Land Sales Crash

[Clem Marques]

33 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Multiple times I would be navigating through a channel that seemed clear only to hit some 0 sec orb that extended well into the waterway that then sent me directly home

Seemed to be clear. Doesn't mean it was. If the waterway is not protected, LL-owned land, you are not entitled to sail there. If the waterway is open and accessible despite being owned by a resident, it is that way due to the parcel owner's kindness and nothing more.

33 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

All because some self entitled dipsh*t who never came inworld anyway was trying to protect his water rights?

Or the "self entitled dipsh*t" trying to sail through the owner's land uninvited. I am not calling you that, but showing that this argument could be made from the other person's perspective too. Don't judge and call people names like that, they are well within their rights to have a security orb in their parcel if they wish. Though I understand that a 0 second orb could be seen as unreasonable, it is within TOS as long as it stays within the parcel boundaries.

33 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

SO I examined myself and came to the conclusion that the waterfront home, the boat was all just a waste of money and the waterway touring a lie about what can be done in S/L.

Always buy or rent protected waterfront if sailing is the intention. Anything else: There is absolutely no guarantee you will be able to sail at all. Unfortunate but true.

Edited January 19 by Clem Marques
Added an explanation

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 hour ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

In 2022 I spent 628 hours travelling the SL continents via air, land, and water.  In all that time, the total number of banlines I ran into was 3, the total number of 0-seconf orbs i hit, was also 3 (ironically all 3 of them were in Bellisseria lol).

Last year, 2023, I spent 586 hours doing the same thing.  Total banlines I ran into , 3.  Total 0-second orbs i hit, one, yes, just one single 0-second orb.

The standard response i usually get when imparting this bit of info is "you're lucky". 

In another thread a while back, I read a post from a whining habitual trespasser, screaming about how it was "impossible to fly more than a couple of regions without being griefed by evil home owners".

I responded by describing my recent flight, from Ahab's Haunt, south west-ish down to the Gulf of Admirals, east along the north coast of Atlantean Nautilus, south past the mouth of the Atlantean Canal, west along the south coast of Atlantean Nautilus, south along the west coast of Satori, cutting across into the newly built but still unoccupied Belli Marina area at Stromberg, south to the other Satorian crossing and back north overland to south central Satori.

I pointed out that I had only been accosted by TWO orbs, both of the old "llSensor based spherical scan" type that spam warnings at people outside the parcel they protect.

 

In response one of the fanatically vehicular pro-trespass ranters claimed that I must "obviously" have trespassed on "hundreds" of private homes, and that my journey "proved" that nobody used orbs except a handful of public enemies of the fake-community.

 

I replied that in fact the WHOLE trip took place over LLDWP owned protected water and LLDWP owned protected land, except for THREE privately owned parcels that were plainly open to the public, a small privately owned public access dockyard, and two sections of privately owned public access railway track.

 

Since my reply completely invalidated the trespass ranters fraudulent claims and fraudulent assumptions, it was of course, quickly cancel cultured.

 

1 hour ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

Ironically there is far less of a discussion about banlines or orbs in most of the travelling groups I am in, which seems odd

There is a difference between REAL travellers, and the fanatics of the privacy hating anti-home-owner cult.

The latter almost certainly number less than 100, and possibly less than 50, many of them are are forum spamming anti-privacy ranters.

 

[Arielle Popstar]

17 minutes ago, Clem Marques said:

Seemed to be clear. Doesn't mean it was. If the waterway is not protected, LL-owned land, you are not entitled to sail there. If the waterway is open and accessible despite being owned by a resident, it is that way due to the parcel owner's kindness and nothing more.

Or the "self entitled dipsh*t" trying to sail through the owner's land uninvited. I am not calling you that, but showing that this argument could be made from the other person's perspective too. Don't judge and call people names like that, they are well within their rights to have a security orb in their parcel if they wish. Though I understand that a 0 second orb could be seen as unreasonable, it is within TOS as long as it stays within the parcel boundaries.

Always buy or rent protected waterfront if sailing is the intention. Anything else: There is absolutely no guarantee you will be able to sail at all. Unfortunate but true.

Obviously in hindsight it was not but in each case it was a protected waterway where the landowner/renter bordering it had left their land as water thereby making it seem as part of the protected waterway but then putting a 0 sec orb to grief any passerby's.

 

So that the cottage on the right with the boat in front had a fairly large front yard that made the protected part of the waterway quite narrow but with the appearance of being quite a bit wider. Later on I found out he rented from a group that didn't allow 0 sec orbs but he had purposely ignored that part of their covenant. I've run into other ones that were similar where the protected waterway seemed to be wider then it really was and certain homeowners took advantage of it to entrap those touring by with their griefing orbs. You can try to to justify it all you want but I consider those sorts of griefers more of a lowlife dipsh*t then those normally called griefers. Those griefers I might run into in the sandboxes I am prepared for what might happen but this sort of 0sec orb griefing is unexpected and can actually be a bit traumatic as I remember those incidents much more clearly and with a peeve then those incidents in sandboxes I barely remember anymore.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

For me I really started to see the problem when I rented a waterfront on the mainland and bought a boat to cruise the waterways all around those regions.

I'm standing by for in-coming over-entitlement spam...

 

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Multiple times I would be navigating through a channel that seemed clear only to hit some 0 sec orb that extended well into the waterway

So you were sailing in privately owned water. There is the over-entitlement. A recent thread showed the exact same symptoms. The OP there ranted that they bought a "wet parcel" and then found that it WASN'T protected water access (none of that "due diligence" you  whined about ), that getting to protected water was dependant on the generosity of the ACTUAL protected water access parcel next door, who apparently didn't feel that generous.

Probably as a result of the OP constantly referring to anyone with ban-lines by the usual collection of demeaning insults used by over-entitled trespass types, "morons", "imbeciles", etc.

See, if you want to pass through OTHER peoples property, it pays to KEEP YOU MOUTH SHUT, and not insult them constantly to the point where they say "Fork it, I've had enough, welcome to ban-lines and a zero second orb"

 

Always the same story, pro-trespass types start a war they can't win and whine when they lose.

 

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

All because some self entitled dipsh*t who never came inworld anyway was trying to protect his water rights?

His money, his water, his rights. How often they log in, during which timezones, and for how long is of NO consequence, you can't claim it's ok to trespass because the owner isn't home right now, you can't claim it's ok to steal because the owner isn't using something right now.

They don't lose the rights they PAY for because they don't log in when you do, or use the parcel the way you would.

THEIR world, THEIR imagination, THEIR land, THEIR rules.

Not relevant.

 

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

He was an LL sanctioned

...PAYING customer.

 

The advertising for LL's platform doesn't say "SecondCRIME, property is theft, be free to commit any offence you want".

THEIR world, THEIR imagination, THEIR tier bill, THEIR land, THEIR rules.

NOT YOURS.

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

8 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

 

Probably as a result of the OP constantly referring to anyone with ban-lines by the usual collection of demeaning insults used by over-entitled trespass types, "morons", "imbeciles", etc.

 

Constantly referring to people with insults? Heaven forfend...

[Arielle Popstar]

21 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

I'm standing by for in-coming over-entitlement spam...

Get a PBR mirror and you can see the reflection of your long winded spams.

Quote

So you were sailing in privately owned water. blah blah blah....

Take your own advice and read what is actually written. This was about sailing/boating in protected waterways.

Quote

Probably as a result of the OP constantly referring to anyone with ban-lines by the usual collection of demeaning insults used by over-entitled trespass types, "morons", "imbeciles", etc.

The only one I see doing this consistently and habitually is yourself. You really need that mirror. Your whole argument rests on the over entitled renter being able to grief passerby's with 0 sec orbs.

Quote

Always the same story, pro-trespass types start a war they can't win and whine when they lose.

Au contrair, I won because I no longer waste money on rent, psuedo mortgages, premium subscriptions or vehicles. LL lost, not me.

Quote

His money, his water, his rights. How often they log in, during which timezones, and for how long is of NO consequence, you can't claim it's ok to trespass because the owner isn't home right now, you can't claim it's ok to steal because the owner isn't using something right now.His money, his water, his rights. How often they log in, during which timezones, and for how long is of NO consequence, you can't claim it's ok to trespass because the owner isn't home right now, you can't claim it's ok to steal because the owner isn't using something right now.

Nope, again you didn't read or comprehend, he broke the covenant by having and setting the orb in a manner he had previously agreed not to. He is the criminal according to your own definitions. There is unfortunately too many over entitled pseudo home owners out there. You don't own anything other then what is on your own hardrive.

You own nothing and pretend to be happy about it.

Edited January 19 by Arielle Popstar

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Constantly referring to people with insults? Heaven forfend...

As they have given for years, so shall they receive now.

 

Also, I'm not the one begging favours of people who own private property, like sailing access to THEIR protected water access while constantly insulting them.

There is nothing the trespasser trash have that I want, I have no need to PRETEND to be nice to them until they allow me to trespass.

 

"Hey moron I'm an over-entitled trespasser trash, and I stupidly bought a land locked parcel without due diligence, I DEMAND that you dig a ship canal across your land to the sea for me, you imbecile, and remove your ban-lines so I can enjoy my non-right to trespass on your property, dipsh*t!"

"You call me a moron and an imbecile and a dipsh*t, and expect me to remove my ban-lines AND dig you a ship canal to the sea? Yeah right.

Fork off and Dye, Bye-Bye!"

 

[Rowan Amore]

2 hours ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

The reality is, a lot of explorers in SL manage to move around without too much trouble from banlines or orbs

This has been my experience.  As I previously mentioned, the few times I was ejected were because I tped from the road to map coordinates to check out something interesting.  No harm, no foul.  It was my fault and it left my avatar none the worse.  Even if one does get punted home, open chat and finding where you were tped from then opening the map to find the nearest road you were on is easy enough to do so you don't lose your travel.progress.  

[Arielle Popstar]

3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

This has been my experience.  As I previously mentioned, the few times I was ejected were because I tped from the road to map coordinates to check out something interesting.  No harm, no foul.  It was my fault and it left my avatar none the worse.  Even if one does get punted home, open chat and finding where you were tped from then opening the map to find the nearest road you were on is easy enough to do so you don't lose your travel.progress.  

Not so easy when you are travelling by plane, boat or automobile and have gone through multiple regions already. 

[Rowan Amore]

Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

Not so easy when you are travelling by plane, boat or automobile and have gone through multiple regions already. 

Yes, it is.  When you're tped home, it tells you in local chat where exactly you were tped home from.  Open the map, it will show those coordinates and you'll see the nearest road that you were traveling on.  I also have this page marked ..https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Rezzing_Zones

Boating, I use the NE corner if I need to rez my boat again.

[Theresa Tennyson]

2 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Having ban-lines and zero second orbs are NOT a violation of the LL ToS, punting unwelcome trash off ones property is NOT a violation of the LL ToS.

Trespassing on property where you KNOW you are unwelcome with intent to harass, IS a ToS Violation.

Home owners defending their privacy from unwelcome trash are NOT SL Criminals.

Fake Explorers who habitually commit criminal trespass, ARE.

 

Here's an interesting question - let's say that there's some private property which the owner has protected with a zero-second orb, as is their right, but hasn't set ban lines. Now let's say it's something that isn't obviously a house - say a looovvvveleigh pyramid or such. Is this trespassing? How would the trespasser know they were unwelcome without the ban lines?

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Take your own advice and read what is actually written. This was about sailing/boating in protected waterways.

Oh I did read. If you were in protected water, their orb could NOT have punted you, if you were punted, you could NOT have been in protected water.

Claiming one was punted by a zero second orb from protected water would be an obvious LIE.

 

3 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The only one I see doing this consistently and habitually is yourself

You obviously didn't read most of the trespassers against privacy thread over the last 8 years, or even read the first posts in THIS thread moaning about ban-lines and orbs.

Let me refresh your memory, it was back on page 9.

"rabid crypto-Objectivists"

"loonies"

"loonies" again, twice in the same post

"outposts of robo-assassins"

"buckshot-brandishing porch sitter"

That's just in FOUR pages of this thread.

As I said it's ALWAYS the pro-trespasser movement that start the War, and always the pro-trespasser movement that loses it, and then whines for a few dozen pages about losing with increasingly pathetic excuses for trespassing.

 

ALWAYS.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

4 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Here's an interesting question - let's say that there's some private property which the owner has protected with a zero-second orb, as is their right, but hasn't set ban lines. Now let's say it's something that isn't obviously a house - say a looovvvveleigh pyramid or such. Is this trespassing? How would the trespasser know they were unwelcome without the ban lines?

Well, hypothetically, they would know that the parcel usually has ban-lines, because they know the parcel belongs to somebody they constantly pursue a crazy vendetta against on the Forum, and who they are stalking, in a clear example of in-world ToS violating harassment.

For which they almost certainly WILL be reported.

 

[Arielle Popstar]

10 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Oh I did read. If you were in protected water, their orb could NOT have punted you, if you were punted, you could NOT have been in protected water.

Claiming one was punted by a zero second orb from protected water would be an obvious LIE.

Not really being that it was my observation that the 0 second orb punted boat and captain when just the nose had touched its boundary and the remaining 10 meters of boat was still in protected water. 

Try again.

[Arielle Popstar]

10 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Well, hypothetically, they would know that the parcel usually has ban-lines, because they know the parcel belongs to somebody they constantly pursue a crazy vendetta against on the Forum, and who they are stalking, in a clear example of in-world ToS violating harassment.

For which they almost certainly WILL be reported.

 

Are you now reporting posts that don't agree with you?

Used to see a poster in another forum that had the signature : Don't post ickishly if one can't handle the pushback.  

[Istelathis]

When I first came to SL, I think about five years ago I remember being amazed at such a huge open world.  It was not long after, that I got my first plane and set out and likewise it was not long after that which I would learn what security orbs were 🤣  Previous to SL, most of the virtual worlds that were similar were instanced from what I recall, which to me is kind of boring and I did not last very long.  I just like open worlds, even in MMORPGs.  I don't like the feel of instanced virtual worlds at all, and from what little time I spent in Sansar, that appeared to me what the entire platform was - am I wrong there?    I think that is the reason I did not spend very much time there.

It really is a shame, that security orbs exist and there is not some other method to give land owners control over their property while giving explorers a chance to explore where they are wanted or even just tolerated.  To discourage travel on the mainlands, due to negligence on LLs part by not providing landowners the tools which do not discourage explorers, outside of using roads, really takes away a feature some people enjoy in open worlds.

Flying in mainland is a pursuit of frustration, you can purchase HUDS but they are slow loading, you can try to use minimaps but the same thing, you can study maps but that takes from the entire experience, flying free range, is not fun.  Boating in the channels, likewise, is not practical because it is difficult to maneuver around properties that might have security orbs.

 

So what we have is a huge expanse of land, filled with landmines, seamines,  (and airmines) like some demilitarized zone with faulty metal detectors that sometimes don't work 🤣 I am not of the opinion that I am entitled to people's land, if they don't want me on it, I don't want to be on it.  I just wish LL provided something for everyone to enjoy SL with.

Bellisseria is devoid of these security orbs, but driving the roads which is mostly a maze with a lot of dead ends, and several tight turns, and cookie cutter homes becomes boring rather quickly.  Flying is nice, but looking down again, it is just the same neighborhoods over and over again.  It is so weird, that you have that freedom in an environment that just doesn't have the same variety and creative freedom that mainland has.

 

Bleh...

Edited January 19 by Istelathis

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

SO I examined myself and came to the conclusion that the waterfront home, the boat was all just a waste of money and the waterway touring a lie about what can be done in S/L.

Interesting how when people don't get what they want, instead of "dealing with it", then it becomes someone else's fault, "a lie", etc.

 

[Gabriele Graves]

Even after all these years, I really don't understand what the fuss is about.  It really is over-egged.

Me: I poke around exploring where ever I want on mainland.  If a parcel has banlines, I go around or over.  If I go on to a parcel that's orb-protected without anything obvious, I either move on quickly or if the orb gets me then I'm like "oh well, I'll just carry on from near where I was or I'll call it a day exploring."  I really just don't care that the orb got me.  It's not any kind of big deal.

Anti-Orb People: Arrrgh! Rage, Rage, everything must be changed, these people must be stopped!

Seriously people, just let it go.  The reduction in stress will be worth it.

[Love Zhaoying]

7 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

Seriously people, just let it go.  The reduction in stress will be worth it.

Some of the people complaining have been in Second Life many, many years. 

So, I think the "ban lines" / "orb" part of the discussion is just a reason to complain and create drama.

[Istelathis]

12 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

 

Anti-Orb People: Arrrgh! Rage, Rage, everything must be changed, these people must be stopped!

Seriously people, just let it go.  The reduction in stress will be worth it.

I don't think that many people are actually frustrated with it to the point that it consumes their lives, it is just annoying and people voice their frustration over it on the forum.  I mean, I find security orbs to be frustrating, I wish LL would do something to make SL better for everyone without taking away property rights, but it is not an all consuming topic that floods my mind.

Typically I just ignore these threads, sometimes I will post in them, I don't let it get to the point where I start insulting others, making accusations, and so on, it is just not worth it, plus I am not psychic and don't know the intentions behind the minds of those who have put up those evil orbs of doom.

It is enough to keep me from flying in SL mainland as a form of entertainment, that is about it.  I'll be thinking of other things in a few moments while I am off in the real world walking around my own town, then I'll be thinking about what to make for dinner while cleaning my house, then I'll be thinking what to watch tonight (probably the new Ted show, it is hillarious)

Edited January 19 by Istelathis

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

plus I am not psychic and don't know the intentions behind the minds of those who have put up those evil orbs of doom.

You are apparently neither psychic, NOR psychotic!

I'm liking you more and more all the time!

[Clem Marques]

20 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

Even after all these years, I really don't understand what the fuss is about.  It really is over-egged.

Me: I poke around exploring where ever I want on mainland.  If a parcel has banlines, I go around or over.  If I go on to a parcel that's orb-protected without anything obvious, I either move on quickly or if the orb gets me then I'm like "oh well, I'll just carry on from near where I was or I'll call it a day exploring."  I really just don't care that the orb got me.  It's not any kind of big deal.

Anti-Orb People: Arrrgh! Rage, Rage, everything must be changed, these people must be stopped!

Seriously people, just let it go.  The reduction in stress will be worth it.

Very well said. There's really no need to get so stressed about it.

The way I see it:

• Ban lines? I'm 100% staying away.
• Kicked out by an orb, 0-second or otherwise? Too bad. I just TP to a road or rez zone nearby and move on.

Not that hard. Those two factors are a very well-known risks, and getting extremely angry about them won't change the fact that they are allowed and exist on Mainland regions. The easiest way to avoid all potential problems is to not trespass, or to be conscious about it and therefore do it as little as possible while exploring.

Edited January 19 by Clem Marques

[Gabriele Graves]

5 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

I don't think that many people are actually frustrated with it to the point that it consumes their lives, it is just annoying and people voice their frustration over it on the forum.

I think there's been enough evidence over the years and in this topic recently that shows it gets under the skin of some people in a very unhealthy fashion.  In retrospect, perhaps I should have added a "Some" to that "Anti-Orb People" part.  I really meant the people who get like that and not all anti-orb people.  It kinda gets laborious when you have to fully qualify everything though.

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Interesting how when people don't get what they want, instead of "dealing with it", then it becomes someone else's fault, "a lie", etc.

 

Sure, it is a very rare debate where both parties do not have a degree of responsibility in how it pans out. One can see where they themselves have some responsibility while still seeing the responsibility of the other side. When it all comes down to it it is really in the court of LL with having inconsistent policies that are dependent on the continent. Question is whether allowing one to use 0 sec orbs is going to make them more money rather then the loss of people resulting from not being able to freely travel the grid, other then those places protected by ban lines, rather then having to suffer the indignities, trauma, and abuse of being unexpectedly bounced home without warning.

[Rowan Amore]

3 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

having to suffer the indignities, trauma, and abuse of being intruded upon by random people showing up in their homes

FIFY

Being intruded upon in your own home is, IMO, far more traumatizing to more people than being tossed home while you're out and about.  Overall, I'm guessing more.people have had someone TP to their green dot on the map than have been tped home by an orb while exploring mainland.