SL V'S RL

[Dizzy2013]

After years of being part a what once was a thriving development it appears now that SL has fallen into the same cycle that destroyed America's economy in the real world "Greed", Real Estate Developers and Land Barons are making it impossible for the average person, new or old simple life participants to obtain land and take advantage of the product SL produces for everybody. Not everybody has the financial ability to be king of the hill, many persons have limited budgets, fixed incomes, or just do not have access or means to compete with developers or barons. In all fairness this just being just a online game, all people that have or wish to join second life should be able to have the ability to experience it and be a part of it in every aspect. SL is not flip this house or battle of the banking mongols.

First of all, the advertising is false, you cannot get property of your own that you choose if you are not prepared to spend a lot of money, because most property is consumed by the rich and resold at 4 to 50 times their value, which the average person just can't afford, which limits a players ability to take an active part in the community. Each participant should have the right to obtain property of their own choosing at fair value so they to can expierence what SL has to offer.

Sadly we should learn our lessons from RL, the greed factor lead to the collapse of our economy and as such if allowed to continue in SL only the same collapse is inevitable, not to mention the number of people that quit because they cannot enjoy what SL has to offer because of this mindset others inflict upon them.

Second and last, SL really needs to implement a limit on the amount of property one can own on the mainland, quite possibbly to one full region and if they desire more they can create they're own sim, or create more off the mainland, the mainland should be protected so that all players Old and New have equal and fair opportunity experience what second life has to offer as the product is advertised for such. And should not be restricted to whatever is left over. All persons should have the same fundamental abilities without regard to status, financial ability or personal wealth. this aspect is getting out of control and must stop or the product will implode within itself and we will lose many good SL followers and be severly limited to the number of new enrollees, it is a trend that destroyed our society in RL, that should not be allowed to exist in SL.

I will not be happy with having to withdraw my VIP status and discontinue being a part of this "GAME", however, myself like many others just do not have the money, or ability to compete with Developers, Barons to be a part of it, we just wish to experience what SL has to offer on a personal level, and have fun and if I must I will, as sad as it may be to leave behind all the friends I have made, I may not have any choice. This is supposed to be fun and entertaining. Why people have to destroy everything they touch and ruin it for everyone else I do not know, maybe it's just the mindset of todays society. In any event SL should take a long hard look at the direction it is going before it is too late.

There is also a national posting that investigators from all divisons of enforcement are looking into these 3D worlds, which is interesting in itself, they have been working undercover within these worlds accumulating data and information, so one has to wonder as to what is going on. I do not believe it is SL itself,because SL does not condone illegal activity, they are interested in the players. So if anyone is involved in any kind of illegal activity they should be warned that the person next to them that they are talking too could be an investigator, and just like any other world, we are all subject to obey the same laws, and even though it is just a game you can legally be charged and arrested. The use of a computor device to commit any act prohibited by law is a federal crime. All computors leave what is called a foot print, or a finger print ( to a person ) that can be traced right back to you, regardless of firewalls or proxies, your server must give them your IP,  address by law and that brings them right to your front door. They are collecting data that can be used in the future against you.

[Dizzy2013]

i have replied as asked by a frined as to not confuse, I have been coming and going from SL since it first began, many of you know me as keira, this post is not a post of disgrunt this is a post of the trend SL has benn taking and my view of what is happening as I see it day by day.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I don't get it.  Yes mainland prime areas such as around the Blake Sea is  expensive, and some time ridiculously so, but so is prime land in RL in resort areas.  Other mainland is extremely cheap, at 1L/m or less.  You can also find affordable prime land on the mainland if you look hard enough to buy or rent.  I rent a very nice parcel right on the Blake sea, which I rented for a second home because we love to sail.  The rent is a very reasonable amount, actually lower than what I would pay on many private estates with no sailing.  I have all the rights I would have if I actually "owned" it too. 

I've noticed those ridiculously priced parcels rarely sell at all.  I personally believe people do that just to get their rental land in another search category for free, not because they really want to sell it.

If you think you'd have a better chance of getting a prime parcel of mainland if there were price controls, you are out of your mind.  Available land would be snapped up immediately and not even show in search and your chance of getting any would be close to zero unless you knew someone that was selling or happened to be around when it was put up for sale.

You can also get some great land on private estates for only the first months tier and even prime land in a sailing estate with hundreds of sailing sims for a reasonable amount.

All that said, I think everyone would like to see lower land prices and lower tiers, but LL is a for profit company not a charity and I doubt that will happen soon.  You also don't have to have land in SL.  Many don't and enjoy SL as much as anyone.

You always have the option of going to another grid where land is extremely cheap or starting your own grid and putting your ideas into action.  But of course that probably isn't what you want to do as those other grids are sparsely populated, have little content and few things to do compared to SL.

 

 

[Dizzy2013]

I keep getting IM's regarding this post and I am sorry, I have talked to hundreds online in world that do not have property or houses because they cannot afford the astronomical prices being placed on desirable properties that are being hoarded up by real estaters and developers and resold for astronomical prices that many just cannot afford and that defeats the principals of what SL intended. For every person that does not remain or does not become VIP because they cannot afford desirable property and leave that is lost revenue, many would have the experience of being a property owner given the chance would stay and enjoy it, however they are not given the chance. The mainland should be dedicated to the players new and old to experince SL, if they want more property elsewhere that option is available to them, hoarding up all the desirable properties on the mainland puts a big limit and one being able to experience what SL is about, there is no sense in it when they have other places people can buy or build outside of the mainland, it only hurts those who wish to become a part of SL, and that amounts to lost revenue, at its current rate it wont last long all the property is disappearing to hoarders.

[Dizzy2013]

I actually have property in 3 other grids, and use them regularly, however I have a lot of friends in SL I I have always liked being a part of it but I would like everyone and anyone to be able to enjoy that too and the mainland should be dedicated to that principal, I never said one couldnt own property only that there should be a limit on the amount they can own on the mainland many have rediculous amounts of property they devide up and sell for rediculous prices and it keeps others from being able to buy desirable land, the only ones they dont want are gettos and yes you can get them cheap, but SL is not about segregation of classes it should be equal opportunity for all to enjoy, yes SL does get revenue however they also lose revenue from those that cant afford the crazy prices, SL did not start out that way and for many years did not have that effect, this is a condition brought on by RL much like a disease that eats you until you die.Your ideas of being out in nowhere is rediculous, it would be your home you can hangout on the mainland anytime TP style. Yes I tend to agree luxury in RL costs more, but this is a game not RL and you can do that anywhere in SL there is no reason for it on the mainland. If all you want is to be seen by others then stand in front of the linden house. Others of less financial status should be afforded the same oportunities, and the mainland should be the focus of that or it limits who can be a part of SL.

[Dizzy2013]

first of all I do not totally disagree with you, i think its getting out of hand and it hurts new members that cant afford what you speak of.

That being said in in consideration of your views then maybe the linden's should create a new sim with every sort of property available at fixed affordable prices to new members that cannot be sold or rented that they must live on and build their dream until they buy somehwere else or leave in that case that property is returned to SL inventory as available for that sim to the next new member that desires it and buys it.. that sim should only allow leased/rented businesses to operate on the lease/rent aspect, there should be no real estate market on that sim that would entirely eliminate all the foolishness and give all new member the opportunity to experience SL in the fullest and make a decision as to how they wish to proceed, or just stay there for ever if they choose, however they can not own property anywhere else and live on that sim which would eliminate another problem on the mainland. If they desire to do that they can relocate to a sim that allows it.

Either way I would like to see SL survive. I realize they offer a 512 houses to new members free, however that it silly its limited and they cant experience the full offerings of SL and what they can do and the prims in those houses barely furnish 1 room so  its too limited as well as being centralized in one area. Im talking about property they can buy at affordable prices to build and learn from and experience all SL has to offer free at wil. But cant be touched but mogols with get rich schemes and to heck with anyone else. Atleast they will have a chance, not everyone has the money many on here do, if you rent a beach house at say 2000-4000l a week, thats 80-160 RL bucks in L's they have to buy every month and a lot of people don't have that kind of money to to that, so there has to be some kind of exception to the rule for the masses where everybody has a chance to enjoy SL rich and poor, its a game for crying out loud not RL, many people do not join just to be seen, many wish to experience what the 3D life has to offer on the technological aspect of it, people cant see you anyway, what they see is a figment of your imaginaqtion so if some can only live  where they can be seen I'd be a little concerned about that, especially since realistically they cant see you anyway.

[Dizzy2013]

under that concept of a no market new VIP sim where new VIP's can purchase affordable property of their choosing they would have to pre agree that all property purchases are final and non refundablable upon departure and all things on the property will self destruct within 24 hours after departure so the property will be immeadialy availabe to the next new VIP desiring it, that will offset the differences in a market enviorment on a non market sim and Linden will still incur substancial revenue regularly.

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Dizzy2013 wrote:

...not everyone has the money many on here do, if you rent a beach house at say 2000-4000l a week, thats 80-160 RL bucks in L's they have to buy every month and a lot of people don't have that kind of money to to that, so there has to be some kind of exception to the rule for the masses where everybody has a chance to enjoy SL rich and poor, its a game for crying out loud not RL, many people do not join just to be seen, many wish to experience what the 3D life has to offer on the technological aspect of it, people cant see you anyway, what they see is a figment of your imaginaqtion so if some can only live  where they can be seen I'd be a little concerned about that, especially since realistically they cant see you anyway.

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I don't pay $2000L a week for my rental parcel.  I pay far less than that for a 4096sqm lot.  But $2000L a week is not $80US, its $8.09US if the exhcange is $247L to $1US.  A big difference.

SL itself is a luxury unless you don't spend a penny in it and that's possible to do with all the freebies there are.  The only thing you have to pay for in SL is land and land is not required to enjoy much of what SL offers.  There is also no reason why everyone should be entitled to a beach house on the mainland.  There is plenty of very affordable land that is waterfront on private estates and not everyone sails or is interested in water sports.  In fact the majority of people in sl that have land, have it on privates estates by choice, not because of mainland prices.

Most people spend $10US a week without blinking an eye on things they really don't need, like expensive coffee at the coffee shop, eating out at work rather than brown bagging, having a couple beers in a bar, buying a lottery ticket etc.  So its just a matter of priorities. The majority of people could afford a nice parcel somewhere if they rearrange their priorities a bit.  So I don't buy the fact that all those people you know can't 'afford' land.  They just choose to spend their money on something else.  I don't complain I can't eat out in RL every night because I choose to spend what I do on land in SL.

SL may be a just a 'game' to you and that's fine.  But that's an argument against people having a necessity of a nice beachfront mainland house.  Linden homes are sufficient IMO.  There is no need for more.

[Cincia Singh]

There's plenty of land on the mainland that people can buy from LL for a pittance. Yes, people would have to be Premium members but that's how the game is played and has been played for years. The cost of mainland has actually dropped significantly in recent years. The alternative is renting from an estate/private region owner in which case people don't have to be Premium members but I find the markup for rent usually comes close to the same as the cost of Premium membership. People who complain that LL should lower prices so that people could have more without paying for it always tickle me ... welcome to RL and SL where you get what you pay for.

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

But $2000L a week is

not

$80US, its $8.09US if the exhcange is $247L to $1US.  A big difference.

---

Exactly.

On top of that, between 2007 and 2011 prices dropped about 90%. I don't know what happened since, but I doubt prices are back at L$10+/sqm.

[Tari Landar]

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Dizzy2013 wrote:

I keep getting IM's regarding this post and I am sorry, I have talked to hundreds online in world that do not have property or houses because they cannot afford the astronomical prices being placed on desirable properties that are being hoarded up by real estaters and developers and resold for astronomical prices that many just cannot afford and that defeats the principals of what SL intended. For every person that does not remain or does not become VIP because they cannot afford desirable property and leave that is lost revenue, many would have the experience of being a property owner given the chance would stay and enjoy it, however they are not given the chance. The mainland should be dedicated to the players new and old to experince SL, if they want more property elsewhere that option is available to them, hoarding up all the desirable properties on the mainland puts a big limit and one being able to experience what SL is about, there is no sense in it when they have other places people can buy or build outside of the mainland, it only hurts those who wish to become a part of SL, and that amounts to lost revenue, at its current rate it wont last long all the property is disappearing to hoarders.

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I have rented(because no one in sl truly owns the "land") property in LL since shortly after first coming here, that was in 2004(the first time, I have rented property consistantly on this av since roughly 3 weeks after coming back to sl after a hiatus-so July 2008). I have not now, nor ever needed, a premium account to do so. I've also found countless places to rent, at reasonable rates. Some even make me scratch my head wondering how they make a profit, or even come close to breaking even(and I'm not talking about folks who get the discount rates for owning a certain number of sims, either). Those who choose unreasonable(to me, and me alone, I only speak for myself) rates, aren't people I choose to look to. It really is that simple. Most people are more reasonable, from my experience.

For every person who says "I can't afford sl, because the land prices are too expensive" there is at least one(probably more) who can *despite the prices. I am talking of people from all walks of life. I can include myself when I say I'm talking about people with no disposable rl income(and therefore, unable to bring it into sl). Everything I have, and everything I can do, within sl, is because of profits I've made here. Anyone can make money in sl. It's not always easy, but ANYONE can do it. You may not even need a lot of talent to do it, depending on your chosen method(s). There are countless ways you can. You do NOT need a disposable income of any sort in rl to make money, or even enjoy sl. Sure, it's nice, and plenty of folks do have a few dollars, or more, every month to spend in sl. I'm not one of them. So I can sympathize with not having the rl money to do all the sorts of things others in sl can do-and that includes folks who own land and then choose to rent it out to folks like me. I can't afford to have my own sim that I rent from ll(again, because no one actually owns it, including land barons). I just honestly don't have that kind of cash. But nothing, and I do mean nothing, is stopping me from renting from others. I may be late to the party on the newest fun stuff, but if I want it, I'll get there eventually.

I'm simply a mom in rl. I homeschool my kids. I'm currently attending school myself. We've got a stack of medical bills that would make anyone lose their lunch. I have a few odds and ends jobs I do here in rl to cover rl expenses. Extras, fun things, unnecessary expenses-yeah those are all things we can't do. We have more money going out than I have coming in, some months. I'm only saying this, not to say "pity me I'm poor"(that would be horrible) but to say that ANYONE can enjoy sl, regardless of their financial state in rl. Even people without their own internet connection can find ways to enjoy sl. And boy do they, I've run into lots of folks doing just that over the years. I, frankly, don't even NEED to rent land, to enjoy sl. As a creator, I can build in any sandbox I choose. If I want to go enjoy a venue, I can do that. If my hubby and I want to enjoy some time together in sl, there are plenty of places we can do that. We don't need to rent land. I know lots of people believe they do, and lots more would like to own land. but the reality is, none of us "needs" it. Yeah it would be nice. Lots of things in life would be nice. I wish I could do all kinds of things in games(I'm not debating whether or not sl is a game, ftr, lol, that's a whole different argument) that I just can't do. I wish I could afford a lot of things. But, put crap in one hand, and wishes in another-and see which one fills up first(my dad taught me that, thanks dad).

No one in sl is guaranteed a good time. No one is owed anything. Ideally, we'd all love it if everyone enjoyed every minute of their sl adventure. Ideally we'd all love it if everyone could afford to do whatever they wanted to do(sl, or not). But reality is not ideal, never has been, and never will be. Whether you(general you) see sl as a game or not. It's never going to be anymore ideal than rl.

I'd love to own acreage in rl too, but I can't afford that either. There are just some things you learn to accept-even when you don't like them. I accept what I can't change. I change what I can, when I can.. I still enjoy rl, in fact I love my rl. I feel the same about sl. I am not "owed" anything, by anyone. My sl is mine and only mine, to make whatever I want it to be. Finances be damned, I've had a great run, and I plan to continue doing so until the day I no longer can. If I can't afford something I want, well, I have two choices. I can either forget about it, or I can work until I can afford it. Which one I pick depends on what it is I want.

I'm not saying anything you have said is 'wrong" or you are wrong, or people have no reason to be upset that they cannot afford something. I'm just trying to offer my perspective on things and why I believe that the only true thing holding most people back from enjoying sl(in whatever way they choose) is their own self. I COULD do the same. I just choose not to. Even if others have all the fancy gadgets, toys, tons of land, lots of nifty fun stuff(and not to mention talent, woo-wee I wish I had their talent)...my sl is still peachy keen. Even when I'm not so fond of the lab-cuz that happens too. I won't begrudge a land owner-baron or not-their desire(and ability) to own land. I don't see much point in that. If they want to charge unreasonable rates, let them. There are ALWAYS options out there. It's not as if their prices are the only game in town, they are surely not. It's just a matter of going out and looking-which, yes, at times, can be painstaking.

There is TONS of land out there-including mainland(which to be honest, the majority of, is empty-imo from the last look at the world map anyway). TONS of places one could call home, if one wants to have a home. Being a premium member is not needed for that. Heck there are even places that only charge $25l a week for a little skybox rental. That's not too shabby if you ask me. Sure, it's not a palace, but it can still be a home. I know lots who live in them, and they love them. There are lots of places, that will fit lots of budgets. They're not all gone, I can promise that much, not even mostly. Now if you want to "own" land-as in paying your rent(tier) to LL only, you have a few more limitations and different cost than you'd have renting from another resident. But if you've the money to rent directly from LL , you're likely already better off financially speaking(rl or sl) than a great deal of residents. Most people in sl rent from other residents-even people with full sims, and such. Not nearly as many rent land directly from ll. That alone should tell you, there are a lot more of us folks with little to no disposable rl income, than there are otherwise.

Lower land costs in general would be nice, they'd be nice in rl too. Neither is going to happen, though. Regardless of the price of land, someone is going to be disappointed. Someone is always going to be angry. Someone is always going to think it's unfair. Someone is always going to believe everyone should have what everyone else has and that's just how it needs to be. Those someones are more than welcome to feel however they want to feel, of course, but that doesn't nececessarily make them right...or even wrong. It's all a matter of personal opinion, and perspective.

[Darien Caldwell]

This is a silly thread.

 

A) you don't have to have land to enjoy SL.

B) if you want land and are on a budget, get a premium membership. For 72 bucks a year you get 512m plot. If you need more, a Full sim on the mainland can be found for 100-300 bucks. (which is way cheaper than the 1200 bucks they used to go for).

Land is actually cheaper than it's ever been in SL history.

[MBeatrix]

Silly thread indeed.

The annual premium membership costs 6 bucks/month. Those who can't spend $6 monthly in SL should find something else to do with their free time — some profitable activity, maybe...?

[Tari Landar]

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MBeatrix wrote:

Silly thread indeed.

The annual premium membership costs 6 bucks/month. Those who can't spend $6 monthly in SL should find something else to do with their free time — some profitable activity, maybe...?

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That is one of the dumbest responses I believe I have seen to someone debating the costs of sl(even though it's not the first time it's been said). Although you're entitled to your opinion of course, I am entitled to believe it's hogwash, and makes absolutely no sense.

No one needs to have a premium membership at all to enjoy sl. In fact, most people *do not* have one. Many people enjoy sl, for years even, without ever spending a rl cent. Sometimes it's because they can't, sometimes they just don't want to. I don't believe they should go find something else to do with their free time.

[MBeatrix]

Of course you too are entitled to your dumb opinion, just like everyone else. Actually, the whole thread is dumb, starting with someone whining about SL personal costs. But I can tell you this: in my dumb preception of it all, I believe that on the day Linden Lab stops making enough money to pay the salaries and the external services required to keep Second Life running and improving, they will terminate it.

It is true no one needs a premium account to enjoy SL, but my point was showing how ridiculously low cost is having a Linden Home plus all the other benefits a premium membership can offer. As dumb as I am, I see some advantages in having a premium membership — and that's why I subscribed it, of course.

 

P.S. — When someone is getting something for free, it's because someone else is paying it. I'm one of those who pay it — yes, I'm that dumb.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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MBeatrix wrote:

Of course you too are entitled to your dumb opinion, just like everyone else. Actually, the whole thread is dumb, starting with someone whining about SL personal costs. But I can tell you this: in my dumb preception of it all, I believe that on the day Linden Lab stops making enough money to pay the salaries and the external services required to keep Second Life running and improving, they will terminate it.

It is true no one needs a premium account to enjoy SL, but my point was showing how ridiculously low cost is having a Linden Home plus all the other benefits a premium membership can offer. As dumb as I am, I see some advantages in having a premium membership — and that's why I subscribed it, of course.

 

P.S. — When someone is getting something for free, it's because someone else is paying it. I'm one of those who pay it — yes, I'm that dumb.

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I have never had a premium membership in the many years I've been in SL.  However, I have owned multi sim estates (you don't need to be premium to own a private estate), paid tons of upload fees, cash out fees, MP commissions, classifieds,  etc. etc. etc.....  If I added up everything I've paid directly to LL over the years it would be in the thousands in terms of RL money.  I am not alone either, there are tons of people like me.

 Even the micro payments made by most residents and LL's cut of it add up to a substantial amount.  The amount of money that changes hands resident to resident each year is in the multi millions.  Even the small fees charged for L's to fund that would be profitable.   If free accounts were a drain on LL's profits they wouldn't exist.

You shouldn't assume because someone is not a premium member that their SL is being subsidized by your premium membership fee, or that they are not providing LL with ample profits. Actually if you add up the overhead of providing premium benefits, paying the staff and equipment to provide the premium services and the cost of all the servers they use to provide free Linden Homes

 

[MBeatrix]

All that is true, and I know it. Also, I'm aware that the money LL gets from premium memberships is a small part of their income and could never cover the overall costs by itself.

More: during my first year in SL I had a basic account and nevertheless had 6 times more land than I have now. So I'm not assuming what you say I am — at all.

But you too seem to miss the point, so I shall write no more here.

[Nalates Urriah]

I’m not sure if you confused or trolling…

Let’s take the first paragraph of you OP.

“… what once was a thriving development…” it is true that things were more positive growth-wise in 2007. I’ll give you that.

But, the reason for the down turn is not necessarily land barons. I think that is a an unrealistic idea I doubt you have any proof to base it on, other than opinion.

 “ …real world "Greed", Real Estate Developers and Land Barons are making it impossible for the average person…” Land in SL does not work like RL land. The Lab can create or destroy land at will. Thus the supply of land in SL varies. We have lots of available SL land that people can buy/lease. Anyone can lease land from the Lab and the Lab can create it by clicking a mouse. It is a hard feat to create land in RL. Thus the ‘supply-demand’ interactions are fundamentally different in SL.

Anyone can have land for the same price for which any land baron can purchase it. If the barons can make money from the land, so can you or anyone.

So, saying ‘impossible’ is unrealistic hype. It sounds like an effort to create victims.

“Not everybody has the financial ability to be king of the hill…” True. But, they do have the opportunity to acquire that financial ability. Bill Gates was not born rich nor was Steve Jobs or any huge numbers of others. They had opportunity. In SL we all have the same opportunity to purchase land and make money.

 “…many persons have limited budgets, fixed incomes, or just do not have access or means to compete with developers or barons.” If you think one must have financial resources to compete with the ‘already successful’ you are missing the point. It is the victim theology of socialists that says one has to take from another to get ahead. All of history proves that free people with opportunity improve their circumstances. They don’t do it by taking from others. They do it by creating worth/value/goods. Farmers grow it. Manufactures, artists, carpenters, make it. Tailors, cleaners, plumbers, and others provide services.

Now that the Lab has removed the need for Magic Boxes, merchants do not need land. They can use the Market Place. One can start with free GIMP to make basic system clothes and sell them. Later they can move on to Blender, another free program, to make Fitted Mesh clothes. There is no need to spend money to start making money from SL. With enough EARNED money one can buy land.

In America most businesses are run by entrepreneurs.  According to the SBA:

• Small business is 99% of all businesses in America. 52% of those are home based.
• 64% of new private sector jobs come from small businesses.
• 49% of all employed work at small businesses.
• 98% of all exports are made by small businesses.

A small business is one with less than 500 employees. Of new businesses started about a million (2011) were started by people that were unemployed the year before.

“In all fairness this just being just a online game, all people that have or wish to join second life should be able to have the ability to experience it and be a part of it in every aspect.”

Who told you the world and life were fair? Use of the word ‘fair’ is a major political tactic of the Marxist movements. I think it shows a disconnect from reality. The oldest philosophers realized that freedom gave opportunity and opportunity allowed people to lift their selves out of poverty. Equal opportunity is important. Don't confuse equal oppertunity with fairness.

Is having to work fair? Is having to spend effort breathing fair? Is having to grow food fair? Those things are necessary because that is how the world works. People argue and divide over what is fair. That is why radicals seeking to over throw established systems use it to divide people. What is fair is an endless argument based solely in personal opinions thus different for everyone and impossible to prove.

Where does the idea of SHOULD come from? It is personal opinion. It is an ideologues idea of how they think things should be.  It has nothing to do with reality. It seems you would like for someone to give everything to everyone. That just is not possible.

You seem to confuse the word ‘ability’ with financial resources and/or the cost of things. It is not financial ability or cost that matters. Having the opportunity to change ones financial status is the only thing we need beyond our personal abilities to succeed: freedom. To think otherwise is giving power to the idea of being a victim.

Watch the movie the Great Debators.

That people SHOULD be able to participate in every aspect of SL presupposes they can’t. That is a false premise. I can participate any aspect of SL. There is nothing that stops me other than time. I don’t have time to participate in EVERY aspect. Is it fair we are limited by time?

To participate only takes an exercise of my will, my personal choice, and the freedom to act on it.

Your case for what is going on in SL and how you think things should be is based on false premises and eronious bases.

 

[Cincia Singh]

You nailed it!  :matte-motes-big-grin:

[Yueviathan]

SL may feel real  but its still a game thats played by gamers, or people wanting a escape from RL.What SL is doing is bad for the game it is and for the majority of people who join it.Compared to other games similar to it and are better quality both game play wise and graphics.SL is over charging its user(or rather other users are). Nothing on SL should be 200 anything.Games like The Sims,GTA,Minecraft,and various MMorpg. Make SL pricing look over charged.Hell the site imvu is far more available then this site is and its the same type of site. (although I left imvu because the community sucks and I can do more on here well...The stuff I can afford to do anyway..)Theres no excuse,its a over priced for its content and well outdated in many ways. This isn't real,and games aren't successful on milking profits or letting customers milk other customers dry.

A game needs to be enjoyable for all,because thats what keeps a game popular and keeps users active,thats what a game does,thier fun hobbies.A hobby that feels like work isnt fun and you stop doing the hobby because of this.A hobby thats hard to access is a bad hobby and becomes enjoyed by a selected few that  can not fund it over time.If we are going to talk business then lets be hoenst here. For a mostly outdated game it charges more then games that are on console and PC this generation and how old is SL now? If The Sims pulled any of the same tactics SL does with land and teir?Do you think that game would be as successful as it is now and always has been? If GTA did the same would it have the same success?What about minecraft?These games have made more money or are more popular and are avaialble to more people for less then what SL (And SL users)charge the users in these games.Maybe SL should do the same?

Everytime I see ban lines,empty or one person sims,rentals everywhere,and beatiful public sims closeing down because of cost? ( I watched 15 sims I love to visit die because of this reason)All it does is kill my reasons to enjoy the site,and reasons to log on( I have great friends and I'm creative so I enjoy messing with my avatar and frankly many days thats the only reason I log on at all). Hanging with friends only go so far when you run out of places to hang with them in. Exploring only goes so far when everything is rentals,ban lines,security orbs, and property you can't afford not to mention bad sim crossings. SL is over priced for what it offers as there are sites and games that offer the same thing for free and are doing better then this site is.

I understand alot of people are trying to or indeed do make a lot of money off this site.(And don't get me wrong I am thankful for the many people who make content but lets be honest here) I'm sorry but they should ask to work for linden or do it for hobby reasons only.People are making money off of MODing the game they did not create and selling the MODs. People are making money off of buying a piece of the game they did not create and selling it back to other consumers for twice as much.That is basicly in a nutshell what people are justifying and seems especially so in your comment because that in a nutshell is what this is,and well everyone should try thinking this?

Next time you go to play any PC/console  game that allows you to own land and mod but doesn't charge you more then once or at all?Think about that game and think if you would play it if it did?Would it be fun or would you quit if it did?

 

(Also I am aware some of the games I mention do require a charge for these features,but the difference is its a ONE time charge.Especially with sims,I still have sims two and all my expasion packs and mods. I don't have to keep paying anything so as long as I have disc /download  content avaialble that I bought when I bought the game. I have if for life.Considering the amount of content SL has?

I honestly think SL having a download for the main game and your avatar and a sim to call your own for good would give long time users that have spend 4 figures and up a needed sense of security.Would be nice to know all that I spent on my avi and all that I own I can have as a down load for good. Just food for thought because most games do that,and its part of why people buy them and keep playing them.Its important for a customer to own what they  purchase. )

[Perrie Juran]

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Yueviathan wrote:

SL may feel real  but its still a game thats played by gamers, or people wanting a escape from RL.

<snip>

 

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You left out an important category here:

People who see SL as an addition to their Real Lives.

Yes, I have a Real Life and no, I don't come here just to escape it.