Plum face

[Phil Deakins]

28 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I suppose you've forgotten what I already said on page 2:

"One thing I've learned in SL over the years. Terms get misused or mean different things to different people. We don't have a glossary to go by. So who knows what the correct usage is? I don't think anyone does. We can only go by our experience. As a creator of prim jewelry I know other jewelers and myself always used the term as I defined it. "

Several of us have provided evidence of how the term has been used in SL for years. You've not provided one shred of evidence to back your claim. I wasn't dug in on my take on the word until after seeing others show evidence of the term. I then went looking for myself to see what I could find. And everything I've found supports what we've been saying. 

Peace out Phil. I'm going to do my best to not engage you again in the forums.

Actually, I did forget what you wrote on page 2. So you're saying that I'm right. I appreciate that. I really do. I was mistaken when I thought that the phrase wasn't used for simple prim edits, but I said that ages ago. But I was right that the term was used back then for another type of prim edit. So we were both right.

I've seen the evidence, and I've accepted it several times. Nevertheless, I provided a witness statement that the phrase was used to mean something different, at least by some people. I'm certainly not going to search for the post I read, or the other posts that confirmed it. They are way back in the RA archives. You can take my word for it, or not, as you wish. I don't care either way, and I'm more than happy not to be engaged again in the forum by you

[Blush Bravin]

On 9/12/2018 at 3:29 AM, Phil Deakins said:

It used to be that torturing a prim meant changing it in ways that are not available for it in the edit box.

There is no way to change a prim except using the parameters available in the edit box. Whether you swap out the prim shape during that process is irrelevant. 

On 9/12/2018 at 3:29 AM, Phil Deakins said:

Then the word started to be occasionally mistakenly used to mean changing it perfectly normally in the edit box, which is what the linked-to page is about.

You said the term was used mistakenly here. That's where you went wrong. You deemed it to be a mistake when in truth you were WRONG. The term as proven in this thread over and over again how the word was used correctly.

On 9/12/2018 at 3:29 AM, Phil Deakins said:

Now I only ever see 'torturing' used to mean shaping it normally in the edit box.

Normally???? Anything you do in the edit box is normal. That's what it is there for. So what that people figured out ways to use it further than the Lindens originally intended. That doesn't make it abnormal!

On 9/12/2018 at 3:29 AM, Phil Deakins said:

Accepting the fact that language evolves so that words change their meanings, or other meanings are added to them, I now accept that torturing a prim now also means simply shaping it in the normal way in the edit, especially as nobody tortures prims any more.

There you go again .. using the normal word. And again, your grand sweeping statement that no one tortures prims anymore. Again, you are WRONG!

[Blush Bravin]

44 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Peace out Phil. I'm going to do my best to not engage you again in the forums.

 

I often fail at my best intentions.  

[Phil Deakins]

1 minute ago, Blush Bravin said:

There is no way to change a prim except using the parameters available in the edit box. Whether you swap out the prim shape during that process is irrelevant. 

That's right. I already said that. All the edits are in the edit box, BUT not all of them are available for ALL prim shapes. That's where what some people called torturing came in. It was getting the unavailable edits to work on prims where the edit box for the particular prim didn't offer them. I've said all that before. You're just dragging it out.

You said the term was used mistakenly here. That's where you went wrong. You deemed it to be a mistake when in truth you were WRONG. The term as proven in this thread over and over again how the word was used correctly.

Oh yes. I was definitely mistaken about that. I've said that several times already. Would you like me to write it out in 100 lines? lol. I also said that some people used the word to mean something different about editing a prim. That's where I was right.

Normally???? Anything you do in the edit box is normal. That's what it is there for. So what that people figured out ways to use it further than the Lindens originally intended. That doesn't make it abnormal!

Oh but it does make it abnormal. If you can't do it to a particular prim by selecting an editing function to perform on it, but you find a way to use that editing function on the prim, then it is very much abnormal.

There you go again .. using the normal word. And again, your grand sweeping statement that no one tortures prims anymore. Again, you are WRONG!

I never said that no-one tortures prims any more. I don't know if they do or not so you are wrong about that. They do from your point of view, of course, and now they do from my point of view too, because ages ago I accepted that your meaning is a standard meaning. What I consider 'normal' prim editing is when you get a prim in edit, select what to do with it (e.g. hollow), and simply do it. If hollow isn't an option for that prim shape, but you find a way to do it, then that's abnormal. That's what some people called torturing. You might as well accept it, because there's no argument against it. The only argument you have is that the word was used for normal prim edits long before I thought it was, and I accepted that ages ago, so I don't know why you're dragging it out.

I'll put it very very clearly. Your meaning of prim torturing isn't the only meaning. There's nothing to argue about. The fact that you never came across the other meaning doesn't change that. I never came across your meaning before this thread, so I've learned something from this discussion. It would be good if we both learned something from it - and not that Phil disagrees with everything you say, because that's not true

 

[Phil Deakins]

18 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I often fail at my best intentions.  

I noticed

[Blush Bravin]

5 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I'll put it very very clearly. Your meaning of prim torturing isn't the only meaning.

I NEVER said my meaning was the only meaning. And it's not MY MEANING. It's widely accepted by creators. You are the one who argued using the term tortured as Callum did was incorrect. I argued for a broad meaning while you kept insisting that it originally had a very narrow definition. 

10 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

What I consider 'normal' prim editing is when you get a prim in edit, select what to do with it (e.g. hollow), and simply do it. If hollow isn't an option for that prim shape, but you find a way to do it, then that's abnormal. That's what some people called torturing. You might as well accept it, because there's no argument against it. The only argument you have is that the word was used for normal prim edits long before I thought it was, and I accepted that ages ago, so I don't know why you're dragging it out.

Oh my goodness! I think the biggest issue between our view of prim torturing is the use of normal. Basically, if I don't hack the system to make it do something different than anyone is allowed to do, that's normal. I never ever considered changing prim style as not being normal. It's a readily available choice in the menu. No where does it indicate that normal use means you can't touch the type of prim after you begin the edit process. 

[Blush Bravin]

Growing up, my brother would often get so exasperated with me that he'd start saying, "blah, blah,blah,blah..................................blah" to my face because I just wouldn't let something go and because he couldn't refute my argument. Believe it or not I've improved greatly since then but you can imagine how bad I was as a teen. I've even gone so far as to hang this in my room hoping that it will help me to pick my battles more carefully.

But today, it's not working! grrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Phil Deakins]

4 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I NEVER said my meaning was the only meaning. And it's not MY MEANING. It's widely accepted by creators. You are the one who argued using the term tortured as Callum did was incorrect. I argued for a broad meaning while you kept insisting that it originally had a very narrow definition. 

Oh my goodness! I think the biggest issue between our view of prim torturing is the use of normal. Basically, if I don't hack the system to make it do something different than anyone is allowed to do, that's normal. I never ever considered changing prim style as not being normal. It's a readily available choice in the menu. No where does it indicate that normal use means you can't touch the type of prim after you begin the edit process. 

You are mistaken, Blush. I didn't argue that what Callum wrote was incorrect. I simply stated that it was was incorrect. That's not arguing.

By "your meaning", I wasn't implying that you're the only who thinks it. It was merely differentiating between the two definitions.

After that, I did argue that it originally had a narrow definition that was different to yours. I was mistaken, and, as soon I saw that, I admitted it. There's no need to bring it up again.

Oh dear. I think we'd better leave the word 'normal' alone, or we'll be here forever. I am sure you know what I mean. If you're not, I mean that applying an edit to prim, which isn't offered for that prim in the edit box, is abnormal. It's nothing to do with the simple, normal, ability to change the basic prim shape. If you don't undernd what I mean, it's probably best to leave it alone, because the choice of a word doesn't really matter in this case.

 

[Blush Bravin]

4 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Oh dear. I think we'd better leave the word 'normal' alone, or we'll be here forever. I am sure you know what I mean. If you're not, I mean that applying an edit to prim, which isn't offered for that prim in the edit box, is abnormal. It's nothing to do with the simple, normal, ability to change the basic prim shape. If you don't undernd what I mean, it's probably best to leave it alone, because the choice of a word doesn't really matter in this case.

Oh, I totally understand what you mean. I just totally disagree with you.  

I'm also a you-can't-put-me-in-a-box kind of person, or tell me I can ONLY color in the lines. It never occurs to me to let anyone tell me to not step over a line and then call me abnormal for doing so. So it's just not in me to accept what your definition for normal is in this particular case in regards to normal edits.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Blush Bravin

[Phil Deakins]

5 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Growing up, my brother would often get so exasperated with me that he'd start saying, "blah, blah,blah,blah..................................blah" to my face because I just wouldn't let something go and because he couldn't refute my argument. Believe it or not I've improved greatly since then but you can imagine how bad I was as a teen. I've even gone so far as to hang this in my room hoping that it will help me to pick my battles more carefully.

But today, it's not working! grrrrrrrrrrrrr

You do seem intent on being the only one who is right, and it's not the first thread you've shown that trait in recently.

You are not the only one who is right. In this case you were right that what you understand by torturing a prim was used with that understanding long before I thought it was. You are right about that.

Where you are not right, and I am, is that torturing a prim meant something quite different to some people a long time ago. You never came across it, but that doesn't mean that it isn't true.

I don't know what there is for you to argue about. Your point about your understanding was made ages ago, and I agreed with it. Why do you keep dragging it out? You can't win.

[Phil Deakins]

2 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Oh, I totally understand what you mean. I just totally disagree with you.  

There's nothing to disagree with. I agree with you that the phrase used in the way you understand it. You can't disagree with that. And you can't disagree that it was also used to mean something else. Nobody would believe that something can't have happened just because they never saw it.

Stop dragging it out.

[Blush Bravin]

On 9/12/2018 at 8:47 AM, Blush Bravin said:

One thing I've learned in SL over the years. Terms get misused or mean different things to different people. We don't have a glossary to go by. So who knows what the correct usage is? I don't think anyone does. We can only go by our experience. As a creator of prim jewelry I know other jewelers and myself always used the term as I defined it. 

4 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Where you are not right, and I am, is that torturing a prim meant something quite different to some people a long time ago. You never came across it, but that doesn't mean that it isn't true.

 

[Phil Deakins]

8 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I'm also a you-can't-put-me-in-a-box kind of person, or tell me I can ONLY color in the lines. It never occurs to me to let anyone tell me to not step over a line and then call me abnormal for doing so. So it's just not in me to accept what your definition for normal is in this particular case in regards to normal edits.

I don't want to box you in. I just want you to stop dragging this out. You were right and I was right. We had different experiences so neither of us came across the other's understanding, but that's no reason to drag it on and on for no good reasn.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Blush Bravin]

2 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Stop dragging it out.

Is this about having the last word? You tell me to stop dragging it out and yet you respond every time. So who is dragging it out? lol

At this point, it's just funny!

[Phil Deakins]

No it's not about having the last word. Not for me, anyway, but I can't answer for you. For me, it's about not letting the last post state that I am wrong, because this thread has shown time and time again (because you keep repeating the same accusations) that I am not wrong. For you, it seems to be about repeating, ad-infinitum, stuff that's been dealt with multiple times, just so that you can keep on saying that I am wrong.

My guess is that it's a left-over from the Blueberry thread in which you mistakenly thought that I'd attacked one of your favourite stores/people.

 

Edited September 13, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Blush Bravin]

2 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

For me, it's about not letting the last post state that I am wrong, because I am not wrong.

 

[Wulfie Reanimator]

Could somebody explain what it means to "edit a prim in a way that's not available for that prim type?"

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Could somebody explain what it means to "edit a prim in a way that's not available for that prim type?"

If you’re quoting someone, perhaps they were talking out of their butt (figuratively speaking). 

[Phil Deakins]

38 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Could somebody explain what it means to "edit a prim in a way that's not available for that prim type?"

Perhaps the best way is for you to see for yourself.

Rez a cube and a sphere.

Open the edit box on the cube and you will see that the edit choices are Twist, Taper, Top sheer, and Slice.

Now click on the sphere and you will see that choices are Twist and Dimple.

You can't normally create a dimple on a cube, and you can't normally taper, sheer, or slice a sphere. You can only do the normal edits for the prim type.

Editing a prim abnormally, sometimes called torturing it, means performing the edits on it that are not normally available for it.

 

[Phil Deakins]

38 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

If you’re quoting someone, perhaps they were talking out of their butt (figuratively speaking). 

Some butts often speak with far more sense than some speak with their mouths

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Editing a prim abnormally, sometimes called torturing it, means performing the edits on it that are not normally available for it.

Oho, so you’ve got your own definition. I believe what you are suggesting is impossible.

[Blush Bravin]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Oho, so you’ve got your own definition. I believe what you are suggesting is impossible.

What he describes is quite possible and only one of the ways in which you can torture a prim. It's all quite normal as well .. nothing abnormal about using the tools Linden Lab gave you in the first place.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Blush Bravin

[Phil Deakins]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Oho, so you’ve got your own definition. I believe what you are suggesting is impossible.

Then, according to what I've read in the past, you believe wrong.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Phil Deakins said:

Then, according to what I've read in the past, you believe wrong.

Are you saying it’s possible in the edit window, or just with scripts?

[Blush Bravin]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Are you saying it’s possible in the edit window, or just with scripts?

Just using the edit window. No scripting needed. That's why it's just normal. Nothing unusual about it. It's just that some are adventurous and try things that aren't necessarily intuitive. We push the boundaries. Some like to call it abnormal.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Blush Bravin