Should commercial ventures and estates in SL be allowed to discriminate?

[Madelaine McMasters]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Same thing, depending on your POV. These same people probably don't believe in evolution.

Not quite the same thing for me. The idea of God presumes intent. For me, the result of that intent insinuates either malice or incompetence. It's easier for me to accept the messy nature of Nature if there is no intent. And from that lack of intent springs awe and wonder I cannot adequately describe.

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Madelaine McMasters said:

Not quite the same thing for me. The idea of God presumes intent. For me, the result of that intent insinuates either malice or incompetence. It's easier for me to accept the messy nature of Nature if there is no intent. And from that lack of intent springs awe and wonder I cannot adequately describe.

I beg to differ, the intent of Evolution is to Evolve!

[Madelaine McMasters]

10 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I beg to differ, the intent of Evolution is to Evolve!

No, that's the unintended consequence.

;-).

ETA: The Law of Unintended Consequences is my favorite.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Madelaine McMasters

[Luna Bliss]

11 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

For me, the result of that intent insinuates either malice or incompetence.

What if the purpose is to Evolve through the necessary pain that I assume causes you to feel  that 'intent' insinuates either malice or incompetence?

[Madelaine McMasters]

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

What if the purpose is to Evolve through the necessary pain that I assume causes you to feel  that 'intent' insinuates either malice or incompetence?

That seems like an arbitrarily complex explanation for the result of replication error and competition. It also confuses personal intellectual evolution with natural biological evolution.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Madelaine McMasters

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

What if the purpose is to Evolve through the necessary pain that I assume causes you to feel  that 'intent' insinuates either malice or incompetence?

That seems like an arbitrarily complex explanation for the result of replication error and competition. It also confuses personal evolution with natural evolution.

I am feeling more and more that there is a purpose to life, possibly to evolve...and that it is some kind of 'intent'...though not a type of intent us mere mortals can quite grasp at this point.

I maintain that belief for the most part despite the state of the world....and the state of this thread

Also, I'm not sure why personal evolution and natural evolution should not be the same...but perhaps you have reasons?

[Ceka Cianci]

I tried to catch up reading this thread from page 12..

I don't really recommend that kind of thing with threads like this..Unless it's just me that gets a pain in their brain behind their right eye from doing it..

Ow.....OW!

I think I'm actually gonna go blind in my right eye.

[Klytyna]

4 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

Cling onto that if it helps, but what you can't deny is that you were dead wrong about Ceasar having anything to do with conquering Britain

Which Caesar? Claudius Caesar?

You DO know there was more than ONE Caesar, right? Oh and in response to one of your earlier ill informed comments, as to being unsure if the conquest of Britain was ordered by an emperor or a Consul, Emperors WERE Consuls, for life, and Peoples Tribunes, for life, and First Citizens, for life. Oh and supreme commander of the Legions.

That's the basis of Augustus Caesar's Imperial reforms, First Citizen means you speak first on any Bill in the Senate, then if they persist in voting in something you don't like, as Tribune you can simply veto it, and as Consul you have ultimate judicial authority to restore order as you see fit, in the chaos that follows, including deploying the Praetorian Guard, and the Urban Cohorts, and even calling the Legions if required.

Stop gloating Phil, you are terrible at it.
 

[Madelaine McMasters]

9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I am feeling more and more that there is a purpose to life, possibly to evolve...and that it is some kind of 'intent'...though not a type of intent us mere mortals can quite grasp at this point.

I maintain that belief for the most part despite the state of the world....and the state of this thread

Also, I'm not sure why personal evolution and natural evolution should not be the same...but perhaps you have reasons?

It may be that people who feel there's a purpose to life, a benevolent overseer, and an afterlife, handle stress better than those who don't and are favored by natural selection. One could imagine this proclivity evolving over time, just as many physical attributes (eyes, ears, etc.) did. There's some evidence that "faith" has healthful effects. I wish I could avail myself of those, but I'll have to find another way.

I feel awe and wonder every day of my life, and understanding that this may be an evolutionary trait does nothing to diminish it. I have good reason to think that personal intellectual evolution is not the same as biological evolution. One occurs within a single thinking individual within one lifetime. The other occurs across countless organisms over countless generations.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Madelaine McMasters

[Love Zhaoying]

20 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

ETA: The Law of Unintended Consequences is my favorite.

Lazarus Long quote?

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

Which Caesar?

Caesar salad of course, silly.

[Madelaine McMasters]

10 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I tried to catch up reading this thread from page 12..

I don't really recommend that kind of thing with threads like this..Unless it's just me that gets a pain in their brain behind their right eye from doing it..

Ow.....OW!

I think I'm actually gonna go blind in my right eye.

Would you like me to massage that right eye, Ceka?

[Innula Zenovka]

14 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I think I'm actually gonna go blind in my right eye.

Oh no!  If that happens, you'll have to wear an eye-patch and talk like a pirate all the time, and that would never do.

[Madelaine McMasters]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Lazarus Long quote?

I had to look him up. I haven't read much Heinlein.

It's really more like dandelions. Caring for my lawn became so much easier when I decided they were my favorite plant.

[Luna Bliss]

4 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

12 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I am feeling more and more that there is a purpose to life, possibly to evolve...and that it is some kind of 'intent'...though not a type of intent us mere mortals can quite grasp at this point.

I maintain that belief for the most part despite the state of the world....and the state of this thread

Also, I'm not sure why personal evolution and natural evolution should not be the same...but perhaps you have reasons?

It may be that people who feel there's a purpose to life, a benevolent overseer, and an afterlife, handle stress better than those who don't and are favored by natural selection. One could imagine this proclivity evolving over time, just as many physical attributes (eyes, ears, etc.) did. There's some evidence that "faith" has healthful effects. I wish I could avail myself of those, but I'll have to find another way.

I feel awe and wonder every day of my life, and understanding that this may be an evolutionary trait does nothing to diminish it. I have good reason to think that personal intellectual evolution is not the same as biological evolution. One occurs within a single thinking individual within one lifetime. The other occurs across countless organisms over countless generations.

So you speculate the reason people believe in God is so they can feel better, feel secure. Well...could be..or could be some of them do. But just because some people believe in 'god' or 'intent' does not always mean they're doing it only to feel better as they bask in some sort of delusion.

But feeling awe and wonder every day, what I call 'love'....that sounds good to me!  I do believe that's what 'intent' is...despite the pain we have to deal with.

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

It's really more like dandelions. Caring for my lawn became so much easier when I decided they were my favorite plant.

I mowed my lawn on 12/31 (Florida)..and there were a lot of dandelions! On that note: being a gay “Neko Lion” in SL makes me a Dandy Lion.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

2 hours ago, Nalytha said:

 

 

So... what you are saying is that you think some of us in this thread are eugenicists who want to eliminate the white race? 

Huh.... that's weird... kind of goes against what I'd consider self preservation ... but ... okay... 

i never said that. i was just offering an example of wacked out thinking by some wacked out antiracists.

i read a line on an antiracism web site once 

"treason against the white race is loyality to the human race"

so yes eliminating whites thru preferential breeding is an acceptable strategy to some in the grand struggle to end racism

funny thing though it seems like racism against whites

[Madelaine McMasters]

9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

So you speculate the reason people believe in God is so they can feel better, feel secure. Well...could be..or could be some of them do. But just because some people believe in 'god' or 'intent' does not always mean they're doing it only to feel better as they bask in some sort of delusion.

But feeling awe and wonder every day, what I call 'love'....that sounds good to me!  I do believe that's what 'intent' is...despite the pain we have to deal with.

It's the other way round. People feel better because they believe. They don't believe in order to feel better. We're generally not conscious of this. We're all basking in some sort of delusion.

I don't much care how individuals deal with life, its pains, joys, or meanings, so long as they don't harm others to do so. Unfortunately, belief systems, whether political, economic, religious or otherwise, often have harmful side effects. Sometimes we collectively try to work through difference in our delusions to achieve something for the greater good, without ever admitting that we're all deluded. That's okay!

ETA: Everything I think is speculation. ;-).

Edited January 3, 2018 by Madelaine McMasters

[Nalytha]

 

.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Nalytha

[Madelaine McMasters]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I mowed my lawn on 12/31 (Florida)..and there were a lot of dandelions! On that note: being a gay “Neko Lion” in SL makes me a Dandy Lion.

Go outside and look closely, there are still a lot of dandelions. The Little Engine That Could has nothing on the dandelion, or the Dandy Lion.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Madelaine McMasters

[Love Zhaoying]

26 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I think I'm actually gonna go blind in my right eye.

Stop that, you’ll poke your eye out!

[BilliJo Aldrin]

2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

and Gadget said:

"To be fair, the whole "forced customers" thing is one of those lose/lose situations.

Without a law like this, minorties and the like may suffer. With a law like this, many innocent business owners suffer."

The fact that you have equated the suffering of "minorities and the like" with "many innocent business owners" demonstrates the crux of the problem -- there is no empathy or very little awareness on your parts that the amount of suffering by minorities is so much greater than what a business owner would experience.

Being considered a 2nd class citizen and not worthy of the same rights as others is a pain that causes immense damage to those targeted. It's the constant, unrelenting message of 'you are bad for who you are, you are not worthy of the respect others are given'. Feeling excluded causes poor self-esteem, unfulfilled potential, and even the terror of living life in fear -- all because one is simply born a certain way (a person of color, gay, disabled).
Really, you guys need to read some books, watch some movies -- whatever it takes to get a sense of how the marginalized people in a society experience life. I have a feeling that if some empathy really sunk in you would feel stupid for complaining about baking a freaking cake for someone.

im not complaining about baking a cake im saying people shouldnt consider their human rights or civil rights have been violated just because someone refuses to enter into an agreement to bake them a cake

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

so yes eliminating whites thru preferential breeding is an acceptable strategy to some in the grand struggle to end racism

Don't you understand that eventually this is going to happen NATURALLY as everyone intermarries? Without "intention"?

I'm quite sure you are trolling, at this point.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

im not complaining about baking a cake im saying people shouldnt consider their human rights or civil rights have been violated just because someone refuses to enter into an agreement to bake them a cake

So where do you draw the line? Refusing to give medical care? Refusing to allow them to sit next to you? Refusing to let them into your business? Refusing to let them join your church?

Do you see the problem? THERE SHOULD BE NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PEOPLES. No line.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

2 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

You've said some things in this thread that have led you to a very interesting place.

1) Government services should be equally available.

2) VITAL services should be equally available.

3) Private businesses should be allowed to choose their clientele.

 

When you put them together, you come to - 

4) No private business can provide a vital service, because their right to choose their clientele would mean that their services may not be equally available.

5) Therefore, all vital services have to be provided by the government.

 

Do you know what this makes you?

 

(wait for it...)

 

A socialist.

yes its true i believe that the government probably do a better job of providing cakes to everyone.

i think cake baking should be made a government service then everyone could have equil access to cakes