Do you need to vent about things COVID-19?

[Tolya Ugajin]

56 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

European countries do tend to trust their governments more, and so obeying or going along with government recommendations to a greater degree would follow from this trust.  Why do you think they trust their government more than we generally do in the US?

Because we fought a rather long and bloody war to get rid of a king, while they still have theirs, and have 2,000 years of history of relying on their kings (currently, their governments) solving their problems for them?

[Seicher Rae]

33 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

I hope the development of a vaccine isn't the same kind of 💩show the rest of the response here has been. If the fast track it and cut corners so human trials take place at the Walgreens pharmacy counter, it's not only going to be anti-vaxxers who balk at it.

Yes, that is concerning as well. It has been shown that this POTUS pays way too much attention to entertainment tv, some of it masquerading as news. And fictional tv shows always have this plot line where vaccines are created in hours or days and miraculously save everyone. I think a lot of the general public has this kind of expectation and hope. (No, I don't have hard numbers to support that belief, but that belief goes hand in hand with other stupid things people think all of the time based on tv shows.) I think there is pressure to appease that expectation and hope by moving too fast, and there absolutely could be consequences to that.

[Tolya Ugajin]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Suddenly you care about people outside of 'Murica?

What a vile and disgusting insinuation.  Pray tell, point out where I have said I do not care about people outside or "Murica".  Otherwise, stuff it.

[kiramanell]

1 hour ago, Sassy Kenin said:

 

 

Sheep, sheeple, whatever you want to call them, at least they're ALIVE... because they got vaccinated. The other ones, who fancied themselves smart, and had resolved not to be taken in by the propaganda of the 'FAKE NEWS!' government, they stood proudly apart. Sadly, their story got cut short rather quickly. Polio got them, and their herd died off. In the distance, you could see a plaque, saying "Here lies a brave anti-vaxxer. She was no sheep." Her family was very proud. Alas, they couldn't tell her story either, as they were dead as well.

[Tolya Ugajin]

3 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

Yes, that is concerning as well. It has been shown that this POTUS pays way too much attention to entertainment tv, some of it masquerading as news. And fictional tv shows always have this plot line where vaccines are created in hours or days and miraculously save everyone. I think a lot of the general public has this kind of expectation and hope. (No, I don't have hard numbers to support that belief, but that belief goes hand in hand with other stupid things people think all of the time based on tv shows.) I think there is pressure to appease that expectation and hope by moving too fast, and there absolutely could be consequences to that.

Trump doesn't listen to anyone, he just babbles.  He's like second-term Reagan.  Or Biden, but more vociferous.

We don't have a single major party leader who shouldn't be thrown into the sausage grinder to make Soylent Green.

[Seicher Rae]

4 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

Depends on the vaccine and the situation.  I don't take the flu shot, because I'm not particularly at risk.  I did have my kids immunized against pretty much everything, because they were.  One must weight the risks and rewards when making a decision.  Thus far, it seems there is no reward to keeping the economy shut down, yet the UN is projecting up to 130,000,000 additional deaths, not from the virus itself, but from starvation caused by the economic impacts of measures to fight it.

So, let me ask the SJW's among us, are a few hundred thousand projected (and we know how inaccurate the projections have been thus far) lives "saved" in Europe and North America, worth tens of millions starving to death in Africa, Asia, and Latin America?  https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/africa/coronavirus-famine-un-warning-intl/index.html

Thanks. If you had your kids immunized then I would say the answer to my question of are you an anti-vaxxer is "No."

I understand the concern about the economy. At this point, with numbers still coming in and shifting daily, and that we've not had this kind of "thing" in this circumstance... I understand the concern. I don't think there's enough proof one way or another. I do believe the experts who say opening too soon will kill more people. Will more people die of starvation in the US due to the economy? I'd *guess* not, and I see you are citing Africa, Asia... etc for the starvation. And no I'm not saying that American lives are better than African lives or something twisty like that. But if you're talking opening the American economy up to prevent American starvation...

I had to look up SJW.

[Luna Bliss]

13 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

European countries do tend to trust their governments more, and so obeying or going along with government recommendations to a greater degree would follow from this trust.  Why do you think they trust their government more than we generally do in the US?

Because we fought a rather long and bloody war to get rid of a king, while they still have theirs, and have 2,000 years of history of relying on their kings (currently, their governments) solving their problems for them?

Kings don't have power in Europe anymore.

Governments solving their problems?  You mean health care for all poor as well as the rich ones?  Maternity leave? Child care?  Decent vacations. Education for the poor as well as the rich?  A general sense of community which creates a healthier society and engenders trust in its institutions.  All the things we don't have in the US.

Oh yes, our rugged individualism in the US is so much better right?  Do you have any idea the amount of poor people we have in the US, hungry children, people who die without health care?  

Edited May 7, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Seicher Rae]

1 minute ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

Trump doesn't listen to anyone, he just babbles. 

With this statement ^^^ of course I agree.

3 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

He's like second-term Reagan.  Or Biden, but more vociferous.

Second-term Reagan had people around him who kept him from being perceived as totally off his trolly. Biden isn't my first or even second or even third choice but I will vote for him for sooooo many reasons, most of them being, "Not Trump." You get 10 points for using "vociferous" in a Forum post and bonus points for using it correctly. Biden says idiotic things but they are not near the idiotic things Trump spews. Biden makes gaffs. Trump wants you to inject disinfectant.

I mean ffs, Trump makes me long for the brilliance of W.

7 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

We don't have a single major party leader who shouldn't be thrown into the sausage grinder to make Soylent Green.

Yup. But in the better of evils, pretty much anything (except maybe Pence) is better than Trump. Yay...

[Sassy Kenin]

21 hours ago, kiramanell said:

 

Sheep, sheeple, whatever you want to call them, at least they're ALIVE... because they got vaccinated. The other ones, who fancied themselves smart, and had resolved not to be taken in by the propaganda of the 'FAKE NEWS!' government, they stood proudly apart. Sadly, their story got cut short rather quickly. Polio got them, and their herd died off. In the distance, you could see a plaque, saying "Here lies a brave anti-vaxxer. She was no sheep." Her family was very proud. Alas, they couldn't tell her story either, as they were dead as well.

AFK

Edited May 7, 2020 by Sassy Kenin

[kiramanell]

In this day and age, it's honestly hard to imagine someone with even half a brain cell being an anti-vaxxer. They will say something like "I don't need to get vaccinated against Polio, because the chances of me getting it are extremely low, and you need to weigh the risk." And that's the real kicker: the risk is so low... because ppl got vaccinated!

[Luna Bliss]

13 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

16 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Suddenly you care about people outside of 'Murica?

What a vile and disgusting insinuation.  Pray tell, point out where I have said I do not care about people outside or "Murica".  Otherwise, stuff it.

If you don't care about poor people, if you feel it's okay that a certain percentage remain at the bottom of society in the US so that more can be funneled to the top in the name of freedom then YES....I can't see you caring about the starving people you're suddenly championing who might increasingly starve if the wealthier worlds economies tank.

[Seicher Rae]

1 minute ago, kiramanell said:

In this day and age, it's honestly hard to imagine someone with even half a brain cell being an anti-vaxxer. They will say something like "I don't need to get vaccinated against Polio, because the chances of me getting it are extremely low, and you need to weigh the risk." And that's the real kicker: the risk is so low... because ppl got vaccinated!

And those same people never saw the horrors of polio, or other diseases that we did have quelched due to vaccine efficacy. My much older sister got a mild case of polio and that was bad enough.

[kiramanell]

Just now, Seicher Rae said:

And those same people never saw the horrors of polio, or other diseases that we did have quelched due to vaccine efficacy. My much older sister got a mild case of polio and that was bad enough.

 

Yeah. My parents have a friend who had childhood Polio. It's an extremely debilitating disease (especially on children).  And didn't FDR die of Polio?

[Seicher Rae]

4 minutes ago, Sassy Kenin said:

I have around 10 people here muted, they are the most notorious suspects on here often pushing the same group mob mentality & narrative.

I'm one of those big meanies (notorious now, huh? cool). It was due to this thread and easy to find out why I was muted. And...

5 minutes ago, Sassy Kenin said:

I do prefer a good conversation, good debate & good people not attacks by puppets.

... uttered in the same breath as talking about how many people she's muted. "Good conversation" means "agrees with me." Likewise "debate" means "If I say something totally ludicrous you can't point out the ludicrous or else I'll call you a troll."

There sure seems to be a lot of that popping up here lately. 

Funny, there are people who ARE capable of having a conversation and a debate. The ones who mute tend to be the ones calling people names, like mean, unfunny, and trolls.

[Seicher Rae]

4 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

Yeah. My parents have a friend who had childhood Polio. It's an extremely debilitating disease (especially on children).  And didn't FDR die of Polio?

FDR is said to have had polio, but there is some debate about that now. He didn't die of polio. He died of a cerebral hemorrhage, that might have been due to cancer.

[Seicher Rae]

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Sassy are you saying that people who believe vaccinations are necessary and should be enforced are sheep?

I'm guessing you are part of the flock that she's muted so we won't get an answer.  Because there's nothing like a good conversation/debate, eh?

[Sassy Kenin]

25 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

What a vile and disgusting insinuation.  Pray tell, point out where I have said I do not care about people outside or "Murica".  Otherwise, stuff it.

They want the so-called cure without a care what kind of damage it does to other cultures or peoples rights.

[Tolya Ugajin]

1 minute ago, Seicher Rae said:

Thanks. If you had your kids immunized then I would say the answer to my question of are you an anti-vaxxer is "No."

I understand the concern about the economy. At this point, with numbers still coming in and shifting daily, and that we've not had this kind of "thing" in this circumstance... I understand the concern. I don't think there's enough proof one way or another. I do believe the experts who say opening too soon will kill more people. Will more people die of starvation in the US due to the economy? I'd *guess* not, and I see you are citing Africa, Asia... etc for the starvation. And no I'm not saying that American lives are better than African lives or something twisty like that. But if you're talking opening the American economy up to prevent American starvation...

I had to look up SJW.

One thing I am willing to say out loud that most people are too polite to say is, everyone is gonna die.  It sucks, but that is life.  Whether it be from Covid or a bus hitting you or, like I hope for myself, drinking myself into a coma while having sex with 4 women and a midget (replace with whatever the polite term is these days - it's just so I look huge by comparison anyway), we're all worm food.  Yes, reopening sooner rather than later will inevitably mean more people dead from Covid.  Reopening later will inevitably mean more people dead from suicide and domestic violence and eventually murder and most likely from starvation in 3rd world countries reliant on the West's insatiable appetite for their cheap labor and natural resource suddenly not being so hungry.  It's a lousy bargain either way.

Here's the thing.  Businesses cannot stop themselves from going under, thus making their employees unemployed, poorer, more likely to lose their homes, more likely to suffer from all sorts of problems caused by a recession or depression, if they are prevented from opening.  I can, however, decide not to visit my 106 year old grandmother to eliminate the small chance I will expose her to Covid, and I can opt to only talk to my 77 year old mom from across the yard when I go over to run her errands and do her heavy labor, because their risk is far higher than mine.  Businesses can make decisions to continue having employees work from home, and all sorts of other options to minimize risk.  The current approach in 43 of 50 US states (and as far as I can tell every developed country other than Sweden) is to act as if preventing a single Covid death is worth all the long-term harm caused by the lockdowns, and, unfortunately, a large number of sheeple (as demonstrated by the reaction to my little post suggesting there is little evidence it's actually helped a great deal) become irrationally angry at any suggestion to the contrary.

No doctor or nurse or scientist or government policy in history ever saved a single human life.  We cannot be saved.  We're all dead, we just haven't gotten there yet.  At what point is the prolongation of X number of lives no longer worth the damage to the lives of the other 99.5% (or more, given the most up to date overall lethality rates) who will not die of the disease, even if they get it?  Sweden, South Dakota, etc. made the right choice, in my opinion, to know that more people would die, but that people could to a larger extent manage their own risk and make their own decisions based on their own situations rather than having some person in government make those decisions for them.

Or, in the words of a great philosopher:

 

[kiramanell]

2 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

... uttered in the same breath as talking about how many people she's muted. "Good conversation" means "agrees with me." Likewise "debate" means "If I say something totally ludicrous you can't point out the ludicrous or else I'll call you a troll."

 

Why, that's the thing. I'd like to think I'm a reasonable person. People want to debate what the effects are of, say, hurting the economy much further, and the damage THAT is costing, even in terms of life, vs. opening up the Economy again, my vote would still be on the former, but at least that's something ppl can debate on, with reason. I draw the line at sheer lunacy, though. Period. I'm not going to support someone's insanity -- especially not when doing so endangers the lives of others. Did they really perform an Alien autopsy at Area 51? See, those kind of conspiracy theories I merely find cute; but tell me ppl shouldn't get vaccinated, and I will just flat-out tell you you're dumb as eff. If that cause me to get muted by a few, so be it.

[Seicher Rae]

38 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

That "huge cluster" was no more than 15 people.  See, the "huge cluster" was only huge because of the low population in the area.

The numbers vary, like everywhere else, but the Smithfield plant in SD had 700-800 people test positive for the virus.

I couldn't find reliable numbers (I only tried a so-so amount) for the number of people who contracted COVID-19 or the ones who died from it, but obviously those numbers are far less than 700-800. The plant, btw, employs something like 1500 people. And is in what people in SD call an urban area. It was a densely packed area (no pun intended).

[Sassy Kenin]

21 hours ago, Seicher Rae said:

I'm one of those big meanies (notorious now, huh? cool). It was due to this thread and easy to find out why I was muted. And...

AFK

Edited May 7, 2020 by Sassy Kenin

[Seicher Rae]

Just now, Sassy Kenin said:

Gives you a hug goodbye, take care.

Totally not consensual, invading my space, and akin to assault. Oh. Right. Her rights go past my nose in her world. 

[Tolya Ugajin]

21 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

If you don't care about poor people, if you feel it's okay that a certain percentage remain at the bottom of society in the US so that more can be funneled to the top in the name of freedom then YES....I can't see you caring about the starving people you're suddenly championing who might increasingly starve if the wealthier worlds economies tank.

And I have said I don't care about poor people, where, exactly?

I can close my eyes and see the spittle of insensate rage flying from your lips while you slanderously misrepresent what I say.  I do hope your orgasm of self-righteousness feels good, but, frankly, the fact that you cannot attribute a difference of opinion as to how to best alleviate poverty to anything but hate and disdain makes you look rather pathetic.

[Sassy Kenin]

21 hours ago, Seicher Rae said:

Totally not consensual, invading my space, and akin to assault. Oh. Right. Her rights go past my nose in her world. 

N/A

Edited May 7, 2020 by Sassy Kenin

[Luna Bliss]

11 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

The current approach in 43 of 50 US states (and as far as I can tell every developed country other than Sweden) is to act as if preventing a single Covid death is worth all the long-term harm caused by the lockdowns, and, unfortunately, a large number of sheeple (as demonstrated by the reaction to my little post suggesting there is little evidence it's actually helped a great deal) become irrationally angry at any suggestion to the contrary.

I don't recall anyone becoming "irrationally" angry over your initial post. It seems Scylla was simply pointing out that your analysis of the situation was lacking. Myself, I have no idea what's best regarding lockdowns.