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PeterGray @ LL Responds to UCCSL RE: LL TOS Concerns

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*not a reply to anyone in particular.

Maybe everyone should do their homework on where indie game developers get their content.  I am not saying all of them,  I am however saying many don't buy content at all.   "indie games content piracy" there is your google reference. It's not a secret for goodness sake.  Many feel they give away their content,  so they should just "get" their content.   Just a realistic thought here.

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Here's my question, I have submited most of my oiginal mesh creations to the United States Library of Congess. I have done this every month for the past 2 years. It's NOT CHEAP. But, I feel it is worth it. Now, when you do this it's like a second level of protection for your creation. So, how on EARTH Linden Lab can think that they OWN rights to MY art is beyond me. Would they be prepared to go to court againt me and the USLOC? Who would win? Also, another question is, if LL thinks they own our shi* then how are "we" able to file a DMCA against people misusing our stuff if our stuff is "owned by LL"? None of this shi* makes any sense to me, personally I feel like Linden Lab has done everything they possibly can to fu*k over creators and make more profits for themselves. 

As for this Peter Gray letter..... WHAT?! .... If I wanted to sell my shi* on another plateform "I" would, why does that call for this tos change? That has nothing to do with it... I sell alot of my sl items on Turbosquid and plan on selling items on renderosity soon aswell not to mention some of my SL creations may be used by Gamersfirst soon aswell. But, since LL owns my shi* would that then give them the right to file against me? .... 

Im usually one of the creators with the biggest mouth and I havent chimed in on this issue just because SL is my rl job and there's not a damn thing I can do to change that right now. So, I've kept my head in the sand about most of this but now sitting here really reading this tos.... I'm like WOW... My husband is a business major and he read it with me and is basically saying that I need to leave sl and do something else if I care anything about my creations... o.O He also says it sounds like LL is preparing for a big hell storm but LL wouldnt close SL it makes too much money right?  PHILIP ROSEDALE WHY DID U LEAVE ME!!!! :< We need Phil back, he was a coniving little **bleep** at times but I just don't see him doing this to the creators of SL..... :(

Sorry if any of this sounds stupid or whatever cause I REALLY am confused here :/ Also, now, if you transfer out your lindens up to $20,000 LL will send you a W9? ummm when did they tell us about this!? THEY DIDNT. A big name mesh creator brought this to our attention yesterday and im just so confused... LL what are you doing!? Cause I really feel you are planning for a bigggggggg fu*k us over fest.... :(

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I think your point about DMCA filings is interesting. You still own the copyright, but (I understand) you have given LL the new broad license, which explicitly includes the right to sublicense. Now if you file a DMCA notice against someone who has copybotted your stuff, could LL simply decide to sublicense the stolen content to the theif, thereby relieving themselves of the need to take down the content? Of course they don't have to, but it would appear that they have given themselves the means of ignoring DMCAs from anyone who has agreed to the ToS, although they would still have to act on filings from others. I don't know. I am only guessing because I am not a lawyer.

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Lexi Zelin wrote:

Sorry if any of this sounds stupid or whatever cause I REALLY am confused here
:/
Also, now, if you transfer out your lindens up to $20,000 LL will send you a W9? ummm when did they tell us about this!? THEY DIDNT. A big name mesh creator brought this to our attention yesterday and im just so confused... LL what are you doing!? Cause I really feel you are planning for a bigggggggg fu*k us over fest....
:(

Hmmm, this implies to me that LL has some insider knowledge of moves the fed government is going to take. This also makes me wonder if the new TOS has something to do with this. I seriously wish LL would just say what the heck is up. That new free trade agreement is being hashed out right now, and there is much talk of a complete redo of IP. Of course, this all circumvents the laws of each nation involved, but why would politicians care about that. To them, it's all good.

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I think it's the consequence of what is going on for a while now.

The IRS was after Bitcoin (and comparable virtual currencies) because they see an increasing use of virtual currency for tax evasion and laundring money. 

Because of that Linden Lab had to register with the FinCen as a money service business, and share similar regulatory as other financial institutions.

That is also the reason third parties are no longer allowed to buy Linden dollars from residents. All cashing out must go via Linden Lab, so all information about cash outs is available at one compagny. I'm not sure what the regulations are exactly, I'm not from USA, but I guess IRS can just ask for the records. LL is probably obligated to point out it's residents about the USA tax regulations.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:


Lexi Zelin wrote:

Sorry if any of this sounds stupid or whatever cause I REALLY am confused here
:/
Also, now, if you transfer out your lindens up to $20,000 LL will send you a W9? ummm when did they tell us about this!? THEY DIDNT. A big name mesh creator brought this to our attention yesterday and im just so confused... LL what are you doing!? Cause I really feel you are planning for a bigggggggg fu*k us over fest....
:(

Hmmm, this implies to me that LL has some insider knowledge of moves the fed government is going to take. This also makes me wonder if the new TOS has something to do with this. I seriously wish LL would just say what the heck is up. That new free trade agreement is being hashed out right now, and there is much talk of a complete redo of IP. Of course, this all circumvents the laws of each nation involved, but why would politicians care about that. To them, it's all good.

One day maybe in our wildest dreams Linden Lab may learn the value of transparency in customer relations and how far it could go in growing SL.  They also need to learn the value of being proactive and communicating BEFORE the fact and not AFTER.

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Commerce/Required-Tax-Documentation/ba-p/2336109

Why this is coming up now and hadn't in the past is anyones guess.  It could have been prompted by a simple request by the IRS and LL had a WTF, uh oh, we better get in compliance moment.  Or it could have been that one of their Attorneys needing some more billable hours was doing some reading and realized LL had been neglecting this.

But yes, it sure does appear to be the Law that they are required to do this.

 

 

 

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Lexi Zelin wrote:

Here's my question, I have submitted most of my oiginal mesh creations to the United States Library of Congess. I have done this every month for the past 2 years. It's NOT CHEAP. But, I feel it is worth it. Now, when you do this it's like a second level of protection for your creation. So, how on EARTH Linden Lab can think that they OWN rights to MY art is beyond me. Would they be prepared to go to court against me and the USLOC? Who would win? Also, another question is, if LL thinks they own our shi* then how are "we" able to file a DMCA against people misusing our stuff if our stuff is "owned by LL"? None of this shi* makes any sense to me, personally I feel like Linden Lab has done everything they possibly can to fu*k over creators and make more profits for themselves. 

As for this Peter Gray letter..... WHAT?! .... If I wanted to sell my shi* on another platform "I" would, why does that call for this tos change? That has nothing to do with it... I sell alot of my sl items on Turbosquid and plan on selling items on renderosity soon aswell not to mention some of my SL creations may be used by Gamersfirst soon aswell. But, since LL owns my shi* would that then give them the right to file against me? .... 

Im usually one of the creators with the biggest mouth and I haven't chimed in on this issue just because SL is my rl job and there's not a damn thing I can do to change that right now. So, I've kept my head in the sand about most of this but now sitting here really reading this tos.... I'm like WOW... My husband is a business major and he read it with me and is basically saying that I need to leave sl and do something else if I care anything about my creations...
o.O
He also says it sounds like LL is preparing for a big hell storm but LL wouldn't close SL it makes too much money right?  PHILIP ROSEDALE WHY DID U LEAVE ME!!!! :< We need Phil back, he was a coniving little **bleep** at times but I just don't see him doing this to the creators of SL.....
:(

Sorry if any of this sounds stupid or whatever cause I REALLY am confused here
:/
Also, now, if you transfer out your lindens up to $20,000 LL will send you a W9? ummm when did they tell us about this!? THEY DIDN'T. A big name mesh creator brought this to our attention yesterday and im just so confused... LL what are you doing!? Cause I really feel you are planning for a bigggggggg fu*k us over fest....
:(

When people mess with your livelihood, and don't express they feel the need to explain themselves, it conveys a PROFOUND feeling of DISRESPECT. I thought an established brand like yours would contribute to the community here, and often wondered if you would express your opinion one day. Lots of people feel that way, how can they not. People make a living at the SL Market Place and LL is making everyone feel like they are pulling their magic rug, out from under their feet mid flight. I don't have a business here but I was working on a mesh product for 2 months and just as I was gonna rig it, and upload it, the TOS shyeit bag hit the fan and I have been PISSED ever since. :smileysad: I hope other people are motivated to voice their opinion cause this affects everyone.

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Madeliefste Oh wrote:

I think it's the consequence of what is going on for a while now.

The IRS was after Bitcoin (and comparable virtual currencies) because they see an increasing use of virtual currency for tax evasion and laundring money. 


There were just a hearing in the senate about a week ago. Because of the conclusions from the hearing, I will be setting up a Bitcoin option on my website, so that my customers can pay me with it. I'm not an advocate of buying Bitcoins, but if you can acquire them through sales, why not. It's as good a currency as any, and if I want to sell them for dollars, it's no big deal. I'll likely hold some tho, just to always be in the market. Here a video of my favorite philosopher talking about it.

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Medhue Simoni wrote:


Lexi Zelin wrote:

Sorry if any of this sounds stupid or whatever cause I REALLY am confused here
:/
Also, now, if you transfer out your lindens up to $20,000 LL will send you a W9? ummm when did they tell us about this!? THEY DIDNT. A big name mesh creator brought this to our attention yesterday and im just so confused... LL what are you doing!? Cause I really feel you are planning for a bigggggggg fu*k us over fest....
:(

Hmmm, this implies to me that LL has some insider knowledge of moves the fed government is going to take. This also makes me wonder if the new TOS has something to do with this. I seriously wish LL would just say what the heck is up. That new free trade agreement is being hashed out right now, and there is much talk of a complete redo of IP. Of course, this all circumvents the laws of each nation involved, but why would politicians care about that. To them, it's all good.

One day maybe in our wildest dreams Linden Lab may learn the value of transparency in customer relations and how far it could go in growing SL.  They also need to learn the value of being proactive and communicating BEFORE the fact and not AFTER.

Why this is coming up now and hadn't in the past is anyones guess.  It could have been prompted by a simple request by the IRS and LL had a WTF, uh oh, we better get in compliance moment.  Or it could have been that one of their Attorneys needing some more billable hours was doing some reading and realized LL had been neglecting this.

But yes, it sure does appear to be the Law that they are required to do this.

 

 

 

What is crazy is that it looks like a situation where it is the state and LL vs us, which is seriously screwed up. It should really be the state vs LL and us. Corporations are so tied to the state now, that they are afraid to even inform their patrons ahead of time. If LL was truly on our side, and half way intellegent, they would have been setting up a Linden to Bitcoin exchange a long time ago. In theory, we could cash out to Bitcoin, and have no tax liability until we cashed those Bitcoins out for dollars. In essence, we'd be preserving our wealth until we needed it, and possibly making a profit on that too, a big profit possibly.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:


Medhue Simoni wrote:


Lexi Zelin wrote:

Sorry if any of this sounds stupid or whatever cause I REALLY am confused here
:/
Also, now, if you transfer out your lindens up to $20,000 LL will send you a W9? ummm when did they tell us about this!? THEY DIDNT. A big name mesh creator brought this to our attention yesterday and im just so confused... LL what are you doing!? Cause I really feel you are planning for a bigggggggg fu*k us over fest....
:(

Hmmm, this implies to me that LL has some insider knowledge of moves the fed government is going to take. This also makes me wonder if the new TOS has something to do with this. I seriously wish LL would just say what the heck is up. That new free trade agreement is being hashed out right now, and there is much talk of a complete redo of IP. Of course, this all circumvents the laws of each nation involved, but why would politicians care about that. To them, it's all good.

One day maybe in our wildest dreams Linden Lab may learn the value of transparency in customer relations and how far it could go in growing SL.  They also need to learn the value of being proactive and communicating BEFORE the fact and not AFTER.

Why this is coming up now and hadn't in the past is anyones guess.  It could have been prompted by a simple request by the IRS and LL had a WTF, uh oh, we better get in compliance moment.  Or it could have been that one of their Attorneys needing some more billable hours was doing some reading and realized LL had been neglecting this.

But yes, it sure does appear to be the Law that they are required to do this.

 

 

 

What is crazy is that it looks like a situation where it is the state and LL vs us, which is seriously screwed up. It should really be the state vs LL and us. Corporations are so tied to the state now, that they are afraid to even inform their patrons ahead of time. If LL was truly on our side, and half way intellegent, they would have been setting up a Linden to Bitcoin exchange a long time ago. In theory, we could cash out to Bitcoin, and have no tax liability until we cashed those Bitcoins out for dollars. In essence, we'd be preserving our wealth until we needed it, and possibly making a profit on that too, a big profit possibly.

There are rules that deal with cashing out one investment in order to purchase another without incurring tax liabilities but you'd really need to talk to an accountant on how that works. 

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