Advise on putting a good femboy look together?

[Robin Redangel]

I stopped RP'ing as a feminine young male because i couldn't get my avatar and clothes to look good with the existing mesh bodies, shapes, skins, and clothing.  That was months and months ago.  I'm guessing things have improved since then.  I'd appreciate getting advice and opinions on the best components for making an appealing femboy avatar.  I want it to look human - not furry - and not too female. I'd like to keep the look of a male with female prettiness...no boobs or big hips.  Thanks!

Edited September 21, 2017 by Robin Redangel
more info

[Skell Dagger]

What many femboys are doing these days is wearing the female Maitreya Lara body with the V-Tech Boi Flat Chest Mod. As to heads, I would suggest demoing one of Catwa's three male Bento heads and playing with the sliders to achieve the look you want. (Alternatively, there are many shapes already created for specific Bento mesh heads, both inworld and on Marketplace.) You can also demo some of her female heads, since I know a few people have successfully used those for femboy avatars. (Other mesh heads are available, but I personally recommend Catwa's.)

The annual Femboy Hunt (website here - may contain NSFW images) takes place in March, so keep an eye out for that next year, and The Androgyne Initiative group (website here) is a good one to join to keep updated on new andro and femboy clothing and skins, etc. There are also several SL androgyny groups on Flickr where people post fashion pics and ads. I don't have time right now to dig up a list of links to the ones I know of, but if you're interested in those just let me know.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Skell Dagger

[Love Zhaoying]

I'd buy that for a dollar!

[chardonay Babii]

7 hours ago, Skell Dagger said:

(Other mesh heads are available, but I personally recommend Catwa's.)

 

 

Up until a few weeks ago playing SL after a beverage and buying a LeLutka head on a whim and finding it on my avatar the next day I became a convert from Catwa and I have two of those (Catya & Jessica).  The Lelutka Bento heads come with mesh eyes free and heaps of makeup options in the HUD as well as animations  much more than Catwa ones I have in Catya.  I'd pick one of these first any day. That May might work for a Femboy.

Edited September 21, 2017 by chardonay Babii

[Marianne Little]

An new release from LeLutka, the first MALE mesh head is one that I think will fit androgynous looks!! Google Lelutka Andrea. Yes that is Andrea with an "a". It is strange for me, but Andrea is a male name in many countries, so...

Here are a few blogposts: https://marcopoloh.com/2017/09/17/lelutka-andrea-male-mesh-head/

https://hikaruenimo.wordpress.com/2017/09/21/tell-me-you-love-me-2/

And a more traditional male look, but I link this blogpost because it list up a lot of useful information about the head, "beast teeth" included. How useful for Halloween! Can you see the sexy vampires waiting for this head?! https://sasypants.com/2017/09/21/andrea-for-men-lelutka-male-head/

And preview of the animations:

 

[Clover Jinx]

Oh he's stunning. I think my malt is finally gonna go mesh a my wish list gets longer and longer. I need a sugar momma or daddy. =~.~=

[Marianne Little]

And Gac Akina already working on a skin, that is simply my favorite skin maker in SL and he is always so fast, always makes skins for the latest mesh bodies and now this:

Clef De Peau also has skins, and I hope Aeros is coming. The Tableau Vivant skins included with the Lelutka head is also really good.

[Skell Dagger]

8 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

An new release from LeLutka, the first MALE mesh head is one that I think will fit androgynous looks!! Google Lelutka Andrea.

I checked out those blog posts and the one on the Lulutka blog, because this really perked my ears up. But then I got to this:

Quote

You have Makeup layer which unlike the girls is full coverage. [ ... ] There are four Makeup looks included with the HUD, guyliner, smokey eyes, lines and colours

My question is... why? Why don't the guys get the same individual makeup zones as the ladies apparently do? We just get eyeliner and maybe shadow... and nothing else? Eh...

Don't get me wrong; of course I'll demo it. But I just wish all creators would consider that men want as much choice as women do, not less choice.

[chardonay Babii]

1 hour ago, Skell Dagger said:

I checked out those blog posts and the one on the Lulutka blog, because this really perked my ears up. But then I got to this:

My question is... why? Why don't the guys get the same individual makeup zones as the ladies apparently do? We just get eyeliner and maybe shadow... and nothing else? Eh...

Don't get me wrong; of course I'll demo it. But I just wish all creators would consider that men want as much choice as women do, not less choice.

Probably because your average guy won't use any of it besides the hairbase change, animations and facial hair options.  

Dont stress though, those heads allow  custom tattoo layers so with a hud you can make a bunch of appliers with different makeup combinations if you want a different makeup look.  

The problem is each option on the hud is another mesh head made and scripted.  Those girls heads have like 50 different heads in them with all the different possible combinations.  For the small percentage of guys interested in makeup, it sure would be a lot of work put in and lots of extra avatar lag for those not interested in it.  

[Iki Kimono]

As has already been said, you can get decent results either by tweaking a male bento head to have a feminine appearance, or by using the V-tech chest addon for the Maitreya Lara body (presuming you're going to show off your bare chest. It's worth bearing in mind that you don't need that right away if you're wearing clothes that would require your chest to be alphad out anyway). With some tweaking you can minimise the curves of the Lara body, though possibly not enough for your liking. Again, that only really applies if you're going to be wearing something that reveals much of your body - if you're alpha-ing it out and covering it with male clothes, it doesn't matter that much.

The shape will make all the difference with the head, though, and there are skin makers who create applies for the V-tech chest (Pink Fuel springs to mind) or male skins designed for the Lara body plus V-tech. I use Mudskin on the Catwa Hanako head. Here's a rubbish snapshot of me in a sandbox so you can see what it looks like:

And for comparison, here's the default shape with a female skin:

 

There's also 6DOO, who makes both a male and female head. The female head has a free neck fix you can pick up in store that adapts it to fit on a male body. It's not 100% perfect, but it's good enough.

If you go for a male head, Belleza's Jake and the Slink body are probably the best bets for creating a slender male shape.

[Marianne Little]

12 hours ago, Skell Dagger said:

I checked out those blog posts and the one on the Lulutka blog, because this really perked my ears up. But then I got to this:

My question is... why? Why don't the guys get the same individual makeup zones as the ladies apparently do? We just get eyeliner and maybe shadow... and nothing else? Eh...

Don't get me wrong; of course I'll demo it. But I just wish all creators would consider that men want as much choice as women do, not less choice.

It could be SL acting up on me, but I could not get the demo head to work with Omega. Maybe I am mistaken, but I think other demo heads are ready for Omega so one can really test out the possibilities.

I was really interested to see the head with other eyebrows,, and also to see if the brows are separate from the two makeup layers. Eyebrows is one of the main things I change. Nothing makes a skin so different from the default one, as adding eyebrows. (In my opinion)

But I could not test that since the Andrea head would not take the Omega demo eyebrows! I log in another avatar later today.

Speaking of layers, the Catwa heads are annoying for my use, since my alts don't wear makeup. They only change brows, tattoos (as in neck tattoo) and beard. To have a beard show up properly, means I have to turn on the correct layers for lipstick (Upper and lower) and cheak blush (upper and lower) and neck (upper and lower) and don't ruin the neck tattoo or the two hairbase layers (upper and lower)

This is, to say it bluntly, a pain. The Lelutka is much easier to use for the average man.

[Skell Dagger]

@Marianne Little Agreed on the point of the eyebrows. I won't buy skin appliers that don't come with a browless option, because so many designers opt for thick, bushy eyebrows that end up dominating the entire face, and I prefer Skell's brows to be finer and more well-groomed.

I'll wait a few days before I demo the Lelutka head. With a new product like this (even though Lelutka are no strangers to Bento mesh heads) I usually give it a week or so for any bugs to be ironed out. But, like you mention, I've had days when appliers just don't work, and it's down to SL shenanigans rather than an issue with the head or applier.

Regarding the following:

2 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

The Lelutka is much easier to use for the average man.

The Average Man is whom the majority of SL designers seem to create for, which is why the male fashion market is saturated with jeans, hoodies, sneakers, baseball caps, and that One Nice Suit that your Uncle Bob wears to weddings and funerals. (Yes, I know there's other stuff, but that list comprises the overwhelming majority of what's available for men.)

I spend a lot of time at male fashion events. I know that - as someone who has several male alts - you do, too, but I often linger for hours (unless the event is busy, in which case I teleport out to give someone else a chance to get in) and I know which items I see men linger and cluster in front of the most. Certain groups go for certain styles, but in the main the stuff that I see everywhere in SL is not what I see those guys making a beeline for.... presumably because it is everywhere and they already have ten other versions of it.

When designers think that Most Men want things to be nice and simple, and that Most Men can't be bothered to fiddle with complex HUDs, that's when all men end up with less choice. SL is a woman's market anyway when it comes to fashion, but that Most Men attitude limits things even more for us guys.

(And yes, INB4 some smartarse tags this with #NotAllMen. )

[Marianne Little]

22 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said:

@Marianne Little Agreed on the point of the eyebrows. I won't buy skin appliers that don't come with a browless option, because so many designers opt for thick, bushy eyebrows that end up dominating the entire face, and I prefer Skell's brows to be finer and more well-groomed.

I'll wait a few days before I demo the Lelutka head. With a new product like this (even though Lelutka are no strangers to Bento mesh heads) I usually give it a week or so for any bugs to be ironed out. But, like you mention, I've had days when appliers just don't work, and it's down to SL shenanigans rather than an issue with the head or applier.

Regarding the following:

 

Hehe well... but do you really like the upper/lower options on the Catwa heads, and don't you think it could be a bit more easy? I could love to see just one option for lipstick, blush, eyebrows, and the upper/lower be exchanged with some full head layers. I am not sure if that is possible, but I am sure it would make applying same applier for a large part of the head easier.

[Skell Dagger]

26 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Hehe well... but do you really like the upper/lower options on the Catwa heads, and don't you think it could be a bit more easy? I could love to see just one option for lipstick, blush, eyebrows, and the upper/lower be exchanged with some full head layers. I am not sure if that is possible, but I am sure it would make applying same applier for a large part of the head easier.

I do like them, actually. I find them a lot easier, especially with all the free extra HUDs that Catwa has out in the store for saving all the layers once you've got them set just right, for easy re-application. Once you understand that things will default to the lower layer when applied by an external HUD, and that you need to save to the Catwa HUD anything you want to put on the upper layer, it gets a lot easier.

So to wear a beard over a cheek tattoo you would apply the beard (which will apply to lower blush) and save it to the blush layer on the Catwa HUD (or to the separate beard HUD that's included with the head). You then apply the tattoo (which will also apply to lower blush and therefore take off the beard). Then you just check the 'upper' blush option and click the saved beard on the Catwa HUD to apply it over the tattoo. You actually have more customisation with the upper and lower layers, not less.

You've probably already seen it, but this Catwa Crash Course video by Strawberry Singh is excellent for explaining the upper and lower layers. (She's also done a Lelutka Crash Course video, which I plan to watch before I get the Lelutka demo.)

Edited September 23, 2017 by Skell Dagger

[Marianne Little]

2 hours ago, Skell Dagger said:

I do like them, actually. I find them a lot easier, especially with all the free extra HUDs that Catwa has out in the store for saving all the layers once you've got them set just right, for easy re-application. Once you understand that things will default to the lower layer when applied by an external HUD, and that you need to save to the Catwa HUD anything you want to put on the upper layer, it gets a lot easier.

So to wear a beard over a cheek tattoo you would apply the beard (which will apply to lower blush) and save it to the blush layer on the Catwa HUD (or to the separate beard HUD that's included with the head). You then apply the tattoo (which will also apply to lower blush and therefore take off the beard). Then you just check the 'upper' blush option and click the saved beard on the Catwa HUD to apply it over the tattoo. You actually have more customisation with the upper and lower layers, not less.

You've probably already seen it, but this Catwa Crash Course video by Strawberry Singh is excellent for explaining the upper and lower layers. (She's also done a Lelutka Crash Course video, which I plan to watch before I get the Lelutka demo.)

Thank you Skell. My problem now is that I've been in SL 1 hour the last month, and that was just to check if the Andrea demo was out, and then buy the demo and try it on. I am not so familiar with the Catwa HUD as you may think, haha. I wear a beard by clicking in desperation until it looks right. And the next time I log in, I forgot how. I will save your instructions.

The video, I know about it, but I really don't like video reviews. I will try to force myself to watch it. I more or less gave up Strawberry Singh because she post so many videos. I still click on her blog but it is not interesting anymore. I am more a reader.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Marianne Little

[Marianne Little]

LOGO has a male head as "sneak preview, upcoming".

It is really nice, a very handsome boy next door?

 

 

[Iki Kimono]

Just adding this in case it's of any use to anyone - Catwa's latest head, Magy, is unisex; it has male and female neck fittings but takes female skin appliers. As someone who suggested this I actually Kermit-flailed when I read that. 

It remains to be seen if any other heads get this treatment but at the moment it's looking like an excellent choice for those of us who want a more delicate featured face on a male body or the chance to switch between clothes rigged for either sex.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to check down the back of the sofa for loose change... 

 

 

[Marianne Little]

7 hours ago, Iki Kimono said:

Just adding this in case it's of any use to anyone - Catwa's latest head, Magy, is unisex; it has male and female neck fittings but takes female skin appliers. As someone who suggested this I actually Kermit-flailed when I read that. 

It remains to be seen if any other heads get this treatment but at the moment it's looking like an excellent choice for those of us who want a more delicate featured face on a male body or the chance to switch between clothes rigged for either sex.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to check down the back of the sofa for loose change... 

 

 

This is amazing news! You men/boys finally get nice stuff. You really deserve it after so many years in the desert...

[Callum Meriman]

9 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

This is amazing news! You men/boys finally get nice stuff. You really deserve it after so many years in the desert...

I think the androgynous and femboy and male-teen market is bigger than a lot of people realise. So, yes!! it is nice to see people giving us things we can use.

I'm hoping Catwa add a female shape fit to a male head too. Dino is pretty attractive, and I would happily throw him on a female fit mesh body.

Well, honestly, I would *adore* Le Lutka to add a female fit to their new Male head. My male shape avatar uses that and the head is amazing, but my female fit avatar can't use LeLetka's female heads. They don't really work for a masculine face to be a  male avatar in female fit.

 

Head wise, I now have 4 catwa heads and 1 LeLutka head to split to 5 mesh bodies, 4 male fit and 1 female fit. I would kill for a decent - non-thunder thighs - thin male mesh body. The matreya with boi chest is not me. The hips are too huge. The Slink male deforms too much if you remove the biceps.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Callum Meriman

[Ashley Lightfoot]

I recently decided to be not a femboy but a pretty male who looks transgender.  That is, most of the time I dress as female but with an ambiguous face.  I have a classic body only and the male Raphael Porcelain skin from Swallow.  I draw my inspiration from Andreja Pejic, the now famous transgender model.

It took some time to make a decent shape which produced an ambiguous male/female face.  I have a flat chest and  fortunately have an inventory filled with clothes that  fit classic and look good with flat chest.  You can find my album on Flickr, showing different looks - using different hair and makeup styles to alter appearance, as well as some with no makeup and obvious male look - but still pretty.   My profile photo shows up in more detail on my Flickr site, with various female/male looks.  Dressed as female I try to an "edgy" look.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Ashley Lightfoot

[Cilene Inglewood]

On 10/11/2017 at 11:13 PM, Iki Kimono said:

Just adding this in case it's of any use to anyone - Catwa's latest head, Magy, is unisex; it has male and female neck fittings but takes female skin appliers. As someone who suggested this I actually Kermit-flailed when I read that. 

"Kermit-flailed" gave me an instant visual. Thank you <3