would anyone recommend legacy female?

[JanuarySwan]

41 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

But if they are, then it's easier to just keep 2 copies of the body, one in BoM mode and other in applier mode and just swap between them as needed.

Oh, I see.  Okay, thanks.  I'm not liking the BOM skins as much as the applier skins.  The applier skins and make-ups just seemed to fit better.  I will be going to the Skin Fair (I think that's what it's called).  I want to see some of the newest BOM skins before I decide to go BOM.  

[Skell Dagger]

3 hours ago, JanuarySwan said:

The applier skins and make-ups just seemed to fit better. 

There should be no difference in fit between applier skins/makeup and BoM skins/makeup. If there is a difference then it is likely to be down to the fact that you're not using a BoM skin that has been mapped to your specific head and body's UV map.

With applier skins you had no choice but to use head- and body-specific mapped skins and makeup, because - Omega aside - the scripting was different for each type of applier HUD. A Catwa applier simply would not even apply to a Lelutka head, for example.

With BoM, you're just using a system layer. As long as a head or body has BoM capability you can use any system layer and it will show up, whether it's been correctly UV mapped to your specific brand of mesh head and body, or not. A poor fit when using BoM skins and makeup could be down to:

• using older system skins and makeups that were created before mesh heads and bodies were a thing. These would be based on the original LL classic avatar UV map, which - while it's the base for every head/body UV map in SL - is 'stretched and pinned' (the best way to describe it in very simple terms) around each head and body brand differently.
• using newer BoM skins and makeup that have been UV mapped by their creator to fit perfectly well on one head brand (X), maybe checked on another head brand (Y) that they own, and then sold as being compatible with X, Y, and Z brands - based on the principle that "they look okay on X and Y so they'll probably look okay on Z".
• using newer BoM skins and makeup that have been created for HD type heads when you own a non-HD head (or vice versa). An HD brow may look odd and stretched on a non-HD head, for example, and a non-HD brow may look overly-thin on an HD head.

There is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to things that need to be as detailed as BoM skins and makeup, especially when it comes to things that go on a mesh head. While you may find (for example) a makeup set that contains two options: one set of BoM makeup for Lelutka, and one set for Catwa/Genus, in reality that Catwa/Genus one is trying to cover two different head brands. And while those UV maps may be similar in the way that they're 'stretched and pinned' they are not identical. So you will find that - while they both look okay in general - if you really get up close and examine them in detail they both don't fit perfectly. Usually they will fit perfectly on one head and not quite so perfectly on the other, which indicates which brand the creator was using for the base UV map.

As an example of the above (and as a CSR for Catwa) I can point you to the 'Catwa lip line'. The UV map on all of Catwa's pre-HDPRO heads was quite specific regarding the upper lip. On a fairly regular basis we've had to deal with people who complained that their skin or lipstick didn't fit correctly on their upper lip (even in the case of 'Catwa appliers') - which became known as the "I have a white line above my lip" issue. This was always down to the fact that the creator of the skin/lipstick had not followed the actual lip line on the Catwa UV map, which is very clearly marked in the developer kit.

[JanuarySwan]

8 hours ago, Skell Dagger said:

There should be no difference in fit between applier skins/makeup and BoM skins/makeup. If there is a difference then it is likely to be down to the fact that you're not using a BoM skin that has been mapped to your specific head and body's UV map.

There is a difference though.  I bought a skin for my free Lilly head for a Lelutka and it does not fit on the nose; it has weird shading under the nose which I didn't notice at first but now I see it; the nose doesn't fit right and I paid 900 L for it.  I haven't found a lipstick that fits just right either as I like sheer and don't want a heavy lipstick.  Next, I was looking at shapes for Lilly and noticed some skins were "off", even one shape showed a skin with a very visible neck seam in the picture of the shape for sale.  It's on Mp but I don't want to use pictures of other people's work to make my point here as that would embarrass them.  

What I figure is by the Skin Fair I should be vaccinated for one and finances a bit more stable, as well as the best skin makers should be there presenting BOM skins for the Skin Fair.  I'm willing to wait as my search has been like a needle in a haystack.  There is one skin I haven't tried that says made for Lilly head but I'm not in any rush.   I don't just want a skin because it might be a rare one out now made for the Lilly head.  I've actually seen another one too but I didn't like the look of it.  

As far as your other points about lipstick, the lipsticks have always been difficult, that's true.  But, I think even more so now.

Edited January 6, 2021 by JanuarySwan

[Rowan Amore]

7 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

There is a difference though.  I bought a skin for my free Lilly head for a Lelutka and it does not fit on the nose; it has weird shading under the nose which I didn't notice at first but now I see it; the nose doesn't fit right and I paid 900 L for it.  I haven't found a lipstick that fits just right either as I like sheer and don't want a heavy lipstick.  Next, I was looking at shapes for Lilly and noticed some skins were "off", even one shape showed a skin with a very visible neck seam in the picture of the shape for sale.  It's on Mp but I don't want to use pictures of other people's work to make my point here as that would embarrass them.  

What I figure is by the Skin Fair I should be vaccinated for one and finances a bit more stable, as well as the best skin makers should be there presenting BOM skins for the Skin Fair.  I'm willing to wait as my search has been like a needle in a haystack.  There is one skin I haven't tried that says made for Lilly head but I'm not in any rush.   I don't just want a skin because it might be a rare one out now made for the Lilly head.  I've actually seen another one too but I didn't like the look of it.  

As far as your other points about lipstick, the lipsticks have always been difficult, that's true.  But, I think even more so now.

I use BOM on my lelutka head with BOM eyeshadow but always prefer applier lipstick since with those, I can use the slider and tone down the color.

[JanuarySwan]

34 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

I use BOM on my lelutka head with BOM eyeshadow but always prefer applier lipstick since with those, I can use the slider and tone down the color.

Thanks...that's great!  

About Legacy.   I found two pairs of pants I loved last night which are so cute and right on trend for 2021.  No legacy size.  Many clothes have no Legacy size.  I think if Legacy came down into the Maitreya price range, she might be more popular.   I'm not sure how Legacy really looks in pants though due to a gap in the legs it has.  It seems like every brand carries Maitreya and that is not so with Legacy.  Legacy interests me though but not at this price point at this time.  In a Maitreya price range, possibly, as I love skirts and dresses too.  

Edited January 6, 2021 by JanuarySwan

[Gabriele Graves]

14 hours ago, JanuarySwan said:

There is a difference though.

@Skell Dagger is 100% correct.  BoM and appliers are both texture delivery mechanisms, nothing more.  If the same texture is in both a BoM layer and a non-HD applier HUD then that exact texture will be shown with absolutely no mapping difference.  The most likely reasons your BoM layer(s) had badly mapped results is that 1) your BoM layer was designed to be used with another type of head and not the Lelutka head or 2) The BoM layer creator didn't do a very good job.

It is simple to verify what is being said here, find a product that has both a BoM layer and an applier layer in the same package (NOTE: not HD appliers) and then compare the results - they will be identically mapped.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Gabriele Graves

[Gabriele Graves]

To answer the OP and get back on topic, I wouldn't recommend Legacy female to anyone for much of the same reasons already stated but also because of a lack of trust in the vendor and that the server will not at some point get turned off.  It has happened without warning before with this product line and it left customers with a body that was almost useless.  It has been stated that the business was bought by another set of people but there is no ability for even the most discerning customer to verify this, for all we know it could simply be the same people reinventing themselves to avoid their burned bridges.  Even this set of people made broken promises about Omega support when they released Legacy.  They don't seem very trustworthy to me from the traffic I have seen.

Even if you ignore that, any product that unnecessarily relies on a server for important functionality is simply a time-bomb waiting to go off.  That may not bother some but I am the type of customer who would like to decide for myself if I want to stop using something I bought and not have that decision forced upon me by the vendor when they think I have used it enough.  Vendors who do this never specify the product lifetime at the point of sale either and as such it falls pretty much into the scam bucket with me straight away.  Yes I know a lot RL products do this now too but that doesn't make them not-scams.

In this case it looks like even BoM activation requires the server to be present to be activated and so even if a previously activated body will work when the servers go away, if you have to unpack a fresh copy because the one you are using breaks for some other reasons that happen in SL from time-to-time, you will not be able to activate BoM.

So no, not recommended in my opinion.

[JanuarySwan]

10 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

1) your BoM layer was designed to be used with another type of head and not the Lelutka head or 2) The BoM layer creator didn't do a very good job.

It's a Lelutka BOM skin.  I paid 900 L for it from a reputable company which is often on the recommended list by many SL residents.  In the pic below you can see it doesn't fit on this nose and has a shadow underneath.   At first I thought it was lighting because I was playing around with lighting but it isn't lighting...that shadow is there in all lighting.  Someone told me about Izzie's nose fix.  I tried Izzie's nose fix on it and it doesn't help the skin at all.  But, let's not further derail the thread.   I don't want to rush into another skin.  When one makes a mistake in SL that costs a chunk of lindens, it's time to take a break and wait, imo, so that's what I'm going to do.   However, this skin is not fixable.  As far as costly mistakes in SL, they happen.  

[CandyJewels]

As somebody who uses Legacy(although not exclusively), can I recommend it? Not for 5000L I can't. It does literally nothing any other body can't from what I can tell. You're paying double the price of most other bodies for slightly better looking armpits lol. Gabriele above brings up some excellent points as well. This company has shown us no sign they have changed anything, and we can't trust they are new people as let's face it.. they're kind of acting the same. Both use servers, which feels to me is a dead giveaway that they are in fact the same people, as other body creators don't do this.

Pray you never have to make an applier for this thing. Bom is a godsend compared to dealing with that puddle of what. Then as said, if Bom is also server-issued then lol good luck if they pull the plug again.

If you can get it 50% off(or more), then sure, go for it. Full price? Abso-freaking-lutely not.

[Marianne Little]

2 hours ago, JanuarySwan said:

It's a Lelutka BOM skin.  I paid 900 L for it from a reputable company which is often on the recommended list by many SL residents.  In the pic below you can see it doesn't fit on this nose and has a shadow underneath.   At first I thought it was lighting because I was playing around with lighting but it isn't lighting...that shadow is there in all lighting.  Someone told me about Izzie's nose fix.  I tried Izzie's nose fix on it and it doesn't help the skin at all.  But, let's not further derail the thread.   I don't want to rush into another skin.  When one makes a mistake in SL that costs a chunk of lindens, it's time to take a break and wait, imo, so that's what I'm going to do.   However, this skin is not fixable.  As far as costly mistakes in SL, they happen.  

But is it Lelutka or Lelutka Evolution? It's a difference between the new head line (Evolution) and the others. Your Lilly head is Evolution, and only skin made for the Evolution heads has "Evo" or "Evolution" added in the description. And no reputation or recommendation is so good that you can skip buying a demo and test on yourself. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by Marianne Little
typo

[JanuarySwan]

2 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

But is it Lelutka or Lelutka Evolution? It's a difference between the new head line (Evolution) and the others. Your Lilly head is Evolution, and only skin made for the Evolution heads has "Evo" or "Evolution" added in the description. And no reputation or recommendation is so good that you can skip buying a demo and test on yourself. 

It says BOM Skin for Lelutka Evolution.  I did demo it.  I happened to be playing with the lighting at the time and should have viewed the skin in a proper light - live and learn.  I just looked in my folder, however, and there is a shape enclosed.  I will try the shape and see how it goes.   Maybe not such a waste afterall if I can make a good shape with the shape enclosed.  Sounds like fun to try.  

Edited January 7, 2021 by JanuarySwan

[Marianne Little]

1 minute ago, JanuarySwan said:

It says BOM Skin for Lelutka Evolution.  I did demo it.  I happened to be playing the lighting at the time and should have viewed the skin in a proper light - live and learn.  I just looked in my folder, however, and there is a shape enclosed.  I will try the shape and see how it goes.   Maybe not such a waste afterall if I can make a good shape with the shape enclosed.  Sounds like fun to try.  

I have made my purchases that way too... Tried on a demo in a hurry, bought it and then thinking; maybe I should not have bought it? Live and learn, as you say. ❤️ It is good that you know about the Evolution line!

[Gabriele Graves]

12 hours ago, JanuarySwan said:

It's a Lelutka BOM skin.  I paid 900 L for it from a reputable company which is often on the recommended list by many SL residents.  In the pic below you can see it doesn't fit on this nose and has a shadow underneath.   At first I thought it was lighting because I was playing around with lighting but it isn't lighting...that shadow is there in all lighting.  Someone told me about Izzie's nose fix.  I tried Izzie's nose fix on it and it doesn't help the skin at all.  But, let's not further derail the thread.   I don't want to rush into another skin.  When one makes a mistake in SL that costs a chunk of lindens, it's time to take a break and wait, imo, so that's what I'm going to do.   However, this skin is not fixable.  As far as costly mistakes in SL, they happen.  

That is unfortunate but once again, if that exact texture that is inside the BoM layer was instead a Lelutka applier, the result would be exactly the same.  In this case it seems that the skin creator's idea of how a nose should be painted is off.  Sadly this happens from time to time but it has nothing to do with the fact it is a BoM skin.

[ClariceRose]

17 hours ago, JanuarySwan said:

It says BOM Skin for Lelutka Evolution.  I did demo it.  I happened to be playing with the lighting at the time and should have viewed the skin in a proper light - live and learn.  I just looked in my folder, however, and there is a shape enclosed.  I will try the shape and see how it goes.   Maybe not such a waste afterall if I can make a good shape with the shape enclosed.  Sounds like fun to try.  

Just saw this today, will this help you? It is on Seraphim under Fifty Linden Friday ad
https://gyazo.com/872dbbe30cdc991a4c88616f6fadd3e6