Second life mechanics, will it change?

[Lord Derryth]

Hi, old second lifer here that actually was in alpha testing and became a local linden for the noobies.  I've seen this game grow from the ugliest most hidious game to an amazing replica of fantasy life.  I've always wondered if they will ever change the mechanics of movement and the playablity.  I tried out Entropia Universe for the first time and I must say, looks quite appealing.  The character models and movement is really good.  I always wondered if the payers are tired of constant lag in high populated sims and character game mechanics that seem so old.  What are your thoughts and do you feel that SL should change as the technology is available in today's world?

[Sassy Romano]

You've not seen the threads about SL v2/TNG/replacement then?

I wouldn't expect anything to change in SL, it's 100% in maintenance mode only.  The developers are elsewhere...

[Lord Derryth]

I'm actually a bit lost here.  I've combed the forums and not found anything about SL V2.  However, I did see that ONLive was sold during Easter weekend.  There's a new SL v2 and that's bad?

[Coby Foden]

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Lord Derryth wrote:

I'm actually a bit lost here.  I've combed the forums and not found anything about SL V2.

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https://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Linden-Lab-is-building-a-NEW-virtual-world/td-p/2753476

(PS. It will not be SL2.)

[Lord Derryth]

I see what you mean.  Basically, the SL V2 is coming out but it's not backwards compatable.  So now all the creators will have to start over.  Not to mention, we can't transfer over to V2 so we start over.  Well, I guess you need to stop buying and wait for SL V2 to come out in another 2-4 years.  Not going to be anytime soon if I know Linden Labs.  The death of SL I suppose.

[ChinRey]

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Lord Derryth wrote:

The death of SL I suppose.

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Not really. By all accounts LL's New Project is so different from SL it won't have any direct impact at all. The people who like SL probably won't be that much attracted to this new virtual world but hopefully other people who don't find SL interesting will be. No matter what happens to this new world, LL will continue to run SL for as long as there are enough users and paying customers here to make it worth it for them.

High Fidelity seems to have a concept much closer to SL's but it too seems different enough it won't be a direct competitor. From what I've heard and seen (I'm an alpha tester there), they seem to focus more on the IMVU than the SL segment of the market.

The indirect impact the New Project will have on SL is harder to predict. There are obnviously both positive and negative implications.

On the plus side:

• Even though the two virtual worlds are very different, there will laways be some solutions LL develops or buys for the new one that will also work well for the old.
• Working on the New Project broadens and strengthens LL's competence in several key fields.
• The New Project will offer an alternative outlet for variouos LL empolyees' misplaced creativity so we should expect to see fewer headless "improvements" in the future. We already see that effect. The updates LL has done to SL recently seems to have been much more focused on genuine improvements (as opposed to buzzword driven solo flights) than ever before.
• The New Project will give LL a broader and more solid economical and organisational base - if it succeeds that is.
• The New Project will offer at least some SL content creators a bigger and broader market to sell their works.

On the minus side:

• LL will have les time to focus on SL.
• LL is bound to try to implement soltuions from the New Project in SL even if they don't fit.
• LL might make the mistake of believing the New Project can replace SL (although the leaders there at least seem to know better by now).

The bottom line is, there are already dozens - maybe hundreds - of interactive virtual 3D environments of different kinds and one new one shouldn't really affect SL much even if it happens to be run by the same company.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Lord Derryth wrote:

I see what you mean.  Basically, the SL V2 is coming out but it's not backwards compatible.

We don't know that for certain yet, neither does LL.

So now all the creators will have to start over.  

I wouldn't see why they would have to. All they would need to do is make their items compatible with the new platform and re-upload them.

Not to mention, we can't transfer over to V2 so we start over.  

Again, we don't know that yet.

Well, I guess you need to stop buying and wait for SL V2 to come out in another 2-4 years.

Yay, thanks for spread the FUD. 

Not going to be anytime soon if I know Linden Labs.  The death of SL I suppose.

Like,

Ursula

Zindra, closing the teen grid, Mesh, scuplties, flexi prims, voice, Pathfinding, and all of the other things were supposed to kill off SL? More FUD.

Please, go back under your rock.

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By the by.. I was the first person on this forum to call it SLv2™. So I want my 5L for each use. That's in my ToS. Pay up people.

[Coby Foden]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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Lord Derryth wrote:

I see what you mean.  Basically, the SL V2 is coming out but it's not backwards compatible.

We don't know that for certain yet, neither does LL.

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By the by.. I was the first person on this forum to call it SLv2™. So I want my 5L for each use. That's in my ToS. Pay up people.

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Drake, you chose to call it with a misleading name. 

I will continue calling it "Next Generation Platform", just like Linden Lab does; so long until the final name for the platform is made public.

(PS, If I ever, by mistake, happen to call it as SLv2™ I will pay you the 5 L$). :matte-motes-big-grin:

:smileywink: :matte-motes-asleep:

[Bobbie Faulds]

I spoke with someone today that does some scripting for one of the beta testers of the new platform. It is TOTALLY different and I don't really see it having much impact on the current SL. From the beta test, there won't be a grid, per se, like there is now. You'll pay a fee per year and have to host your own "domain", the equivalent of a sim, among other things. So totally different that It will probably attract a totally different crowd than those that play in SL.

[Derek Torvalar]

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Bobbie Faulds wrote:

I spoke with someone today that does some scripting for one of the beta testers of the new platform. It is TOTALLY different and I don't really see it having much impact on the current SL. From the beta test, there won't be a grid, per se, like there is now.

You'll pay a fee per year and have to host your own "domain"

, the equivalent of a sim, among other things. So totally different that It will probably attract a totally different crowd than those that play in SL.

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That is what HiFi is doing.

Surprised?

ETA HiFi is only in Alpha, for about a year now, and it is still in Alpha. The new platform here is nowhere near being in Beta, especially if they are doing what HiFi is doing.

[ChinRey]

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Derek Torvalar wrote

ETA HiFi is only in Alpha, for about a year now, and it is still in Alpha.

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That's a very good point. With all respect to LL's development team, I find it hard to believe they're able to work faster and more efficiently than the HiFi guys. Realistically we're probably talking two or three years of alpha and beta testing before the first "finished" version of such a complex project is launched.

[irihapeti]

depends

if Philip cant use any LL or other companies patent stuff for HiFi then he has to invent new ways of doing pretty much everything thats not already in public domain, opensource or patent expired if prev. patent. LL can use what belongs to them already or have licensed

eta. HiFi wants to opensource everything (seems like) so will be slower to dev than LL, assume LL is going closed source and in part using others peoples licensed stuff 

[OzwellWayfarer]

Obviously, this is going to sound slightly rich coming from a merchant, but if people want SL to endure, the very worst thing they can do is stop buying things and renting land to "wait and see" what comes in a few years. That will kill SL quicker than any new platform.

SL will run until it becomes unprofitable to maintain. How long that will be is really anyones guess. I would not count on it being here forever, but I still think we have a good number of years ahead of us.

[Derek Torvalar]

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irihapeti wrote:

depends

if Philip cant use any LL or other companies patent stuff for HiFi then he has to invent new ways of doing pretty much everything thats not already in public domain, opensource or patent expired if prev. patent. LL can use what belongs to them already or have licensed

eta. HiFi wants to opensource everything (seems like) so will be slower to dev than LL, assume LL is going closed source and in part using others peoples licensed stuff 

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HiFi and LL have a loose agreement. It would not be surprising to learn that one hand is washing the other in this endeavour.

[ChinRey]

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Derek Torvalar wrote:

HiFi and LL have a loose agreement. It would not be surprising to learn that one hand is washing the other in this endeavour.

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Maybe not just loose. Linden Lab is one of the four biggest investors in High Fidelity. (Actually I believe I've heard it's one of the two biggest but couldn't find confirmation for that right now.)

[LlazarusLlong]

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OzwellWayfarer wrote:

Obviously, this is going to sound slightly rich coming from a merchant, but if people want SL to endure, the very worst thing they can do is stop buying things and renting land to "wait and see" what comes in a few years.

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Maybe those who want SL to endure should just give lots of money to merchants for nothing.

It achieves the same end.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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LlazarusLlong wrote:

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OzwellWayfarer wrote:

Obviously, this is going to sound slightly rich coming from a merchant, but if people want SL to endure, the very worst thing they can do is stop buying things and renting land to "wait and see" what comes in a few years.

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Maybe those who want SL to endure should just give lots of money to merchants for nothing.

It achieves the same end.

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It isn't for nothing. You are paying for virtual items to entertain yourself with. Just like going to the movies or an amusement park. At the end of the day none of those things have given you anything but entertainment, and possibly a sunburn from the park.:matte-motes-silly:

[irihapeti]

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Derek Torvalar wrote:

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irihapeti wrote:

depends

if Philip cant use any LL or other companies patent stuff for HiFi then he has to invent new ways of doing pretty much everything thats not already in public domain, opensource or patent expired if prev. patent. LL can use what belongs to them already or have licensed

eta. HiFi wants to opensource everything (seems like) so will be slower to dev than LL, assume LL is going closed source and in part using others peoples licensed stuff 

---

HiFi and LL have a loose agreement. It would not be surprising to learn that one hand is washing the other in this endeavour.

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i not be surprised either about this. That there is or might be some arrangements that are beneficial to both parties

altho between Philip and Andrew (Andrew Linden was the first LL programmer and has huge experience and skill) they have a whole lot of technical knowledge in their heads about how 3D virtual worlds can work. Altho from what I have seen of the HiFi code so far it has little in  common with SL code. Algorithmically tho there are heaps of similarities by necessity

[Derek Torvalar]

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irihapeti wrote:

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Derek Torvalar wrote:

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irihapeti wrote:

depends

if Philip cant use any LL or other companies patent stuff for HiFi then he has to invent new ways of doing pretty much everything thats not already in public domain, opensource or patent expired if prev. patent. LL can use what belongs to them already or have licensed

eta. HiFi wants to opensource everything (seems like) so will be slower to dev than LL, assume LL is going closed source and in part using others peoples licensed stuff 

---

HiFi and LL have a loose agreement. It would not be surprising to learn that one hand is washing the other in this endeavour.

---

i not be surprised either about this. That there is or might be some arrangements that are beneficial to both parties

altho between Philip and Andrew (Andrew Linden was the first LL programmer and has huge experience and skill) they have a whole lot of technical knowledge in their heads about how 3D virtual worlds can work.

Altho from what I have seen of the HiFi code so far it has little in  common with SL code.

Algorithmically tho there are heaps of similarities by necessity

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Do you mean the present SL code or the new platform code?

[irihapeti]

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Derek Torvalar wrote:

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irihapeti wrote:

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Derek Torvalar wrote:

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irihapeti wrote:

depends

if Philip cant use any LL or other companies patent stuff for HiFi then he has to invent new ways of doing pretty much everything thats not already in public domain, opensource or patent expired if prev. patent. LL can use what belongs to them already or have licensed

eta. HiFi wants to opensource everything (seems like) so will be slower to dev than LL, assume LL is going closed source and in part using others peoples licensed stuff 

---

HiFi and LL have a loose agreement. It would not be surprising to learn that one hand is washing the other in this endeavour.

---

i not be surprised either about this. That there is or might be some arrangements that are beneficial to both parties

altho between Philip and Andrew (Andrew Linden was the first LL programmer and has huge experience and skill) they have a whole lot of technical knowledge in their heads about how 3D virtual worlds can work.

Altho from what I have seen of the HiFi code so far it has little in  common with SL code.

Algorithmically tho there are heaps of similarities by necessity

---

Do you mean the present SL code or the new platform code?

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have never seen any nextgen platform code. But can say that algorithmically will be pretty similar. In the same way that WoW is similar to SL, from a algo/engineering design pov

one thing tho that am pretty sure LL will be interested in for nextgen platform is what HiFi have done with facial/voice animation. I would be quite surprised if the LL nextgen world did not include this capability. I dont think it will be the millions members breakthru tho. Just be a nice to have feature 

[Derek Torvalar]

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irihapeti wrote:

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Derek Torvalar wrote:

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irihapeti wrote:

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Derek Torvalar wrote:

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irihapeti wrote:

depends

if Philip cant use any LL or other companies patent stuff for HiFi then he has to invent new ways of doing pretty much everything thats not already in public domain, opensource or patent expired if prev. patent. LL can use what belongs to them already or have licensed

eta. HiFi wants to opensource everything (seems like) so will be slower to dev than LL, assume LL is going closed source and in part using others peoples licensed stuff 

---

HiFi and LL have a loose agreement. It would not be surprising to learn that one hand is washing the other in this endeavour.

---

i not be surprised either about this. That there is or might be some arrangements that are beneficial to both parties

altho between Philip and Andrew (Andrew Linden was the first LL programmer and has huge experience and skill) they have a whole lot of technical knowledge in their heads about how 3D virtual worlds can work.

Altho from what I have seen of the HiFi code so far it has little in  common with SL code.

Algorithmically tho there are heaps of similarities by necessity

---

Do you mean the present SL code or the new platform code?

---

have never seen any nextgen platform code. But can say that algorithmically will be pretty similar. In the same way that WoW is similar to SL, from a algo/engineering design pov

one thing tho that am pretty sure LL will be interested in for nextgen platform is

what HiFi have done with facial/voice animation.

I would be quite surprised if the LL nextgen world did not include this capability. I dont think it will be the millions members breakthru tho. Just be a nice to have feature 

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I wonder if those anxious to partake in HiFi understand that they will not be supporting text chat.

If LL go that route then you can kiss it all goodbye.

(late edit)

[irihapeti]

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Derek Torvalar wrote:

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irihapeti wrote:

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Derek Torvalar wrote:

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irihapeti wrote:

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Derek Torvalar wrote:

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irihapeti wrote:

depends

if Philip cant use any LL or other companies patent stuff for HiFi then he has to invent new ways of doing pretty much everything thats not already in public domain, opensource or patent expired if prev. patent. LL can use what belongs to them already or have licensed

eta. HiFi wants to opensource everything (seems like) so will be slower to dev than LL, assume LL is going closed source and in part using others peoples licensed stuff 

---

HiFi and LL have a loose agreement. It would not be surprising to learn that one hand is washing the other in this endeavour.

---

i not be surprised either about this. That there is or might be some arrangements that are beneficial to both parties

altho between Philip and Andrew (Andrew Linden was the first LL programmer and has huge experience and skill) they have a whole lot of technical knowledge in their heads about how 3D virtual worlds can work.

Altho from what I have seen of the HiFi code so far it has little in  common with SL code.

Algorithmically tho there are heaps of similarities by necessity

---

Do you mean the present SL code or the new platform code?

---

have never seen any nextgen platform code. But can say that algorithmically will be pretty similar. In the same way that WoW is similar to SL, from a algo/engineering design pov

one thing tho that am pretty sure LL will be interested in for nextgen platform is

what HiFi have done with facial/voice animation.

I would be quite surprised if the LL nextgen world did not include this capability. I dont think it will be the millions members breakthru tho. Just be a nice to have feature 

---

I wonder if those anxious to partake in HiFi understand that they will not be supporting text chat.

If LL go this that route then you can kiss it all goodbye.

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i think it will be an addon for LL nextgen. That there will be text in the nextgen as well

voice animation is kinda cool, but is quite difficult to maintain multiple convos with multiple people simultaneously. Is like when using 2 or 3 or more phones at the same time. You have to remember where you are in each convo. And you have to listen to multiple people at the same time to remember where you are

can do multi-convo pretty easy in text chat

[ChinRey]

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irihapeti wrote:

voice animation is kinda cool, but is quite difficult to maintain multiple convos with multiple people simultaneously. Is like when using 2 or 3 or more phones at the same time.

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Yes, and 99 out of 100 don't know how to use a microphone properly, 20 out of 100 have nosiy pets, neighbours, family members and/or TV sets that drown out what they say, 60 out of 100 don't have English as their main language and don't speak it very well, 5 out of 100 have English as their main language but don't speak it bery well anyway...

Oh and 60 out of 100 hear what they want to hear and not what you actually say. ;-)

 

I'm not even remotely interested in joining a voice chat based virtual world or any other kind of voice based internet forum for that matter.