Bridging a social gap

[Little Ming]

So secondlife is based around the concept of a social environment, so it comes as a big surprise to me that secondlife has not taken steps to harness the power behind social media networks and adapt them to enhance user experience in secondlife. For example, facebook. How many users on secondlife not only have a facebook account, and use it to keep in touch with friends you have made in secondlife as well as share your adventures and stories with your friends? Secondlife already has so many features that could easily be adapted to enhance this communication and sharing among social networks. Imagine if you will, the ability to link a sim directly to your facebook with description and all with the click of a button. Compare this to existing tools used in the real world for geolocation and "checking in". Or what if store objects were given the option to associate a description linked through the marketplace but able to be linked via the website or directly though the pie menu in game to share a product you like with your friends. I am only touching the tip of the iceberg with these ideas. I wonder, how many of you would find an interest in such an integration of these two web technologies?

[PeterCanessa Oh]

Erm, I for one disagree with almost every one of your assumptions and, therefore, conclusions:

• "secondlife is based around the concept of a social environment".  Really?  That's news to me.  I thought it was a highly-customisable world in which we could do more or les whatever we liked.
• "secondlife has not taken steps to harness the power behind social media networks".  Linden Lab seems to keep trying.  There isn't anything on/about those networks that appeals to me though.
• "the ability to link a sim directly to your facebook".  Erm, what would I want to link land to Facebook for?  Or are you demonstrating such a massive ignorance of SL that you think it's The Sims?  Should you be referring to avatars then there is a Face-slap button on the profiles window for those that like such things.
• "what if store objects ... to share a product you like with your friends".  This already exists in SL.
• "I wonder, how many of you would find an interest in such an integration of these two web technologies?"  Possibly more if your ideas made any sense.

 

[Rolig Loon]

I know that LL is making moves in this direction but I, for one, don't welcome the blending of SL with Twitface.  Yes, a lot of the fun in SL comes from sharing fun activities with friends, but the more people who enter SL thinking that it's supposed to be a 3D version of FB, the more inane SL gets.  The real power of SL is the freedom you have to create, to shape the world around you.  You're not just a passenger on this ship. You get to design your own cruise, decorate your cabin, make party favors and costumes for everyone else onboard, and run a concession in the gift shop.  Facebook is a nice porthole to look through, I suppose --- I don't have any interest in FB myself --- but I think our experience here is cheapened by giving the impression that SL is just another FB app. 

[Thinkerer Melville]

You are right.

I use FB & Twitter to promote events in SL and to promote my blog

Here are some things I have been recommending 

 

Facebook and twitter for promoting your project

http://virtualoutworlding.blogspot.com/2011/02/media-facebook-and-twitter-for.html

Virtual Outworlding: The first five minutes. Live Streaming. Geo Meek

http://virtualoutworlding.blogspot.com/2011/03/first-five-minutes-live-streaming-geo.html

  Thinkerer

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

I do NOT want to meet the typist beind the W-cup hermaphrodite latex demoness. (=_=)y

 

 

[Void Singer]

the sad thing is I know exactly who you are talking about... just can't think of their name

(ps, are you using an increased font size? because you signature images does not fit in the bounds of the default size)

[Darrius Gothly]

Little,

I think you have a fairly astute observation of one of the core purposes of Second Life, social interaction. Clubs, Art Shows, amazing and wonderous Sim builds, Live Music, Charity Events .. the list goes on and on. The opportunitues exist everywhere and the tools to socialize on a level completely unattainable in other common Internet Technologies are a powerful part of the Second Life experience. (As a personal example, using other technologies I have spent hours chatting with someone about a broad range of personal and enjoyable topics, but until Second Life I had never spent that time DANCING with them as well.)

But the fact that Facebook (for example) is based on a "Social Networking" paradigm does not make it the same as the social activities or interests that occur in Second Life. There are massive differences in how the two socialization machines work .. differences based not just on superficial or easily altered behaviors either.

I'll start with the upper-level and most visible attribute of both platforms, Member Presentation. In Facebook, members of the site are required to fill out a profile that specifically requests their true and accurate details. Without getting into the privacy battle currently waging in and around Facebook, it's important to realize that the information they request / require is expected to be true and specific to who you are both online and offline. In short, the Member Presentation that Facebook expects you to provide is the same type of presentation you show to people you pass in the Mall, the store, at Church and even at family reunions. In short, they expect you to provide them details of the "Real You".

Second Life however is almost completely on the opposite end of that scale. The Profile that new Second Life Residents are provided is short on real-life details (and those are completely optional without any "penalty") and very long on fantasy and imagination. It is designed to provide the member an opportunity to create a Presentation that is fantastical, inventive and (if desired) has absolutely no correlation or even distant resemblance to the "Real You".

The next glaring difference between Facebook and Second Life can be seen in the "Circles" we create on both. On Facebook, the "Circle" ... the primary (and for many only) group of people that we connect with consists of our family members and friends from real-life. We socialize over the relatives we have in common, the jobs and other real-life events we have in common ... in short we share observations and conversations about those things we encounter when we turn off the computer and walk back to "Reality".

On Second Life, the Circles we create and enjoy are based on an entirely different commonality. Furries hang with other Furries, Fashionistas with Fashionistas, RPG'ers team up and socialize with other RPG'ers. The commonalities that build, reaffirm and give our Circles relevance to us are based on personal preferences, but mostly they are based on our non-Reality desires and interests. They are based on preferences and dreams inside our heads that no one in our real-lives shares .. and often don't even know exist. (I mean really, how would YOUR boss react if you told him/her "I love dressing up in blue fur and wearing a long flowing tail"?)

Another personal example: I have two RL kids that also are Residents here in Second Life (ages 30 and 26). The only In-World Groups we share are those we've created just for family stuff (land management etc.). But when we get together and shoot the breeze about Second Life, I only recognize the names of their friends from the past stories, they only recognize the names of my friends from what I've told them before. The commonalities we have are precious few. In fact, I have never once "bumped into" one of my kids on Second Life because we really just do not have anything in common in this fantasy world. My fantasies, my world as I've constructed it, is almost intentionally vastly different from the real-life world we all three share.

Yes, Facebook and many of the other wildly popular Social Networking systems out there are enticing, attracting money in gobs and gobs ... and a lot of thinkers have (and still do) point at the "Socialization" similarity between them and Second Life and exclaim them to be "the same" because of those.

But to me ... calling them the same is tantamount to calling a Porsche and a Garbage Truck the same because they both have wheels.

[squashy Beeswing]

But to me ... calling them the same is tantamount to calling a Porsche and a Garbage Truck the same because they both have wheels.

I like your comparison.  It works for me.  :smileywink:

[Dresden Ceriano]

The simple fact that Facebook requires you to use your real life information when signing up, makes having a Facebook account for your SL AV unwise from the start. Many SL AV's Facebook accounts have been deleted and I'm sure more will be as they are found out.

The only other option would be to have your SL persona linked with your real life existence. A prospect some may be alright with, but they are overwhelmingly in the minority.

That being said, there are other sites around that cater to avatar socialization, which in my opinion would be a much better option. Avatars United was one such site, that LL bought then quickly closed down, saying something about integration of some features within SL (I don't remember the exact quote).

This leads me to believe that the adoption of web based profiles is part of that process. Soon, as I see it, our profiles will start looking more and more like Facebook pages as more and more features are added. A much better option then relying on an unfriendly, out of network platform. After all, who really cares about SL except the people that are already in SL or thinking about joining.

LL using Facebook to promote SL is a completely different thing. After all they are a real life company... and if it helps bring more people into SL, I'm all for it.

...Dres

[Dillon Levenque]

---

squashy Beeswing wrote:

But to me ... calling them the same is tantamount to calling a Porsche and a Garbage Truck the same because they both have wheels.

I like your comparison.  It works for me.  :smileywink:

---

I like it too. Reminds me of a similar comparison made here by Deltango Vale:http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Community-Feedback/A-request-for-solutions-to-the-resident-names-problem/m-p/748847#M1699 who has commented here at length on this very subject (although this particular thread was about something else).

Yes, Second Life is a social network. No, it is not comparable to Facebook. I do see some friends who use Twitter to communicate with their SL friends and I guess that's okay, but I'd rather be inworld talking than texting with Twitter.

[Cabbage Acanthus]

 

---

Darrius Gothly wrote:

Little,

I think you have a fairly astute observation of one of the core purposes of Second Life, social interaction. Clubs, Art Shows, amazing and wonderous Sim builds, Live Music, Charity Events .. the list goes on and on. The opportunitues exist everywhere and the tools to socialize on a level completely unattainable in other common Internet Technologies are a powerful part of the Second Life experience. (As a personal example, using other technologies I have spent hours chatting with someone about a broad range of personal and enjoyable topics, but until Second Life I had never spent that time DANCING with them as well.)

But the fact that Facebook (for example) is based on a "Social Networking" paradigm does not make it the same as the social activities or interests that occur in Second Life. There are massive differences in how the two socialization machines work .. differences based not just on superficial or easily altered behaviors either.

I'll start with the upper-level and most visible attribute of both platforms, Member Presentation. In Facebook, members of the site are required to fill out a profile that specifically requests their true and accurate details. Without getting into the privacy battle currently waging in and around Facebook, it's important to realize that the information they request / require is expected to be true and specific to who you are both online and offline. In short, the Member Presentation that Facebook expects you to provide is the same type of presentation you show to people you pass in the Mall, the store, at Church and even at family reunions. In short, they expect you to provide them details of the "Real You".

Second Life however is almost completely on the opposite end of that scale. The Profile that new Second Life Residents are provided is short on real-life details (and those are completely optional without any "penalty") and very long on fantasy and imagination. It is designed to provide the member an opportunity to create a Presentation that is fantastical, inventive and (if desired) has absolutely no correlation or even distant resemblance to the "Real You".

The next glaring difference between Facebook and Second Life can be seen in the "Circles" we create on both. On Facebook, the "Circle" ... the primary (and for many only) group of people that we connect with consists of our family members and friends from real-life. We socialize over the relatives we have in common, the jobs and other real-life events we have in common ... in short we share observations and conversations about those things we encounter when we turn off the computer and walk back to "Reality".

On Second Life, the Circles we create and enjoy are based on an entirely different commonality. Furries hang with other Furries, Fashionistas with Fashionistas, RPG'ers team up and socialize with other RPG'ers. The commonalities that build, reaffirm and give our Circles relevance to us are based on personal preferences, but mostly they are based on our non-Reality desires and interests. They are based on preferences and dreams inside our heads that no one in our real-lives shares .. and often don't even know exist. (I mean really, how would YOUR boss react if you told him/her "I love dressing up in blue fur and wearing a long flowing tail"?)

Another personal example: I have two RL kids that also are Residents here in Second Life (ages 30 and 26). The only In-World Groups we share are those we've created just for family stuff (land management etc.). But when we get together and shoot the breeze about Second Life, I only recognize the names of their friends from the past stories, they only recognize the names of my friends from what I've told them before. The commonalities we have are precious few. In fact, I have never once "bumped into" one of my kids on Second Life because we really just do not have anything in common in this fantasy world. My fantasies, my world as I've constructed it, is almost intentionally vastly different from the real-life world we all three share.

Yes, Facebook and many of the other wildly popular Social Networking systems out there are enticing, attracting money in gobs and gobs ... and a lot of thinkers have (and still do) point at the "Socialization" similarity between them and Second Life and exclaim them to be "the same" because of those.

But to me ... calling them the same is tantamount to calling a Porsche and a Garbage Truck the same because they both have wheels.

---

 

QFT

[charity Hollow]

Not me. I got rid of my Facebook when I logged in one day and saw my settings changed. I wanted it private and they added new features, so the update automatically checked me as yes to viewable to public. So until I came in and checked out off these my information was public. Personally I think the whole social networking thing is out of hand. I don't want people from Secondlife trying to add me to their Plurks, Twitters, Myspaces, and Facebooks. It's all overwhelming. Is nothing private anymore?

[charity Hollow]

"The simple fact that Facebook requires you to use your real life information when signing up, makes having a Facebook account for your SL AV unwise from the start. Many SL AV's Facebook accounts have been deleted and I'm sure more will be as they are found out."

 

Damn right it is. Like I say, nothing is secure, safe, nor private. Especially FB. I think it's also really stupid when people post their email on their profile for anybody to reach them. There are reverse email lookups. Where strangers can see ALL of your social networks you belong to, online photo albums, anything that you have signed up with that email to. Plus what you do, your income, your hobbies, everything. It amazes me how naive people are to freely sign up for things that do more damage than good.

[Little Ming]

• "secondlife is based around the concept of a social environment".  Really?  That's news to me.  I thought it was a highly-customisable world in which we could do more or les whatever we liked.

If it was not based around the idea of a social platform there would be no online component, profiles, sharing of inventory, images, friends lists, etc. There would be no purpose for them. There are anti-social individuals who are a part of SL and its creation process, HOWEVER, do not assume there is not a large number of users that DO interact with SL for the main purpose of socialization.

A number of examples, the shoppers, clubbers, role-players, and designers could all benefit from deeper integration and communication methods with other social networks.

 

• "secondlife has not taken steps to harness the power behind social media networks".  Linden Lab seems to keep trying.  There isn't anything on/about those networks that appeals to me though.

Fair enough, there may not be things there that appeal to you, but I can see a demand for them from other users that would. I do realize LL is trying to enhance the social experience, what I am curious about is why they have not taken steps to use what is already there.

 

• "the ability to link a sim directly to your facebook".  Erm, what would I want to link land to Facebook for?  Or are you demonstrating such a massive ignorance of SL that you think it's The Sims?  Should you be referring to avatars then there is a Face-slap button on the profiles window for those that like such things.

I've been around SL for over 5 years now, I assure you that part of my statement was not out of ignorance. Perhaps you are not familiar with the ability to link sim locations outside of SL as web URLs that can be directly loaded into the client for easier teleportation? The idea would be to help share store locations, clubs, interesting sights. Much like the linden labs integration of the grid map on this very website. The feature I'm speaking of would allow direct sharing from within the client itself to other social networks such as facebook, and save an extra step, and extra software running for those users with lower-end systems. Kind of like how youtube has a share link

 

• "what if store objects ... to share a product you like with your friends".  This already exists in SL.

Not quite on the level I am speaking of. There is a way to list individual products, but the marketplace could easily be further integrated to allow direct sharing through other social mediums. Again, reducing the need for external applications and making the work-flow and user experience more seamless.

 

• "I wonder, how many of you would find an interest in such an integration of these two web technologies?"  Possibly more if your ideas made any sense.

I'm sorry I was not clear enough for you on my ideas, I hope that my elaboration on my thoughts will help you to more deeply understand my intent.

 

 

In response to the others who brought up the issues of RL information and the way facebook works, that is something I hadn't considered but is a very valid point. Perhaps LL can look into using the technology they purchased a while back with the social sites based around SL to integrate a more social experience with sharing information both in, and outside of the client.

Still at least having the OPTION to give Secondlife rights to post to your wall would be an interesting concept for users who would take advantage of it.

If my response sounds snide, snippy, condescending, or rude, please do not take it that way, as it's not intended to be.

Also, keep in mind I use Facebook as an example, but it's only one of many potential possibilities of a TYPE of technology for social integration.

[Ishtara Rothschild]

---

Little Ming wrote:

 

So secondlife is based around the concept of a social environment, so it comes as a big surprise to me that secondlife has not taken steps to harness the power behind social media networks and adapt them to enhance user experience in secondlife.

For example, facebook. How many users on secondlife not only have a facebook account, and use it to keep in touch with friends you have made in secondlife as well as share your adventures and stories with your friends? Secondlife already has so many features that could easily be adapted to enhance this communication and sharing among social networks.

Imagine if you will, the ability to link a sim directly to your facebook with description and all with the click of a button. Compare this to existing tools used in the real world for geolocation and "checking in". Or what if store objects were given the option to associate a description linked through the marketplace but able to be linked via the website or directly though the pie menu in game to share a product you like with your friends.

I am only touching the tip of the iceberg with these ideas. I wonder, how many of you would find an interest in such an integration of these two web technologies?

---

FIFY. There is a reason that the Enter key is so big that you can hardly miss it

 

On topic: Personally, I don't have a Facebook account and can't see why I would need one. But even those residents who do have an account use Facebook for a completely different purpose than SL. I mean, the name "Second Life" is program. It's our getaway from reality and all reality-based social networking. I don't know anybody who'd feel comfortable sharing their Second Life with their grandparents.

[Luc Starsider]

Somehow, I find it mildly funny when the OP in this thread is asking for more integration of SL with Facebook, and the OP of this thread asking whether there is to much linking between the two.

What I think this shows, at a very basic level, is that the people of second life should be given a choice if, or when, LL decide to provide tools for integration. Some people want the integration, but some don't.

Personally, I do not have a Facebook or Twitter account. I don't have any plans on I'm going to create accounts on either platform. If I did though, I'm confident that I would not want any links between my SL existence and Twittbook.

- Luc -

[PeterCanessa Oh]

---

Little Ming wrote:

• "secondlife is based around the concept of a social environment".  Really?  That's news to me.  I thought it was a highly-customisable world in which we could do more or les whatever we liked.

If it was not based around the idea of a social platform there would be no online component, profiles, sharing of inventory, images, friends lists, etc. There would be no purpose for them. There are anti-social individuals who are a part of SL and its creation process, HOWEVER, do not assume there is not a large number of users that DO interact with SL for the main purpose of socialization.

---

OK, we're obviously not going to understand each other.  You appear to be saying that because it's online and involves more than one person it's "a social environment" and therefore needs twit-face.  I could as easily say that because there ARE online components, profiles, sharing of inventory, images, friends lists, etc. that SL is "based around" the concept of a consumerism marketplace.  I'm a shopper and designer and I would not benefit from any integration or communication method with social networks, consumerism marketplaces maybe.  So eBay would suit me more than twit-face.  SL is SL, however, I refute and reject completely your assumption that it is 'like' twit-face.

Now, yes, those people who want to use twit-face and happen to also use SL might benefit.  So why don't these social networks integrate SL, obviously there's more in it for them than us.

Are you really saying you can't post a SLURL to twit-face by the way, or are you complaining about the way the internet works and blaming it on SL?

Sorry, but I just don't get what you're talking about, if not twit-face should do things differently and it's SL's fault.

[Little Ming]

It's not so much a complaint as it is a suggestion or an idea. I do not expect everyone to want it, or to even use it. There are hundreds of existing features in SL that every day residents never even touch, but they are there for the ones who do make use of it.

I understand what you are saying now, thank you for elaborating on your original thoughts. While I don't agree with your viewpoint I do understand it much more clearly now and can see your side of it. So perhaps you would not use the features, but does that mean they should never exist because some people would not use them? If that ideal were true, then there would be no buy function on prims. There would be no parcel media. There would be no landmark function. There would be no marketplace.

Not everyone uses these features, some use a portion of them, some use all of them, and some use none of them but participate in SL in a different fashion. But they are available for the users who WANT to use them. What I am suggesting is not a mandatory feature for users, but the availability of such a feature.

Just because I say Secondlife is built around the idea of a social environment, does not mean that I am specifically talking about ideas like facebook or twitter or any number of other social sites. Part of the appeal of secondlife to many of the users is that it offers a very social and interactive environment. Whether you agree or not, by definition, Secondlife is a social platform. That is a fact, not an opinion, and it is even advertised as such in many of their marketing themes.

 

[Kidd Krasner]

 

---

Little Ming wrote:

A number of examples, the shoppers, clubbers, role-players, and designers could all benefit from deeper integration and communication methods with other social networks.

---

 

Other than designers, you haven't given any way that the others would benefit from such integration.  Designers (and club owners, landlords, etc.) could benefit from the advertising potential of such networks.

But for the others, I have yet to see any benefits identified for such integration.  The ability to use SLurls already exists, and works from any web site.   Various blogs and other web sites already meet my needs for shopping, etc.  Even if I used one of the social networking sites (and there is one that I do use - but for business), I haven't seen any other types of integration that would provide that sort of value.

 

---

...I've been around SL for over 5 years now, I assure you that part of my statement was not out of ignorance. Perhaps you are not familiar with the ability to link sim locations outside of SL as web URLs that can be directly loaded into the client for easier teleportation? The idea would be to help share store locations, clubs, interesting sights. Much like the linden labs integration of the grid map on this very website. The feature I'm speaking of would allow direct sharing from within the client itself to other social networks such as facebook, and save an extra step, and extra software running for those users with lower-end systems. Kind of like how youtube has a share link

---

I think that you're omitting the motivations and contexts here.  I can imagine someone motivated by advertising wanting the ability to post something on some other site from within SL.  But no third-party interface, including SL, can be expected to support all the features of all the other sites.  So, other than being able to provide a parameterized link to a web site (something that's probably scriptable already), what would make that better?

But for someone not motivated by advertising, there are already mechanisms within SL for sharing such info: group notices, group IM, or friend-conference IM.  Granted, all of these need improvements, including better persistence for group notices, but no outside site can compete with the relevance and focus provided by these.  The reason why YouTube needs a share link is precisely because it isn't essentially a social interaction site, notwithstanding the ability to comment on individual videos or create groups.  But SL is a social interaction site already, so integrating with other sites is, at best, redundant.

Perhaps that's why LL is doing things like putting profiles on the web.  The benefit to ordinary users isn't going to be integrating with those third party networks; it's going to be implementing their useful features within SL. 

 

 

[PeterCanessa Oh]

Meanwhile - LL supports our virtual world so much:

Marketplace "Dash Deals" will be communicated by Twitter and Facebook.

SO NO F**KING OPTION FOR PEOPLE IN SECOND LIFE THEN LINDENS?  Would a MOTD on marketplace login be so hard, for instance?  What, particularly, is the obsession with NOT using SL for communications?

[Little Ming]

I just wanted to say I tried out the new viewer, and guess what? It has options to link in your social networking sites on your profile! YAY! Thank you Linden Labs!

[Little Ming]

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/July-Update/ba-p/964435

Another big thank you Linden Labs for taking a suggestion and making it better than anything I could have hoped for. Two thumbs up!