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How do I buy mainland land for a group? Do I buy it first then deed to group? Are there consequences/double costs of doing that?

PrueBowers

By PrueBowers,
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PrueBowers

PrueBowers

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Thanks So Whimsy...I had read this before. When I go to buy land I often dont see that button - simply isnt there. I am happy buying in my own account then deeding - my concern is that LL will then charge TIER twice. Does anyone know the answer to this?

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Alwin Alcott

Alwin Alcott

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6 minutes ago, PrueBowers said:

Thanks So Whimsy...I had read this before. When I go to buy land I often dont see that button - simply isnt there. I am happy buying in my own account then deeding - my concern is that LL will then charge TIER twice. Does anyone know the answer to this?

it will only make your tier higher:

if you don't have a sufficient level yet
or if you donate tier to a group and still buy for your own
or if you want to take back the land from a group and you didn't take the donation back first

As far i know you need to have your group active when you want to buy directly for that group, it's always possible to deed the land later also, the "about land" window has some buttons for that, and will also show if you want to make the contribution for the tier level.( but see 3rd point if you ever want to take the group off)

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PrueBowers

PrueBowers

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10 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

it will only make your tier higher:

if you don't have a sufficient level yet
or if you donate tier to a group and still buy for your own
or if you want to take back the land from a group and you didn't take the donation back first

As far i know you need to have your group active when you want to buy directly for that group, it's always possible to deed the land later also, the "about land" window has some buttons for that, and will also show if you want to make the contribution for the tier level.( but see 3rd point if you ever want to take the group off)

OK thank you. I am definately not seeing "Buy for Group" option every time I go to buy. Is all very confusing. Thanks so much for your reply Alwin

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Alwin Alcott

Alwin Alcott

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1 hour ago, PrueBowers said:

OK....I think I may have it (LOL...maybe). So, when buying land privately (before deeding to group later)....I should take back equivelant surplus land credits from my group...would this be correct?

yes, because SL does see donated landtier as "in use" also when the group doesn't actual own land at all yet.

But also a little trap there.. if you donate tier for land to the group you get a free 10% addition. If you really use that for the groupland, and take it back afterwards, your personal tier will rise, because you personally don't get that 10%

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Prokofy Neva

Prokofy Neva

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1 hour ago, PrueBowers said:

OK....I think I may have it (LOL...maybe). So, when buying land privately (before deeding to group later)....I should take back equivelant surplus land credits from my group...would this be correct?

It's easier to think of it this way: your group has to have the necessary tier to receive the land that you are going to put into it. So it's easiest of all to put the tier into that group to receive the new land, even if it means temporarily undertiering another group -- which you are forced to do in order to switch land from one group to another, there isn't really another efficient way.

You do want to avoid having any transaction tier you up to the next level -- even five seconds or ownership and even only 16 m can put you up to the next very steep level, i.e. 1/4 of a sim higher, if you don't watch the menus. I myself have had a strange experience lately where I didn't get any errors in putting a 512 on myself and taking a 512 Linden home, and putting the 512 left over in the group. Yet when I abandoned the Linden home, I didn't have 512 on me to use in a group. So did the error that you usually see on the Linden home taking glitch out? Did the groups lag and not update so i didn't realize I put in 1024 instead of 512? I still can't figure it out. But go slow and watch all the menus that spring up and usually you can't go wrong.

But you can also make sure to check the box "deed to group" and then even more important, "owner makes contribution with deed" so that the existing tier you hold that is keeping that land passes with the land into the group. It's failure to check that second box that can lead to the error messages.

Also make sure you have the right group tag on your head.

Let's say the Lindens have agreed to sell you abandoned land. You go and try to pick it up and can't. So you need to check:

o Do I have the right group?

o Do I have the right to buy and sell land in that group? Sometimes you forget to gives yourself that right.

o If buying land inworld from Lindens or other residents, have I put tier into the group ready to receive it? So no, you are not taking out surplus land credits or tier -- you are putting it in to receive the new land.

o If you are taking a piece of land individually owned by yourself, or which has been checked off to be deeded by another person, for you, the group owner, you have to check off "makes contribute with deed" so the tier goes into the group along with the land. Tier and land are separate. Tier is a blanket that has to cover land like a horse blanket on a horse. 

 

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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Sylvia Tamalyn

Sylvia Tamalyn

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5 hours ago, PrueBowers said:

OK thank you. I am definately not seeing "Buy for Group" option every time I go to buy. Is all very confusing. Thanks so much for your reply Alwin

Be sure you are going to the About Land box to buy the land for group. If you right click on the ground and just choose "buy this land", you won't see the "buy for group" option.

Edited by Sylvia Tamalyn
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diamond Marchant

diamond Marchant

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One case that might pop up is what happens when someone is selling you land at a discount. Do not have them set it for sale to anyone at the lower price because a bot may jump in and steal it. This happened to me once. The safe way is for the seller to use the option that allows sale to a specific person.

Problem is, if the sale is set up this way, the Buy For Group option is never shown to the buyer (unless this has changed, in which case never mind).

To deal with this, I have used the "borrow tier from another group" loophole (mentioned above by Prokofy)  to temporarily get enough tier available to buy the land. Then I immediately deed the purchased land to group and restore the borrowed tier. I do hope that LL still allows groups to be undertiered for a short time without penalty.

Edited by diamond Marchant
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Sylvia Tamalyn

Sylvia Tamalyn

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7 hours ago, diamond Marchant said:

Problem is, if the sale is set up this way, the Buy For Group option is never shown to the buyer (unless this has changed, in which case never mind).

 

I'm pretty sure that if you use the About Land box (rather than right clicking on the parcel to choose "Buy this land"), you will be able to buy for group, even when the parcel is set to your name. (Source: I have in the past few months bought several parcels that were set for sale to me specifically, and I always buy for group.)

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LittleMe Jewell

LittleMe Jewell

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9 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

landbots are prohibited since 2014
Linden Lab Official:Bot policy - Second Life Wiki
 

Yes, but unfortunately not everyone follows the rules. Hell, many folks don't even bother to read them.  *sigh*

We can AR when we discover a Land Bot, but that is often after they swooped up a piece of land that we wanted.

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diamond Marchant

diamond Marchant

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2 hours ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

I'm pretty sure that if you use the About Land box (rather than right clicking on the parcel to choose "Buy this land"), you will be able to buy for group, even when the parcel is set to your name.

Yes, thank you! I verified that just now.

 

4 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

it's impossible that bots game traffic.

Because bots are allowed for other reasons (e.g. group inviters, manequins), it is difficult for Governance to know when the intention is traffic gaming. They state in the bot policy that reporting abuses is not necessary due to monitoring. The existence of this policy suggests that such abuse is possible.

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Alwin Alcott

Alwin Alcott

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2 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

Because bots are allowed for other reasons

no it is because registered bots are not counted for the traffic, also group inviters, and others have to be registered as so.

Non registered bots are no bots but illegal use of accounts to game traffic.

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Alwin Alcott

Alwin Alcott

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49 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

We can AR when we discover a Land Bot, but that is often after they swooped up a piece of land that we wanted.

Yes, but i was thinking, not sure if that's right, that LL would act on such report with swooping the bot out, cancel the sale and contact the seller with the reporters name to work on a deal.

But the main issue is not really the bots, but the owner not taking all safety tools when selling land to somebody. Sell on name only is to prevent the bots.stealing .. Or make a deal for the whole prive and give a part back.

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diamond Marchant

diamond Marchant

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7 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

no it is because registered bots are not counted for the traffic, also group inviters, and others have to be registered as so.

Actually, the bot policy defines a bot as

Quote

Bots, or scripted agents, are avatars controlled by computer programs rather than people.

An unregistered bot is still a bot by definition and can be used to game traffic.

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Alwin Alcott

Alwin Alcott

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38 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

Actually, the bot policy defines a bot as

An unregistered bot is still a bot by definition and can be used to game traffic.

Bots háve to be registered .... is to find on every accountpage:

Scripted Agent Status:  xxxxxxx

'Scripted Agent' is our term to describe a Second Life account that is operated by a program rather than by a real person. These are often called 'Bots' by residents and are automated avatars that perform specific tasks inworld, generally without any human intervention. There are Bots that manage Land tasks and Bots that model clothing in stores.

If you know that a Second Life account is to be used in this way, as a 'Scripted Agent' or Bot, then we ask that you identify it as such here.

There are a few ways that Bots can be used that are considered a violation of Second Life's Terms of Service (see this article for more details). Identifying this account as a bot allows us to improve the Second Life experience for all Residents (for example, by improving Search results).

Failure to identify an account as a Bot could result in disciplinary action if the Bot is then found to be negatively impacting our service or otherwise causing problems.

 
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