Crash

[Yuna Ovis]

Hello!

Recently SL decided to crash a lot, even my internet connection is just fine, SL just crashes and hard to log back in saying it has problem with internet connction.

I am surfing normally and other games are just fine but SL keeps crashing.

I only surf on Youtube and websites while playing SL so it doesn't need to crash.

 

Help! It's getting annoying

[Rolig Loon]

Pay attention to the message.  You have a lousy Internet connection.  It may be good enough for watching YouTube videos and playing a few games, but not for SL.  Bandwidth is not the issue.  SL does not require much bandwidth anyway.  The problem is stability and reliability.  SL sends information between the Linden Lab servers and your computer in a continuous stream.  If that stream is corrupted so that you lose data or if it is delayed by more than a fraction of a second, your viewer and the servers will be out of sync and the connection will be severed.

If you are using a wifi connection, replace it with a direct cable or DSL connection instead.  Many people have no trouble at all with wifi, but it is not recommended or supported by Linden Lab because it is easily disturbed by things as simple as a noisy fluorescent light fixture nearby.  Also, reboot both your router and your modem to assure that they have a solid grasp on an IP address.

[Yuna Ovis]

So how come it started just recently when more sensitive programs are not falling when SL does?

I was playing so far on the same way with WIFI on and JUST recently it started acting up.

[Rolig Loon]

There are so many possible reasons that it's hard to count them all...

You haven't rebooted your router or modem in a while

You moved furniture around.

You bought a new "smart" refrigerator.

The guy next door moved his TV next to the wall between your apartments.

Your cat bit the cable to your Internet port.

A work crew in the street bumped the cable box by your driveway.

Water seeped into a connection in your ISP's equipment at the street (that one happened to me)

You have bad luck.

Shall I keep going?   Get off wifi and reboot your router and modem.  See if that helps.  If not, read Nalates's blog for more extreme measures. 

[Madelaine McMasters]

8 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

Shall I keep going?

Mice! For me it's always the mice!

[Nalates Urriah]

2 hours ago, Yuna Ovis said:

So how come it started just recently when more sensitive programs are not falling when SL does?

I was playing so far on the same way with WIFI on and JUST recently it started acting up.

The Internet is NOT A THING. It is the aggregate of 10's of thousands of discrete components. Nor is it a single pathway. There are numerous paths from you to a specific server and several of them may be in use for your SL connection, which can be as few as 2 or 3 connections to over 100 all depending on what you are doing. Any of these components can fail or overload.

Your environment is not static either. A light, appliance, your router, network card, are all things that can fail at any time. Fluorescent lights or their components going bad are often a problem. It may not even be a problem in your home. A neighbor may add a shortwave radio, have an AC that is going bad or is just older and electronically noisy, or doing any number of things that Interfere with your WiFI network signal.

All the "was good" "now bad" tells us is something changed. Since we are continuing to use SL without problem, the problem is likely you or your ISP. Regardless of where the problem is, you can chase it down or continue to think it is SL and suffer.

What programs do you think are more sensitive to the Internet connection than SL? YouTube and streaming services like NetFlix certainly aren't. Web pages aren't. Not even WoW is overly sensitive to network packet loss...

A good Internet connection DOES NOT mean you have a good connection to the SL servers or any specific server. Test your connection. http://blog.nalates.net/2011/10/26/troubleshoot-your-sl-connection/

Edited June 2, 2017 by Nalates Urriah

[Love Zhaoying]

7 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

The Internet is NOT A THING.

Is the "Internet of Things" a thing?  If not, how is it made up of things?

[Rolig Loon]

Es ist ein Gestalt, kein Ding.  Ein Metading,    (Pardon the German.  It seemed appropriate to the quasi-philosophical question.)

[Yuna Ovis]

I know what can effect the net, I deal with it everyday with customers believe me

WIFI is not effected by someone moving something outside, and my connection is just fine or I would feel problems with all the devices WIFI or directly to the modem.

If you have any ping server to give me, I'll send a ping see how it reacts, see if any point is getting effected or has bad reaction

 

[Rolig Loon]

Open your Statistics bar (CTRL + Shift + 1) and look for the basic Ping Sim and Packet Loss values at the top of the display.  That display is dynamic, so you can watch not only to see the values at any instant but also to see how stable the values are over time.  You'll notice, for example, that ping time will spike briefly when you teleport, because the server you are connecting to changes as you hand off from one region to another.  That's normal.  If you find that it does not recover within 500ms or less, though, that you may have a bumpy ride or even be dropped.  That sort of thing happens all the time to SL residents from Australia, because their normal ping time is already fairly large.  It can also happen to people who are much closer to San Francisco if their signal is routed through a slow server somewhere on the Internet.

BTW, if you want to do your own trace to test ping time or packet loss, the server URL for whatever region you are in is right at the top of the display when you look at Help >>> About Second Life.

[Yuna Ovis]

Alright, will make the tests

[Madelaine McMasters]

1 hour ago, Yuna Ovis said:

I know what can effect the net, I deal with it everyday with customers believe me

WIFI is not effected by someone moving something outside, and my connection is just fine or I would feel problems with all the devices WIFI or directly to the modem.

If you have any ping server to give me, I'll send a ping see how it reacts, see if any point is getting effected or has bad reaction

 

Wi-Fi can absolutely affected by other things moving in the vicinity, particularly if those other things emit radiation in the Wi-Fi bands. And your supposition that, if other things are working, SL will too, is wrong. Although SL viewer/server data connections are being migrated to HTTP, much still depends on UDP which has no error recovery. If your statistics (Rolig showed you how to obtain them) indicate packet loss above a fraction of a percent, that could be the source of your problems. It's pretty rare to encounter UDP outside of SL, so the rest of your applications and services will appear to run fine, though perhaps a bit slower, in the face of packet loss. SL will just crash.

[Yuna Ovis]

[Rolig Loon]

Yup.  There it is.  0.8% packet loss is large. Not gigantic, but probably enough to make your connection sensitive to other irregularities.  Mine is very rarely above 0.1%.  As Maddy says, SL relies on UDP for several basic functions, so data loss that high can cripple a connection.  A ping time greater than about 150 will usually result in lag.  Yours, at 200 to 300ms, is problematic.  It can be a cause for more serious lag or a dropped connection, if other things are going on.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Rolig Loon

[Yuna Ovis]

3 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

Yup.  There it is.  0.8% packet loss is large. Not gigantic, but probably enough to make your connection sensitive to other irregularities.  Mine is very rarely above 0.1%.  As Maddy says, SL relies on UDP for several basic functions, so data loss that high can cripple a connection.

So how I lower it? What can effect the connection because through the  trace it's alright nothing too high

[Rolig Loon]

Take a good look at Nalates's blog (I gave you the URL earlier).  It's hard to do anything about ping time, since that's usually a matter of distance that a signal has to travel.  If you had been using a satellite connection, for example, you would see a much longer ping time than your neighbor using a cable or DSL connection, simply because the signal has to travel to orbit and down again.  If you do a trace and see a slow node somewhere along the way, though, that could have the same effect.  You can usually do something about packet loss, though.  Assuming that you have taken earlier advice and rebooted your router and modem, you should probably examine all cables and connectors as well, and give serious thought to upgrading your router.  And do at least temporarily replace your wifi with a cable, to see if that helps.  Tracking down the source of noise in a connection can be frustrating.  You may need to ask your ISP to examine their wiring.  As I remarked earlier, I had a bad connection problem a few years ago that was finally cure when my ISP found that ground water had leaked into the service box at the street and corroded a connector.  I'm sure stranger things have happened, but that was strange enough for me.

[Yuna Ovis]

Using a cable will be hard since my PC is in one room and the router is in the livingroom

But it was alright before so I'll see what I can do, will try to reboot the router too, hopefully won't have to call the company!

[Rolig Loon]

Just another brief thought.  Many wireless routers offer a choice of 5.0 or 2.4 gHz service.  One drawback to the 5 gHz option -- which most people would select, I suspect -- is that it does not penetrate walls and bookcases as well as 2.4 gHz service does.  I verified that recently when I had to install a wireless extender to boost the signal from my router to the BlueRay unit in the basement.  I got a much stronger signal with it set to 2.4 gHtz.  I don't know whether you will have the same experience, but maybe it's worth a try.

[Whirly Fizzle]

You didn't actually say what happens when the viewer "crashes".
Does the viewer just poof to desktop with no error message (possibly followed by a crash report pop up depending on which viewer you use).  This is a crash & very unlikely to have anything to do with your connection as such.
Or does the viewer freeze & go not responding & stay frozen  for a couple of mins until you get the "You have been logged out of Second Life, View IM/Quit" message?  This is a freeze.  Also unlikely to have anything to do with your connection.
Or is everything fine until you suddenly can't walk or type in local chat & a min or so later you get the "You have been logged out of Second Life, View IM/Quit" message?  This is a disconnect & could be a region problem or your connection.

 

Edited June 3, 2017 by Whirly Fizzle

[Monti Messmer]

On 2.6.2017 at 8:21 PM, Love Zhaoying said:

Is the "Internet of Things" a thing?  If not, how is it made up of things?

The Internet of Things is made of things connected to the net. But the Internet is still not a/the thing it´s just the glue keeping things together 

Monti

[Yuna Ovis]

I did a tracert command after crashing today again 

Found some request timed out

[Yuna Ovis]

Now I found request timed out in one of our servers when disconnected

5 is with request timed out

oh well time to talk to the ISP

[Love Zhaoying]

On 6/4/2017 at 5:23 AM, Monti Messmer said:

 

On 6/2/2017 at 2:21 PM, Love Zhaoying said:

Is the "Internet of Things" a thing?  If not, how is it made up of things?

The Internet of Things is made of things connected to the net. But the Internet is still not a/the thing it´s just the glue keeping things together 

Monti

 

But it's called the "Internet OF Things!" *drops mic*