The Darwin Spin Off

[Madelaine McMasters]

3 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

I was thinking more of the impossibility of knowing, or even being able to think about, something outside the physical universe.

It's like trying imagine what colours look like that are not part of the visible spectrum to us.    We just don't have the conceptual equipment, even though we know they're there.    Something that's not even subject to the same basic laws of physics as I am is so beyond my comprehension that I can't begin to think about it.  

The odds sure seem to favor our perpetual incomprehension, but I'm both an optimist and oppositional.

Not to insult us, but if there are people who actually have enough comprehension to begin to think about it, I hope they're not wasting their time in this forum.*

 

*Though who am I to tell anyone how to unwind.

[Love Zhaoying]

11 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I am the sum-total of all my parts.

If you have a "part" removed for any reason (by accidental injury, or an extra, or diseased, or problematic part), does that make you lesser than before? 

Edited April 2, 2021 by Love Zhaoying
Clarifying

[Love Zhaoying]

5 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Not to insult us, but if there are people who actually have enough comprehension to begin to think about it, I hope they're not wasting their time in this forum.*

No better place to see the width, breadth, and depth of the human condition, than on a Forum! Plus, we get you.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Love Zhaoying

[Ceka Cianci]

11 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

I know they are not useful and my oldest sister told me recreational drugs are used by people to let down or get rid of sexual inhibitions.  That is the No.1 reason people take drugs and possibly drink; i.e. going out to the singles bar.

As far as dreams, I just need rest now after my COVID vaccine.   I just need to take a good rest although I am feeling better than I was.   Hope your kitty is better.

Do you ever know you are dreaming when you are dreaming?

I think the first time I remember doing that was when someone was chasing me and I was horrified, then realized, wait what am I running for.. Then stopped and began to lay an asswhoopin on that man.. The strange thing was, when I stopped, me and him were both in a stable.. I knocked him from the one we were in, through the wall, clean into the next stable.. Then woke up energized as could be.. hehehe

[FairreLilette]

1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Do you ever know you are dreaming when you are dreaming?

I don't dream that much or if I do it's mostly not remembered.  I, too, like Madelaine said on the previous page once wrote down my dreams as an exercise and was not taking pain killers at that time and it was absolute nonsense from my experience what I wrote down.  

I think for us to know it's a dream, it needs to start to come into our conscious mind.  

I know some people love dreams and interpreting them but I don't find them useful in my experience.  I like dreams too but I have been a daydreamer since a child.  So, it's daydreams I really like.  I don't daydream like I did when I was kid though but I do think I can still tap into that daydream world and interpret it through my art.  

Edited April 2, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Ceka Cianci]

12 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I don't dream that much or if I do it's mostly not remembered.  I, too, like Madelaine said on the previous page once wrote down my dreams as an exercise and was not taking pain killers at that time and it was absolute nonsense from my experience what I wrote down.  

I think for us to know it's a dream, it needs to start to come into our conscious mind.  

I know some people love dreams and interpreting them but I don't find them useful in my experience.  I like dreams too but I have been a daydreamer since a child.  So, it's daydreams I really like.  I don't daydream like I did when I was kid though but I do think I can still tap into that daydream world and interpret it through my art.  

I don't read too much into my dreams either..

A lot of times they are usually stuff that goes on around here, nothing to strange.. But when i do get a strange one, I usually know I'm dreaming.. Especially nightmares..

Normal everyday dreams, I don't remember them unless something stands out, like someone I hadn't thought of in awhile.. But for the most part, just don't give them much thought..

Usually my alarm wakes me up and my first thought is, time to get ready for work.. hehehehe

[FairreLilette]

6 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I don't read too much into my dreams either..

A lot of times they are usually stuff that goes on around here, nothing to strange.. But when i do get a strange one, I usually know I'm dreaming.. Especially nightmares..

Normal everyday dreams, I don't remember them unless something stands out, like someone I hadn't thought of in awhile.. But for the most part, just don't give them much thought..

Usually my alarm wakes me up and my first thought is, time to get ready for work.. hehehehe

I see what you are saying.  Yes, when I had these recent bizarre dreams while taking prescription pain killers, I knew I was dreaming because they woke me up and I think I woke up saying "that is never going to happen" or something like that but it still is a kind of scary, bizarre experience like where did that come from because there is no reality basis to it and it had nothing to do with me whatsoever.  My Mom had to take prescription pain killers once also and told me she was up half the night with weird dreams.  

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Do you ever know you are dreaming when you are dreaming?

I think the first time I remember doing that was when someone was chasing me and I was horrified, then realized, wait what am I running for.. Then stopped and began to lay an asswhoopin on that man.. The strange thing was, when I stopped, me and him were both in a stable.. I knocked him from the one we were in, through the wall, clean into the next stable.. Then woke up energized as could be.. hehehe

What a cool, empowering lucid dream you had!

[Luna Bliss]

37 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Do you ever know you are dreaming when you are dreaming?

I don't dream that much or if I do it's mostly not remembered.  I, too, like Madelaine said on the previous page once wrote down my dreams as an exercise and was not taking pain killers at that time and it was absolute nonsense from my experience what I wrote down.  

Wow, my experience is so much different -- usually anyway. I've had some nonsense (or was I just not comprehending the symbols my unconscious mind was conveying?) but most of the time I get important messages. I've written poems and songs in my dreams, and they are much better than what my conscious mind can do.

Meditation is causing me to dream more, and to remember the dreams. Like you, I had stopped remembering my dreams much.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

It's amazing how our minds operate, dancing back and forth between a more conscious and subconscious awareness. Most studies point to conscious awareness as being the tip of the iceberg with much more going on at subconscious or unconscious levels than we know.

When creating optimally I always feel as if my subconscious mind has taken over, and have a sense that it's not me doing the creating but is instead coming from 'someplace else'.  Unfortunately it's not easy to relinquish control and let the deeper parts of myself take over, but when I do the result is so much better.

[FairreLilette]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

Wow, my experience is so much different -- usually anyway. I've had some nonsense (or was I just not getting the symbols my unconscious mind was conveying?) but most of the time I get important messages. I've written poems and songs in my dreams, and they are much better than what my conscious mind can do.

Meditation is causing me to dream more, and to remember the dreams. Like you, I had stopped remembering my dreams much.

I know it can be different.  I have a neighbor just a few doors down from me who is involved in interrupting dreams as a kind of hobby.  She totally believes there are messages in our dreams.

I have always been a daydreamer and this is quite satisfactory to me and my art.  I'm glad for it.  Night dreams, I don't have many.  Although as a child I was quite imaginative and I remember now having flying dreams as a child at night.  I'd fly over our whole town.  Those were cool dreams.  Other than my child flying dreams, I don't think I've experienced many good night dreams.  

But, that's cool about poems and songs you are writing.  I think if I did that, it would disturb my sleep too much and with chronic fatigue syndrome the most important thing is to get a good night's sleep.  

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, FairreLilette said:

6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Wow, my experience is so much different -- usually anyway. I've had some nonsense (or was I just not getting the symbols my unconscious mind was conveying?) but most of the time I get important messages. I've written poems and songs in my dreams, and they are much better than what my conscious mind can do.

Meditation is causing me to dream more, and to remember the dreams. Like you, I had stopped remembering my dreams much.

Expand  Expand  

I know it can be different.  I have a neighbor just a few doors down from me who is involved in interrupting dreams as a kind of hobby.  She totally believes there are messages in our dreams.

I have always been a daydreamer and this is quite satisfactory to me and my art.  I'm glad for it.  Night dreams, I don't have many.  Although as a child I was quite imaginative and I remember now having flying dreams as a child at night.  I'd fly over our whole town.  Those were cool dreams.  Other than my child flying dreams, I don't think I've experienced many good night dreams.  

But, that's cool about poems and songs you are writing.  I think if I did that, it would disturb my sleep too much and with chronic fatigue syndrome the most important thing is to get a good night's sleep.  

I think if you put intention into what you want (for example, wanting clearer messages from your dreams) it can happen. But doing this does bring 'stuff' up, sometimes welcome 'stuff' like poems and songs,  and sometimes 'stuff' that is hard to face -- and so in some periods of our life I'm sure the day-to-day is quite enough to deal with already!

[Madelaine McMasters]

6 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

If you have a "part" removed for any reason (by accidental injury, or an extra, or diseased, or problematic part), does that make you lesser than before? 

Unfortunately, yes.

I recently listened to an episode of NPR's wonderful "Hidden Brain", dealing with the rapid societal shift (in the US) towards acceptance of gay rights. Unfortunately, in that podcast a researcher also revealed that, though gay rights have come a long way since the Stonewall Riot of 1969, other groups are not fairing as well.

Researchers tracked changes in attitude reflected in the "General Social Survey" since its inception in 1972. From those changes, they've extrapolated how much longer it'll take for various societal groups to be accepted or reach parity. In 1988, the first year the survey asked about acceptance of same-sex marriage, only 11.6% of respondents approved. By 2018, it was 68%. That rapid shift was one of the most surprising changes in public opinion they've found in the survey. They estimate that, if the shift continues, anti-gay attitudes will be nearly eliminated by 2028.

Meanwhile, they've also tracked public attitudes towards women, people with dark skin, the elderly, and the disabled. Performing the same sort of trend extrapolation, they predict discrimination against the people of color will continue for 138 more years. Implicit bias against the elderly will still be with us 150 years from now. Though they didn't mention a specific projection for disability, they suggested it'll be in that ballpark.

They also didn't mention a projection for the elimination of gender bias, but I got the impression that's also not going away in the next century. Looking at employment data in the wake of Covid-19, I'd argue women have lost a generation in their march towards equality.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Madelaine McMasters
Maddy's "Comma Reduction Act" of 2021.

[Madelaine McMasters]

15 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

When creating optimally I always feel as if my subconscious mind has taken over, and have a sense that it's not me doing the creating but is instead coming from 'someplace else'.  Unfortunately it's not easy to relinquish control and let the deeper parts of myself take over, but when I do the result is so much better.

It's also very difficult to take control away from the subconscious. That's why implicit bias training doesn't seem to work...

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-problem-with-implicit-bias-training/

[Ceka Cianci]

9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

What a cool, empowering lucid dream you had!

Those seem to be the ones I have that happen in most.. Some stranger that will  all of a sudden get angry with me for some reason, or something will happen and someone will blame me for something  or whatever starts them up.. then they will come after me..

Sometimes it's running from them, sometimes I trip and can't get up or I'll just keep backing up and them getting more angry or pull out some kind of weapon..

Just out of the blue someone goes from irritated to violent.. I freak out for a little bit, then realize, Hey I'm dreaming, whoop the crap out of this person.. hehehehe

I never recognize them though.. It's never anyone that I know.. That or can't make out a face that I can remember..

crazy stuff..hehehe

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

18 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

When creating optimally I always feel as if my subconscious mind has taken over, and have a sense that it's not me doing the creating but is instead coming from 'someplace else'.  Unfortunately it's not easy to relinquish control and let the deeper parts of myself take over, but when I do the result is so much better.

It's also very difficult to take control away from the subconscious. That's why implicit bias training doesn't seem to work...

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-problem-with-implicit-bias-training/

Yes I remember reading about the problems with implicit bias training during the BLM escalation some months ago.

I wonder what the solution could be -- just off the top of my head it seems there would need to be some sort of integration between conscious and unconscious mind that might be lacking in the particular methods they're employing.  I'll have to take a look at what is actually involved in current implicit bias training. Surely there has to be a solution??!!      

[Madelaine McMasters]

14 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Some stranger that will  all of a sudden get angry with me for some reason, or something will happen and someone will blame me for something  or whatever starts them up.. then they will come after me..

Sometimes it's running from them, sometimes I trip and can't get up or I'll just keep backing up and them getting more angry or pull out some kind of weapon..

Moving slowly while being chased is an oft reported dream phenomena. My childhood dreams sometimes involved running in slow motion away from scary robots. I ultimately blew them all to smithereens.

While in engineering school during exam week, I'd have dreams that I'd forgotten to attend one of my classes for the entire semester and was completely unprepared. Most of my classmates reported having similar dreams.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Madelaine McMasters

[Luna Bliss]

Regarding implicit bias training and its lack of success...

Maybe some people just have more of an instinctual type of brain, like an animal, where once 'tracks' are laid down they're nearly impossible to change. Some lack of fluidity that other brains were gifted with?

I'm reminded of one of my kitties, who became terrified of computer and TV screens after he viewed a commercial where a train was rushing head-on toward the viewer of the commercial, moving faster and faster and getting noisier as it came closer. He totally flipped out. And now he hates screens and runs off when they come on, no matter how much I try to soothe him.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[Madelaine McMasters]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

I'm reminded of one of my kitties, who became terrified of computer and TV screens when he viewed a commercial where a train was rushing head-on toward the viewer of the commercial, moving faster and faster and getting noisier as it came closer. He totally flipped out. And now he hates screens and runs off when they come on, no matter how much I try to soothe him.

I have that same reaction whenever someone approaches me with a casserole dish.

I blame my mother... for thinking she could cook.

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I have that same reaction whenever someone approaches me with a casserole dish.

I blame my mother... for thinking she could cook.

The image of a casserole dish makes me feel sick to my stomach, and I never realized that until now. Not sure why...perhaps it reminds me of funerals and the gathering afterward with all the casserole dishes...as if they're trying to fatten everyone up to stave off death..

[FairreLilette]

15 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Maybe some people just have more of an instinctual type of brain, like an animal, where once 'tracks' are laid down they're nearly impossible to change. Some lack of fluidity that other brains were gifted with?

I just went to read the morning headlines and came upon this article.  What could/can cause these things?  It's horrid!  Any idea other than ignorance and evil?  

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-us-says-china-is-committing-genocide-against-the-uyghurs-heres-some-of-the-most-chilling-evidence/ar-BB1feqNN?li=BBnb7Kz

The Biden administration formalized its accusations that China has engaged in "genocide and crimes against humanity" on Tuesday as part of an annual State Department human rights report. The document cites Beijing's "mass detention" of the Uyghurs, as well as evidence of forced sterilization, torture and forced labor.

Edited April 2, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Ceka Cianci]

23 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Moving slowly while being chased is an oft reported dream phenomena. My childhood dreams sometimes involved running in slow motion away from scary robots. I ultimately blew them all to smithereens.

While in engineering school during exam week, I'd have dreams that I'd forgotten to attend one of my classes for the entire semester and was completely unprepared. Most of my classmates reported having similar dreams.

It's been a few years since I had any nightmares..

The last crazy dream I had which was really crystal clear and felt real, My first mother was in it, which she hasn't crossed my mind since like around 2004.. hehehe

That one happened over the winter..

We were inside some room and I was around a bunch of people that I can't remember ever seeing before, but they were really friendly and were asking me to stay in this room with them.. Then I noticed the floor had crops rows which looked like corn at first.. Then all of a sudden it was weed..

Then out of the blue my first mother is there and she started to talk to me just as nice as the other people..  I realized i was dreaming and didn't want to be there anymore and woke up.

I could tell you what the wood was that the stairs were made out of that i was sitting on the whole time. red finished Mahogany.

ETA: I forgot to add the part about the stairs .. hehehe

Oh and everyone was in night gowns, even the guys..

hehehe

 

Edited April 2, 2021 by Ceka Cianci

[FairreLilette]

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

It's amazing how our minds operate, dancing back and forth between a more conscious and subconscious awareness. Most studies point to conscious awareness as being the tip of the iceberg with much more going on at subconscious or unconscious levels than we know.

When creating optimally I always feel as if my subconscious mind has taken over, and have a sense that it's not me doing the creating but is instead coming from 'someplace else'.  Unfortunately it's not easy to relinquish control and let the deeper parts of myself take over, but when I do the result is so much better.

I was wondering, are you sure that with creativity we aren't in a higher consciousness as opposed to the sub-conscious?  It seems to me the sub-conscious is the stupider of the two.  Take for instance some of us drink at a party and get a bit sloshed and then we end up pregnant or with herpes because we stupidly had unprotected sex due to being sub-conscious driven or having our conscious mind disrupted due to intoxication.  

[FairreLilette]

36 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I realized i was dreaming and didn't want to be there anymore and woke up.

I can tell you I have had this exact experience and that is the reason I woke up...I did not want to be there anymore.  

 

59 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Maybe some people just have more of an instinctual type of brain, like an animal, where once 'tracks' are laid down they're nearly impossible to change. Some lack of fluidity that other brains were gifted with?

Maybe we have more levels of consciousness than just two - the main ones thought of - the conscious and subconscious.  Perhaps we are mostly in a state of mid-consciousness but with creativity and other experiences we can achieve a higher consciousness beyond our mid range throughout the day?

If implicit bias exists in the subconscious then I'd say the subconscious is very debased and selfish and often times seems void of logic and ability to reason.

[Love Zhaoying]

5 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Unfortunately, yes.

I recently listened to an episode of NPR's wonderful "Hidden Brain", dealing with the rapid societal shift (in the US) towards acceptance of gay rights. Unfortunately, in that podcast a researcher also revealed that, though gay rights have come a long way since the Stonewall Riot of 1969, other groups are not fairing as well.

I meant body parts! Yes, that was a good Hidden Brain episode..