Tipping Etiquette

[Rat Luv]

1 hour ago, Anna Salyx said:

 

the main issue here is that most venues (as someone point out already) work on a tight margin or in the red. They make enough off rentals (mall or residential), donations, and what not to cover tier (if that) and not much more. To be able "pay" the staff a wage that not an insult would mean in, most cases, implementing a cover charge to enter the club. And realistically that's not going to happen. Not even the most elite clubs do that. Sure some may have a large group join fee, with group required to enter the club but even that is a one time charge.  So we come down to tips.  I've work in places where I got paid small wages on top of tips which is a nice bonus but they are rare.  So tips for entertainers will always be a thing for the majority of clubs and workers, like it or not.

It really depends on the host and the venue really. For an active host in an active club, that's x* hours of being "on". Greeting guests, engaging with the crowd to spark conversation, being a bouncer at times, fielding questions, giving out group invites, being a carnival barker, publishing notices in multiple groups, engaging in group chat where appropriate.  Yes, there are hosts who don't do much (venue doesn't require it) and those who do a lot (venue does). You can't lump all in the same bucket.

Me, I tell jokes**. (Come for the music and sexy dancer, stay for the corny jokes!). I talk about shopping events I want to go to or have attended.  I talk about different topical interests in Sl.  I talk books I'm reading and want to read, and find out what others are reading.  Ditto TV shows and movies.  I offer up music trivia and talk about music in general and my favorite covers.  All this is to try and get the guests to feel comfy and get chatty themselves for a better time. And I never use gestures for anything.  Everything from greetings, to end of set closeout is all typed out on the fly. I try to never let a serious lull in conversation happen, even if I"m just sometimes talking to myself a lot.  At the end of a set, I"m mentally exhausted.

*most sets are 2 hours but some can be longer.  depends on the venue.  Also my shift begins 30 to 40 minutes before the set start time just getting notices ready and sent.

**I invest in RL joke books from time to time.  Sure you can find jokes on the internet but many times that well runs dry.  I try to recycle jokes as little a possible, trying to keep things new (or topical) with a rotation of 2 or 3 months before I circle back.

So, not a fan of corny jokes and puns?  Don't like talking about the latest movie coming out?  Check.  I'll remember that

But seriously, I do get your perspective, but I hope I can change it some if you ever wander into a place I'm hosting at.

 

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edit to add a final thought.  Yes, I do work hard.  I've been hosting for 8 to 10 years now.  I don't feel entitled to tips, but they are really nice when they happen.  and I'll be equally gracious and enthusiastic when thanking a tipper regardless if the tip L$5 or L$500.  over that and I might be a bit more bubbly, but hey that's rare enough that it requires a bit of extra bubble.  lol  and my thank yous are always semi-custom and personalized. never a canned thank you.

Great post! 🔥

[Anna Salyx]

3 hours ago, Yorkie Bardeen said:

I don't know, one of the really popular and hip clubs I used to go to was only a 2048 parcel, which if they were canny at the time would effectively cost $2 USD per month to host. These days it would cost about $6. At some point your club is either a business, or you're LARPing that it's a business, or it's a hobby and you accept that it's not going to rake in cash and just host events for the vibes.

it still comes down to logistics of money. Using a very broad hypothetical.  Say you have a moderately popular club.  You have 3 sets a day, every day of the week. That's 21 shows. Because it's a business not a LARP. Now  Hire a Host and a DJ* for each shift, and pay them a moderate wage per shift. that's gonna cost in real world US Dollars between $400 and $800 a month for staff wages alone. That's paying a per shift wage of 500 to 1000** linden dollars.

And paying that with no functional income stream into the club (you're not selling overpriced food and drinks after all), your club stops being a LARP and becomes a "charity".  But wait you say, charge a moderate cover.  You've got good traffic. find the price point that allows you to pay the staff and still make a slight profit after tier. But most of your clientele will go to the next club on the destination guide that doesn't charge cover.

The business model for the bulk of the entertainment venues within second life simply doesn't support proper wages to the staff because there is no real income stream into the club.  Manager maybe get a salary.  

So, yeah, I guess it's LARPing, but that's the hand that's dealt.

Now granted this my casual outsider perspective looking in.  I'm just a Host.  Been one for years.  Danced on occasion too. DJed when pressed ganged into it.  But I've never been a manager, an have zero desire to be one.  or a club owner.  I like working.  I like getting the tips (or wages) that allows me to buy shoes and clothes and decor and not spend RL money on it.
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* my cost model, naturally, goes up if you hire dancers and pay them salary too

**On a good night I'll make L$1000 or more just hosting.  On an average night, a skosh less.  Bad nights of course I'm not making really anything, but I tell ya, if i'm working for wages alone in this environment, I'm personally not working for less than a L$700 a shift

Edited July 23 by Anna Salyx
typo

[Chery Amore]

@Anna Salyx You sound like a wonderful host. Or at least the type I think of as wonderful with nothing canned going on except maybe the initial group and midway commercials.  You'd be one that I might tip, but it would still be a toss up or I'd split the amount I was willing to tip into much smaller tips and feel like a real cheapo at that point. At times I've chosen between the DJ and host. I kind of weigh out if it isn't seeming fair if that makes sense and try to even the scales just a bit.

Most venue or club owners that I have known are also usually at least slightly in the red if not more. I haven't personally met anyone in years where they make money off their venue. It goes back to rent or other costs and that's why if I like a venue I'm more inclined to tip it some.  Admittedly I usually don't go to small claustrophobic places though or just a box in the sky with no other areas attached. I understand those places have way less overhead. 

I personally like it when I meet DJ's and hosts that might not make much but do it for their enjoyment also. It usually shows in their performance or attitude.

 

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

I'll tip a host if they are actively engaged with the people there to listen to the music. If local chat is lively because they are good at prompting chat ill send a good tip. No tip if they only send greetings, spam gestures, or only chat with their friends.

Promotion should be paid for by the DJ or venue.

I will quickly unfriend anyone who acts like a friend, but only sends TP requests to their events.  Screw that. I'll join a group or check out venue notices if I want to see what's going on. 

[Rowan Amore]

Never thought of clubs in SL as an actual business.  They are something someone opens so.they can be a club owner not make money.  They have notoriously been money pits.  

The club I went to when I was new held contests 24/7.  It was on a private estate.  Every contest was at least 1000L split 3 ways.  The contests ran 2 hours each.  That's 12000L per day every day.   This club ran for at least a year.  Do the math.   It wasn't a business but an expensive hobby.  

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

9 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Never thought of clubs in SL as an actual business.  They are something someone opens so.they can be a club owner not make money.  They have notoriously been money pits.  

The club I went to when I was new held contests 24/7.  It was on a private estate.  Every contest was at least 1000L split 3 ways.  The contests ran 2 hours each.  That's 12000L per day every day.   This club ran for at least a year.  Do the math.   It wasn't a business but an expensive hobby.  

 

There used to be a club, run 24/7, 2 hr sets, that had contests several times a day at weekends, run by an alt of a popular store owner, the store made money, on one region, to cover the bills, the club spent it on the other region, to generate a good time for the store owner, disguised as their alt..

 

[Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia]

I like going to live music shows.  When I see a live musician, I almost always toss in 100L.  It isn't much, but it's enough that musicians are happy to see me when I show up.

If I see multiple musicians, in a row, I typically toss the venue 100L, on top of what I send the individual musicians.

This might not sound like much, but it adds up when you bounce around to bunch of shows in a night

I don't really tip hosts.  If they are running an open mic night, synchronizing a performer list, and stream handovers every other song, while dealing with security, and all that stuff, then sure, I'll toss them a generous tip.  They're clearly doing a LOT of work!  At a regular club, though?  As far as I can tell, they don't usually do much, unless something goes wrong.  They set up the stream hand offs, which shouldn't take too much time.  Then they hang out.  Unless there is a security issue, I don't usually want to hear from the host.  If a host starts gesturebating, I'll probably TP out, and nobody gets tips.  Especially if those gestures have sounds.  Also, if the host didn't turn off voice, I consider that a big mistake, and usually won't stick around.  So there are a lot of things a host can do wrong, by messing up the hand off or being too noisy, or not sonically setting the venue up for music, or being over dramatic about the way they enforce rules.  I can't think of a way for them to stand out for being good at hosting, though.  They're kind of like theater tech people, or roadies.  I want them to do what they do, because they do important work.  I just don't want to ever see them.  They need to be invisible ninjas.

Now that I think about it, I probably should make an effort to start tipping hosts when they are good at being invisible.  The really good ones make me forget they're there, though, so it's hard to remember to tip them.

[Yorkie Bardeen]

On 7/23/2024 at 9:08 PM, Anna Salyx said:

it still comes down to logistics of money. Using a very broad hypothetical.  Say you have a moderately popular club.  You have 3 sets a day, every day of the week. That's 21 shows. Because it's a business not a LARP. Now  Hire a Host and a DJ* for each shift, and pay them a moderate wage per shift. that's gonna cost in real world US Dollars between $400 and $800 a month for staff wages alone. That's paying a per shift wage of 500 to 1000** linden dollars.

They didn't pay the DJ, the DJ put a tip jar out and the club did also.

[Anna Salyx]

1 hour ago, Yorkie Bardeen said:

They didn't pay the DJ, the DJ put a tip jar out and the club did also.

Be that as it may I was referring back to the part of your comment that reads:

Quote

At some point your club is either a business, or you're LARPing that it's a business,

And also back to the comment upthread that venues needed to do away with tip jars and just pay the staff wages for work.

Without a steady cash inflow (which SL clubs generally and broadly speaking will never have) they will always be a "larp" as you put it, and will never be able to offer real wages as some other suggests.  that's all my comment/tangent was about. Not the small club with little tier that you talked about.

 

[Rat Luv]

16 hours ago, Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia said:

I can't think of a way for them to stand out for being good at hosting, though.  They're kind of like theater tech people, or roadies.  I want them to do what they do, because they do important work.  I just don't want to ever see them.  They need to be invisible ninjas.

I don't really agree...the best hosting experiences I had was when I felt part of the venue and just 'another regular', only one who helped make sure it ran smoothly and had to send out notices.... It was only really when I was known as part of the club and the regulars got to know me that I got the tips...I don't think I ever greeted somebody new and got tipped straight away, and I wouldn't have expected it...

Also, on another topic, I've NEVER known any host who asked for tips for themselves 😵 It was always, host mentions tips for the DJ/venue, DJ mentions tips for the host/venue...well, most of the time 😁 I would find it too cringy to say "Please tip me for doing such a wonderful job!" 😇

Edited July 25 by Rat Luv
typos