Have You Ever Received A Message From SL?

[Luna Bliss]

36 minutes ago, Hathoria said:

But that is the thing, true we are never separated from the natural world because we live in it every day but so many people do not realize this. That language of separation and return, while it may not be technically accurate is in fact very useful for describing one of the major problems with modern life.

There's an article you might like as much as I did, but I can't find it right now as I'm forced onto my laptop atm without my links.

But the image it paints brings tears to my eyes.  In times past we lived in a little village and so-called 'nature' surrounded us. But now we place so-called 'nature' in a national park, cage it, and humans surround it.

[Luna Bliss]

4 hours ago, ChinRey said:

The dandelion was spread across the world by people who grew it for food. The whole plant is edible, the root can be a significant source of carbohydrates, the leaves is a great alternative to lettuce and the flowers have a lovely sweet taste. (The stalks aren't really delicious food but they're edible too.)

It's a great source for nectar for the bees to make honey from although too much of it in the mix can be a bit of a nuisance for beekeepers since dandelion honey crystalizes so easily.

The dandelion can be great for improving soil quality since deep roots are able to extract nutrients from soil too deep for other plants to reach and bring it up to the surface.

It's a beautiful flower and great fun for children too. What is it not to like about it?

---

The dandelion got a bad reputation when some Brits with too much money decided they wanted huge sterile lawns just to show the world they were so rich they could afford to lay their land to waste.

There's a lesson for us all here: The dandelion became regarded as an unwanted weed because it can be so useful and valuable! I think that says a lot about humanity in general and our moden society in particular.

So the Brits actually started that?  Ok, I won't blame us 'Muricans anymore -- everybody hates us now, so we don't need more of it anyway.

Interesting notion there, that the dandelion became regarded as an unwanted weed because it can be so useful and valuable -- yes I agree, it's like humanity wants to be king and off with your head if you're a threat to that.

[Hathoria]

3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

In times past we lived in a little village and so-called 'nature' surrounded us. But now we place so-called 'nature' in a national park, cage it,

This transformation has come with the illusion of making us independent. In those earlier days it was obvious that we were dependent upon nature for our survival, and today many people believe they are now independent, living their own lives not dependent on anything other then themselves, but in reality we are dependent upon grids and networks that are far more fragile than anything we used to rely on. In times past in a worse case situation a person could go into the woods and forage enough food to survive but today most of us live in areas where this is impossible even if we knew how which we no longer do. If the whole system collapsed the vast majority of people would just starve because there would be no way to get food to them

[Luna Bliss]

5 hours ago, Maitimo said:

Cities can be magical places too. There's energy to them, not always nice energy, but magic doesn't need to be nice to be real; it just is.  It's how you use that energy, or how you let it affect you, that matters.

As an example, compare sitting in a crowded commuter train on a Monday morning with sitting in a crowded sports stadium on a Saturday afternoon.  The difference in energy between those two situations is so extreme that I'm sure even the least spiritual person here can sense it.  There's energy (and therefore also magic) in technology too. I've done rituals which literally used the internet to transmit healing to another person.  It's just another way of focussing intent and will.

Magic is experiencing the energy of the world around us. Whether that energy comes from a forest, or a crowded sport stadium, or from technology, doesn't really make a lot of difference. It can all still be experienced and used in the same ways. 

Very interesting!

And I've done that too -- sent energy to others via the internet (with Reiki). And with the meditation group I participate in online (Yogananda's Self-realization Fellowship) we end each session with raising our hands and sending goodwill toward the world.

Question, since you are parsing negative/positive types of energies, how do you define what's going on (generally, as I know each person would be different) with those who focus on the dark side in SL -- they wear horns on their head, dress in black, often with black wings, and sometimes say they are demons (and not talking about roleplay here, as it means something to them on a deep level and there is no roleplay going on when they show up at some rituals on the sim where I live).

There is a higher vibrational energy, and a lower vibrational one -- but why do some choose to exist in the lower vibrational realms?

Edited July 5, 2023 by Luna Bliss

[Persephone Emerald]

5 hours ago, Maitimo said:

Cities can be magical places too. There's energy to them, not always nice energy, but magic doesn't need to be nice to be real; it just is.  It's how you use that energy, or how you let it affect you, that matters.

As an example, compare sitting in a crowded commuter train on a Monday morning with sitting in a crowded sports stadium on a Saturday afternoon.  The difference in energy between those two situations is so extreme that I'm sure even the least spiritual person here can sense it.  There's energy (and therefore also magic) in technology too. I've done rituals which literally used the internet to transmit healing to another person.  It's just another way of focussing intent and will.

Magic is experiencing the energy of the world around us. Whether that energy comes from a forest, or a crowded sport stadium, or from technology, doesn't really make a lot of difference. It can all still be experienced and used in the same ways. 

^ This explains how I think of the energy of Nature vs. man-made spaces. Everything is part of our Universe and those energies we sometimes think of as metaphysical. Humans have a huge capacity to alter the world around us, and in doing so we often come to believe we're separate from Nature, but human nature is essentially part of nature too. Other animals and plants alter the world around them too, but in smaller or slower ways than we do. Beavers, for instance, can change the flow of streams to create ponds and meadows. Plants can move and share nutrients and chemical messages with each other. When a predator kills an animal, it changes the effects that animal and its potential descedents might have had on the world as well.

I don't think our man-made environment is lacking in spiritual energies that we could pick up. I think it's actually full energies that are constantly bombarding our psychic senses, to the point that we've learned to block them out to try to stay sane. When we go away from this environment to sit quietly in Nature, our shields can drop, so we can take in the quieter messages of the plant, animal and elemental world around us.

We can probably all feel the difference in energy between daytime vs. night in the man-made world. I think this is because people are radiating their thoughts and emotions more strongly during the day, and we subconsciously pick up their anxiety, frustration, anger, sadness or happiness. I've been interested in trying to understand the spiritual energies of the world around me - which is mostly the man-made world, rather than the wild, natural world. - I've learned that freeways are kind of like rivers in a metaphysical sense, except the feel of their energies changes depending on the time of day. Homes, shopping malls, parks, and offices all have their own kinds of energies.

The cyber and virtual worlds we create have their own energies too. A spider's web is often used as a metaphor for how all of creation is connected. The Internet or "World Wide Web" exemplifies this spiritual principle too, and as such can certainly be used in magical practices. Energy in the form of electrons, photons and sound waves flows through and out of our computers and phones. Spiritual energies can flow through them (or perhaps their spiritual "shadow" sides?) too. Non-physical energies and spirits can exist and function in non-physical spaces.

It's thus possible to receive messages of a spiritual nature through electronic devices or in SL. Of course, our brains are also wired to see patterns and meaning in all kinds of random things, but that doesn't mean those messages are meaningless. Our subconscious could use random patterns to communicate with our conscious mind, sort of like a Rorsach test made of the world around us.

[Persephone Emerald]

On 7/3/2023 at 3:55 PM, Lewis Luminos said:

I did, once, and I still, after all these years, don't know what it means.

Years ago in the mid-1990s, long before SL was even a glimmer in Philip Rosedale's eye, I had a dream. In that dream, I wasn't myself. I was someone else. living in what appeared to be a post-apocalyptic world of some kind. I was travelling with my family, a wife and two teenage children, on the run from... whatever was chasing us, I never knew what the danger was. We were in the US, and headed for the Canadian border, and I knew that once we reached that border, we would be safe.  We travelled through a cornfield and found an abandoned rusty old locomotive where we took shelter. I remember spreading out a map on the floor of the loco, checking our position and which way we had to go.

I think you know where this is going...

In 2009 or thereabouts, I found the cornfield and the locomotive, in the place called the Far Away.

Much later, I did some research on Bryn's build and discovered that the locomotive here is modeled on a real one in Illinois, which (coincidentally??) is where Madison is from, but in the dream I was in North Dakota, and headed straight for Winnipeg.

Another not-a-coincidence is that my avatar's appearance is and always has been 100% based on how I looked in that dream.

I think this was a precognition. Our minds are more open to psychic perception in dream, in the state between sleep and waking, when meditating, or when doing some "mindless" task that lets the brain move into theta waves.

I had a weird and memorable experience of this once while watching tv and starting to drift into sleep. I imagined being on an internet forum for vampires, woke, and thought "That was weird". Later I did actually find and post on forums for the "real vampire community", people who identify as vampires. I think my weird premonition was a kind of window view into my future life, though at the time it just seemed ridiculous. 

[Persephone Emerald]

46 minutes ago, Hathoria said:

This transformation has come with the illusion of making us independent. In those earlier days it was obvious that we were dependent upon nature for our survival, and today many people believe they are now independent, living their own lives not dependent on anything other then themselves, but in reality we are dependent upon grids and networks that are far more fragile than anything we used to rely on. In times past in a worse case situation a person could go into the woods and forage enough food to survive but today most of us live in areas where this is impossible even if we knew how which we no longer do. If the whole system collapsed the vast majority of people would just starve because there would be no way to get food to them

People who live closer to nature often have to understand the natural world very well in order to survive. They have to know which plants can be food or medicine and which are poisonous. They have to know how to defend themselves from being bitten by a poisonous snake or how to navigate by following streams or the stars. We in this man-made world have to understand man-made rules, hazards and resources to survive in it. We have to know how to defend ourselves from human predators and to navigate by following maps or an electronic voice from our phones.

We are still interdependent on each other and the world around us, though we in the "developed" world tend to forget this.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Persephone Emerald

[Persephone Emerald]

52 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

[snip]

Question, since you are parsing negative/positive types of energies, how do you define what's going on (generally, as I know each person would be different) with those who focus on the dark side in SL -- they wear horns on their head, dress in black, often with black wings, and sometimes say they are demons (and not talking about roleplay here, as it means something to them on a deep level and there is no roleplay going on when they show up at some rituals on the sim where I live).

There is a higher vibrational energy, and a lower vibrational one -- but why do some choose to exist in the lower vibrational realms?

I don't think identifying with dark energies or archetypes is necessarily a reflection of lower vibrational energies. Horns were associated animals long before they were associated with demons. The animalistic side of human nature became associated with "evil" under monotheism in general and under Christianity specifically, because a dualistic perspective forced people to think in terms of Good vs. Evil, Light vs. Dark, or high frequency vs. low frequency. It's true that certain mental states tend to keep us stuck in unhappy feelings and circular behaviors, but sadness and anger also serve necessary functions.

I met a guy in SL once who was using a snake avatar at an Adult venue. I thought that was clever and started talking with him. He turned out to have a "darker" personality than I liked, so I ended up unfriending him.  On the otherhand, I've also met horned "demonic" avatars who were perfectly nice people. I might be repelled by someone who wears bruises or scars on their avatar, but one woman I met wore scars on her wrists as a reminder of having survived a suicide attempt. One just needs to get to know people better before assuming to understand what their avatar appearance means.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Question, since you are parsing negative/positive types of energies, how do you define what's going on (generally, as I know each person would be different) with those who focus on the dark side in SL -- they wear horns on their head, dress in black, often with black wings, and sometimes say they are demons (and not talking about roleplay here, as it means something to them on a deep level and there is no roleplay going on when they show up at some rituals on the sim where I live).

There is a higher vibrational energy, and a lower vibrational one -- but why do some choose to exist in the lower vibrational realms?

You like to ask "Why"! 

First of all, I like @Persephone Emerald's answer.

Here's mine.  

1. In my own spirituality / mythos (we talk about it a lot), "Yogi Demons" exist.  They "worship the same gods", etc. just for "selfish reasons". They attain the "fruits" of that worship, they just use that for their own selfish gain.

2. In Second Life - people can "play at" being whatever type of "dark force" they want - even if they don't ACTUALLY want to partake in RL in the "dark actions" associated with the images they portray.

3. HOWEVER..there is an implication that those who choose to portray a "dark side" of things may also "not care" what others think.  And in doing so, perhaps - just perhaps - they have their own motives for doing whatever they do; placing them in the category of "Yogi Demons".  Not "bad" - just having goals and desires that may not  follow what most people consider as "good", etc.

4. Bottom line, why? Because everyone is a little selfish.  Those who portray a "darker side" just aren't afraid to show that part of themselves that the rest of us hide.

It's where you put your REAL energy, out here in the "Real World" (whether your actions or "focus") that matters.

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Love Zhaoying
Why ask US? Ask THEM!

[Persephone Emerald]

@Love Zhaoying,  I like your answer too.

Let's look some more at what a "demon" might mean to people. The word comes from the Greek "daemon", which means a personal spirit, not really an evil spirit. The idea of a demon being evil comes from Christianity literally demonizing the ideas non-Christians had of their gods and spirits. In India (the home of Buddhism) a similar shift happened when people from the north took over areas of the south, so that the native gods became "demons" in the mythology of the conquering people. This demonization of previous cultures serves both a political purpose and a philosophical one. The philosophical purpose is that it's used to explain the existence of "evil" in our world. The idea is that there is a constant battle between the forces of "goodness", embodied by the conquering culture, and the forces of "evil" - which is often just nature - embodied by the defeated culture. 

In Tarot, the Devil card seems scary and evil at first sight, but it's meant to represent the Temptation of vices and addictions that aren't evil in themselves, but only when followed to excess. The 2 human figures held in chains in front of the Devil are loosely bound, showing that they could free themselves if they wished to do so. This card is sometimes viewed as representing lust too, which also isn't evil in itself, but only problematic when not balanced by other motivations and responsibilities.

Some people like the idea of Lucifer, the "fallen angel", being a representation of resistance to a status-quo hierarchy that stifles individuality and creativity. For them the fires of Hell might be viewed are representing creative energy, rather than punishment. They may also view horned demons as representing their own natural impulses and resistance to authority. They may enjoy representing their "darker" side in SL, because they feel like it's stifled in RL. They might be disruptive players, who like to sow a little controversy and chaos around them, but this doesn't mean they're necessarily bad people. Trickster deities and spirits also sow disruption and chaos in mythology, sometimes to open people's eyes to something they're not seeing or to facilitate a needed change.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Persephone Emerald

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

In India (the home of Buddhism) a similar shift happened when people from the north took over areas of the south, so that the native gods became "demons" in the mythology of the conquering people. This demonization of previous cultures serves both a political purpose and a philosophical one. The philosophical purpose is that it's used to explain the existence of "evil" in our world. The idea is that there is a constant battle between the forces of "goodness", embodied by the conquering culture, and the forces of "evil" - which is often just nature - embodied by the defeated culture. 

Of note is that "Demons" are often shown as "Blue" - but so are many "gods".  Only a few like Kali are described as "Black".  (With the understanding that "blue humans" actually exist.) ..and at the same time, the "more modern" Caste system is biased towards those of "lighter skin".

A nice place to note that in my own version of of "the Alphabet" (which I wrote about age 14)- letters "J" through "Q" are:  "Just killing lust makes no open problems, queerly."

So to take your examples of "look at the symbolism!" - if we do the same in Second Life, it could answer Luna's question more easily.  Someone who takes a "form" that we associate with "the devil" - that form is also associated with other / older forms more associated with "Lust" (satyrs, etc.).

15 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Some people like the idea of Lucifer, the "fallen angel", being a representation of resistance to a status-quo hierarchy that stifles individuality and creativity.

Those devilish "Free Thinkers"! 😉 

 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

I've only been skimming this thread, so fair warning - I've probably missed a lot. I saw the demon discussion though, and figured I might as well jump in, seeing as I'm someone who leans pretty far into "the dark side" both in and out of SL. 

In SL, I have demon avatars. A siren. Rusalka. Zombies and liches and draugr. A Lovecraftian monster. A few "Not Your Ariel" mermaids and sea monsters. Ya know. Cute, wholesome stuff. If I'm not a frog or something furry, I'm probably in one of these. I feel little need to be "pretty" in SL, so this kinda works for me.

In RL, I've socialized with lots of people who liked similar things. Horror. Monsters. Dark stuff. Creepy, unsettling movies, music, and books. Demons. "Evil" imagery. What have you. Goths and dark and morbid nutters (said lovingly) make up the bulk of people I've known throughout life (and why not - I'm much the same).

I once had a fantastic art lecturer who was pursuing a PhD in ancient funeral rites and death rituals. Used to hit up goth clubs with another teacher before she ran off to Egypt to study under an Egyptologist. Once knew a girl who worked in a funeral home and was working towards being a mortician/funeral director. She adored hearses and was a lot of fun to hang out with - when she wasn't at work 👀. Used to have some interesting, thought-provoking conversations with a Satanist I knew online. These were all genuinely some of the nicest people I've ever met.

Sometimes people just like stuff. I've not found it says anything in particular about anyone - except perhaps that they have very curious minds and great imaginations. 

To answer the main topic about receiving messages in SL - not particularly, no. If I had to pick a favorite type of location, though, I do feel more "at home" in cyberpunk cities and places near water with a ton of atmosphere. I once got dragged to Everwinter and had to run my butt out of there, though - and not because of messages. I just have a limit to my creepy tolerance and quickly reached it with that place for some reason. Creepy people I love. Creepy PLACES - no. But old (2021ish) Drune - I used to veg out there for hours. It was too cozy!

[Luna Bliss]

Interesting thoughts from all of yous, and quite deep. Hopefully I'll be up to commenting and discussing when fully awake in the morn 

[cirleen]

My personal belief is that rituals and ceremonies are not really necessary, subconscious processes go on all the time in response to conscious awareness. Labels and ceremonies are absolutely necessary for communication and they help get everyone on the same page but generally I don't think it's a good idea to accustom the subconscious to requiring a conscious command. The subconscious is like a river that needs to flow freely. Ceremonial details can be complex or personal, creating a barrier to understanding, but at the same time a language must be learned to be able to speak. There may be hindrances with rituals as well if the needed items are lacking or if a timeframe needs to be waited for. Instead of ceremonially directing the subconscious I think it's a far better idea to become comfortable with one's own subconscious through friendship, compassion, contentment, and happiness. Everything will work fine and creativity will flow just by doing that. And I like dandelions, they're the perfect symbol for my posts in the forum garden. So I'm a dandelion too, happy dandelion day, I'll celebrate it annually from now on, thanks.

[Love Zhaoying]

The kind of message I usually receive from Second Life is:

- If I crash, it's time to do something else for awhile.

- If I get a get the message "Region will be restarting soon", it's time to do something else for awhile.

- If someone TP's nearby and comes onto my parcel, it's time to do something else for awhile.

- If someone sends me an IM, it's time to do something else for awhile.

[Maitimo]

16 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Question, since you are parsing negative/positive types of energies, how do you define what's going on (generally, as I know each person would be different) with those who focus on the dark side in SL -- they wear horns on their head, dress in black, often with black wings, and sometimes say they are demons (and not talking about roleplay here, as it means something to them on a deep level and there is no roleplay going on when they show up at some rituals on the sim where I live).

I don't think it always means a great deal, beyond roleplay, tbh.  Do you remember Greville Oh, who was the owner of the original Chiaroscuro? He styled himself as a "Prince of Darkness", his avatar was a Drow (dark elf) with black skin. He dressed like a typical old-school goth. And yet, he was one of the sweetest, gentlest people I ever met. He hated violence in any form, he couldn't even bring himself to watch a series like Star Trek or Doctor Who because the guns and violence in it were too much for him. He was generous and altruistic, giving up many hours of his time every day, and a significant portion of his income, to help those whose needs he considered greater than his own. 

So why did he always dress up like a dark elf in SL? I think he merely liked the aesthetic of it. He certainly didn't act like one. Although - @Love Zhaoying mentioned lust - and you may have something there; Grev was nothing if not a very lustful person.  But even then, he only acted as such with those who were willing to match him. I never was, and though he asked me for a sexual relationship on one or two occasions, I declined and he never pushed the matter or tried to persuade me otherwise. Despite that, there was a deep mutual love between us. He described me as the light against his shadow, but in truth, I see it the other way round. I carry a great deal of psychological baggage from my past and he was the light against my shadow. 

I have a tendency to be stubborn, serious and rather inflexible; I see this as a weakness but to Greville it was a strength; one that we used together to achieve things like getting Fantasy Gay Pride set up and open on time; something which his scatter-brain almost certainly could not have achieved on his own.

I miss him so much.

Then there are those who dress as demons/dark elves AND act like them too. Those people are selfish, power-hungry and deliberately seek to dominate over others.  I see people like that as another facet of the type outside of SL who seek to dominate those weaker than themselves, whether in business, politics, sex and romantic/marital relationships etc. I think narcissism plays a part here, along with self-centeredness and a lust for power.

Lust again - but not limited to sexual lust.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Maitimo

[Lewis Luminos]

18 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I think this was a precognition. Our minds are more open to psychic perception in dream, in the state between sleep and waking, when meditating, or when doing some "mindless" task that lets the brain move into theta waves.

I had a weird and memorable experience of this once while watching tv and starting to drift into sleep. I imagined being on an internet forum for vampires, woke, and thought "That was weird". Later I did actually find and post on forums for the "real vampire community", people who identify as vampires. I think my weird premonition was a kind of window view into my future life, though at the time it just seemed ridiculous. 

I've had at least one other precognitive dream before, and with the increasingly disturbing situation in the US right now, I have the uncomfortable feeling that you may be right, and that it may not be too far into the future when US citizens can find safety only by fleeing their country. 😔

[Lewis Luminos]

Historically, religions (especially but not exclusively the Judaeo-Christian ones) frequently demonised the deities of the religions that existed before them. Demons in Christian mythology have horns because Pan had horns, and so did Cernunnos, and many others. And even this depiction of demons within Christian mythology is a relatively new one, starting some 800-odd years after the birth of Christianity.

[Luna Bliss]

On 7/5/2023 at 11:50 AM, Persephone Emerald said:

On 7/5/2023 at 10:36 AM, Luna Bliss said:

[snip]

Question, since you are parsing negative/positive types of energies, how do you define what's going on (generally, as I know each person would be different) with those who focus on the dark side in SL -- they wear horns on their head, dress in black, often with black wings, and sometimes say they are demons (and not talking about roleplay here, as it means something to them on a deep level and there is no roleplay going on when they show up at some rituals on the sim where I live).

There is a higher vibrational energy, and a lower vibrational one -- but why do some choose to exist in the lower vibrational realms?

Expand  

I don't think identifying with dark energies or archetypes is necessarily a reflection of lower vibrational energies. Horns were associated animals long before they were associated with demons. The animalistic side of human nature became associated with "evil" under monotheism in general and under Christianity specifically, because a dualistic perspective forced people to think in terms of Good vs. Evil, Light vs. Dark, or high frequency vs. low frequency. It's true that certain mental states tend to keep us stuck in unhappy feelings and circular behaviors, but sadness and anger also serve necessary functions.

I met a guy in SL once who was using a snake avatar at an Adult venue. I thought that was clever and started talking with him. He turned out to have a "darker" personality than I liked, so I ended up unfriending him.  On the otherhand, I've also met horned "demonic" avatars who were perfectly nice people. I might be repelled by someone who wears bruises or scars on their avatar, but one woman I met wore scars on her wrists as a reminder of having survived a suicide attempt. One just needs to get to know people better before assuming to understand what their avatar appearance means.

Well I'm thinking of lower vibrational energies as energy that is more concerned with the self, and higher vibrational energies move beyond that to a degree.

Like you, I have met plenty of loving people identifying with dark-type avatars. I've also met dark-type avatars who believe in harming others and attempt to do so.  Yes, I think you're right there...you have to know the person to fully understand what this 'darkness' means for them.

[Luna Bliss]

On 7/5/2023 at 1:14 PM, Love Zhaoying said:

everyone is a little selfish.  Those who portray a "darker side" just aren't afraid to show that part of themselves that the rest of us hide.

Maybe. But I still don't get it. If they just did that part of the time in SL I might understand, but for some it's all they are in SL -- this dark thing.

To me it's incomprehensible and a bit silly...it would be like me (who believes in love, light, and trying to make the world a better place) running around as an Angel all the time, dressed in white with wings.  Just silly.

I have to say though, that I really believe in this quote from Jung, and it's been on my Profile for quite some time:

“One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious.“
Carl Jung

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

Maybe. But I still don't get it. If they just did that part of the time in SL I might understand, but for some it's all they are in SL -- this dark thing.

To me it's incomprehensible and a bit silly...it would be like me (who believes in love, light, and trying to make the world a better place) running around as an Angel all the time, dressed in white with wings.  Just silly.

I have to say though, that I really believe in this quote from Jung, and it's been on my Profile for quite some time:

“One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious.“
Carl Jung

Well, you're missing the obvious answer. Because it is taboo.

[Luna Bliss]

15 hours ago, cirleen said:

My personal belief is that rituals and ceremonies are not really necessary, subconscious processes go on all the time in response to conscious awareness. Labels and ceremonies are absolutely necessary for communication and they help get everyone on the same page but generally I don't think it's a good idea to accustom the subconscious to requiring a conscious command. The subconscious is like a river that needs to flow freely. Ceremonial details can be complex or personal, creating a barrier to understanding, but at the same time a language must be learned to be able to speak. There may be hindrances with rituals as well if the needed items are lacking or if a timeframe needs to be waited for. Instead of ceremonially directing the subconscious I think it's a far better idea to become comfortable with one's own subconscious through friendship, compassion, contentment, and happiness. Everything will work fine and creativity will flow just by doing that. And I like dandelions, they're the perfect symbol for my posts in the forum garden. So I'm a dandelion too, happy dandelion day, I'll celebrate it annually from now on, thanks.

Hello fellow Dandelion! lol

I agree that it generally wouldn't be a good idea to "accustom the subconscious to requiring a conscious command", but ceremonies/rituals don't have to accustom the subconscious to it -- a ceremony can just be an adjunct used from time-to-time, alongside any subconscious awareness that develops as one moves through their day.
Also, if one did become too accustomed to a ritual, dependent on it, I don't think it would continue to supply subconscious awareness -- one would just be 'going through the motions' as does happen in various religious practices, or as happens in our encounter with anything -- the newness, the change we are seeking, ceases to exist and the encounter feels 'dead'.

I understand how it's easy to think some sort of directive by the conscious mind would mean it's controlling us further, but perhaps it's directing us in a beneficial way in such a case, and serving as the emissary rather than the master, as it should be in a balanced psyche.

There's a book I like that speaks to this, named "The Master and His Emissary: The Divided Brain and the Making of the Western World".  The premise is that what has gone wrong with the human mind is that the conscious mind thinks it's the Master of the subconscious, when in reality it should be the subconscious mind's emissary..

Anyway, I'm very glad you brought this up -- your perception of rituals.  It has caused me to consider, just what are the best rituals? I think one's that are more open-ended would be (without much instruction as to what insights we need to be receiving during the ritual process). In other words, a good ritual just kind of sets the stage for us, much like my lighting the incense I love does, along with a candle that reminds me to go inward and reflect, and some beautiful music along with it that says to me "this is a beautiful day"!!!

With the ritual/ceremony I opened this thread with, where I am a dandelion, there was no instruction as to how I should feel or what I should experience, and so it was very open-ended. There were, however, certain parameters around it, a premise to be agreed to before I could benefit, although some may develop this premise along the way. The premise being "here we come together to honor what we too often ignore -- the plant and animal kingdoms we depend upon for our lives. Let's honor them, and develop an awareness of what they bring to us. Choose one you are identifying with and dig deep -- listen and discover what might it tell you about yourself and life in general. Now thank your chosen Totem for this gift, and offer it a gift in return. Your Totem is now part of you, and you can access this knowledge any time".
In addition, listening to what other participants in the ritual experienced with their Totem experience brought awareness to me too, regarding both their personal journey and hidden aspects I may not have considered in the plant and animal kingdoms.
Music, dancing in sync and in a circle with others, alongside a beautiful visual environment is all part of it, taking us beyond the conscious mind into feelings and subconscious processes, where we move beyond theory and real change has a chance to take place.

There are many types of rituals, some better than others. And something I've been thinking about lately relates to this -- is psychotherapy, or certain types of therapy (or even techniques designed to access the subconscious in group gatherings), that are in effect a type of ritual/ceremony designed to evoke greater processing of our deeper minds, actually beneficial?
(I participate or have participated in all three of these in SL -- ceremonies/rituals, actual therapy, and I lead a group where we use art to evoke feelings/subconscious processes related to losses/deaths we've experienced in both 2nd and 1st life).

Your belief assumes (if I'm interpreting you correctly) that we should not nudge ourselves to greater awareness, not apply any pressure, because our deeper self knows what's best, knows when the time is right to experience these deeper levels. I do see some validity in this viewpoint, as the subconscious mind actually knows us better than our conscious mind (but of course the conscious mind thinks it does...lol).  Therein lies the problem -- that stubborn conscious mind that thinks it's the be all and end all and wants to control everything, and so this problem inherent in the conscious mind causes me to entertain the idea that (because sometimes the conscious mind and its defenses has such a grip on the entire psyche) it's okay to nudge our psyche's a bit so that greater awareness can develop.

But your assumption is that it would be the more conscious mind interfering with our growth process and controlling us by leading us into ritual. But what if it is actually the subconscious mind leading us into rituals? lol For me that is indeed the case -- it is the deeper aspects of myself telling me to free myself from the patterns developed by the conscious mind -- it calls to me, saying "here, come experience reality in its truest form, it's essence, and know how everything in life is connected and not so separate as your conscious mind believes. Let go of that control.
It has not always been that way for me though. I had to get past that place where I thought I was 'supposed' to do a ritual, mainly with the ritual of meditation, and that was indeed my conscious mind trying to force myself into something. Now I just sit down and meditate -- it was so easy all along if only I realized that! lol

There has been much study of psychological defenses, which is basically what we're talking about here -- how people will grab onto a belief or behavior they imagine they need in order to feel safe, and fight to the death to maintain a mental structure (pattern) in their brain that is ruining their life (denial, repression, projection -- just to name a few).
Of course in our discussion we're speaking to transpersonal realities too as something the conscious mind tried to defend against. So sometimes a little nudging is in order to get the conscious mind to step back to its place as of servant to the subconscious instead of being the controlling master, a little pressure applied via our consent, to overcome limiting and/or destructive patterns.

We can do cognitive therapy, self-talk, but often this does not reach the deepest places in us, and so remains a theory. But music & dancing, and 'setting the stage' visually (like the rituals I participate in withing SL}, goes much deeper and so affects change.

All I know for sure, is that due to beliefs buried in my subconscious (from socialization), I might wake up stressed out about what I'm supposed to do that day, or thinking about who behaved in a way I did not like, and my conscious mind sometimes directs me in ways not so beneficial to me.
And so I perform a ritual -- I light the incense and take in the beauty of a delicious smell, and light a candle to focus my attention more inward, and play a beautiful song about how beautiful the morning is. And then, when I go about my day, the world is much more beautiful!

~aṁmrit velaa sach naau vaḍiaaee veechaar~
In the Amrit Vaylaa (time of nectar), chant the True Name, and contemplate His Glorious Greatness.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Well, you're missing the obvious answer. Because it is taboo.

so you mean you think they're doing it just because it's a rebellious thing to do, kind of like an adolescent would behave?

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

10 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Well, you're missing the obvious answer. Because it is taboo.

so you mean you think they're doing it just because it's a rebellious thing to do, kind of like an adolescent would behave?

You're oversimplifying it..

Because EVERYTHING works that way, even if you are an adult. 🙂

 

[Luna Bliss]

11 hours ago, Maitimo said:

I don't think it always means a great deal, beyond roleplay, tbh.  Do you remember Greville Oh, who was the owner of the original Chiaroscuro? He styled himself as a "Prince of Darkness", his avatar was a Drow (dark elf) with black skin. He dressed like a typical old-school goth. And yet, he was one of the sweetest, gentlest people I ever met. He hated violence in any form, he couldn't even bring himself to watch a series like Star Trek or Doctor Who because the guns and violence in it were too much for him. He was generous and altruistic, giving up many hours of his time every day, and a significant portion of his income, to help those whose needs he considered greater than his own. 

So why did he always dress up like a dark elf in SL? I think he merely liked the aesthetic of it. He certainly didn't act like one. Although - @Love Zhaoying mentioned lust - and you may have something there; Grev was nothing if not a very lustful person.  But even then, he only acted as such with those who were willing to match him. I never was, and though he asked me for a sexual relationship on one or two occasions, I declined and he never pushed the matter or tried to persuade me otherwise. Despite that, there was a deep mutual love between us. He described me as the light against his shadow, but in truth, I see it the other way round. I carry a great deal of psychological baggage from my past and he was the light against my shadow. 

I have a tendency to be stubborn, serious and rather inflexible; I see this as a weakness but to Greville it was a strength; one that we used together to achieve things like getting Fantasy Gay Pride set up and open on time; something which his scatter-brain almost certainly could not have achieved on his own.

I miss him so much.

Then there are those who dress as demons/dark elves AND act like them too. Those people are selfish, power-hungry and deliberately seek to dominate over others.  I see people like that as another facet of the type outside of SL who seek to dominate those weaker than themselves, whether in business, politics, sex and romantic/marital relationships etc. I think narcissism plays a part here, along with self-centeredness and a lust for power.

Lust again - but not limited to sexual lust.

What a lovely experience, with Greville.

Yeah I think most are as you described initially -- just roleplaying.

But like you, I've met some who were pretty damm creepy. So creepy I don't EVEN want to go into it here.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Luna Bliss