Finally --- at Aquila :D

[Chic Aeon]

@Aquila Kytori has been helping me out for many MANY years :D.  Five years ago she made land forms for MOSP (Machinima Open Studio Project) at LEA since mine were too "primmy".   I have had a problem at times balancing my love for detail and beautiful  line and practicality. What can I say.

 

I sometimes learn slowly. No augment there but now and then I have a brief moment when I feel I can pat myself on the back for a job well done and lessons well learned. Today was on of those days.

This is a BIG landform. It is also pretty (at least to me) and it has PERFECT physics in that you can climb and walk and such right on the ground with no floating or wandering inside the mesh. All good. And it is only 20 land impact which for something that big I am calling good. 

Happily it is also for MOSP -- but MOSP 3.0 which will be coming back to the grid at the beginning of 2018.  My plan was to buffer the edges of full sim pads with these guys. I may also make some one sided faux mountains to add even more realism. 

It is good to know that e-vent-u-ally we learn our lessons -- even if it takes awhile.

So lots of thanks to Aquila for all the time she has spent with me. It has been appreciated and I have paid attention :D.

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2017 by Chic Aeon

[Anna Nova]

3 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

@Aquila Kytori has been helping me ...

 

Oddly enough, I am today about to embark on a big-for-me landform project.  So you may be getting questions!

One issue is that it is so long between landform projects, that I forget all the tricks I used last time.  And the other is that it has to abut a Gov Linden road with a variable slope.....

Edited December 4, 2017 by anna2358

[Chic Aeon]

1 hour ago, anna2358 said:

Oddly enough, I am today about to embark on a big-for-me landform project.  So you may be getting questions!

One issue is that it is so long between landform projects, that I forget all the tricks I used last time.  And the other is that it has to abut a Gov Linden road with a variable slope.....

Not sure about the road except perhaps to make it deeper than you would normally want and to then move it INTO the earth :D.

The big hint it to keep it as simple as you can and let your "Photoshop Skills" do a bunch of the work for you.  I made this in Cycles of course and then had to blend all the edges between the rock and the grass by hand. That almost took longer than making the land form. 

I am very happy with them though (this is number 2 of a group). And I think when I put them together and turn and such they will likely look quite realistic -- especially on top of matching grass -- which of course we can't do on Mainland ^^.

Good luck!

[Anna Nova]

I'm sort of thinking of making it in rough prim first, then exporting the collada, and refining it in Blender.  I do that quite often when something has to fit, even if all that is retained is the edges.

[ChinRey]

6 hours ago, anna2358 said:

Oddly enough, I am today about to embark on a big-for-me landform project.  So you may be getting questions!

One issue is that it is so long between landform projects, that I forget all the tricks I used last time.  And the other is that it has to abut a Gov Linden road with a variable slope.....

 

Hi Anna, I'm working on a full sim mesh landscape on Mesh Sand box 3 on the beta grid right now. If you see this message in time, please feel free to drop in and take a look and discuss how to do it!

 

[ChinRey]

5 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

especially on top of matching grass -- which of course we can't do on Mainland ^^.

No, but we can always cover the whole ground with mesh.

[Chic Aeon]

1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

No, but we can always cover the whole ground with mesh.

Yes we can! And these are being made to cover the edges of a full sim pad up in the air so that works too. There is pretty much no way I could cover my very very hilly mainland with mesh and be "practical" though. I remember long ago when someone was selling systems that covered mainland. They must have been sculpt as LONG ago. Mixed reviews but possible if ya want it bad enough.  :D.

 

Edit: I peaked at your landscape :D.  There ARE sometimes when I appreciate those megaprim sized meshes in Opensim. SO EASY there.   I might use that method on some sand area --- had thought of that and have done it before on other platforms where it is easier (so much so LOL).   But one project at a time!    

Have fun!

Edited December 4, 2017 by Chic Aeon

[Chic Aeon]

OK you smart folks!

I am VERY happy with how this is going ---

But (well of course there is a but) I have a hard edge in the middle of my backdrop mountain (LINKSET). I have never had anything like this before so not sure how to get rid of it. I made faces, edges and vertices "soft" but that didn't do it. It really hardly shows when textured, but I would LIKE to know how to fix this.

 

Obvious in the upload window.

 

Hints appreciated. thanks.

 

Edited December 4, 2017 by Chic Aeon

[ChinRey]

3 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

But (well of course there is a but) I have a hard edge in the middle of my backdrop mountain (LINKSET).

Just to eliminate the obvious, there aren't any split vertices there?

[Aquila Kytori]

13 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

 

 

CONGRATULATIONS

 

32 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

am VERY happy with how this is going --- BUT..........................

Ooooooops,  I was about remind you that most accidents happen on the way down ........... seems I am too late ..........

[Chic Aeon]

1 hour ago, Aquila Kytori said:

CONGRATULATIONS

 

Ooooooops,  I was about remind you that most accidents happen on the way down ........... seems I am too late ..........

LOL. Well the cliff is good LOL. It is the backdrop mountain that is iffy. I linked it back and it is fine so going to try and divide the mesh using another method (see there is ALWAYS more to learn). And if that doesn't work, will live with the can barely see edge difference. BUT I would like it better another way. Might be better if I start that one over as a cube and go from there. Not sure. But happily fast experiments other than some other times

Thanks again.

 

VERY cute graphic additions! 

Edited December 4, 2017 by Chic Aeon

[Pamela Galli]

2 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

OK you smart folks!

I am VERY happy with how this is going ---

But (well of course there is a but) I have a hard edge in the middle of my backdrop mountain (LINKSET). I have never had anything like this before so not sure how to get rid of it. I made faces, edges and vertices "soft" but that didn't do it. It really hardly shows when textured, but I would LIKE to know how to fix this.

 

Obvious in the upload window.

 

Hints appreciated. thanks.

 

I don’t know either but you could try adding an edge loop right near the edges. (I of course would ignore it if the texturing hid it.)

[Aquila Kytori]

2 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

Obvious in the upload window.

 

 

 

When you are sperating your Background mesh object into two the Normals at the split edges are not pointing in the same direction anymore. I am almost certain this is the cause of the "sharp" shading where the two mesh object join.

Its the same when you see the shading error on a mesh avatar where the neck jpins the body.

To fix this you need to use the Data Transfert Modifier

 

• Make a copy of your two mesh Objects and Join them back together again.  Remove doubles. Rename it Joined and move it to a different layer so that its out of the way for now..
• Join your two original objects But do not remove doubles. so there is overlapping vertices where you had them split earlier. 
• Enable Auto Smooth for this mesh.
• 
• Add a Data Transfer Modifier and  enable Face Corner data > Nearest face Interpolated.
• For source object select the Joined mesh object.
• 

If i understand this correctly this copies the normals from the Joined mesh to the Mesh that you will be seperating before exporting.

•  You can now separate the original mesh again. Because the original split edges are still split  Use the L key to select one half and then P key to separate.
• Select the two now separate mesh objects and export as usual but make sure you have Apply Modifiers enabled in the Collada export panel.

Now in the Mesh preview window you should not be able to see where the two mesh objects are joined.

Goin to check to see if you are still on the beta grid to see if you understand what i have written

 

 

[Chic Aeon]

2 minutes ago, Aquila Kytori said:

When you are sperating your Background mesh object into two the Normals at the split edges are not pointing in the same direction anymore. I am almost certain this is the cause of the "sharp" shading where the two mesh object join.

Its the same when you see the shading error on a mesh avatar where the neck jpins the body.

To fix this you need to use the Data Transfert Modifier

 

• Make a copy of your two mesh Objects and Join them back together again.  Remove doubles. Rename it Joined and move it to a different layer so that its out of the way for now..
• Join your two original objects But do not remove doubles. so there is overlapping vertices where you had them split earlier. 
• Enable Auto Smooth for this mesh.
• 
• Add a Data Transfer Modifier and  enable Face Corner data > Nearest face Interpolated.
• For source object select the Joined mesh object.
• 

If i understand this correctly this copies the normals from the Joined mesh to the Mesh that you will be seperating before exporting.

•  You can now separate the original mesh again. Because the original split edges are still split  Use the L key to select one half and then P key to separate.
• Select the two now separate mesh objects and export as usual but make sure you have Apply Modifiers enabled in the Collada export panel.

Now in the Mesh preview window you should not be able to see where the two mesh objects are joined.

Goin to check to see if you are still on the beta grid to see if you understand what i have written

 

 

Thanks. Lani is still there :D.   I got about half of it and will try. I did part of it already and will try and follow your instructions.  WE ALL NEED TO KNOW THIS.  I figured out what the issue WAS, just not how to fix it

 

[Anna Nova]

44 minutes ago, Aquila Kytori said:

...

To fix this you need to use the Data Transfer Modifier

...

It never occurred to me that there was a way to copy normals like this.....  I would never have looked for such a facility.  I'm in awe.

[Chic Aeon]

1 minute ago, anna2358 said:

It never occurred to me that there was a way to copy normals like this.....  I would never have looked for such a facility.  I'm in awe.

And I am trying to get it to work. Aquila was here on the beta grid for awhile. HERS looked great. So far it is alluding me so I am missing something somewhere. A few more tries though. 

[Chic Aeon]

1 hour ago, Aquila Kytori said:

When you are sperating your Background mesh object into two the Normals at the split edges are not pointing in the same direction anymore. I am almost certain this is the cause of the "sharp" shading where the two mesh object join.

Its the same when you see the shading error on a mesh avatar where the neck jpins the body.

To fix this you need to use the Data Transfert Modifier

 

• Make a copy of your two mesh Objects and Join them back together again.  Remove doubles. Rename it Joined and move it to a different layer so that its out of the way for now..
• Join your two original objects But do not remove doubles. so there is overlapping vertices where you had them split earlier. 
• Enable Auto Smooth for this mesh.
• 
• Add a Data Transfer Modifier and  enable Face Corner data > Nearest face Interpolated.
• For source object select the Joined mesh object.
• 

If i understand this correctly this copies the normals from the Joined mesh to the Mesh that you will be seperating before exporting.

•  You can now separate the original mesh again. Because the original split edges are still split  Use the L key to select one half and then P key to separate.
• Select the two now separate mesh objects and export as usual but make sure you have Apply Modifiers enabled in the Collada export panel.

Now in the Mesh preview window you should not be able to see where the two mesh objects are joined.

Goin to check to see if you are still on the beta grid to see if you understand what i have written

 

 

OK about nine trials and not getting this even on a sphere.  LOL.

 

I think I have tried all possible permutations of possibilities (sure that can't be a real thing) but here:

Add a Data Transfer Modifier and  enable Face Corner data > Nearest face Interpolated.

Doesn't match the screenshot info which has Projected Face Intrapolation --- and  in the screenshot custom normals is chosen. 

 

What should I be trying to use?

 

I  have the JOINED object to copy from AUTOSMOOTHED with NO DOUBLES on a separate layer.

The other (Rock Wall) isn't autosmoothed and maybe it should be?  It still has the doubles. 

 

Getting tired so moving on. 

Hints as always appreciated. I DO get things eventually LOL.

 

TY!!!!!!!  And sleep well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Aquila Kytori]

I should have taken more time to do a step by step example  but was in a hurry and now to late in the day for me  .

Will do that tomorrow evening ..............

in the mean time .............

 

and check these forums for Normal editing,  Drongle did a post on this when  the Data Transfer modifier was added to Blender a couple of years ago;

And I vaguely remember Gaia did a video on editing normals at the neck / torso join .......

[Chic Aeon]

2 hours ago, Aquila Kytori said:

I should have taken more time to do a step by step example  but was in a hurry and now to late in the day for me  .

Will do that tomorrow evening ..............

in the mean time .............

 

and check these forums for Normal editing,  Drongle did a post on this when  the Data Transfer modifier was added to Blender a couple of years ago;

And I vaguely remember Gaia did a video on editing normals at the neck / torso join .......

 

Thanks, quitting time for me now but I uploaded the not quite perfect one ($11 linden so I think I can afford it) and finished up my trial set up. Very good energy and will do what it needs to do. BUT I would like to know "the secret" (kinda like learning how NOT to have seams on cylinders -- pretty important in my mind).

Meanwhile, here is a pretty poster that I made at the end of the day. Two different cliffs with a mix of grass and rock, four different wall rocks (no backs or physics). One edge of a whole sim plus a corner weighs in at 79 with four cliffs with physics. I can live with that. 

APPRECIATE YOUR HELP and yes I remember Drongle's normals editing post but it was SO OVER MY HEAD (at least then and maybe still) I just noted and went about my work LOL.  

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Chic Aeon

[Chic Aeon]

OK I did this twice and it is "somewhat" better (or I am hoping anyway)  but the seam is still there inworld.  It looks good in Blender, but not so much in the upload window or when rezzed. I can compare with the original one to see how much better, but it doesn't exactly solve the issue. I used the setting you had above and toggled until it looked smooth. 

After modifier applied

 

Upload window

 

inworld

Here is the one with no modifier on the left and the new one that LOOKS good in Blender on the right. The modified one is slightly better but there is still a noticeable seam so I guess I will live with it --- which I can do :D.   If I remember correctly that thread from Drongle didn't seem to solve ALL the issues -- hence in part my not worrying about it too much. This might help on some things though.  

 

I think I did it correctly this time.

 

 

 

[Anna Nova]

I think this is the thread we need to read.  Took a bit of finding,so I thought I'd post the link.

[arton Rotaru]

10 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

OK I did this twice and it is "somewhat" better (or I am hoping anyway)

Might be the triangulation again. I would either triangulate the mesh before doing the normals transfer, or uncheck the triangulate option in the collada exporter.

[Chic Aeon]

1 hour ago, arton Rotaru said:

Might be the triangulation again. I would either triangulate the mesh before doing the normals transfer, or uncheck the triangulate option in the collada exporter.

TY. Will try. That is such a NEW problem for me, I forget that pesky new (for me) glitch.  

 

OK. Tried both methods. The unchecking triangulate didn't change anything but triangulating BEFORE data transfer is looking good in the upload window, so think the combo did it. ACTUALLY ---- OMG, there is a possibility that the whole problem was the TRIANGULATE. I will have to dig out an older file and test that theory but NOW I am heading for a break.

 

THANK YOU! 

[arton Rotaru]

5 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

OMG, there is a possibility that the whole problem was the TRIANGULATE

The normals will have to be unified along curved borders of 2 meshes no matter what. The thing is that edited vertex normals are rather fragile, and can break easily with any further operation on the mesh.

[Chic Aeon]

1 hour ago, arton Rotaru said:

The normals will have to be unified along curved borders of 2 meshes no matter what. The thing is that edited vertex normals are rather fragile, and can break easily with any further operation on the mesh.

Yep, wasn't "just" the triangulate (and I am happy for that LOL).  

So TRIANGLUATING  BEFORE Data Transfer appears to be the key --- at least for more complex things. Aquila's spheres seemed to work fine without that step. All good to know and may help in some landforms down the line.  I seldom make things that are 114 meters LOL.   I am glad for that. 

 

I just referenced this thread on Drongle's thread so people can read about the triangulation piece of the puzzle if needed. 

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Chic Aeon