Media Influence, Stereotypes, And RL/SL Comparisons

[Nick0678]

Ahhh a nice cigar with a glass of cognac. This is how someone should experience smoking.

[Rowan Amore]

4 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

Ahhh a nice cigar with a glass of cognac. This is how someone should experience smoking.

Why am I reminded of this?

 

[Luna Bliss]

54 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

In the context of my response to Theresa it was on a national level. Weren't you just mentioning about watching a documentary about the opioid crisis last week?

I have no idea what you're talking about so you're going to have to elaborate.

I'm basically only saying it's disrespectful to tell a smoker they have an "addictive personality" when there is no such proof this is a reality for all who smoke. There's no proof if every person stopped smoking they would desperately move to cocaine, heroin, excessive sex, overeating, or whatever we might consider an addictive substance or experience.

In most cases, they just like to smoke and for various reasons became addicted to this one substance.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[Arielle Popstar]

5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

In most cases, they just like to smoke and for various reasons became addicted to this one substance.

Ok so they become addicted but are not an addictive. Let me process that for a while and i will get back to you. 😏

[Nick0678]

Cheers to addictions.. (you only live once)

 

[Luna Bliss]

9 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

16 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

In most cases, they just like to smoke and for various reasons became addicted to this one substance.

Ok so they become addicted but are not an addictive. Let me process that for a while and i will get back to you. 😏

You said:

"Arielle nods, smiles and rolls her eyes at another who doesn't understand that if smoking is down, some other addictive substance is up to take its place".

I'm saying there is no such thing as an "addictive personality" as promulgated by Alcoholics Anonymous. There is no such diagnosis in the DSM-5 which is based on valid psychological tests, unlike much of AA theory.

I only bring it up because you frequently defend your positions via inaccurate sources.  (often Alcoholics Anonymous claims that have not been tested enough, as well as misinformation from other sources).

"‘Addictive Personality Disorder’ is a term many Americans search for online. It is also often used to describe the personality traits of people who suffer from substance abuse. But contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as an “addictive personality.” 

Despite many studies, scientists have been unable to come up with unified diagnosis criteria for ‘Addictive Personality Disorder’.

However, the DSM V, the current Diagnostic Manual for all psychiatrists in the US,  does list ‘substance abuse disorder’, where the patient abuses drugs, and ‘substance induced disorder’ where a drug causes psychiatric symptoms".

[Arielle Popstar]

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm saying there is no such thing as an "addictive personality" as promulgated by Alcoholics Anonymous. There is no such diagnosis in the DSM-5 which is based on valid psychological tests, unlike much of AA theory.

I only bring it up because you frequently defend your positions via inaccurate sources.  (often Alcoholics Anonymous claims that have not been tested enough, as well as misinformation from other sources).

"‘Addictive Personality Disorder’ is a term many Americans search for online. It is also often used to describe the personality traits of people who suffer from substance abuse. But contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as an “addictive personality.” 

Despite many studies, scientists have been unable to come up with unified diagnosis criteria for ‘Addictive Personality Disorder’.

However, the DSM V, the current Diagnostic Manual for all psychiatrists in the US,  does list ‘substance abuse disorder’, where the patient abuses drugs, and ‘substance induced disorder’ where a drug causes psychiatric symptoms".

First off, I don't rightly recall ever saying that "addictive personality" is a term used in Alcoholics Anonymous. Where I have used that term, it has been from another recovery program where addiction is a more all encompassing term for all addictions. As far as I know the only requirement for AA is a desire to stop drinking. If I have used the term in relation to AA, -my bad-.

As to the rest of your post and its attempt to split hairs between how you think AA or any other recovery program defines an addictive personality vs a person with an ‘Addictive Personality Disorder’, good luck. The more resources available for those who suffer from an obsession to consume too much of anything, the better.

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

First off, I don't rightly recall ever saying that "addictive personality" is a term used in Alcoholics Anonymous. Where I have used that term, it has been from another recovery program where addiction is a more all encompassing term for all addictions. As far as I know the only requirement for AA is a desire to stop drinking. If I have used the term in relation to AA, -my bad-.

As to the rest of your post and its attempt to split hairs between how you think AA or any other recovery program defines an addictive personality vs a person with an ‘Addictive Personality Disorder’, good luck. The more resources available for those who suffer from an obsession to consume too much of anything, the better.

Look, it's insulting to tell someone they have an "addictive personality" just because they smoke.  That's a serious accusation....an unjustly applied label, a diagnosis, applied to a person who in most cases just likes to smoke.

[Arielle Popstar]

7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Look, it's insulting to tell someone they have an "addictive personality" just because they smoke.  That's a serious accusation....an unjustly applied label, a diagnosis, applied to a person who in most cases just likes to smoke.

So it would be better if I tell them they have a ‘Addictive Personality Disorder’?

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Look, it's insulting to tell someone they have an "addictive personality" just because they smoke.  That's a serious accusation....an unjustly applied label, a diagnosis, applied to a person who in most cases just likes to smoke.

So it would be better if I tell them they have a ‘Addictive Personality Disorder’?

It would be better if you stopped calling them anything. You have no idea what their behavior might be if they cease smoking, and its disrespectful to assume you do.

[Sammy Huntsman]

I mean it would be better to take accountability, I realize addicts say that they don't have a problem. But usually those problems stem from other problems, and until they hit rock bottom usually. They won't recognize they have problems. That all being said, most of my addictions. And I have been clean from 2 of them for 7 years, stemmed from me hiding and self medicating during an abusive relationship. But when it comes to smoking, I started as I couldn't stand the effects ritalin had on me. So I picked up cigarettes when I was 19. I have since stopped and went to vaping, and I am loving it. As it is helping my concentration. 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

Did y'all really just say that ex smokers are using heroin, crack and other drugs instead? Sorry i missed that memo when i quit.. I guess i should go hit that pipe tonight... 

[Nick0678]

1 minute ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Did y'all really just say that ex smokers are using heroin, crack and other drugs instead? Sorry i missed that memo when i quit.. I guess i should go hit that pipe tonight... 

[Nick0678]

1 hour ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I mean it would be better to take accountability, I realize addicts say that they don't have a problem. But usually those problems stem from other problems, and until they hit rock bottom usually.

I admit it for many years i was addicted to  fast cars, well cooked food, whiskey/vodka, smoking, multiple sex partners and generally spending money without thinking.  It was a terrible situation but i couldn't avoid it cause i am a very weak man.

[Arielle Popstar]

22 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

I'm sure you would.

There's an interesting dynamic in these threads. Apparently nicotine is harmless, smoking is an anti-gateway drug that keeps people from freebasing cocaine, etc. 

For the record, I'm not the one saying to regulate portrayals of smoking, making it illegal, etc. I'm just responding to people who are defending smoking. If you want to say, "Yeah, smoking isn't great but I do it anyway. So what?" I'd have no problem with it.

But, yeah, it isn't great.

Obviously smoking is not great but it is killing me a lot less slowly than the alcohol and drugs I was into years ago. I did try to stop it all including cigarettes but I quickly realized I did not have enough space in the backyard for all the bodies that would have accumulated so I decided that as smoking was the lesser of the other evils, I would continue it and look at stopping it at some future date.

[Maryanne Solo]

We've had supposedly virtuous pics of deformed babies & blackened limbs on smoking products prolly for 10 years now.
This came from a irrelevant & useless politicians personal crusade to, (get her name in the history books), erm.. stop everyone smoking because her father died from lung cancer or something. 
The pics got more & more grotesque with not one iota of change to the amount of people dying from smoking.
But someone must have kicked up a stink cause we don't see the most offensive pictures anymore.

I do know that in the 70's? television here had government sponsored ads saying that nicotine was more addictive than heroin.
Just ban it.
 

[Arielle Popstar]

On 10/6/2021 at 2:13 PM, Luna Bliss said:

You said:

"Arielle nods, smiles and rolls her eyes at another who doesn't understand that if smoking is down, some other addictive substance is up to take its place".

I'm saying there is no such thing as an "addictive personality" as promulgated by Alcoholics Anonymous. There is no such diagnosis in the DSM-5 which is based on valid psychological tests, unlike much of AA theory.

I only bring it up because you frequently defend your positions via inaccurate sources.  (often Alcoholics Anonymous claims that have not been tested enough, as well as misinformation from other sources).

"‘Addictive Personality Disorder’ is a term many Americans search for online. It is also often used to describe the personality traits of people who suffer from substance abuse. But contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as an “addictive personality.” 

Despite many studies, scientists have been unable to come up with unified diagnosis criteria for ‘Addictive Personality Disorder’.

However, the DSM V, the current Diagnostic Manual for all psychiatrists in the US,  does list ‘substance abuse disorder’, where the patient abuses drugs, and ‘substance induced disorder’ where a drug causes psychiatric symptoms".

Did you happen to read the rest of the page you pulled that quote from in your post? I happened across it tonight and saw it was quite complimentary of Alcoholics Anonymous and other 12 Step programs as being the best method of recovery.

_________________________________________________________________________________

"What are the treatments for ‘addictive personality disorder’?

Addictions can be treated with a combination of medication and therapy.

However, by far, the most popular treatment for addiction in the US is participation in the programs run by Alcoholics Anonymous (AA). This organization, now at 2 million members, is not run by mental health professionals. Instead, it works through peer groups with a flat hierarchy, where people struggling with addiction meet anonymously and process their substance abuse experience.

The AA program has existed since 1934. The main principle is the so-called 12 Step Program, a tool for self-reflection and behavior modification.

AA also provides a mentoring system where members get support from another addict who has been in recovery for at least two years. That mentor is available 24/7 to help prevent relapse.

Part of the AA program is to frame addiction as a disease, and to move away from blaming the addict for their addiction, while putting emphasis on personal transformation and 100% sobriety.

AA has expanded into programs that apply the 12 Step Program to other substance addictions, such as NA (Narcotics Anonymous), addiction based behaviors such as OA (Overeaters Anonymous) and so-called non-substance addictions such as SAA (Sex Addicts Anonymous).

Non-substance addictions remain controversial as a concept, since there is no scientific foundation for ‘Addictive Personality Disorder’. However, unwanted behaviors also seem to respond very well to AA methods.

Outlook

Research is still ongoing regarding the exact causes of specific addictions, as well as the general mental health conditions of those who succumb to substance abuse.

So far, AA and AA-related programs offer the best recovery options."

https://compasscounseling.org/understanding-addictive-personality-disorder-symptoms-and-treatment/

 

 

 

[Luna Bliss]

14 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Did you happen to read the rest of the page you pulled that quote from in your post? I happened across it tonight and saw it was quite complimentary of Alcoholics Anonymous and other 12 Step programs as being the best method of recovery.

I've never said I thought AA or 12 step programs were 'all bad' -- I've known more than a few people that were helped by such groups and research indicates it can be helpful. My issue is with the way you frequently distort the philosophy inherent in AA when you apply it to people outside AA groups -- it doesn't always apply though some principles might.
And just because AA works for some people does not mean all their psychological explanations are accurate -- we really need extensive studies to verify whether their psychological explanations are likely valid.

Specifically, I've taken issue with your labeling those who smoke as having addictive personalities (assuming that if they gave up smoking they would automatically replace it with another vice). Studies show that many become addicted to smoking and upon ceasing never become addicted to another substance or experience.

Also, just because I quoted some information on a website because it clearly explains the issues with the term "addictive personality" it does not automatically follow that I agree with everything on the website. That's why I didn't even link to the website.

[Arielle Popstar]

On 10/6/2021 at 2:44 PM, Luna Bliss said:

It would be better if you stopped calling them anything. You have no idea what their behavior might be if they cease smoking, and its disrespectful to assume you do.

Maybe then you should point out the post where I did that. I'm thinking you probably just misunderstood the context.

[Theresa Tennyson]

4 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Maybe then you should point out the post where I did that. I'm thinking you probably just misunderstood the context.

 

On 10/6/2021 at 11:30 AM, Arielle Popstar said:

Arielle nods, smiles and rolls her eyes at another who doesn't understand that if smoking is down, some other addictive substance is up to take its place.

 

[Sammy Huntsman]

On 10/6/2021 at 12:42 PM, Luna Bliss said:

This might be true for you -- I believe it if you say it's so -- but research shows it is not true for everyone. There are plenty of people who quit smoking but do not develop any other addictive behavior. And so I wish you would stop speaking of it as if it's absolute enshrined truth, sent by God to mankind. 

We discussed this before -- the idea that there is something called an "addictive personality" is a myth, began and perpetuated by Alcoholics Anonymous. Addiction is complex and the causes are varied. There are various conditions (mental health conditions and/or specific brain structures) that are tied to higher rates of addiction, yes.

If you tell me that you have a tendency to become addicted to substances or experiences I can understand that, but the cause is due to your own unique makeup which creates this condition and not this phantom "addictive personality" you assign it to.

That and I am gonna be honest with you, I see more people glorifying weed smoking, than I do see people glorifying cigarette smoking. 

[Arielle Popstar]

21 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Arielle nods, smiles and rolls her eyes at another who doesn't understand that if smoking is down, some other addictive substance is up to take its place.

 

Don't think she was meaning that post as it was a response to your posting the link https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2018/p0118-smoking-rates-declining.html as if it was some success story. It isn't simply because of the propensity to substitute addictions in general.

Quote

 

A common risk for people addicted to one toxic behavior or substance is to become addicted to another. It’s also common for one addiction to lead to another — a phenomenon called multiple addictions.

In these cases, an addict may get to a point where they no longer feel the pleasure they once did. This may cause them to engage in another addictive activity in order to experience the same amount of satisfaction. Almost 65 percent of recovering addicts also experience issues with anxiety, depression, alcohol, eating disorders, gambling or impulse control.

https://www.gatewayfoundation.org/addiction-blog/substitute-addictions/

 

 

[Luna Bliss]

25 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Don't think she was meaning that post as it was a response to your posting the link https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2018/p0118-smoking-rates-declining.html as if it was some success story. It isn't simply because of the propensity to substitute addictions in general.

Quote

In your link from the treatment center you posted they are talking about people with serious addictions in their treatment center who have a substance abuse disorder, and so it doesn't apply to the average smoker:

 Addiction replacement, also known as addiction substitution or transfer addiction, refers to an individual in recovery or rehabilitation replacing one addiction with another. This usually occurs when the emotional or psychological need that drove the initial addiction is still present and compels the individual to switch addictions.

Research shows that individuals with mental health disorders are more at risk for developing an addiction than other populations.

[Sammy Huntsman]

On 10/6/2021 at 2:31 PM, Luna Bliss said:

Look, it's insulting to tell someone they have an "addictive personality" just because they smoke.  That's a serious accusation....an unjustly applied label, a diagnosis, applied to a person who in most cases just likes to smoke.

Also Addictive Personality Disorder is a real thing it's in the DSM

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

That and I am gonna be honest with you, I see more people glorifying weed smoking, than I do see people glorifying cigarette smoking. 

People are pushing for pot legality and I do hear people discussing its virtues more instead of demonizing it as in times past,  but I don't see it represented in media to the degree smoking is...and it's increasing. What they call 'normalization of smoking' is on the increase:

https://www.dw.com/en/as-smoking-on-netflix-rises-fears-of-normalization-grow/a-50134803