refund of money when rental space is refused

[Xiomara Lavendel]

i paid 3200 lindens for four weeks of rental time from shamrock estates. the landlord says she will set up for me. When I inquire of the new tenant special, which is a free week when four are paid she tells me she cannot rent to me and for me to "scoot" I am then called a stalker amongst other things. How to get money back is what i wish to know. The owner told me to ner return there. have no idea of what happened or why.

[Pamela Galli]

Unless the landlord wants to give you the money, you can not get it back.

[Abigail Longmeadow]

Linden Lab does not become involved in most resident to resident disputes:

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Transactions-and-disputes-between-Residents/ta-p/799395

Rand Linden posted this on the Knowledge Base:

People sometimes seek help with questions such as the following:
•I rented a land parcel from another Resident and they are taking it back from me, even though I paid the fees or rent.
•Another Resident is not upholding their agreement regarding real estate, group management, performance of services, or division of revenue.
•I paid for something, but didn't receive it as promised.
•I provided something, but the buyer didn't pay for it as promised.

However, Linden Lab cannot verify, enforce, certify, examine, uphold, or adjudicate any oath, contract, deal, bargain, or agreement made by the Residents of Second Life.  Nor does Linden Lab enforce or uphold rental agreements between Residents.  While you may have a valid agreement with another person, Linden Lab is not a party to and cannot resolve your dispute.   Please contact the Resident involved and resolve the issue with them.

[Alwin Alcott]

i'm nearly sure, without judging, we only hear a very small part of the story....

[Syo Emerald]

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Alwin Alcott wrote:

i'm nearly sure, without judging, we only hear a very small part of the story....

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Thats almost always true to any kind of complain we here in this forum.

[Conifer Dada]

This is why I think an official LL rental system would be a good idea.  By this I mean an option on the 'about land' tab to rent your and out, where you can set the fee and timescale.  By this method tenants could be safeguarded, so that even if a landowner defaulted on their tier and forfeited the land to Governor Linden, the tenant could still be safe for the remainder of the rental period.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Conifer Dada wrote:

This is why I think an official LL rental system would be a good idea.  By this I mean an option on the 'about land' tab to rent your and out, where you can set the fee and timescale.  By this method tenants could be safeguarded, so that even if a landowner defaulted on their tier and forfeited the land to Governor Linden, the tenant could still be safe for the remainder of the rental period.

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This kind of thing already exists with selling something by setting the prim for sale.  However LL does not refund money if you pay for something and don't get what you pay for.

The bottom line is LL does not want to get involved in transactions between residents and won't.

[Alwin Alcott]

did you know LL has that?...

it's called premium and gives you the right to get mainland and pay them tier, so your land is protected.

[Prokofy Neva]

I'd absolutely oppose this. There is absolutely no reason for it, and it would be an unnecessary and negative intrusion into the economy.

For those that that want to have the equivalent of state-owned housing or "assisted living," there are Linden Homes. There ALREADY IS an interface where you can click "rent this home" on secondlife.com which is "buying" a Linden Home and parcel. There is no risk in this as there is in renting from a third-party. I use "buying" in quotations merely because nothing in Second Life is ever really "bought" or "owned" -- as the TOS explains, you are buying a user license.

You're making an assumption that if Linden Lab got into the rental business inworld -- which they've never shown an appetite for, thank God -- they'd set it up so that all renters got refunds. But judging how they collect tier -- not on a pro-rated basis for your usage over time, but ONLY for your HIGHEST usage that month -- I don't think you could expect them to have refunds, so be careful what you wish for.

If you put rentals in the land menu, you'd also wipe out the businesses of numerous companies that provide rental boxes of various types and features -- while some monopolists might survive others wouldn't. And why kill resident business because of the unhappy experience of a few.

The reality is, if you right-click on a prim and send money to that prim, it's your own fault if you have not examined that prim thoroughly at first to see if it will refund your money.

Many rental agencies do not refund money because the costs of running rental businesses are high and the margins slim.

I'm one of the few companies that DOES offer refunds and I can attest to it. It's also a system that is abused, as people hop around renting and refunding. You can put in a cancellation fee to discourage that, but often you find people whining and special-pleading as to why that should be returned.

In my view, the chief problem with managing fraud or unethical behaviour in Second Life is the inability to call such behaviour out on the forums by naming names. In real life, only a free press and an open and independent judiciary system can deter crime.

But there's a reason for that: it's anonymous people denouncing other anonymous people and we don't know the agenda or the facts of the story. Only LL knows, but only if they spend staff time investigating and that's simply not the best use of their time.

Instead of devising global ways to ruin the economy, given more power to the state, and not prevent the problem you imagine (because some people, especially on private islands, will simply go on using private rental scripts and insist on their use), you should think about how to make consumer protection groups or blogs and perform the hard work that goes into them.

[Deltango Vale]

As with everything in this life, you need to deal with reputable people. I, for example, give a full refund within the first week if a tenant is unhappy (no questions asked). I also refund unused rent if a tenant gives me enough notice. My goal is to make my tenants happy so that they will remain a long time and tell their friends. It's called customer service.

The great irony is that customer service is built on RAW GREED. Yes, you read that right. You see, screwing your customers results in LOWER profits. Treating your customers like gold results in HIGHER profits. Stupid people don't understand this principle - and they go out of business rather quickly.

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Deltango Vale wrote:

The great irony is that customer service is built on RAW GREED.

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It's actually sauteed greed, seasoned to taste... but greed nonetheless.

[Deltango Vale]

Haha. Well said, Maddy. And a nice glass of red wine goes well with it too.

[philomathia]

I saw Shamrock had nice house for rent so I visited it a few times. Luckily before I could pay got IM from one of the owners that if I had genuine interest in place she will be glad to have me but if not genuine to move on. Therefore, I am keeping my business with Bloom Estates. Who needs a free week when dealing with someone whom has no manners.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

You are not allowed to name and shame here.  Remove the names from your post and substute a generic word or words instead.

 I don't know how many a 'few' times were, but that landlord had a legitimate concern.  Some people will use a rental as their own without renting it when the landlord is off line or they just hope it won't be noticed.   I am not saying you did, but she had no way of knowing if you did or were going to.  If she said what you stated, I don't think that's rude.  You could have replied you thought you were interested but wanted to be sure before committing and asked her any questions you had.