organizations are required to fill out Form 1099K and send copies to the IRS and to you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaylinbridges Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said: Tilla doesn't run the exchange LL does Tillia is a separate business from SL, and all financial transactions are processed by Tilia, even if LL is the umbrella company for Tilia. SL is a part of LL, but they have no business in real currency. The 1099-K comes from Tilia, and not SL or LL. Neither LL, or SL or Tilia will issue a1099-Misc forms for cashing out from Tilia. A 1099-K form was the what the OP was getting his SSN request for. SInce the minimum cash out amount for last year was still $20,000 USD per the IRS for issuing a 1099-K, and they claim the OP was eligible to receive a 1099-K, he must have a successful SL business, or won the best jackpot ever in SL. Edited February 8 by Jaylinbridges 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaylinbridges Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said: It goes from the exchange cash out which will generate a 1099 misc then to tilla which will generate a 1099k.. Selling lindens on the exchange to generate Tilia dollars does not generate a 1099-Misc.. Tilia issues only 1099-K as you stated. Tilia dollars remain untaxed and hidden until they are sent via a process credit to a bank or PayPal. No IRS forms are generated by keeping Tilia Dollars in your account, OR by selling lindens on the exchange for Tilia Dollars. As to who operates the exchange, Tilia probably does, not sure it makes much difference, it's all just LL software. It's powered by Tilia, whatever that means. LindeX™ Exchange: Transaction History Edited February 8 by Jaylinbridges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cain Maven Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 At the risk of flogging a deceased equine: Whether it's issued a K or a MISC or both is not really the root of my concern. The fact that Tilia requests sensitive information via email is -- and I personally think we should demand better from a company that touches so many of our livelihoods. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 12 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said: None of that applies to "cashing out" from SL via Tilia. That is Form 1099-K, and $5K applies for this year, and $20K applies for 2023 income. Now if you won that new car from the SL20B rafffle from SL, I guess they will send you a 1099-Misc since it was a gift over $600. Who won that car btw? Oh, but it does apply. Just ask LL. If it didn't LL/Tilia wouldn't bother with any 1099s. Nor would any other business required by law to file them. Quote A payment settlement entity (PSE) must file Form 1099-K for payments made in settlement of reportable payment transactions for each calendar year. See the bolded part? That is aka cashing out. How should I know who won the car? I didn't even enter the contest because I can't afford the damn thing and would have to sell it immediately. 8 hours ago, Cain Maven said: At the risk of flogging a deceased equine: Whether it's issued a K or a MISC or both is not really the root of my concern. The fact that Tilia requests sensitive information via email is -- and I personally think we should demand better from a company that touches so many of our livelihoods. Oh I know. Believe me I know. As someone who has been in the accoun6ting field a few decades that first thing I would have done after receiving that email is get on the phone with HQ and start chewing some butt for risking my ID and finances. Once you've had your ID stolen you don't eff around. My apologies for going off on a related siderail. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 12 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said: Tillia is a separate business from SL, and all financial transactions are processed by Tilia, even if LL is the umbrella company for Tilia. SL is a part of LL, but they have no business in real currency. The 1099-K comes from Tilia, and not SL or LL. Neither LL, or SL or Tilia will issue a1099-Misc forms for cashing out from Tilia. A 1099-K form was the what the OP was getting his SSN request for. SInce the minimum cash out amount for last year was still $20,000 USD per the IRS for issuing a 1099-K, and they claim the OP was eligible to receive a 1099-K, he must have a successful SL business, or won the best jackpot ever in SL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaylinbridges Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 3 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said: Oh, but it does apply. Just ask LL. If it didn't LL/Tilia wouldn't bother with any 1099s. Nor would any other business required by law to file them. Sigh Tilia issues a 1099-K form upon a process credit IF the amount is over some non-disclosed amount each year. That is it. They do NOT issue 1099-Misc. You are simply wrong about that There is no such thing as a 1099s form, so stop being vague to convince yourself you are right. I already said Tilia is owned by LL since LL is the umbrella company. You failed to read everything I said. I can copy and paste LL boxes too, but I simply put it in my own words. How many process transfers and 1099-K forms have you received from Tilia? Experience counts you know. I am done repeating myself in this thread. /SK Edited February 8 by Jaylinbridges 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modulated Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 8 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said: Sigh Tilia issues a 1099-K form upon a process credit IF the amount is over some non-disclosed amount each year. That is it. They do NOT issue 1099-Misc. You are simply wrong about that There is no such thing as a 1099s form, so stop being vague to convince yourself you are right. I already said Tilia is owned by LL since LL is the umbrella company. You failed to read everything I said. I can copy and paste LL boxes too, but I simply put it in my own words. How many process transfers and 1099-K forms have you received from Tilia? Experience counts you know. I am done repeating myself in this thread. /SK There is a 1099s, just not sure it's used as far as SL is concerned, maybe? IDK. https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-1099-s 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaylinbridges Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 4 minutes ago, Modulated said: There is a 1099s, just not sure it's used as far as SL is concerned, maybe? IDK. Yes that is for real estate transactions. I have used that form in the past. But there is not 1099s or 1099's form, since the plural punctuation was missing in her post. She was trying to clump a 1099-Misc and 1099-K in to general 1099's to avoid being wrong. I once owned a commodities trading firm. I know too much about tax law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 What is a Form 1099-K? Why would I receive one from Linden Lab, and when? This form is used to report to the IRS the gross proceeds earned from L$ sales transactions in a calendar year. Linden Lab is required to file this form for US residents who reach certain transaction thresholds. For U.S. residents with 200 or more L$ sale transactions with a total amount of gross proceeds in excess of $20,000 in a calendar year, we are required to file a Form 1099-K with the IRS reporting those transactions for that year. Who sends Form 1099-K Payment card companies, payment apps and online marketplaces are required to fill out Form 1099-K and send it to the IRS each year. They must also send a copy to you by January 31. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 11 hours ago, Cain Maven said: The fact that Tilia requests sensitive information via email is -- and I personally think we should demand better from a company that touches so many of our livelihoods. What would you prefer, a fax? Mailing them the info? They need it for the aforementioned tax forms. Ya sell enough stuff, ya pay (or at least report it for) taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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