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Eric Castanea

LL - Please don't force viewer 2 on us

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It's slow, cumbersome - simply awful. And if I'm forced to use it, it will degrade my Second Life experience terribly. It freezes, it's jerky - I could write a book on it's shortcomings. And really - I've tried hard to use it and make it work. I can't. I can't even walk around without it freezing up.

Please think of your customers, LL. Give us a choice not to use it. Don't force it on us.

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Nods !

1.23.5 is still okay for login.

I am using 2 since 2.4 because it has attachments that can be added at the same points and 1.23.5 doesn't show the added attachments. It is the only reason for me. I have waited a very long to use it so i have been using it since last Dec, but i am strongly thinking to switch back to 1.23.5 because i simply am not going to use 3rd party viewers since LL's acceptance on the TPV actually has too little value. And I have never ever trusted 3rd parties.

Actually I do have higher fps with 2 but it is tedious, and very screen cluttering. Specially the sidebar is a drama. And all those extra bars at the top brrr.

Earlier Philip Linden has announced that 1.23.5 will stay available for login as long as 2 isn't upto a mainstream point of acceptance. Rumours are that Philip isn't very satisfied by it either, however i don't have the impression that he is very committed at the moment to quickly do something about it since he is occupied with a very different project which he wants to promote to the IT industry in order to add a product to LL's portfolio other than SL.

In short: you have my vote !

And i prolly will go back to 1.23.5.

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Dunno, it is no secret that Philip Linden isn't very satisfied about 2 at the moment either. For what i understood from him from a television interview the new viewer is being rethinked, however I think they are in a stall what to do.

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Viewer 2 is actually really good if you are using one of the TPVs based on its code.

-Kirstens Viewer is the one I am using at the moment. I get twice the FPS I get on the other viewers. The UI is much better than any LL official viewer. With a quick change in debug settings the near me radar fictions exactly as the Phoenix radar. Also if using the default skin, there is no sidebar.

-Phoenix Firestorm will be releasing preview 2 this weekend. I still get lower FPS than Kirstens with this one. The UI is far better than Kirstens. The chat windows resemble that of the 1.24 viewers. It will have the same radar that Kirstens has. There is no sidebar. This is still a pre-alpha viewer and thus still has a few bugs, also some functions are not yet available.

 

The bottom line is V2 is here to stay. I am not a V2 fanboy I use Phoenix, Kirstens, Firestorm, Dolphin 2 and not a single viewer set put by LL but I do like progress and I do like new stuff and moving forward and being stuck in an old fashion viewer like 1.24 is...well..old fashion. 

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Linda Brynner wrote:

Dunno, it is no secret that Philip Linden isn't very satisfied about 2 at the moment either. For what i understood from him from a television interview the new viewer is being rethinked, however I think they are in a stall what to do.

LL has given SL residents the power to shape the viewer with project snowstorm. Since the beginning of the project the official LL V2 viewer updates has come from any changes made by those who participate in this program. It is beyond me why the V2 UI still resembles the original LL V2 UI which most people loathe. I am guessing that the script kiddies participating are more about coding new shiny features we don't want rather than being about functionality and UI design. 

 

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I wonder if people dont like V2 is because it doesnt work smoothly on THEIR machine or they havent got the patience to work it out. 

Evrytime i ask someone what the problem is , they cant usually give a specific reason, which leads me to believe that , as with everything in life, most people just don't like change.

Viewer 2 is a bit limited in places and complicated in others , but it works once you understand it. Some people are so impatient. If its all you've known, you just get on with it.

On V2 i can do everything that others can do with different viewers and usually faster. Not because V2 is a better viewer , not because i'm particularly clever, just because of practice and not giving up when its a bit tricky.

I've been on SL 9 months and wouldn't use anything else. 

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There are many reasons why people prefer one viewer above another.

Personally I just don't like the way v2 works, where the buttons are, how it made my viewe smaller, how I just had less freedom then I have with Phoenix.

Also v2 didn't have some of the great extra gadgets such as the radar, the copy/paste of prim settings, sizes, textures, etc.

As a builder phoenix has a lot of thingd I wouldn't want to do without.

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As a Builder , Radar .... Always the same , everytime I ask someone why they use Phoenix , I get this answer, because they are builders.... Wow they stick 1 Cube on another and call it Building! Its making me rage against those people , why can't people Simply accept V2 , Viewer 2 is good it just needs a bit practice like said before , and it has a Radar too BTW , which can easily be tweaked to work up to unlimited meters (if you know the debug stetting or got a Viewer like Kirstens with my Mod for it which allows to set the range up to 4800m) , BTW im a Builder since 3,5 Years now , im Building , Scripting , doing Machinima , Chat with People and all that stuff , and I DON'T need a stupid Radar because im not Paranoid I don't need to spy after people 24/7 all my life long , back to building ... Well I never had those Ultra freaky super duper features of Phoenix (I hate it because of its past) and I often build faster and better than many People out there with their super features which are just ideas of a handful people who didn't want to use their hand and move it around to actually create stuff

im using Viewer 2 and im pretty happy with it , I always have the newest stuff , features , and it gives me much more playground for my UI Mods , yes im a UI modder aswell , and I did a Skin for it too, im just not using the official Viewer 2 because it lacks too much behind Kirstens and simply misses too much compatibility to my Mods

you can take a look at some pictures of what i did for Viewer 2

My Blog

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NiranV Dean wrote:

As a Builder , Radar .... Always the same , everytime I ask someone why they use Phoenix , I get this answer, because they are builders.... Wow they stick 1 Cube on another and call it Building! Its making me rage against those people , why can't people Simply accept V2 , Viewer 2 is good it just needs a bit practice like said before , and it has a Radar too BTW , which can easily be tweaked to work up to unlimited meters (if you know the debug stetting or got a Viewer like Kirstens with my Mod for it which allows to set the range up to 4800m) , BTW im a Builder since 3,5 Years now , im Building , Scripting , doing Machinima , Chat with People and all that stuff , and I DON'T need a stupid Radar because im not Paranoid I don't need to spy after people 24/7 all my life long , back to building ... Well I never had those Ultra freaky super duper features of Phoenix (I hate it because of its past) and I often build faster and better than many People out there with their super features which are just ideas of a handful people who didn't want to use their hand and move it around to actually create stuff

im using Viewer 2 and im pretty happy with it , I always have the newest stuff , features , and it gives me much more playground for my UI Mods , yes im a UI modder aswell , and I did a Skin for it too, im just not using the official Viewer 2 because it lacks too much behind Kirstens and simply misses too much compatibility to my Mods

you can take a look at some pictures of what i did for Viewer 2


 

This^

Btw, off topic since you seem to know a lot about Kirstens, how do I get everything with any level of shine to become invisible (as in it literally becomes an invisiprim). I am sure is some setting but I have not been able to figure out what it is and nobody in Kirsten's website has answered my question. 

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I think I've done more then put two cubes on another.

I would accept V2 if I liked it and it I enjoyed working with it, neither is the case.

The phoenix radar has other options and you may not need it, I do, I have to manage a sim with rules.

Phoenix has building options that I immediatly miss when I try to work on V2.

If V2 is fine for you, congratulations.

I just prefer Phoenix.

Nothing to get upset about.

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Eric Castanea wrote:

It's slow, cumbersome - simply awful. And if I'm forced to use it, it will degrade my Second Life experience terribly. It freezes, it's jerky - I could write a book on it's shortcomings. And really - I've tried hard to use it and make it work. I can't. I can't even walk around without it freezing up.

Please think of your customers, LL. Give us a choice not to use it. Don't force it on us.

uhmm..no..it's beautifully smooth and stable for me. FPS is excellent with between 30-80 depending on sim and even occasionally over 100 on really quiet well managed islands. Textures rez fast and it's a really nice viewer to use apart from Search which is not as refined as I would like to see it. The outfits feature is fantastic, one of the best parts to viewer 2.

I usually use Kirstens take on viewer 2 which is always a couple of versions ahead of the publicly released viewer on the download page and it's even better. Even on ultra with full lighting & shadows and GI on, I can still achieve 15 fps and move around easily. Not options for normal running around in busy shopping malls and clubs but great for photography and quiet sims. Had problems with L & S a while back but a gpu driver update sorted that.

I've been using viewer 2 official or Kirstens for a long time now and would find a viewer 1 based client very strange indeed despite the fact that I used viewer 1 since about 1.12 (I think..late 2006 anyway).

If you post your computer details (Preferences > Help > About Second Life), we could probably suggest ways to get it running better for you. For those who don't like the official viewer 2, there are choices, which is wonderful for everyone.

 

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V2 works great for me and it's getting better and better - Starlight skin download really adds to it as well. OK I'll admit I don't especially like web profiles - but that's not essentially a V2 thing - more a change of server reources for LL. But no - I'm quite happy with V2.5 and looking forward to what TPVs can do with the V2 code.

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Don't feed the v2 fan-trolls.

The UI and usability issues of v2 are well documented. If it worked well enough for most people that it was being adopted by the majority of residents LL would have shut down the 1.x viewers. The fact is that v2 still has a way to go, by LL's own admission (see Snowstorm Project backlog). It's progressed since it's original version but still lacks features needed by more advanced users.

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Deej Kasshiki wrote:

Don't feed the v2 fan-trolls.

The UI and usability issues of v2 are well documented. If it worked well enough for most people that it was being adopted by the majority of residents LL would have shut down the 1.x viewers. The fact is that v2 still has a way to go, by LL's own admission (see Snowstorm Project backlog). It's progressed since it's original version but still lacks features needed by more advanced users.

 

To be honest the 'official' viewer will always lack functions/features that some people (advanced or otherwise) will like and want - that's why LL allows and indeed encourages TPV development - one viewer will never suit everyone, choice is a wonderful thing.

Oh and I'm not a V2 fan-troll just cos I like the viewer and it works for me. If someone else brings out a viewer based on V2 code I like better I'll use that - I have always said that blind support of any piece of software (and other things) would be just silly - and that goes in all directions.

Cheers :smileyhappy:

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I think it was probably for the language you used rather than the content - mods are really being hot on deleting posts/threads that contain swearing, abusive language and even "masked" vulgarity. Next time try to do it without the non G rated words.

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I can't STAND the inventory!  The font they use is so huge, and that goes for search as well.  I can't stand having to page through search rather than getting a nice long list on one page.  And speaking of search...it's broken.  I can't bring up people that I can bring up on another viewer.  Pictures don't match profiles in search either.  Old profile pictures sometimes show up in search, but if you click on the name in the friends list, I get the newer picture that the person has uploaded.  It's just pitiful.

I once worked for a company that rolled out a pathetic application.  All the people who had to interface with the application knew it was horrible, but the company kept on.  Finally, after TWO YEARS, they bagged it.  They spent so much money on that thing.  Problem is, they didn't get the right people to test and the testing was flawed, so the application was rolled out and doomed for failure.  Viewer 2 is following that path, and if we're lucky, they'll get rid of it and develop something that most of the users really like.

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Lulu Lysette wrote:

I can't STAND the inventory!  The font they use is so huge, and that goes for search as well.  I can't stand having to page through search rather than getting a nice long list on one page.  And speaking of search...it's broken.  I can't bring up people that I can bring up on another viewer.  Pictures don't match profiles in search either.  Old profile pictures sometimes show up in search, but if you click on the name in the friends list, I get the newer picture that the person has uploaded.  It's just pitiful.

<snipped>

 

I've not had a problem with the font in the inventory (or indeed the inventory at all to be honest). I agree that search is borked completely but that's going to affect all viewers in a short while as it's not the UI that lets it down but rather the search software LL have chosen to use.

As these things are tested first on V2 (like profiles) it's too easy to lump them together with the viewer itself - one of the mistakes LL made in allowing two distinctly different code systems to co-exist. And for those who would say if they didn't people would have left SL in droves - I really don't believe that - concurrency may have suffered for a while but people would eventually have returned to their addiction and it might have encouraged TPV developers to work on viewers based on the new code sooner rather than preening about adding pretty bits to the old code.

Just my opinion of course.:smileyhappy:

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Eric Castanea wrote:

Please think of your customers, LL. Give us a choice not to use it. Don't force it on us.

LL is not forcing viewer 2 on its customers. There are many options each person can decide upon. :smileywink:

 

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