Materials enabled vs. has materials

[Coby Foden]

Why some creators advertize their products with confusing wording like "materials enabled"? Well, since Linden Lab implemented materials all prims and meshes in SL are now materials enabled. Materials enabled does not mean that the product actually has materials, it is just enabled to have them, just like all prims and meshes are. If the product has materials why not use clear term such as "has materials" or just "materials"?

In the Marketplace I have seen products with description "materials enabled". Some of those do have materials some don't.
So if the product has materials please say so clearly "Has materials". Thank you.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

Some mesh bodies do not have materials enabled when it comes to appliers. That is one reason they use the term "Materials enabled." 

[Coby Foden]

5 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Some mesh bodies do not have materials enabled when it comes to appliers. That is one reason they use the term "Materials enabled." 

I have seen that "Materials enabled" term used in the descriptions of mesh clothes. And as I said above, some do have materials and some don't. Which is really strange. That "Materials enabled" term should be dropped off totally. Because everything in SL, except system avatar and perhaps Linden trees and such things, are materials enabled by default. So that term adds no information to the product at all. The items either have materials or they don't, and that should be clearly stated in the product with correct term "Has materials" and "Hasn't materials".

[Klytyna]

22 hours ago, Coby Foden said:

Why some creators advertize their products with confusing wording like "materials enabled"?

Usually because they have absolutely NO freaking idea what materials is all about...

There are a great many 'creators' out there who simply greyscale the diffuse texture, darken it down till it has an AVERAGE rgb value of 64-96, and slap that in as a spec map, with the default materials parameters 'spec-tightness 51' 'env-reflection 0', and think that is ALL that's required for 'materials' to mysteriously work and make the product look wow fab groovy for the 'tiny minority who use that ALM stuff'.

 

[Solar Legion]

2 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

Usually because they have absolutely NO freaking idea what materials is all about...

There are a great many 'creators' out there who simply greyscale the diffuse texture, darken it down till it has an AVERAGE rgb value of 64-96, and slap that in as a spec map, with the default materials parameters 'spec-tightness 51' 'env-reflection 0', and think that is ALL that's required for 'materials' to mysteriously work and make the product look wow fab groovy for the 'tiny minority who use that ALM stuff'.

 

This really shows in the furry community: I have more than a few avatars I have purchased where the creator has done pretty much just that and have had to trace down maps that either work well with the fur pattern or have been custom made, then more often than not have to alter the bloody settings just to get it to look right.

[Morgan Rosenstar]

6 hours ago, Klytyna said:

Usually because they have absolutely NO freaking idea what materials is all about...

Either this or they expect the consumer to be ignorant enough to be fooled by the confusion?

[Chic Aeon]

27 minutes ago, Morgan Rosenstar said:

Either this or they expect the consumer to be ignorant enough to be fooled by the confusion?

OK. This isn't just to Morgan, but SOMETIMES people who DO understand materials use a blank texture for the materials layer ON PURPOSE and with REASON :D.  I have a normal and specular map maker. It is a VERY easy thing to do from your baked diffuse layer. However it is yet another texture for your viewer to download (some folks make their specular maps at 1024  - OMG). In the case of METAL (which is where I often use a blank texture) the 16 x 16 texture works pretty much the same as the specular map created from the diffuse texture (they are often almost solid white). 

So FOR ME, using a 16 x 16 texture rather than a 512 x 512 seems to be the only sensible thing to do.  This doesn't work with normal maps of course. 

 

SOME of that "materials enabled' text came about at the very beginning when materials were just being introduced. Many people didn't have a VIEWER that could see them and for some reason that phrase was the one used by almost everyone.  Even WITH materials enabled, a more important thing to note in a Marketplace description is whether the textures are baked  (showing subtle ambient shadows and "shine" right in the diffuse texture) or that the photo is showing what ONLY those with materials will see.  

There were quite a few creators (likely still are) that never learned baked textures and so their vendor photos didn't resemble their products at all to those without ALM on.   That was a disappointment to the buyers I am sure. 

 

[Morgan Rosenstar]

38 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

OK. This isn't just to Morgan, but SOMETIMES people who DO understand materials use a blank texture for the materials layer ON PURPOSE and with REASON :D.  I have a normal and specular map maker. It is a VERY easy thing to do from your baked diffuse layer. However it is yet another texture for your viewer to download (some folks make their specular maps at 1024  - OMG). In the case of METAL (which is where I often use a blank texture) the 16 x 16 texture works pretty much the same as the specular map created from the diffuse texture (they are often almost solid white). 

So FOR ME, using a 16 x 16 texture rather than a 512 x 512 seems to be the only sensible thing to do.  This doesn't work with normal maps of course. 

 

SOME of that "materials enabled' text came about at the very beginning when materials were just being introduced. Many people didn't have a VIEWER that could see them and for some reason that phrase was the one used by almost everyone.  Even WITH materials enabled, a more important thing to note in a Marketplace description is whether the textures are baked  (showing subtle ambient shadows and "shine" right in the diffuse texture) or that the photo is showing what ONLY those with materials will see.  

There were quite a few creators (likely still are) that never learned baked textures and so their vendor photos didn't resemble their products at all to those without ALM on.   That was a disappointment to the buyers I am sure. 

 

Thank you.

[Coby Foden]

As a quick hack for old things which have no materials I often add a small blank texture as a specular map. Then I play with glossines amount and glossines gray shade to get the desired result. If the item is metal, like gold, then I use gold color as the glossines color. Sometimes the old product (especially jewelry) looks very nice with this shininess hack, it springs to life with dynamic shine . However naturally it does not work well with items which have strong baked highlights in the diffuse texture.

[Small rant: Unfortunately many things are no mod and nothing can be done on them. In lots of items I see no reason at all for no mod, I wonder what is reason why so many things are no mod. Aarrgghhh...   In real life everything is modifiable, to a lesser or greater degree. I can paint my black TV into red if I wanted to . So, what is it with this SL no mod thing?]

[Phil Deakins]

35 minutes ago, Coby Foden said:

So, what is it with this SL no mod thing?

I suspect it's to avoid frequently sorting customers out who have made a pig's ear of modifying something. Even replacing items can be a pain if it happens too often.

[Coby Foden]

4 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I suspect it's to avoid frequently sorting customers out who have made a pig's ear of modifying something. Even replacing items can be a pain if it happens too often.

How about using "redelivery terminal" in the shop? If the customer ruins an item, pick a new copy from there.
Well, I don't know is it a pain or complicated thing to put redelivery terminal in a shop?

[Phil Deakins]

That would only work with copyable items, Coby. It's a  very good system, of course, and avoids the messing about that I mentioned. I was thinking from my experience, and I never sold copyable items.

It's a pity I'm not still selling because I suddenly fancy writing a redelivery system

[Coby Foden]

5 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

That would only work with copyable items, Coby. It's a  very good system, of course, and avoids the messing about that I mentioned. I was thinking from my experience, and I never sold copyable items.

It's a pity I'm not still selling because I suddenly fancy writing a redelivery system

Yes I know that it works only for copyable (no transfer) items. Personally I never buy transfer items because there is a possibility that SL hickup might eat them. It's also that I often modify the items what I have. For no copy items it's a bit risky thing to do as you have no backup to return to if something goes wrong.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

12 hours ago, Coby Foden said:

How about using "redelivery terminal" in the shop? If the customer ruins an item, pick a new copy from there.
Well, I don't know is it a pain or complicated thing to put redelivery terminal in a shop?

I did not realize the MP had a redelivery terminal.